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Hmmm. Seems to me that "six-octave range" is an exaggeration. He was a tenor who used a set of techniques to reach beyond the two octaves most mortals can reach. As an example, in the video for "Must Nazron Se Allah Bachaye" it is clearly seen that the highest notes are sung by another party member. elpincha ( talk) 02:44, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
I was referring to these two statements: "kindly do some research before disputing this" and "Please note that it is actually disrespectful to enter claims that belong in the supernatural (e.g. it would be disrespectful to claim that NFAK levitated)". -- Sarabseth ( talk) 12:03, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
@Elpincha . Why does the 6 octave vocal range seems an exaggeration? Are there any proofs to prove that he didn't possess such an ability? Any articles published about it? Please share if any . IndieOKB ( talk) 17:31, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
(As far as I have listened to Nusrat) His lowest note is B2 (in one of the Nusrat-Brook collab tracks and in a 1993 recording of Chaap Tilak) and the highest is G5 (in the 1993 recording of Mera Piya Ghar Aaya performed at Washington University). But he does not sustain these notes. His lowest and highest sustained notes are C#3 and F5. Mostly he sung between C#3 and F5. C#3 to F5 is 2 octaves and 4 semitones (which is a great range, considering that he never used falsetto). B2 to G5 is 2 octaves and 8 semitones.
WellSoz ( talk) 08:45, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
Update: In a 1990 recording of Man Kunto Maula, he sustains G5 for a second or two. In a 1993 recording of Raag Gawati, he goes down to Bb2, for a second. In a 1989 recording of Raag Ahir Bhairav he goes down to A2. A2 to G5 is just two semitones short of 3 octaves. WellSoz ( talk) 06:28, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
Vocal Range of six octaves is not something impossible at all and has been attained by people on several occasions. The current record holder is Tim Storms who has attained 10 octave range check it out Five octaves as mentioned by elpincha is his range in inaudible frequency,below middle C... and not his complete vocal range.... Tim Storms is not alone ... there are quite a few record holders above 6 octaves... some of them are Georgia Brown (Brazil), Adam Lopez etc...
I would like to point that elpincha had been very direct and disrespectful without any proper citation. AvnishIT ( talk) 09:07, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
1) With all due respect, you're making edits based on OR, which violates the most basic Wikipedia principle.
2) Any singer who claims more than 3.5 octaves is either a white male hard-rock singer who wants his primal screams (as opposed to his singing) to hit the walls and back, or somebody who is more of a physical phenomenon than an artist. And of course, the ten octaves claim cannot be taken seriously. As pointed out in the previous section, Tim Storms has a vocal range of 10 octaves, and this is certified by Guinness. Perhaps it is you (and your personal opinion, unsupported by anything else) who should not be taken seriously?
3) I am reverting your edit to the article. Please do not restore it unless you can support your claims. -- Sarabseth ( talk) 13:23, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
To a person who has studied a little music, it is rather embarrassing to read this exchange and see the 6-octave claim continues to stay in Wikipedia. I know that the user elpincha did some "original research" and so is not supposed to change Wikipedia because of that, but perhaps that original research would convince some of you who doubt elpincha's findings to check with your own ears. If you would simply would write down the lower and higher notes he sings while you listen to his music you would see why 6 octaves is not true. (Simply because a thousand newspapers repeat something ridiculous does not make it true.) Ustad Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan is a great musician! He does not need anybody to claim that he could sing 6 octaves. That is not even an important thing about a true musician. But certainly he does not need false claims and it is not respectful to him for us to perpetuate them. Comparing this deep artist -- whose music is beloved by millions -- to a handful of physical oddballs -- whose "music" is known only to the machines recording their "music" for the Guinness record book (as elpincha wrote: "somebody who is more of a physical phenomenon than an artist") -- is not relevant and is disrespectful to NFAK. Ustad Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan SANG -- he did not make rumbling low notes like an elephant nor did he squeak nor sing high high notes above the range of an operatic coloratura soprano; he sang beautiful music. I will not edit the page but will leave it to those of you who are dedicated to NFAK and to this page -- but I beg you to use your own ears and check if you hear him singing anything below C3 or above C6 (and that is only a four octave range). David Couch ( talk) 09:14, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
It's not clear to me that http://www.nusrat.pl/nusrat/ represents a reliable source. These guys may be making a movie, but where did they get this "fact" from?
