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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
We still need a spoken word version of this article and its respective articles to replace the out of date (and artifical) version currently uploaded. - Dynamo_ace Talk 4th January 2006
With Cool Cat disappearing, we need someone else to so the spoken word version of this group of articles. Anyone up for it? - Dynamo_ace Talk
OK, Cool cat is not dissapering but we still need a spoken word version here. Anyone up for it?
Elsewhere, this article is now 30kb, i.e it is overloaded. If you plan to reorginaze the article, now would be the time.- Dynamo_ace Talk
I perhaps over archived but I really feel all that discussion was dead/concluded. -- Cool Cat Talk| @ 12:19, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
I know Oh My Goddess! inspired anime/manga significantly. Anything around over a decade has to influence the industry. This article should mention this. Plot and other such details are avalible in sub articles. After all that was the FAC criteria we failed to meet. -- Cool Cat Talk| @ 13:31, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
As stated on WP:EL: On articles about topics with many fansites, including a link to one major fansite is appropriate, marking the link as such. It's not appropriate to link eight fan sites from this article. It is even less appropriate to link the same eight fan sites from all seventy-two articles which have anything to do with the topic. If there's a specific web page which gives more information about Skuld, for example, then link to it from Skuld's article; but do not link from Skuld's article to the home pages of eight Ah My Goddess fan sites. - Brian Kendig 20:47, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
If you wish to link to a specific web page which is the source for information you've put into an article, the link to that page goes into the article's Sources section. If there is one widely-recognized predominant fan site which is authoritative on a subject, then link to it from the subject's main article. Otherwise, do not try to use Wikipedia to do the job that web directories and search engines already do so much better. And using a template to put the same exact site links into every article about a topic, that's still very wrong: first of all, you should link to a specific page dependent on each article, not to the top level of the fan site every time; second of all, if the fan sites are so ephemeral that you think you need to edit seventy-two different articles often enough to require a template, then these definitely aren't the kinds of fan sites that should be linked from Wikipedia. - Brian Kendig 22:34, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
This conversation seems to have spread across this talk page, your talk page, and my talk page. As it's a general-interest issue and not only between you and me, I'm going to remove it from my talk page and consolidate it here. What I would like to see is:
I would like to help with the AMG articles; in fact, I was thinking about watching the series and contributing to each article as I went along. And I think you've done a terrific job with them - they're full of a great deal of information! (In part, that's the problem - you've made it so there's really no need to link to other sites; the information is already here in the WP articles!) However, I still do not believe that an external links template is appropriate in this situation. - Brian Kendig 02:53, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
In my opion, the list is baised as there is no sites that are covering the TV series. Only the manga and OVA are being covered. Hardly fair. I suggest we adjust the templates to cover sites relating to all the versions. - Dynamo_ace Talk
You falsely accuse me of insulting you. I did criticise your surprising ineptness at constructing and following a logical argument based upon policy ( WP:EL does not back up your thesis), but I did so in a civil tone, not in an slanderous onslaught. Lest you continue to be in any doubt about this serious failing of yours, given your decision to involve yourself in policy discussions, I'll elaborate here.
Not at all. I merely give an analysis of the comment "in fact, I was thinking about watching the series and contributing to each article as I went along", which gives the impression your knowledge in the series is lacking. If it isn't, I apologize, but the statement certainly imposes the idea that you claim not to convey.
Absolutely not. Look at the proceeding conversation and the comments on the template talkpage. We've already established that everyone agrees with you , and I've already scrapped the idea of using the template for that purpose. No one has yet to even argue you on that basis, and you continue to bring this aspect up. There are many more creative ways for us to utilize this template.
In that case, then you have even less grounds to claim that you are supporting your stand on the subject. Please point out to me where, specifically the policy says this.
This is very hard to believe. Are you claiming that the comments I left on your talkpage, Cool Cat's talkpage and the template talkpage don't exist? In all of these posts I clearly summerized to you that I agreed with that point.
My last go. The insertion of the oringinal template clearly sat well with other people, and you seem to be the only one opposing its exsistance. This one sticks to the bare bones of policy. Add the fact that your userpage states as such. Fairly obvious stuff I should have thought.
