![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
If you are going to use a politically correct term like "[First nation]", then don't add a 'color' term like white right next to it. Socially engineered bias much?
COMMENTS ON THE CHAPLIN VIDEO: The erroneous argument that beavers always keep their head at water level during a tail splash whereas the animal in the Chaplin video does not was taken straight from the t.v. show "Unsolved Mysteries." A similiar argument would be assuming that all dogs keep their head in a certain position when wagging their tail. Comical, to say the least. For this reason I have deleted this line from the page. Also, to even suggest that the animal in the video could be anywhere near 15 ft long is an insult to anyone with an IQ over 50 (Comment added 11 december 2006)
Ok, I removed the sentence, "while a beaver's head would be either be level to the water or already diving prior to a tail slap," since this states that all beavers's heads are either level to the water or diving prior to a tail slap. This is patently FALSE and a weak argument at best. See the comment above. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.169.129.220 ( talk) 23:26, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
I also find it very odd that Chaplin was also able to take another video of it the very next day. Hmmm....and no one else has been able to do this?
Are there any recent sightings? Punk18 06:48, 24 June 2006
Why is there no reference to the Ogopogo song, from which the name originates? [1] Totnesmartin 20:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I see that "Mee-Shee" is on the list of names for this creature. "Mee-Shee" is not a real name, just a nonsense word invented for the fictional movie "Mee-Shee the Water Giant." As such, it should not be included here. Also, "Niataka" should be spelled "Naitaka." Shall I make these edits? User: Aelia
I can verify this Morin claims. I saw them with my peepers.
From where does the assertion that the Final Fantasy IV incarnation of Ogopogo "enjoys sex with humans" come? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.190.246.75 ( talk) 10:47, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I think the "In culture" and "In Popular culture" sections ought to be merged.. they seem redundant to each other. Micro01 ( talk) 03:39, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Has the ogopogo ever appeared in an official list of endangered species? Michael Hardy ( talk) 01:11, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
How do you know that? This is an animal suspected of being real, but they're not sure. Might they not err on the side of caution and make it illegal to hunt an animal that, if it exists, is found only in this one lake? Michael Hardy ( talk) 02:53, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
I was making it what is called "NPOV". An "NPOV" would be that the existence of this species is suspected by some people but not established. Michael Hardy ( talk) 00:01, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
This article was full of unsourced statements which had been tagged as needing a citation for 2 or 3 years. I have removed all of these statements, leaving only referenced statements and the popcult items, which are sourced by the books, films etc. they describe. All additions to this article need to fulfill core Wikipedian policies such as verifiability and the need to use reliable sources. Further, our policies on fringe subjects and giving information the proper weight need to be upheld as well. None of the statements I have removed should be re-added without a reliable source to support them, and any additional information needs to be backed up with citations as well, if we are to keep this article factual and presented from a neutral point of view. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 04:57, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Ogopogo/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
As a BC Project page, the page is better rated as a B than as a Start quality. KenWalker | Talk 21:39, 21 January 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 21:39, 21 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 01:44, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
I've just removed a ton of undue emphasis on cryptozoology, an obscure pseudoscience that dominated this article. Wikipedia has straightforward policies about this stuff, namely WP:UNDUE and WP:PSEUDOSCIENCE. This article also featured quite a few dead external links. All in all, it would do well to be rewritten with secondary sources composed by folklorists ( folkloristics). There's no reason to lean on poor quality sources with this stuff, nor to treat it like a Pokémon just waiting to be found somewhere rather than another water-dwelling entity from the folklore record. The stuff about First Nations peoples is also interesting and needs a serious examination. From what I'm seeing, chances are it's not being represented here correctly. :bloodofox: ( talk) 01:38, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
View Rewrite and the Talk page
I'm currently rewriting this article in a Sandbox page. I'm aiming to finish by the end of May. If there's anything you want added, let me know.
AspenSavannah (
talk)
18:03, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
The rewrite is taking longer than planned, but I'm still slowly working on it. It's still a mess, with notes and unfinished paragraphs.