Also, I think Chiswick Chap and David Couch made a very relevant point. A person can technically have such a wide vocal range, but you achieve that by making "rumbling low notes like an elephant" and "high high notes above the range of an operatic coloratura soprano", and Nusrat certainly didn't do that. I'm not sure that the article is improved by adding this dubious, apparently incorrect claim just because some support can be found for it somewhere on the internet. -- Sarabseth ( talk) 11:30, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
I was searching for definite sources on vocal range of NFAK when I came across this. I found this YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkU-_xCRFOA that records various notes that NFAK hit. Maybe it would help all the experts above with evaluation. 39.45.151.215 ( talk) 15:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC) Nauman
The statement might have been taken from IMDB but is indisputably credible..
1. Considered One of the greatest singers ever recorded....... NFAK is featured & ranked in most of the greatest singers list and some of them are even mentioned in this wiki page.
2. Could perform at high Intensity for several hours... this fact is know to anyone who knows NFAK.. but is mentioned in the Asian Heroes Article by TIME.
3. Six-Octave Vocal length..... there must not be any speculation over the six octave vocal range. There are thousands of news reports & magazines reporting NFAK's 6-ocatve range. Any of them can be a trusted source as per Wikipedia Rules. Moreover ,Chhote Ustaad- Do Deshon Ki Ek Awaaz,a 2010 music program which featured Rahat & Sonu Nigam as judges shows Sonu Nigam explaining how his vocal range is incomparable to that of NFAK. A very strong source can be Ustad Ghulam Haider Khan, who explains in one of his articles for Friday Times where he talks about NFAK's voice technically telling that " He lacked the bass notes but still trained his vocal range to more that that of keys of Harmonium" , note that Harmonium can maximum be played to 6-octaves.This source has been added..
The Source:The source Pune Mirror is a part of "TIMES Group" and hence is a trust-able source irrespective of where the content is taken from. I have retained the the source for now because it directly references what has been said, all 3 points... however, any better source is always welcomed. AvnishIT ( talk) 01:05, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
It definitely makes sense to remove the Pune Mirror Source and most of the news sources have definitely copied the 6-octave story from Wikipedia/IMDB...... but the phrases "one of the greatest" and "high intensity" are indisputable and can be kept without any source.... NFAK's vocal range was definitely one the best in world, even National geographic described it as "Superhuman vocal abilities" .. any one who heard NFAK knows this ....i guess for now we should keep this fact based on Ustad Ghulam Haider Khan's description of NFAK's voice ..... Please see upper section on vocal length. AvnishIT ( talk) 08:42, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
The article was moved to page named "Pervez Fateh Ali Khan" , I have moved it back to the original title. Pervez was Nusrat's name only for a few years after his birth, and then he was named "Nusrat" by his father which remained forever. However I have retained the change of "Nusrat" By "Khan" because its more formal. AvnishIT ( talk) 07:26, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
While it seems clear that NFAK was a key figure in bringing Sufi music to us lot, it is perhaps not certain that he was the one and only person who did so. For example Brian Jones helped to bring Moroccan music to the west back in 1971. Perhaps we should make it clear that we are speaking about Qawwali music specifically? Chiswick Chap ( talk) 08:11, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
This is a pretty pointless quibble. Citation 1 says: “There are great singers, and then there are those few voices that transcend time.” As per citation 25, he was nominated as one of the 20 most iconic musicians from the past 50 years. As per citation 34, Paul Williams included him in his list of the 20th century’s top 40 greatest hits (across all forms of artistic expression) as one of only 11 musical acts.