I doubt that's really necessary. It's boiling down to your failure to construct a logical argument, supported by correct factual observations, to support your thesis. Please allow more people interested in this subject to comment before we take such an course of action.- Zero Talk 14:18, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
{The below is an previous and ongoing discussion copied from the template's talkpage)
In hopes for an agreement, I'd like to see if I can reach an agreement on this matter. The tempalte does have its usage, however, it might not be sensible for simply an calloboration of external links. I've changed the header to Sources and references, which is correct. Henceforth, the template can be utilzed as an link portal for references. Proceeding the template, I can place specific links to an fan website (or two) pointing to the subject in question- hence an external links section. I'm still specualting on the workability of this, and other's idea's and suggestions would be appreciated. - Zero Talk 09:51, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Linking from an article to individual pages which specifically provide more information about the article's topic, like for example linking from the Skuld article to a page with details about Skuld: that's good and appropriate. This can go into an External Links section; at some future time when the information in the fan page is pulled into the Wikipedia article, then it can be cited in a Sources section. Which links do you still intend to have the same in every article (by use of a template), though? - Brian Kendig 15:16, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
I think we misunderstand each other. I thought you were saying that you would use static links in the template (as had previously been done before I raised the issue) so that every article would have the same exact set of links to the same exact pages in it. That's what I don't feel is appropriate, neither for Sources nor for External Links - because these links, being the same in every article, would not be specific to the articles they're in. If on the other hand you're saying you'll make a template similar to the IMDB template - one to which you can pass parameters from each article, so that the template will create a link that's specific for the page it's on - then that's a really good idea. - Brian Kendig 15:45, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
I see you've been working on it - it's changed when I've looked at the article a couple of times today, but right now I don't see any article-specific links in it. When you've gotten it to a point that's ready to talk about, please let me know here, and we can discuss it. (Not on your talk page - this is an article issue, not a user issue, and I want it to remain visible.) - Brian Kendig 22:59, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
I just now looked over the work you did on the template. I don't think that gateway.cjb.net would work very well for a template; only a few characters there have pages of their own, and the URLs don't seem to have a consistent format to them - it would be easier to link them directly from articles, without using a template. On the other hand, www.noblescarlet.net does appear to be structured better and a template would be easier to use for that, so perhaps you could create a new template, maybe named "AMG character" or "NobleScarlet.net" or something similar? I think the template would be coded like this:
[http://www.noblescarlet.net/lexicon/{{{1|{{{name}}}}}}.php ''{{{2|{{{title|{{PAGENAME}}}}}}}}''] at NobleScarlet.net]
And called like this from an individual page: {{AMG character|name=Belldandy}}
or: {{AMG character|name=Skuld|title=Skuld}} (when the page name differs from the character name)
Let me know what you think. - Brian Kendig 20:49, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Continuing the discussion from
Template talk:Oh My Goddess Extlnk (thank you for copying it here!), let's discuss what our goals are and then we can find ways to accomplish them. First let me make sure we're still on the same page:
My goal is still to move away from simply listing fansites to providing links to targeted information that's beyond what Wikipedia contains at present. Someday, editors may copy the information from those fansite pages into the WP articles and drop the links; but for now, links to individual pages are okay, and I'll help you put them in. - Brian Kendig 21:17, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Cool. Would you like to start by coming up with a list of URLs of pages on the fan sites which contain substantially more information than the WP articles contain - the pages which should be linked from their respective articles? If you'd like to go through and find the pages to use and list their URLs here (also listing which article each one is for unless it's clear from the URL), I'll try to come up with a template for them - and if I can't, then I'll start putting them into the articles directly. At the same time as I do this, I'll be removing the old template with the static links from each article - actually, on second thought, I'll start with one article, then show it to you and make sure we both agree on it. Sound okay? -
Brian Kendig
21:31, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
You misunderstand me. You've only specified two links, and neither of them are to a character/episode/location page. :) I'd like you to go through those two sites and list the URLs you feel should be linked from Wikipedia, the pages which contain more info than what's here already. Based on the number of URLs you give me, and how they're formatted, we can figure out whether or not a variable template is feasible. - Brian Kendig 21:56, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Bringing here a discussion between myself and Cool Cat: Cat, we do not want to link from every AMG-related article to a page on each fansite. We want to only provide a link where a page on a fansite has substantively more information than is already in Wikipedia. That's why I'd like either or both of you to put a complete list here of the specific URLs of the pages you'd like to have linked from the WP articles - not all possible pages which have any information about AMG characters/episodes/locations, but only the ones which contain more information than is here already. Then once you paste a list, we can decide whether it makes more sense to use a template or to simply paste these links directly into the articles. Does this make sense? - Brian Kendig 00:11, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