For disclosure: The Ben Coxworth article, that exposes the Rocky Mountain Terror as a hoax, references an old web page of mine, Alberta Lake Monsters, and mentions me by name, Kevin Stewart. I had no input into the investigation other than what's mentioned in the article. AspenSavannah ( talk) 17:52, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
The first draft of my rewrite is finally done. It didn't go as plan & it's an expansion of the name section. I think it needs it's own page. AspenSavannah ( talk) 19:36, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
Beyond My Ken kindly explain why the following is being reverted: + * 2018: In June, the Escape (TV network) re-broadcasts the September 14, 1988 Unsolved Mysteries story and video footage with new host Dennis Farina narrating the interviewing of multiple witnesses that shot home video of Ogo Pogo. [1] Let us eat lettuce ( talk) 14:51, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
References
While the whole article is certainly a mess and needs to be rewritten, the article features what I'd consider to be two glaring problem sources:
@ Beyond My Ken: disagrees. Some observations; First, Shuker, like other cryptozoologists are not reliable sources for any data, and we shouldn't be linking to his personal blog for any reason (the blog exists to promote a pseudoscience). If it's notable, we can find another source or it. Next, a Google Maps link? Come on. Again, if it's notable, there's another source for it. :bloodofox: ( talk) 18:12, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
User:Beyond My Ken, you participated in the RfC that showed clear community consensus for the placement of article cleanup tags at the top of articles. This is community consensus and cannot be overridden by your personal opinion.
User:Beyond My Ken, there is a Wikipedia policy, WP:V, that says you cannot restore challenged information without a source. Do not restore it. Additionally, the RfC about examples in popular culture requires that these sources discuss the significance of each example in popular culture. Bright☀ 10:40, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
"Skeptic Benjamin Radford notes that “these First Nations stories were not referring to a literal lake monster like Ogopogo, but instead to a legendary water spirit.”[1]"
I can't find this quote online at the source. But I found the full one somewhere else :
"It's clear, however, that these stories were not referring to a literal lake monster like Ogopogo, but instead to a legendary water spirit. Though the supernatural N'ha-a-itk of the Okanagan Valley Indians is long gone, a decidedly less fearsome — and more biological — beast, whose exact form is a matter of debate, has replaced it." https://www.livescience.com/42399-ogopogo.html
This falsified quote was added in
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Ogopogo&diff=prev&oldid=671366235
by
/info/en/?search=User:Sgerbic
This user seems malignant, look at these articles he wrote and tell me he is not vandalizing with his quote cut in half.
http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/vandalism_on_wikipedia
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/is_wikipedia_a_conspiracy_common_myths_explained
(note that both the Benjamin Radfort quote cut by Sgerbic and his articles are on the same source website.
Ogbaba ( talk) 15:55, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
If you are going to use a politically correct term like "[First nation]", then don't add a 'color' term like white right next to it. Socially engineered bias much?
COMMENTS ON THE CHAPLIN VIDEO: The erroneous argument that beavers always keep their head at water level during a tail splash whereas the animal in the Chaplin video does not was taken straight from the t.v. show "Unsolved Mysteries." A similiar argument would be assuming that all dogs keep their head in a certain position when wagging their tail. Comical, to say the least. For this reason I have deleted this line from the page. Also, to even suggest that the animal in the video could be anywhere near 15 ft long is an insult to anyone with an IQ over 50 (Comment added 11 december 2006)
Ok, I removed the sentence, "while a beaver's head would be either be level to the water or already diving prior to a tail slap," since this states that all beavers's heads are either level to the water or diving prior to a tail slap. This is patently FALSE and a weak argument at best. See the comment above. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.169.129.220 ( talk) 23:26, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
I also find it very odd that Chaplin was also able to take another video of it the very next day. Hmmm....and no one else has been able to do this?
Are there any recent sightings? Punk18 06:48, 24 June 2006
Why is there no reference to the Ogopogo song, from which the name originates? [1] Totnesmartin 20:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I see that "Mee-Shee" is on the list of names for this creature. "Mee-Shee" is not a real name, just a nonsense word invented for the fictional movie "Mee-Shee the Water Giant." As such, it should not be included here. Also, "Niataka" should be spelled "Naitaka." Shall I make these edits? User: Aelia
I can verify this Morin claims. I saw them with my peepers.
