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The details on these fires all have a lot of overlap. I'm not sure it's necessary to have ten individual articles. And several of the shorter ones have copied most of the lead of the Tubbs Fire article without proper attribution (see WP:Copying within Wikipedia). This is not my usual area of editing so I'm not sure what the standard is, but it seems to me that it might be better to merge to one article and redirect the individual pages here. Funcrunch ( talk) 17:13, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
I came to this discussion because of I am preparing articles on the wildfires for the German WP. — IMHO a discussion about merging the several articles is premature, since some of the fires might merge for themselves. Further, merging veryy likely would break the structre of the 2017 California wildfires article in which this article might or might not be merged in. -- Matthiasb ( talk) 13:01, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
I've withdrawn my merge suggestion for the Atlas and Tubbs fires, as it appears both articles ( Tubbs Fire in particular) are being actively expanded, and have more potential as standalone articles than some of the others that have already been merged. There also doesn't seem to be a consensus for merging the remaining articles at this time. Funcrunch ( talk) 00:37, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
The separate article on 2017 California wildfires should certainly be merged into this present one. As regards all those for individual fires, I suggest leaving them alone for the moment until the fires have burnt out/terminated, at which time the separate articles can be re-evaluated. Rif Winfield ( talk) 08:35, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
The state made a spelling error in their report page and the correct name of the fire is Patrick as it is on Patrick road.... [1]-- MONGO 14:35, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
Why are the fires in Nevada County not included in this article? At least two fires, the Lobo Fire and the McCourtney Fire destroyed 40 homes in Nevada County. It seems that they should be included in an article about a firestorm, especially considering that they started the same day, and by similar means.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:206:8100:6810:4907:52d2:36a6:6f6c ( talk • contribs) 7:04, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
As of October 12, 2017, it is still early, and the causes of most, if not all of the fires are listed by CAL FIRE as "under investigation". However, late on October 11, 2017, The The Mercury News of San Jose, California, reported that just prior to the fires breaking out there were numerous calls to emergency services reporting downed power lines in various areas, presumably caused by the high winds on Sunday evening, October 8. The story also mentioned that power lines owned by Pacific Gas & Electric Co. have been the cause of a number of wildfires in the recent past. Such should be added to the article once more concrete information becomes available. — Quicksilver (Hydrargyrum) T @ 17:26, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
Re the IP's infobox request, I was not sure how or if to add the standard wildfire infobox that is on the articles of the individual fires, because this article covers multiple fires. If someone else has a good way to do it please feel free... Funcrunch ( talk) 06:15, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
Red flag warnings are issued by the National Weather Service. This is incorrectly listed as CalFire issuing this warnings. Particularly, the National Weather Service office in Monterey California covers the North Bay ( http://www.weather.gov/mtr). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.90.75.204 ( talk) 01:44, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
User:NorthBySouthBaranof—I see that you reverted Dicklyon's downcasing of "Atlas fire" etc. It is WP's practice (see MOSCAPS) to cap only where the overwhelming majority of sources consistently use caps. This is not the case. And indeed, such caps in the main text make something of a fool of the article title, which is downcased. Please argue your case for capping here. Tony (talk) 05:47, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
Proper names of specific places, persons, terms, etc. are capitalized in accordance with standard usage.It is standard usage by official and academic sources (see International Journal of Wildland Fire, here referencing the Cedar Fire and Santiago Canyon Fire) to capitalize "Fire" in reference to a specific wildland fire in the United States and it is at least *widespread* among other sorts of reliable sources. NorthBySouthBaranof ( talk) 07:43, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Pressley Fire is not mentioned in this article. It was pulled into the Nuns Fire, it was small but destructive. My house was damaged and 5 of my neighbors lost everything. It seems that it has earned it's place on the page. Thank you! 2601:645:0:16BC:A8C4:306F:E0E7:BD5F ( talk) 23:25, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