If there is a page out there which contains a good deal more info than the Wikipedia article, then I see no problem with linking to it until some one has the time to bring that information into Wikipedia. If there is a page out there which does not contain as much info as the Wikipedia article, then please explain to me why Wikipedia should link to it? And, whipping up a variable template is a matter of only a few minutes, and I'll even do it for you. Please list the specific URLs you would like to link from Wikipedia (the pages which have substantially more info in them than the corresponding Wikipedia articles) and then we can decide the best way to go about putting them into articles, whether directly or by variable templates. I think the breakdown in our communication is that you have decided that a template is necessary, but I don't even know what specific pages we're linking to yet. And you can't have a template decide whether or not to show a link; if you're going to conditionally show links from up to four different sites, then you need to create four different templates. Again, I will help with this, but please list the specific URLs to link to so that we're all on the same wavelength. - Brian Kendig 14:34, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Hang on - I see you kind of came out of left field and changed Template:Oh My Goddess Extlnk to something of a complexity I had no idea you were working on. It appears that what you've got might be a good solution. Would you explain it here, would you document how it works and how to use it? - Brian Kendig 17:20, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Looking over it myself, I see how it works - I admit I wasn't aware it's possible to put a conditional into a template. Good work. It's much better than the previous solution of listing eight fansite home pages in each article, but there are still two issues I have with your template. First, it links to specific pages on each site even when they're not very useful (NobleScarlet.net in particular doesn't seem to have anything in it that Wikipedia doesn't), and it's fairly complex; I still believe you it might be more appropriate to have a separate variable template for each site, in case an article doesn't want to link to all three sites in the Extlink template. But these are minor issues; in general this template appears to be a much better solution than what was previously there. Let me look into this a little more, but I believe it may be appropriate to withdraw the template deletion request, since the template is substantially different now than it was before. - Brian Kendig 17:29, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
We still need a spoken word version of this article and its respective articles to replace the out of date (and artifical) version currently uploaded. - Dynamo_ace Talk 4th January 2006
With Cool Cat disappearing, we need someone else to so the spoken word version of this group of articles. Anyone up for it? - Dynamo_ace Talk
OK, Cool cat is not dissapering but we still need a spoken word version here. Anyone up for it?
Elsewhere, this article is now 30kb, i.e it is overloaded. If you plan to reorginaze the article, now would be the time.- Dynamo_ace Talk
I perhaps over archived but I really feel all that discussion was dead/concluded. -- Cool Cat Talk| @ 12:19, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
I know Oh My Goddess! inspired anime/manga significantly. Anything around over a decade has to influence the industry. This article should mention this. Plot and other such details are avalible in sub articles. After all that was the FAC criteria we failed to meet. -- Cool Cat Talk| @ 13:31, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
As stated on WP:EL: On articles about topics with many fansites, including a link to one major fansite is appropriate, marking the link as such. It's not appropriate to link eight fan sites from this article. It is even less appropriate to link the same eight fan sites from all seventy-two articles which have anything to do with the topic. If there's a specific web page which gives more information about Skuld, for example, then link to it from Skuld's article; but do not link from Skuld's article to the home pages of eight Ah My Goddess fan sites. - Brian Kendig 20:47, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
If you wish to link to a specific web page which is the source for information you've put into an article, the link to that page goes into the article's Sources section. If there is one widely-recognized predominant fan site which is authoritative on a subject, then link to it from the subject's main article. Otherwise, do not try to use Wikipedia to do the job that web directories and search engines already do so much better. And using a template to put the same exact site links into every article about a topic, that's still very wrong: first of all, you should link to a specific page dependent on each article, not to the top level of the fan site every time; second of all, if the fan sites are so ephemeral that you think you need to edit seventy-two different articles often enough to require a template, then these definitely aren't the kinds of fan sites that should be linked from Wikipedia. - Brian Kendig 22:34, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
This conversation seems to have spread across this talk page, your talk page, and my talk page. As it's a general-interest issue and not only between you and me, I'm going to remove it from my talk page and consolidate it here. What I would like to see is:
I would like to help with the AMG articles; in fact, I was thinking about watching the series and contributing to each article as I went along. And I think you've done a terrific job with them - they're full of a great deal of information! (In part, that's the problem - you've made it so there's really no need to link to other sites; the information is already here in the WP articles!) However, I still do not believe that an external links template is appropriate in this situation. - Brian Kendig 02:53, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
In my opion, the list is baised as there is no sites that are covering the TV series. Only the manga and OVA are being covered. Hardly fair. I suggest we adjust the templates to cover sites relating to all the versions. - Dynamo_ace Talk
You falsely accuse me of insulting you. I did criticise your surprising ineptness at constructing and following a logical argument based upon policy ( WP:EL does not back up your thesis), but I did so in a civil tone, not in an slanderous onslaught. Lest you continue to be in any doubt about this serious failing of yours, given your decision to involve yourself in policy discussions, I'll elaborate here.
