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@
FuzzyMagma thank you for your contribution to
Nuer Genocide yes Genocide is a legal description but it also mean intentional destruction of people in whole or part. Nuer Genocide was condemned by international communities, IGAD, United Nations Mission in South Sudan which caused huge tensions and rough relationship between United Nation and the genocidal government of South Sudan led by President Kiir. What happened to Nuer was clearly a genocide. Please do not move the article to massacre. Massacre is what the perpetrators labeled it. The world know it was a genocide. [[
Gatwech Gai (
talk)
04:26, 28 May 2024 (UTC)]]reply
Events can only be termed a genocide in wikivoice, per the
WP:NPOV policy, if there is a consensus in sources that they are genocide. So far, the majority of sources are calling it "
massacre", "
killings", "
Killins", "massacre", "summary execution", "ethnically driven killings", "atrocities" etc. The current title is not the WP:COMMONNAME and does not satisfy the criteria in
WP:POVTITLE. The only source describing this event as a genocide is
Nyamilepedia and they are unreliable, see
Mass media in South Sudan#Unreliable.
@
FuzzyMagma I really don't think you have enough information about South Sudan because if you do, you would never trust what the Mass Media in South Sudan put out. There is no freedom for journalism/journalists in South Sudan. The same president who committed Nuer Genocide control the media. All the news outlet only put out censored information. There is SPLA Captain whose job is to solely verify all the news before they are being air. Countless journalist were killed just for reporting the genocide. two Kenyan journalists were tortured and striped off of all the evidence of the genocide before they were deported to Nairobi.
https://sudantribune.com/article226677/ reported the genocide by the way, and Nyamilepedia that you said is unreliable are actually the most reliable because the state government do not control them.
Human Right Watch termed the 2013 incident as ethnic cleansing and a looming genocide two days after the pogrom. It only became a civil war after the Nuer formed their army to retaliate. Hilde Johnson who was the head of United Nation mission in South Sudan at the time wrote a book about it and termed it as a Genocide.
If you or other editors in here cannot move it back to Nuer Genocide, then I suggest you nominate this article for quick deletion since you guys have all the power to silence the Nuer people's truth. this article is not my own research, its a collaboration work from Nuer people, there is no point having this article in Wikipedia as Nuer Massacre. don't forget to notify me, the creator about the article deletion.
Gatwech Gai (
talk)
02:09, 30 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ethnic cleansing and
genocide are two different terms. Read
this if you are interested in knowing the difference. I myself didn’t know the difference 3 months ago and thought they were interchangeable
I really think you should start listening and read the policies that I have tagged before meanwhile this is not the place for
journalism and
you don’t own the article to ask us to delete it.
Gatwech Gai, I didn't break a single policy by warning you, but I'm not surprised you claim that. I obviously didn't block you from editing--and please keep the "smh" type of comment for Facebook. When you edit articles and talk pages, please copy edit before you click "Publish changes".— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Drmies (
talk •
contribs)
14:49, 2 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Neutrality
You can't use language like "to conceal his evil plan", "The atrocities committed against the Nuer are an abomination", "were beyond comprehension", etc. I understand it may be difficult to write in a neutral point of view of such events, but that is what is required. Please review the article and update when appropriate — Martin (
MSGJ ·
talk)
11:46, 6 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Thanks @
Gatwech Gai. During this weekend, I will try to go through the article, do some copy editing to remove the tag at the lead, and merge the
Juba Nuer Massacre to this article.
Moving forward, if you are interested, I am planning to write about couple of atrocities that happened in southern Sudan (before independence) that were committed mostly by the (northern) government of Sudan through Arab militia or directly like:
Muraheleen a (northern) pro-government militia similar to the
Janjaweed but targeted southerners, se
hrw and
Uni Mannheim. The militi was successed by the
Popular Defence Forces (another group that committed many massacres in the south)
PS: as you can see the redlinks are to a Draft not a page just to allow for the article to be developed properly before being moved to the mainspace where it can be deleted from multiple reasons.
FuzzyMagma (
talk)
08:20, 18 June 2024 (UTC)reply
I think that is good idea to write articles about these tragic events that are now seem to be forgotten and bring them back to live. I will be ready to help in developing those articles. Its good that you found reliable books and reports that can be sourced because the lack of mainstream media availability in Southern Sudan during the liberation struggles contributed to dozen atrocities committed against the Southerners by the Northern Sudan government to be forgotten.
Gatwech Gai (
talk)
00:00, 19 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Hi, I’m pretty busy these does, would you mind have a go at merging
Juba Nuer Massacre to this article? I see you have started the NPP adventure and this might be a good way to practice your knowledge.
I add some information from the previous page. I really think that this article is not far from
Good article status. We can do more work and co-nominate it to be reviewed. It will be an excellent exercise for your to hone your editing skills and further improve the quality of the article.
FuzzyMagma (
talk)
08:23, 27 June 2024 (UTC)reply
in the first paragraph you said that Machar announced he will for presidency in 2013 and now you changed to 2015. If this is try, then this happened after the massacre!
