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I need help in finding a fair way to cite this. As a nu metal fan for 10 years, I KNOW that this is factual. Please do not revert this information. I would just like a way to cite it properly without causing controversy. For anybody skeptical, please listen to at least 1 nu metal song by korn or mudvayne. 70.119.203.248 ( talk) 01:41, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
This article has some serious citation overkill issues. I can only guess some serious edit-warring was going on. Always sad whenever genre warriors and their spawn have such an effect on articles. -- œ ™ 16:47, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Last time I checked nu metal's article it was a part of alt metal article. I really thought it should have its own article and now I'm happy it has. But how come now, alt metal isn't even mentioned ANY WHERE in this article? Nu metal bands (KoRn, Deftones, Mudavayne) where a part of alt metal movement (and there are sources for this). Plus, many alt metal bands where strongly influenced by nu metal (Linkin park, Evanescence, SOAD). I think Alt.metal has to be in the "Stylistic Origins" section or at least be mentioned somewhere in the article. 85.25.120.24 ( talk) 08:43, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
The article makes no mention of the decline of Nu metal in the early to mid 2000's. If anyone is willing to dig up references, I'd be happy to work with you. -- Confession0791 ( talk) 19:01, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
this article needs to be expanded —Preceding unsigned comment added by Feedmyeyes ( talk • contribs) 17:41, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Is this a joke???? Microamigo ( talk) 11:32, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
No, he did a full nu metal album called hard to swallow, it includes songs like "Too Cold". Metalfan72 ( talk) 23:58, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
I don't think that rap metal and hip hop had anything to do with the formation of nu metal. Thought there already are some sources. Any nu metal which has rapping vocals in it, isn't already classified as pure nu metal, it's classified as nu metal/rap metal. Nu metal is some kind of a more aggressive type of alternative metal with strong elements of funk metal and grunge. That might be only my opinion, but I don't get it why do rap metal and hip hop have anything to do with nu metal. Could somebody explain that to me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ETFFAN123 ( talk • contribs) 18:08, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
Im not here to complain or something, but I was wondering why nu metal is included in the all the metal stuff when the popular opinion from most metal and non-metal fans is that it isnt metal? I mean in the same way that the dubstep article makes the distinction between dubstep and brostep and because the nu metal bands themselves even disagree on calling themselves metal. 92.7.85.226 ( talk) 02:41, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
Well if you can specifically find reliable (not user generated sites and forums like metal archives) sources saying nu metal isn't metal, then you can include it on this article or wherever you want to, but i doubt you'll find any. The opinion that nu metal isn't metal is just an opinion. The majority of reliable sources agree that it's a sub-genre of metal.
It is a subgenre of heavy metal. It may not be as 'heavy' as traditional heavy metal or thrash metal, but it is still metal. Portillo ( talk) 20:34, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
That doesn't make it metal. It's called a subgenre because it fused it with other music like grunge/rap and for having a major effect on the metal scene. It says in the article that it's a fusion genre. Although if you look at the criticism section, it does talk about its dispute over being metal or not. It's not metal. It's somewhat metal. Just a little. It's somewhat grunge and rap (unless the band uses turntables and rapping and are funky, I'll call it rap, mostly rap rock). Because it fuses it with other music, so mathematically it isn't metal. Like how you mix blue and yellow together, you get green, but green isn't blue or yellow. It's half of both. Doesn't mean I'll change the article denying it's credit as metal. But that's why I believe it isn't metal. Doesn't mean I dislike it. I think it can be good. BlastBeat4 ( talk) 00:23, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
well that's your opinion, but you need actual sources specifically saying its not metal, and they have to be by professional journalists, not some third rate metal website, which is the case most of the time regrading this issue. and none of the sources in the criticism section are really reliable, since they were added by a banned sock puppet user inforcing his personal bias regrading this genre. And in the end nu metal isn't really an actual genre, it's just a made up term created by the media and angry metalheads, it's all just Alternative metal, and if alternative metal isn't metal then bands like Tool, Faith No More. Alice in Chains and Helmet (some of which are on the metal archives) aren't metal either — Preceding unsigned comment added by I call the big one bitey ( talk • contribs)
I havent read any books on the history of metal, but I assume many of them include the alternative/nu metal scene as a part of the history. I think many people simply dont like nu metal and therefore dont like including it as a part of heavy metal. Portillo ( talk) 03:27, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Well, Thrash Metal is a combination of Hardcore Punk and the NWOBHM and that's still considered metal. UltimateLegend ( talk) 04:28, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
"Nu metal is noted for participation of women in the genre in contrast to other metal genres," it currently says under "Characteristics." I don't think that's an accurate reading of the linked Billboard article or of reality. The existence of a few female bands that can be categorized as nu metal doesn't make this genre any less male dominated than "other metal genres." It's at least as much, if not moreso. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.209.111.67 ( talk) 22:03, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Nu metal was/is just as much a sausage fest as any other metal genre save maybe symphonic/gothic metal. I say that line should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.229.220.97 ( talk) 01:43, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
I don't see more women at a Korn concert than at a Metallica concert, K? There are plenty of women at a Korn concert, but the line makes it sound like there's 5 women at an Anthrax concert and over 9000 women at a Hollywood undead concert. Take that line to an abortion clinic and abort it.