October 16, the combined fire, which now also included the Pressley fire, covered over 48,000 acres.Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 23:33, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
Already completely removed by two editors, reliable media sources with worldwide presence including New York Times has reported on the "false" linking of the arrest to the fire, as well as the arrest and reports by ICE, Infowars, Breitbart, and CNBC which bring up the possibility that the suspect, or people like him, could be linked to the deadly fires even though he was arrested only for starting a fire which was quickly put out. While arson is not a "mainstream" theory, it has been mentioned as a goal and known tactic of terrorist groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda, and the sancturary issue was mentioned by ICE and is a major part of the Steinle controversy. It is up to question whether starting a fire is a "serious" enough crime to inform ICE given that over 40 people were killed a fire. The suspect is obviously lying about trying to stay warm in 78 degree weather and the authorities are obviously trying to downplay and rule out the possibility that he might have started the larger fires, that somebody like him might have been the cause of the fires, or that the fire he started could have gotten out of control and killed 40 people. None of these arguments justify deletion of a clearly notable arrest which is related to the fires. This version of events clearly includes both sides accusing the suspect of being an illegal immigrant who nearly started another fire who should have been deported instead of arrested and released a dozen times before, and the other side saying that unreliable new sources made up a story that an illegal immigrant started the fires that killed 41. This edit can be improve, but it should be included somewhere in this article as it is clearly relevant. The sheriff clearly said "we don't know if it was arson, it could have started any number of ways" yet the mostly likely way for fires to start up in so many ways in one hour, and in so many parts of California is that people who can't be connected to any nation state or terrorist group walk around setting fires "to keep warm" compared to natural fire starting causes. Nothing in the investigation section mentions any of the common arson theories, and this arrest is a curious ommision since it was back in October. Bachcell ( talk) 16:27, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
On
October 15, 2017 homeless man Jesus Fabian Gonzalez was arrested after walking away from a fire carrying a lighter and fire extinguisher started "to keep warm" in Sonoma County, California. It brought immigration policies into question as Gonzalez was an undocumented immigrant who immigration officials said has been returned twice to Mexico after a recently passed sanctuary state law prohibited law enforcement from sharing information about people with immigration agents unless convicted of serious crimes
[1]
[2] He was being held in jail on an arson and unrelated drug charge. When ICE asked to detain him for deportation Sheriff Rob Giordano refused as it was not signed by a judge and administrative detainers are unconstitutional. ICE stated it was "troubling in light of the massive wildfires...criminals who would otherwise be deported will be released". Cal Fire continued to investigate each fire despite the arson arrest as deadly fires still burned in the area.
[3] Right-wing websites including Breitbart and InfoWars were debunked after linking the arrest to deadly
October 2017 Northern California wildfires but Sheriff Rob Giordano said that was "highly unlikely” that Gonzalez was involved, and accused ICE of attacking "the sheriff’s office in the midst of the largest natural disaster this county has ever experienced”
[4]
[5]
[6]
References
{{
cite news}}
: Check |url=
value (
help)
The Jesus Fabian Gonzalez has been created and there is a considerable effort to censor any mention of what appears to be a deliberate arson attack and immigration debate in the same area and timeframe as the larger fires that killed 41, and generated a lot of media including New York Times and Los Angeles Times and speculation that despite reluctance of authorities and media to tie him to the larger fires, that possibility has not been completely ruled out. This article currently makes no mention of any arson theories or arrests which is a curious ommission suggesting a political agenda similar to efforts to remove or minimize actual terrorist attacks. Bachcell ( talk) 01:13, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
The reorganization plan for the 2019 bankruptcy of Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E) has a list of fires that it considers to be part of the 2017 North Bay Fires. [1] The list from PG&E includes additional fires not listed in the table in this article. The Bear Fire in Santa Cruz is not included in the PG&E list, because it was caused by arson. The following fires are not listed in this article:
Obankston ( talk) 02:50, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
References
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
October 2017 Northern California wildfires article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