FuzzyMagma (
talk)
18:42, 13 June 2024 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject AfricaTemplate:WikiProject AfricaAfrica articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Human rights, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Human rights on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Human rightsWikipedia:WikiProject Human rightsTemplate:WikiProject Human rightsHuman rights articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject International relations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
International relations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.International relationsWikipedia:WikiProject International relationsTemplate:WikiProject International relationsInternational relations articles
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the
full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
@
FuzzyMagma thank you for your contribution to
Nuer Genocide yes Genocide is a legal description but it also mean intentional destruction of people in whole or part. Nuer Genocide was condemned by international communities, IGAD, United Nations Mission in South Sudan which caused huge tensions and rough relationship between United Nation and the genocidal government of South Sudan led by President Kiir. What happened to Nuer was clearly a genocide. Please do not move the article to massacre. Massacre is what the perpetrators labeled it. The world know it was a genocide. [[
Gatwech Gai (
talk)
04:26, 28 May 2024 (UTC)]]reply
Events can only be termed a genocide in wikivoice, per the
WP:NPOV policy, if there is a consensus in sources that they are genocide. So far, the majority of sources are calling it "
massacre", "
killings", "
Killins", "massacre", "summary execution", "ethnically driven killings", "atrocities" etc. The current title is not the WP:COMMONNAME and does not satisfy the criteria in
WP:POVTITLE. The only source describing this event as a genocide is
Nyamilepedia and they are unreliable, see
Mass media in South Sudan#Unreliable.
@
FuzzyMagma I really don't think you have enough information about South Sudan because if you do, you would never trust what the Mass Media in South Sudan put out. There is no freedom for journalism/journalists in South Sudan. The same president who committed Nuer Genocide control the media. All the news outlet only put out censored information. There is SPLA Captain whose job is to solely verify all the news before they are being air. Countless journalist were killed just for reporting the genocide. two Kenyan journalists were tortured and striped off of all the evidence of the genocide before they were deported to Nairobi.
https://sudantribune.com/article226677/ reported the genocide by the way, and Nyamilepedia that you said is unreliable are actually the most reliable because the state government do not control them.
Human Right Watch termed the 2013 incident as ethnic cleansing and a looming genocide two days after the pogrom. It only became a civil war after the Nuer formed their army to retaliate. Hilde Johnson who was the head of United Nation mission in South Sudan at the time wrote a book about it and termed it as a Genocide.
If you or other editors in here cannot move it back to Nuer Genocide, then I suggest you nominate this article for quick deletion since you guys have all the power to silence the Nuer people's truth. this article is not my own research, its a collaboration work from Nuer people, there is no point having this article in Wikipedia as Nuer Massacre. don't forget to notify me, the creator about the article deletion.
Gatwech Gai (
talk)
02:09, 30 May 2024 (UTC)reply
ethnic cleansing and
genocide are two different terms. Read
this if you are interested in knowing the difference. I myself didn’t know the difference 3 months ago and thought they were interchangeable
I really think you should start listening and read the policies that I have tagged before meanwhile this is not the place for
journalism and
you don’t own the article to ask us to delete it.
Gatwech Gai, I didn't break a single policy by warning you, but I'm not surprised you claim that. I obviously didn't block you from editing--and please keep the "smh" type of comment for Facebook. When you edit articles and talk pages, please copy edit before you click "Publish changes".— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Drmies (
talk •
contribs)
14:49, 2 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Neutrality
You can't use language like "to conceal his evil plan", "The atrocities committed against the Nuer are an abomination", "were beyond comprehension", etc. I understand it may be difficult to write in a neutral point of view of such events, but that is what is required. Please review the article and update when appropriate — Martin (
MSGJ ·
talk)
11:46, 6 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Thanks @
Gatwech Gai. During this weekend, I will try to go through the article, do some copy editing to remove the tag at the lead, and merge the
Juba Nuer Massacre to this article.
Moving forward, if you are interested, I am planning to write about couple of atrocities that happened in southern Sudan (before independence) that were committed mostly by the (northern) government of Sudan through Arab militia or directly like:
Muraheleen a (northern) pro-government militia similar to the
Janjaweed but targeted southerners, se
hrw and
Uni Mannheim. The militi was successed by the
Popular Defence Forces (another group that committed many massacres in the south)
PS: as you can see the redlinks are to a Draft not a page just to allow for the article to be developed properly before being moved to the mainspace where it can be deleted from multiple reasons.
FuzzyMagma (
talk)
08:20, 18 June 2024 (UTC)reply
I think that is good idea to write articles about these tragic events that are now seem to be forgotten and bring them back to live. I will be ready to help in developing those articles. Its good that you found reliable books and reports that can be sourced because the lack of mainstream media availability in Southern Sudan during the liberation struggles contributed to dozen atrocities committed against the Southerners by the Northern Sudan government to be forgotten.
Gatwech Gai (
talk)
00:00, 19 June 2024 (UTC)reply
Hi, I’m pretty busy these does, would you mind have a go at merging
Juba Nuer Massacre to this article? I see you have started the NPP adventure and this might be a good way to practice your knowledge.
I add some information from the previous page. I really think that this article is not far from
Good article status. We can do more work and co-nominate it to be reviewed. It will be an excellent exercise for your to hone your editing skills and further improve the quality of the article.
FuzzyMagma (
talk)
08:23, 27 June 2024 (UTC)reply
in the first paragraph you said that Machar announced he will for presidency in 2013 and now you changed to 2015. If this is try, then this happened after the massacre!
FuzzyMagma (
talk)
18:42, 13 June 2024 (UTC)reply