This article now has only three photos. This seems like some photos could be added. WP:Image use policy states that "Images on Wikipedia should be used in an encyclopedic manner. They should be relevant and increase readers' understanding of the subject matter. In general, images should depict the concepts described in the text of the article." I added photos which illustrate nu metal and bands that influenced nu metal. I don't see why adding pics is called spamming. Photos add to the reader's experience. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 01:43, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Nu Metal — Preceding unsigned comment added by GH200 ( talk • contribs) 11:45, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
Im curious to know what death metals influence on nu metal exactly had. Sepulturas Roots had a nu metal sound but clearly had death metal influences in max cavaleras vocal style (seeing as how they were a death metal band) and the same goes for Soulflys old albums. Slipknots first two albums had lots of death metal influences including growling, double bass, blast beats, and the intensity. Mudyane have influences from the genre as do Otep. I just wonder if anyone else agrees with me as none of that is discussed or mentioned in the article. 174.237.160.60 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:24, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
-- 72.251.108.204 ( talk) 10:52, 5 February 2014 (UTC)I agree. Death Metal is a big influece in Nu Metal. where do you think the downtuned guitars came from? Its Death Metal.-- 72.251.108.204 ( talk) 10:52, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
Where do you think the screamed vocals come from? Just wondering, or could this be the Groove metal influence? Groove metal was really influenced by thrash and death metal, and it influenced Nu metal.
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I want to re-add alternative rock since not all alternative metal has alternative rock elements. Alternative rock elements are often used by nu metal bands and some nu metal bands don't use elements of alternative rock (but many do. Remember I said alternative rock elements are often used by nu metal bands.) and nu metal's an alt metal subgenre so clearly not all alternative metal has alternative rock elements. Just because it is called "alternative metal", doesn't mean that it always has alternative rock elements. I think adding alternative rock to the stylistic origins is necessary. While it is true that grunge is a subgenre of alternative rock. Some nu metal bands will be a combination of metal, hip-hop and standard alternative rock. Many sources say that alternative rock is part of what made nu metal music so I think it's best to add alternative rock to the stylistic origins field. Statik N ( talk) 06:53, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
I'm surprised no one mentioned fully this whole new movement emerging from the underground "Downtempo" Metalcore scene, with bands incorporating Nü metal elements into their music, like Yüth Forever, Barrier, Gift Giver, Darke Complex (formerly Widow) or Sworn In (even though Wikipedia denies them as having anything to do with Nü metal). It deserves having a section here as there are even millions of arcticles about this movement online. No, I'm not talking about the mainstream Metalcore bands that incorporated these elements later in their carrer, like Emmure, Attila, Capture The Crown, Of Mice And Men or Bring Me The Horizon. MaggotSupremacy555 ( talk) 14:40, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
Does anyone have this book? I need to do some checking on the sources. dannymusiceditor what'd I do now? 22:24, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
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These are all book sources that I removed because we couldn't attribute them to specific artists due to us editors not owning these books. One or more of these might source Godflesh, Soundgarden, Prong, Alice in Chains, and/or Jane's Addiction. Until we can obtain these books, they will be left here. [1] [2] [3] [4] dannymusiceditor Speak up! 01:00, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
References
I'm working through the article, and while its clear that a lot of work went into the article, there's also a lot of parts that are not cited in the sources given, go off-topic, or are extremely redundant. (Oftentimes band are identified as nu metal 2 or 3 times in the same section. We get it. Limp Bizkit is nu metal, we don't need to remind the reader of this every other sentence.) Sergecross73 msg me 17:32, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Sugar Ray is a terrible image choice for the article. Yes, some sources classified them as nu metal, but their nu metal material was not influential to the genre whatsoever. None of their nu metal songs charted significantly. They had no critical or commercial recognition as a nu metal band. They only found any sort of success from their pop rock material. There are so many more nu metal bands out there that were more influential to the genre itself that should be used instead. Sergecross73 msg me 00:30, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Do we have any sources on when it declined? From what I've read in the past, it's always been early to mid 2000s. The arguments in edit summaries saying "late 2000s" don't really make sense. Like this one. Linkin Park put out a big nu metal album, Meteora, in 2003, and then their next one, Minutes to Midnight, in 2007, was not nu metal. But that doesn't mean nu metal was big until 2006/07. It means they released a big album in 2003, and then took a long time out of the public eye creating a follow up. I can't recall any major, high selling nu metal albums after 2003. Sergecross73 msg me 02:14, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
Here's an MTV article from 2003 about 2002 releases underperforming too. Sergecross73 msg me 17:09, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
This is not a good example of the prominence or endurance of the genre. This list already reading too much like a giant monotonous, robortic list of chart positions. We don't need to list so many minor ones like this. Sergecross73 msg me 03:05, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