A news item involving October 2017 Northern California wildfires was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 12 October 2017. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
The details on these fires all have a lot of overlap. I'm not sure it's necessary to have ten individual articles. And several of the shorter ones have copied most of the lead of the Tubbs Fire article without proper attribution (see WP:Copying within Wikipedia). This is not my usual area of editing so I'm not sure what the standard is, but it seems to me that it might be better to merge to one article and redirect the individual pages here. Funcrunch ( talk) 17:13, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
I came to this discussion because of I am preparing articles on the wildfires for the German WP. — IMHO a discussion about merging the several articles is premature, since some of the fires might merge for themselves. Further, merging veryy likely would break the structre of the 2017 California wildfires article in which this article might or might not be merged in. -- Matthiasb ( talk) 13:01, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
I've withdrawn my merge suggestion for the Atlas and Tubbs fires, as it appears both articles ( Tubbs Fire in particular) are being actively expanded, and have more potential as standalone articles than some of the others that have already been merged. There also doesn't seem to be a consensus for merging the remaining articles at this time. Funcrunch ( talk) 00:37, 13 October 2017 (UTC)
The separate article on 2017 California wildfires should certainly be merged into this present one. As regards all those for individual fires, I suggest leaving them alone for the moment until the fires have burnt out/terminated, at which time the separate articles can be re-evaluated. Rif Winfield ( talk) 08:35, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
The state made a spelling error in their report page and the correct name of the fire is Patrick as it is on Patrick road.... [1]-- MONGO 14:35, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
Why are the fires in Nevada County not included in this article? At least two fires, the Lobo Fire and the McCourtney Fire destroyed 40 homes in Nevada County. It seems that they should be included in an article about a firestorm, especially considering that they started the same day, and by similar means.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:206:8100:6810:4907:52d2:36a6:6f6c ( talk • contribs) 7:04, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
As of October 12, 2017, it is still early, and the causes of most, if not all of the fires are listed by CAL FIRE as "under investigation". However, late on October 11, 2017, The The Mercury News of San Jose, California, reported that just prior to the fires breaking out there were numerous calls to emergency services reporting downed power lines in various areas, presumably caused by the high winds on Sunday evening, October 8. The story also mentioned that power lines owned by Pacific Gas & Electric Co. have been the cause of a number of wildfires in the recent past. Such should be added to the article once more concrete information becomes available. — Quicksilver (Hydrargyrum) T @ 17:26, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
Re the IP's infobox request, I was not sure how or if to add the standard wildfire infobox that is on the articles of the individual fires, because this article covers multiple fires. If someone else has a good way to do it please feel free... Funcrunch ( talk) 06:15, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
Red flag warnings are issued by the National Weather Service. This is incorrectly listed as CalFire issuing this warnings. Particularly, the National Weather Service office in Monterey California covers the North Bay ( http://www.weather.gov/mtr). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.90.75.204 ( talk) 01:44, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
User:NorthBySouthBaranof—I see that you reverted Dicklyon's downcasing of "Atlas fire" etc. It is WP's practice (see MOSCAPS) to cap only where the overwhelming majority of sources consistently use caps. This is not the case. And indeed, such caps in the main text make something of a fool of the article title, which is downcased. Please argue your case for capping here. Tony (talk) 05:47, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
Proper names of specific places, persons, terms, etc. are capitalized in accordance with standard usage.It is standard usage by official and academic sources (see International Journal of Wildland Fire, here referencing the Cedar Fire and Santiago Canyon Fire) to capitalize "Fire" in reference to a specific wildland fire in the United States and it is at least *widespread* among other sorts of reliable sources. NorthBySouthBaranof ( talk) 07:43, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Pressley Fire is not mentioned in this article. It was pulled into the Nuns Fire, it was small but destructive. My house was damaged and 5 of my neighbors lost everything. It seems that it has earned it's place on the page. Thank you! 2601:645:0:16BC:A8C4:306F:E0E7:BD5F ( talk) 23:25, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
