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Looks misnamed to me. Looks like it should be "Retribution Oath". Anyway, there is no objective reference for the naming here. -- Blue Tie ( talk) 14:40, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
It amuses me to see articles written based on merely ONE "source" for information. If one were to be truly objective about this they would have chosen sources from both sides of the story, not from someone who has fascinations with Mormons being a secret sect of the Free Masons. Silly silly people...eventually someone will write a non-bias article...I'll probably be over 100 years old though at that point. Infero Veritas ( talk) 16:10, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
The fact that almost all of the references are from one source (an avowed anti-mormon author), and the others are from senate testimony by a disaffected mormon means that at best there is a skewed point of view and at worst this article could be reporting fabrication. Until multiple better references can be produced, I think an NPOV tag is in order. Ryanfrei ( talk) 20:09, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
How about http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/readfile?fk_files=628620&pageno=106 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redrockcoyote ( talk • contribs) 07:13, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
I personally like the section about "In keeping with Mormon beliefs about Blood Atonement, Lee was executed by firing squad. Utah's capital punishment laws have always allowed the condemned to make a choice in the method of execution, with firing squad remaining as an option that allows for blood to be spilled on the ground," especially since the firing squad hasn't been used in Utah since the 90s, and it was removed from the list of options in 2004.
Glotof (
talk)
20:44, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
After reading the above comments I became curious, so I read the "one source" (Buerger). There are numerous original sources and documents cited by the "one source" that could be used as citations for this Wikipedia article. My guess would be that the original author of the article simply used a single compendium (Buerger) of information about the topic and cited just that one source. It would be trivial to break the citations down into multiple original documents that would provide the "multiple" references that are requested above. Now, the request for a "better" source is another thing altogether. Members of the LDS Church will never agree, no matter what proof is provided, that this oath ever existed. So, they will never be satisfied that any citation is "better". Overall, I thought the article was written in a neutral manner. Although the content may fester under some people's skin, I thought objectivity and adherence to existing evidence was presented.
As a side note, execution in Utah by firing squad still exists in Utah for inmates convicted before it was removed as an option. Ronnie Lee Gardner will be executed in Utah by firing squad, as per his choice, in June of 2010 (as of this writing). Bakirish ( talk) 21:01, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
This page, like many others in the Mormon section, may remain disputed as LDS believers are likely to object to any description of activities in the temple, whether or not they are still included in the rituals. However, I've tried to go through the article and increase the number of references to original documents such as speeches by Mormon leaders and official LDS publications. Can an editor take a look to see if it's more neutral and informative? Sincerely, your friendly anonymous cleanup person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.245.220.240 ( talk) 19:34, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Although I can understand and even agree with User:Good Olfactory, who has removed the wikilink to Revenge article that I've just added to the "avenge" word in this Oath of vengeance article, that this is everyday word understood by most readers in context, I strongly think that this looking at "avenge"/"revenge" as "everyday word understood by most readers in context" is correct and useful in articles in general,
but that this approach is not good in an article as this one (Oath of vengeance), in which avenge/revenge is a major topic and so it should be wikilinked ( Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking#What generally should be linked : "Relevant connections to the subject of another article that will help readers understand the article more fully", "Articles with relevant information" (and may be even "Articles explaining words of technical terms", as "avenge" here is not just a common speaking, but a precise topic related to the precise topic dealt by this article). -- 5.170.16.65 ( talk) 07:44, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Any related murders, etc.? 2A00:23C5:FE18:2701:BC76:69A2:1C4D:F2C9 ( talk) 23:44, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Oath of vengeance article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
Looks misnamed to me. Looks like it should be "Retribution Oath". Anyway, there is no objective reference for the naming here. -- Blue Tie ( talk) 14:40, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
It amuses me to see articles written based on merely ONE "source" for information. If one were to be truly objective about this they would have chosen sources from both sides of the story, not from someone who has fascinations with Mormons being a secret sect of the Free Masons. Silly silly people...eventually someone will write a non-bias article...I'll probably be over 100 years old though at that point. Infero Veritas ( talk) 16:10, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
The fact that almost all of the references are from one source (an avowed anti-mormon author), and the others are from senate testimony by a disaffected mormon means that at best there is a skewed point of view and at worst this article could be reporting fabrication. Until multiple better references can be produced, I think an NPOV tag is in order. Ryanfrei ( talk) 20:09, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
How about http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/readfile?fk_files=628620&pageno=106 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redrockcoyote ( talk • contribs) 07:13, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
I personally like the section about "In keeping with Mormon beliefs about Blood Atonement, Lee was executed by firing squad. Utah's capital punishment laws have always allowed the condemned to make a choice in the method of execution, with firing squad remaining as an option that allows for blood to be spilled on the ground," especially since the firing squad hasn't been used in Utah since the 90s, and it was removed from the list of options in 2004.
Glotof (
talk)
20:44, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
After reading the above comments I became curious, so I read the "one source" (Buerger). There are numerous original sources and documents cited by the "one source" that could be used as citations for this Wikipedia article. My guess would be that the original author of the article simply used a single compendium (Buerger) of information about the topic and cited just that one source. It would be trivial to break the citations down into multiple original documents that would provide the "multiple" references that are requested above. Now, the request for a "better" source is another thing altogether. Members of the LDS Church will never agree, no matter what proof is provided, that this oath ever existed. So, they will never be satisfied that any citation is "better". Overall, I thought the article was written in a neutral manner. Although the content may fester under some people's skin, I thought objectivity and adherence to existing evidence was presented.
As a side note, execution in Utah by firing squad still exists in Utah for inmates convicted before it was removed as an option. Ronnie Lee Gardner will be executed in Utah by firing squad, as per his choice, in June of 2010 (as of this writing). Bakirish ( talk) 21:01, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
This page, like many others in the Mormon section, may remain disputed as LDS believers are likely to object to any description of activities in the temple, whether or not they are still included in the rituals. However, I've tried to go through the article and increase the number of references to original documents such as speeches by Mormon leaders and official LDS publications. Can an editor take a look to see if it's more neutral and informative? Sincerely, your friendly anonymous cleanup person. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.245.220.240 ( talk) 19:34, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Although I can understand and even agree with User:Good Olfactory, who has removed the wikilink to Revenge article that I've just added to the "avenge" word in this Oath of vengeance article, that this is everyday word understood by most readers in context, I strongly think that this looking at "avenge"/"revenge" as "everyday word understood by most readers in context" is correct and useful in articles in general,
but that this approach is not good in an article as this one (Oath of vengeance), in which avenge/revenge is a major topic and so it should be wikilinked ( Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking#What generally should be linked : "Relevant connections to the subject of another article that will help readers understand the article more fully", "Articles with relevant information" (and may be even "Articles explaining words of technical terms", as "avenge" here is not just a common speaking, but a precise topic related to the precise topic dealt by this article). -- 5.170.16.65 ( talk) 07:44, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Any related murders, etc.? 2A00:23C5:FE18:2701:BC76:69A2:1C4D:F2C9 ( talk) 23:44, 18 June 2022 (UTC)