All of this surely supports “Considered one of the greatest singers ever recorded”? -- Sarabseth ( talk) 23:08, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
And above all that it a know fact to anyone who knows music in India/Pakistan. AvnishIT ( talk) 04:06, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
fancruft, again please research the subject AvnishIT ( talk) 14:33, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
Please go through all the references given in the article, mainly Awards & Title & Influence & Tributes section .Also, there was a detailed discussion on this topic last year on talk page.. Please suggest a different version of introductory lines that justifies the subject if possible. AvnishIT ( talk) 13:18, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
Added new source. I am still stunned over so much fuss on this topic, ask anyone who knows music(ind/pak or even foreigners who knew him)....."Justifies the subject".. "Introduces NFAK adequately enough..." AvnishIT ( talk) 07:48, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
Hope this puts an end to the discussion:
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Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan (born Pervez Fateh Ali Khan; 13 October 1948 – 16 August 1997) was a Pakistani vocalist, musician, composer and music director primarily a singer of qawwali, a form of Sufi devotional music.[1] He is considered by some to be the greatest Sufi singer in the Punjabi, Hindi and Urdu language, and one of the greatest qawwali singers in history;[2][better source needed] he is often referred to as "Shahenshah-e-Qawwali" (the King of Kings of Qawwali).[3][4][5] He was described as the 4th greatest singer of all time by LA Weekly in 2016.[6] He was known for his vocal abilities and could perform at a high level of intensity for several hours.[7][8][9][10] He belonged to the Qawwal Bacchon Gharana (Delhi gharana) extending the 600-year old qawwali tradition of his family, Khan is widely credited with introducing qawwali music to international audiences.[11] 182.185.207.207 ( talk) 23:13, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
American media as only mentioned sources in an article about a Pakistani singer seems… odd. Are there no authoritative sources of reasonable prestige in English anywhere in India, Pakistan or Bangladesh? It makes them seem like definitive sources of judgement, and while I respect these publications, as an American observer, I’d be more impressed by what sources closer to the primary / original audience think. tvleavitt ( talk) 06:55, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
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This article is written in Pakistani English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, travelled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
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Hmmm. Seems to me that "six-octave range" is an exaggeration. He was a tenor who used a set of techniques to reach beyond the two octaves most mortals can reach. As an example, in the video for "Must Nazron Se Allah Bachaye" it is clearly seen that the highest notes are sung by another party member. elpincha ( talk) 02:44, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
I was referring to these two statements: "kindly do some research before disputing this" and "Please note that it is actually disrespectful to enter claims that belong in the supernatural (e.g. it would be disrespectful to claim that NFAK levitated)". -- Sarabseth ( talk) 12:03, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
@Elpincha . Why does the 6 octave vocal range seems an exaggeration? Are there any proofs to prove that he didn't possess such an ability? Any articles published about it? Please share if any . IndieOKB ( talk) 17:31, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
(As far as I have listened to Nusrat) His lowest note is B2 (in one of the Nusrat-Brook collab tracks and in a 1993 recording of Chaap Tilak) and the highest is G5 (in the 1993 recording of Mera Piya Ghar Aaya performed at Washington University). But he does not sustain these notes. His lowest and highest sustained notes are C#3 and F5. Mostly he sung between C#3 and F5. C#3 to F5 is 2 octaves and 4 semitones (which is a great range, considering that he never used falsetto). B2 to G5 is 2 octaves and 8 semitones.
WellSoz ( talk) 08:45, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
Update: In a 1990 recording of Man Kunto Maula, he sustains G5 for a second or two. In a 1993 recording of Raag Gawati, he goes down to Bb2, for a second. In a 1989 recording of Raag Ahir Bhairav he goes down to A2. A2 to G5 is just two semitones short of 3 octaves. WellSoz ( talk) 06:28, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
Vocal Range of six octaves is not something impossible at all and has been attained by people on several occasions. The current record holder is Tim Storms who has attained 10 octave range check it out Five octaves as mentioned by elpincha is his range in inaudible frequency,below middle C... and not his complete vocal range.... Tim Storms is not alone ... there are quite a few record holders above 6 octaves... some of them are Georgia Brown (Brazil), Adam Lopez etc...