Not at all. I merely give an analysis of the comment "in fact, I was thinking about watching the series and contributing to each article as I went along", which gives the impression your knowledge in the series is lacking. If it isn't, I apologize, but the statement certainly imposes the idea that you claim not to convey.
Absolutely not. Look at the proceeding conversation and the comments on the template talkpage. We've already established that everyone agrees with you , and I've already scrapped the idea of using the template for that purpose. No one has yet to even argue you on that basis, and you continue to bring this aspect up. There are many more creative ways for us to utilize this template.
In that case, then you have even less grounds to claim that you are supporting your stand on the subject. Please point out to me where, specifically the policy says this.
This is very hard to believe. Are you claiming that the comments I left on your talkpage, Cool Cat's talkpage and the template talkpage don't exist? In all of these posts I clearly summerized to you that I agreed with that point.
My last go. The insertion of the oringinal template clearly sat well with other people, and you seem to be the only one opposing its exsistance. This one sticks to the bare bones of policy. Add the fact that your userpage states as such. Fairly obvious stuff I should have thought.
I doubt that's really necessary. It's boiling down to your failure to construct a logical argument, supported by correct factual observations, to support your thesis. Please allow more people interested in this subject to comment before we take such an course of action.- Zero Talk 14:18, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
{The below is an previous and ongoing discussion copied from the template's talkpage)
In hopes for an agreement, I'd like to see if I can reach an agreement on this matter. The tempalte does have its usage, however, it might not be sensible for simply an calloboration of external links. I've changed the header to Sources and references, which is correct. Henceforth, the template can be utilzed as an link portal for references. Proceeding the template, I can place specific links to an fan website (or two) pointing to the subject in question- hence an external links section. I'm still specualting on the workability of this, and other's idea's and suggestions would be appreciated. - Zero Talk 09:51, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Linking from an article to individual pages which specifically provide more information about the article's topic, like for example linking from the Skuld article to a page with details about Skuld: that's good and appropriate. This can go into an External Links section; at some future time when the information in the fan page is pulled into the Wikipedia article, then it can be cited in a Sources section. Which links do you still intend to have the same in every article (by use of a template), though? - Brian Kendig 15:16, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
I think we misunderstand each other. I thought you were saying that you would use static links in the template (as had previously been done before I raised the issue) so that every article would have the same exact set of links to the same exact pages in it. That's what I don't feel is appropriate, neither for Sources nor for External Links - because these links, being the same in every article, would not be specific to the articles they're in. If on the other hand you're saying you'll make a template similar to the IMDB template - one to which you can pass parameters from each article, so that the template will create a link that's specific for the page it's on - then that's a really good idea. - Brian Kendig 15:45, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
I see you've been working on it - it's changed when I've looked at the article a couple of times today, but right now I don't see any article-specific links in it. When you've gotten it to a point that's ready to talk about, please let me know here, and we can discuss it. (Not on your talk page - this is an article issue, not a user issue, and I want it to remain visible.) - Brian Kendig 22:59, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
I just now looked over the work you did on the template. I don't think that gateway.cjb.net would work very well for a template; only a few characters there have pages of their own, and the URLs don't seem to have a consistent format to them - it would be easier to link them directly from articles, without using a template. On the other hand, www.noblescarlet.net does appear to be structured better and a template would be easier to use for that, so perhaps you could create a new template, maybe named "AMG character" or "NobleScarlet.net" or something similar? I think the template would be coded like this:
[http://www.noblescarlet.net/lexicon/{{{1|{{{name}}}}}}.php ''{{{2|{{{title|{{PAGENAME}}}}}}}}''] at NobleScarlet.net]
And called like this from an individual page: {{AMG character|name=Belldandy}}
or: {{AMG character|name=Skuld|title=Skuld}} (when the page name differs from the character name)
Let me know what you think. - Brian Kendig 20:49, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Continuing the discussion from