October 16, the combined fire, which now also included the Pressley fire, covered over 48,000 acres.Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 23:33, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
Already completely removed by two editors, reliable media sources with worldwide presence including New York Times has reported on the "false" linking of the arrest to the fire, as well as the arrest and reports by ICE, Infowars, Breitbart, and CNBC which bring up the possibility that the suspect, or people like him, could be linked to the deadly fires even though he was arrested only for starting a fire which was quickly put out. While arson is not a "mainstream" theory, it has been mentioned as a goal and known tactic of terrorist groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda, and the sancturary issue was mentioned by ICE and is a major part of the Steinle controversy. It is up to question whether starting a fire is a "serious" enough crime to inform ICE given that over 40 people were killed a fire. The suspect is obviously lying about trying to stay warm in 78 degree weather and the authorities are obviously trying to downplay and rule out the possibility that he might have started the larger fires, that somebody like him might have been the cause of the fires, or that the fire he started could have gotten out of control and killed 40 people. None of these arguments justify deletion of a clearly notable arrest which is related to the fires. This version of events clearly includes both sides accusing the suspect of being an illegal immigrant who nearly started another fire who should have been deported instead of arrested and released a dozen times before, and the other side saying that unreliable new sources made up a story that an illegal immigrant started the fires that killed 41. This edit can be improve, but it should be included somewhere in this article as it is clearly relevant. The sheriff clearly said "we don't know if it was arson, it could have started any number of ways" yet the mostly likely way for fires to start up in so many ways in one hour, and in so many parts of California is that people who can't be connected to any nation state or terrorist group walk around setting fires "to keep warm" compared to natural fire starting causes. Nothing in the investigation section mentions any of the common arson theories, and this arrest is a curious ommision since it was back in October. Bachcell ( talk) 16:27, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
On
October 15, 2017 homeless man Jesus Fabian Gonzalez was arrested after walking away from a fire carrying a lighter and fire extinguisher started "to keep warm" in Sonoma County, California. It brought immigration policies into question as Gonzalez was an undocumented immigrant who immigration officials said has been returned twice to Mexico after a recently passed sanctuary state law prohibited law enforcement from sharing information about people with immigration agents unless convicted of serious crimes
[1]
[2] He was being held in jail on an arson and unrelated drug charge. When ICE asked to detain him for deportation Sheriff Rob Giordano refused as it was not signed by a judge and administrative detainers are unconstitutional. ICE stated it was "troubling in light of the massive wildfires...criminals who would otherwise be deported will be released". Cal Fire continued to investigate each fire despite the arson arrest as deadly fires still burned in the area.
[3] Right-wing websites including Breitbart and InfoWars were debunked after linking the arrest to deadly
October 2017 Northern California wildfires but Sheriff Rob Giordano said that was "highly unlikely” that Gonzalez was involved, and accused ICE of attacking "the sheriff’s office in the midst of the largest natural disaster this county has ever experienced”
[4]
[5]
[6]
References
{{
cite news}}
: Check |url=
value (
help)
The Jesus Fabian Gonzalez has been created and there is a considerable effort to censor any mention of what appears to be a deliberate arson attack and immigration debate in the same area and timeframe as the larger fires that killed 41, and generated a lot of media including New York Times and Los Angeles Times and speculation that despite reluctance of authorities and media to tie him to the larger fires, that possibility has not been completely ruled out. This article currently makes no mention of any arson theories or arrests which is a curious ommission suggesting a political agenda similar to efforts to remove or minimize actual terrorist attacks. Bachcell ( talk) 01:13, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
The reorganization plan for the 2019 bankruptcy of Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E) has a list of fires that it considers to be part of the 2017 North Bay Fires. [1] The list from PG&E includes additional fires not listed in the table in this article. The Bear Fire in Santa Cruz is not included in the PG&E list, because it was caused by arson. The following fires are not listed in this article:
Obankston ( talk) 02:50, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
References