I would like to point that elpincha had been very direct and disrespectful without any proper citation. AvnishIT ( talk) 09:07, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
1) With all due respect, you're making edits based on OR, which violates the most basic Wikipedia principle.
2) Any singer who claims more than 3.5 octaves is either a white male hard-rock singer who wants his primal screams (as opposed to his singing) to hit the walls and back, or somebody who is more of a physical phenomenon than an artist. And of course, the ten octaves claim cannot be taken seriously. As pointed out in the previous section, Tim Storms has a vocal range of 10 octaves, and this is certified by Guinness. Perhaps it is you (and your personal opinion, unsupported by anything else) who should not be taken seriously?
3) I am reverting your edit to the article. Please do not restore it unless you can support your claims. -- Sarabseth ( talk) 13:23, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
To a person who has studied a little music, it is rather embarrassing to read this exchange and see the 6-octave claim continues to stay in Wikipedia. I know that the user elpincha did some "original research" and so is not supposed to change Wikipedia because of that, but perhaps that original research would convince some of you who doubt elpincha's findings to check with your own ears. If you would simply would write down the lower and higher notes he sings while you listen to his music you would see why 6 octaves is not true. (Simply because a thousand newspapers repeat something ridiculous does not make it true.) Ustad Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan is a great musician! He does not need anybody to claim that he could sing 6 octaves. That is not even an important thing about a true musician. But certainly he does not need false claims and it is not respectful to him for us to perpetuate them. Comparing this deep artist -- whose music is beloved by millions -- to a handful of physical oddballs -- whose "music" is known only to the machines recording their "music" for the Guinness record book (as elpincha wrote: "somebody who is more of a physical phenomenon than an artist") -- is not relevant and is disrespectful to NFAK. Ustad Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan SANG -- he did not make rumbling low notes like an elephant nor did he squeak nor sing high high notes above the range of an operatic coloratura soprano; he sang beautiful music. I will not edit the page but will leave it to those of you who are dedicated to NFAK and to this page -- but I beg you to use your own ears and check if you hear him singing anything below C3 or above C6 (and that is only a four octave range). David Couch ( talk) 09:14, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
It's not clear to me that http://www.nusrat.pl/nusrat/ represents a reliable source. These guys may be making a movie, but where did they get this "fact" from?
Also, I think Chiswick Chap and David Couch made a very relevant point. A person can technically have such a wide vocal range, but you achieve that by making "rumbling low notes like an elephant" and "high high notes above the range of an operatic coloratura soprano", and Nusrat certainly didn't do that. I'm not sure that the article is improved by adding this dubious, apparently incorrect claim just because some support can be found for it somewhere on the internet. -- Sarabseth ( talk) 11:30, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
I was searching for definite sources on vocal range of NFAK when I came across this. I found this YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkU-_xCRFOA that records various notes that NFAK hit. Maybe it would help all the experts above with evaluation. 39.45.151.215 ( talk) 15:34, 19 May 2020 (UTC) Nauman
The statement might have been taken from IMDB but is indisputably credible..
1. Considered One of the greatest singers ever recorded....... NFAK is featured & ranked in most of the greatest singers list and some of them are even mentioned in this wiki page.
2. Could perform at high Intensity for several hours... this fact is know to anyone who knows NFAK.. but is mentioned in the Asian Heroes Article by TIME.
3. Six-Octave Vocal length..... there must not be any speculation over the six octave vocal range. There are thousands of news reports & magazines reporting NFAK's 6-ocatve range. Any of them can be a trusted source as per Wikipedia Rules. Moreover ,Chhote Ustaad- Do Deshon Ki Ek Awaaz,a 2010 music program which featured Rahat & Sonu Nigam as judges shows Sonu Nigam explaining how his vocal range is incomparable to that of NFAK. A very strong source can be Ustad Ghulam Haider Khan, who explains in one of his articles for Friday Times where he talks about NFAK's voice technically telling that " He lacked the bass notes but still trained his vocal range to more that that of keys of Harmonium" , note that Harmonium can maximum be played to 6-octaves.This source has been added..