Template talk:Oh My Goddess Extlnk (thank you for copying it here!), let's discuss what our goals are and then we can find ways to accomplish them. First let me make sure we're still on the same page:
My goal is still to move away from simply listing fansites to providing links to targeted information that's beyond what Wikipedia contains at present. Someday, editors may copy the information from those fansite pages into the WP articles and drop the links; but for now, links to individual pages are okay, and I'll help you put them in. - Brian Kendig 21:17, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Cool. Would you like to start by coming up with a list of URLs of pages on the fan sites which contain substantially more information than the WP articles contain - the pages which should be linked from their respective articles? If you'd like to go through and find the pages to use and list their URLs here (also listing which article each one is for unless it's clear from the URL), I'll try to come up with a template for them - and if I can't, then I'll start putting them into the articles directly. At the same time as I do this, I'll be removing the old template with the static links from each article - actually, on second thought, I'll start with one article, then show it to you and make sure we both agree on it. Sound okay? -
Brian Kendig
21:31, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
You misunderstand me. You've only specified two links, and neither of them are to a character/episode/location page. :) I'd like you to go through those two sites and list the URLs you feel should be linked from Wikipedia, the pages which contain more info than what's here already. Based on the number of URLs you give me, and how they're formatted, we can figure out whether or not a variable template is feasible. - Brian Kendig 21:56, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Bringing here a discussion between myself and Cool Cat: Cat, we do not want to link from every AMG-related article to a page on each fansite. We want to only provide a link where a page on a fansite has substantively more information than is already in Wikipedia. That's why I'd like either or both of you to put a complete list here of the specific URLs of the pages you'd like to have linked from the WP articles - not all possible pages which have any information about AMG characters/episodes/locations, but only the ones which contain more information than is here already. Then once you paste a list, we can decide whether it makes more sense to use a template or to simply paste these links directly into the articles. Does this make sense? - Brian Kendig 00:11, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
If there is a page out there which contains a good deal more info than the Wikipedia article, then I see no problem with linking to it until some one has the time to bring that information into Wikipedia. If there is a page out there which does not contain as much info as the Wikipedia article, then please explain to me why Wikipedia should link to it? And, whipping up a variable template is a matter of only a few minutes, and I'll even do it for you. Please list the specific URLs you would like to link from Wikipedia (the pages which have substantially more info in them than the corresponding Wikipedia articles) and then we can decide the best way to go about putting them into articles, whether directly or by variable templates. I think the breakdown in our communication is that you have decided that a template is necessary, but I don't even know what specific pages we're linking to yet. And you can't have a template decide whether or not to show a link; if you're going to conditionally show links from up to four different sites, then you need to create four different templates. Again, I will help with this, but please list the specific URLs to link to so that we're all on the same wavelength. - Brian Kendig 14:34, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Hang on - I see you kind of came out of left field and changed Template:Oh My Goddess Extlnk to something of a complexity I had no idea you were working on. It appears that what you've got might be a good solution. Would you explain it here, would you document how it works and how to use it? - Brian Kendig 17:20, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Looking over it myself, I see how it works - I admit I wasn't aware it's possible to put a conditional into a template. Good work. It's much better than the previous solution of listing eight fansite home pages in each article, but there are still two issues I have with your template. First, it links to specific pages on each site even when they're not very useful (NobleScarlet.net in particular doesn't seem to have anything in it that Wikipedia doesn't), and it's fairly complex; I still believe you it might be more appropriate to have a separate variable template for each site, in case an article doesn't want to link to all three sites in the Extlink template. But these are minor issues; in general this template appears to be a much better solution than what was previously there. Let me look into this a little more, but I believe it may be appropriate to withdraw the template deletion request, since the template is substantially different now than it was before. - Brian Kendig 17:29, 27 February 2006 (UTC)