From where does the assertion that the Final Fantasy IV incarnation of Ogopogo "enjoys sex with humans" come? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.190.246.75 ( talk) 10:47, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I think the "In culture" and "In Popular culture" sections ought to be merged.. they seem redundant to each other. Micro01 ( talk) 03:39, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Has the ogopogo ever appeared in an official list of endangered species? Michael Hardy ( talk) 01:11, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
How do you know that? This is an animal suspected of being real, but they're not sure. Might they not err on the side of caution and make it illegal to hunt an animal that, if it exists, is found only in this one lake? Michael Hardy ( talk) 02:53, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
I was making it what is called "NPOV". An "NPOV" would be that the existence of this species is suspected by some people but not established. Michael Hardy ( talk) 00:01, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
This article was full of unsourced statements which had been tagged as needing a citation for 2 or 3 years. I have removed all of these statements, leaving only referenced statements and the popcult items, which are sourced by the books, films etc. they describe. All additions to this article need to fulfill core Wikipedian policies such as verifiability and the need to use reliable sources. Further, our policies on fringe subjects and giving information the proper weight need to be upheld as well. None of the statements I have removed should be re-added without a reliable source to support them, and any additional information needs to be backed up with citations as well, if we are to keep this article factual and presented from a neutral point of view. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 04:57, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Ogopogo/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
As a BC Project page, the page is better rated as a B than as a Start quality. KenWalker | Talk 21:39, 21 January 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 21:39, 21 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 01:44, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
I've just removed a ton of undue emphasis on cryptozoology, an obscure pseudoscience that dominated this article. Wikipedia has straightforward policies about this stuff, namely WP:UNDUE and WP:PSEUDOSCIENCE. This article also featured quite a few dead external links. All in all, it would do well to be rewritten with secondary sources composed by folklorists ( folkloristics). There's no reason to lean on poor quality sources with this stuff, nor to treat it like a Pokémon just waiting to be found somewhere rather than another water-dwelling entity from the folklore record. The stuff about First Nations peoples is also interesting and needs a serious examination. From what I'm seeing, chances are it's not being represented here correctly. :bloodofox: ( talk) 01:38, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
View Rewrite and the Talk page
I'm currently rewriting this article in a Sandbox page. I'm aiming to finish by the end of May. If there's anything you want added, let me know.
AspenSavannah (
talk)
18:03, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
The rewrite is taking longer than planned, but I'm still slowly working on it. It's still a mess, with notes and unfinished paragraphs.
For disclosure: The Ben Coxworth article, that exposes the Rocky Mountain Terror as a hoax, references an old web page of mine, Alberta Lake Monsters, and mentions me by name, Kevin Stewart. I had no input into the investigation other than what's mentioned in the article. AspenSavannah ( talk) 17:52, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
The first draft of my rewrite is finally done. It didn't go as plan & it's an expansion of the name section. I think it needs it's own page. AspenSavannah ( talk) 19:36, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
Beyond My Ken kindly explain why the following is being reverted: + * 2018: In June, the Escape (TV network) re-broadcasts the September 14, 1988 Unsolved Mysteries story and video footage with new host Dennis Farina narrating the interviewing of multiple witnesses that shot home video of Ogo Pogo. [1] Let us eat lettuce ( talk) 14:51, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
References
While the whole article is certainly a mess and needs to be rewritten, the article features what I'd consider to be two glaring problem sources:
@ Beyond My Ken: disagrees. Some observations; First, Shuker, like other cryptozoologists are not reliable sources for any data, and we shouldn't be linking to his personal blog for any reason (the blog exists to promote a pseudoscience). If it's notable, we can find another source or it. Next, a Google Maps link? Come on. Again, if it's notable, there's another source for it. :bloodofox: ( talk) 18:12, 6 July 2018 (UTC)
User:Beyond My Ken, you participated in the RfC that showed clear community consensus for the placement of article cleanup tags at the top of articles. This is community consensus and cannot be overridden by your personal opinion.
User:Beyond My Ken, there is a Wikipedia policy, WP:V, that says you cannot restore challenged information without a source. Do not restore it. Additionally, the RfC about examples in popular culture requires that these sources discuss the significance of each example in popular culture. Bright☀ 10:40, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
"Skeptic Benjamin Radford notes that “these First Nations stories were not referring to a literal lake monster like Ogopogo, but instead to a legendary water spirit.”[1]"
I can't find this quote online at the source. But I found the full one somewhere else :
"It's clear, however, that these stories were not referring to a literal lake monster like Ogopogo, but instead to a legendary water spirit. Though the supernatural N'ha-a-itk of the Okanagan Valley Indians is long gone, a decidedly less fearsome — and more biological — beast, whose exact form is a matter of debate, has replaced it." https://www.livescience.com/42399-ogopogo.html
This falsified quote was added in
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Ogopogo&diff=prev&oldid=671366235
by
/info/en/?search=User:Sgerbic
This user seems malignant, look at these articles he wrote and tell me he is not vandalizing with his quote cut in half.
http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/show/vandalism_on_wikipedia
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/is_wikipedia_a_conspiracy_common_myths_explained
(note that both the Benjamin Radfort quote cut by Sgerbic and his articles are on the same source website.
Ogbaba ( talk) 15:55, 18 May 2019 (UTC)