The Source:The source Pune Mirror is a part of "TIMES Group" and hence is a trust-able source irrespective of where the content is taken from. I have retained the the source for now because it directly references what has been said, all 3 points... however, any better source is always welcomed. AvnishIT ( talk) 01:05, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
It definitely makes sense to remove the Pune Mirror Source and most of the news sources have definitely copied the 6-octave story from Wikipedia/IMDB...... but the phrases "one of the greatest" and "high intensity" are indisputable and can be kept without any source.... NFAK's vocal range was definitely one the best in world, even National geographic described it as "Superhuman vocal abilities" .. any one who heard NFAK knows this ....i guess for now we should keep this fact based on Ustad Ghulam Haider Khan's description of NFAK's voice ..... Please see upper section on vocal length. AvnishIT ( talk) 08:42, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
The article was moved to page named "Pervez Fateh Ali Khan" , I have moved it back to the original title. Pervez was Nusrat's name only for a few years after his birth, and then he was named "Nusrat" by his father which remained forever. However I have retained the change of "Nusrat" By "Khan" because its more formal. AvnishIT ( talk) 07:26, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
While it seems clear that NFAK was a key figure in bringing Sufi music to us lot, it is perhaps not certain that he was the one and only person who did so. For example Brian Jones helped to bring Moroccan music to the west back in 1971. Perhaps we should make it clear that we are speaking about Qawwali music specifically? Chiswick Chap ( talk) 08:11, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
This is a pretty pointless quibble. Citation 1 says: “There are great singers, and then there are those few voices that transcend time.” As per citation 25, he was nominated as one of the 20 most iconic musicians from the past 50 years. As per citation 34, Paul Williams included him in his list of the 20th century’s top 40 greatest hits (across all forms of artistic expression) as one of only 11 musical acts.
All of this surely supports “Considered one of the greatest singers ever recorded”? -- Sarabseth ( talk) 23:08, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
And above all that it a know fact to anyone who knows music in India/Pakistan. AvnishIT ( talk) 04:06, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
fancruft, again please research the subject AvnishIT ( talk) 14:33, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
Please go through all the references given in the article, mainly Awards & Title & Influence & Tributes section .Also, there was a detailed discussion on this topic last year on talk page.. Please suggest a different version of introductory lines that justifies the subject if possible. AvnishIT ( talk) 13:18, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
Added new source. I am still stunned over so much fuss on this topic, ask anyone who knows music(ind/pak or even foreigners who knew him)....."Justifies the subject".. "Introduces NFAK adequately enough..." AvnishIT ( talk) 07:48, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
Hope this puts an end to the discussion:
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Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan (born Pervez Fateh Ali Khan; 13 October 1948 – 16 August 1997) was a Pakistani vocalist, musician, composer and music director primarily a singer of qawwali, a form of Sufi devotional music.[1] He is considered by some to be the greatest Sufi singer in the Punjabi, Hindi and Urdu language, and one of the greatest qawwali singers in history;[2][better source needed] he is often referred to as "Shahenshah-e-Qawwali" (the King of Kings of Qawwali).[3][4][5] He was described as the 4th greatest singer of all time by LA Weekly in 2016.[6] He was known for his vocal abilities and could perform at a high level of intensity for several hours.[7][8][9][10] He belonged to the Qawwal Bacchon Gharana (Delhi gharana) extending the 600-year old qawwali tradition of his family, Khan is widely credited with introducing qawwali music to international audiences.[11] 182.185.207.207 ( talk) 23:13, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
American media as only mentioned sources in an article about a Pakistani singer seems… odd. Are there no authoritative sources of reasonable prestige in English anywhere in India, Pakistan or Bangladesh? It makes them seem like definitive sources of judgement, and while I respect these publications, as an American observer, I’d be more impressed by what sources closer to the primary / original audience think. tvleavitt ( talk) 06:55, 16 December 2022 (UTC)