Should they be covered in here? I don't really think so. They're only slightly more successful than Trust Company, and we agreed that they weren't really important. Completeness on the history of nu metal is not what we are going for; we're not trying to create a paraphrasing of Joel McIver's book here. What really surprises me though is that they're mentioned on some unimportant compilation as opposed to their own album, a gold record. dannymusiceditor Speak up! 03:02, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
While I appreciate Statik N's efforts to expand the article, I feel like we need to change courses here a bit. We need to start trimming back on all the charting information. It's good to document, but:
Any input from others? Sergecross73 msg me 13:51, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
I wholeheartedly agree with Sergecross73's criticism of the current structure. All this stuff about chart positions just comes off as some blatant promotion for non-notable late 90s bands. Right now this article needs the overly detailed tag, since a lot of the content is irrelevant and not aimed at a general audience. I think the Grunge article would be a good reference point in regards to structure. -- I call the big one bitey ( talk) 11:11, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
Also, there are overall way too many images on the right, and probably too many in general. There should be some on the left, and there shouldn't just be pictures of people randomly performing unless we're talking about their performance inside the article. Do not, however, confuse what I'm saying here with stuff like the OM&M picture and caption - that's a good example of the content we want to display here. dannymusiceditor Speak up! 03:45, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
I might remove some stuff from the article just so that the article isn't overly detailed. What I will do is remove bands that aren't as notable. However, if a band didn't sell many albums but they did have at least one song that went really high on the charts, then I will let them be on the article. Statik N ( talk) 17:15, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, better to leave it where I had it. It bleeds into the next section if it were any later, and it looks like it's part of the "nu metalcore" section regardless of where the markup is placed. dannymusiceditor Speak up! 00:38, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Cambalachero ( talk · contribs) 16:41, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
I still don't feel the prose is up to GA-level. There is way too much example bloating going on. So many examples are listed and sourced that you sometimes forget what's even being talked about anymore. There's still too non-notable chart position being rattled off too. Sergecross73 msg me 17:11, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
I would like to request a second opinion on this article. First, I would like an opinion about the prose from someone else. Second, I would like a second opinion on those very frequent mentions to album sales and similar stuff: is the article staying on topic (the topic is the music genre), or is it straying too much on specific details about the bands? Cambalachero ( talk) 14:52, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
The 1980s–1993: Predecessors and influences section has the following hidden note: "Please do not remove any of the bands mentioned below. If you have a problem with any bands presence here then discuss it on the talk page." This hidden note is contrary to the spirit of the editing guideline WP:Bold, which encourages editors to boldly edit pages. It appears to also be against the WP:MOS editing guidelines on "Inappropriate uses for hidden text", which say that hidden text should not be used for: [1] "*Telling others not to perform certain edits to a page, unless there is an existing guideline or policy against that edit.
We just haven't done so yet because we doesn't know where to start. I don't know everything and probably would keep some things others wouldn't, though I've trimmed some myself. What chart positions you think are worth keeping, as well as any other content you have concerns over? dannymusiceditor Speak up! 17:57, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
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@ Statik N: Of course it is exclusive, otherwise it would go against Wikipedia:INFOBOXPURPOSE. Also, on the Template:Infobox music genre, the parameter "instruments" is about the "The types of instruments that are popularly associated with that genre", not the techniques. If we are going to include all notable techniques employed by musicians on such genre, the infobox could be longer than the actual article. So we should be the most concise possible and try to summarize everything we can. The techniques employed by the vocalists are well covered in the article, citing the again on the infobox is unnecessary. Also, if all that techniques are vastly used on the genre, so none of them are notable enough to warrant a appearance on the infobox, only defining characteristics should be there. Techniques are trivial info and go against conciseness. ABC paulista ( talk) 22:02, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
The Japanese nu metal scene is notable because it never experienced the decline the western nu metal scene did as the never experienced the same over-saturation and resulting negative stigma America did, and their nu metal bands tended to be more artistically oriented. These bands are also notable for tending to incorporate metalcore into their sound long before American nu metalcore formed as a result of the nu metal revival. Maximum the Hormone and Dir En Grey are particularly notable. I think they deserve some mention, and if not Japan specifically, then some international section.
Ganondox ( talk) 00:28, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
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Could someone put the Extreme Metal template in this page? 2601:C7:C201:C640:8CD2:1D69:587A:E222 ( talk) 01:05, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
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Could someone remove the Extreme metal template? 73.54.195.214 ( talk) 16:04, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
Is there any consensus on whether there's a hyphen in the word or not? Even within the article itself, it is added or removed with no apparent consistency throughout. I understand it's a made-up word consisting of an intentional misspelling of the word "New" already, but it seems like picking one spelling and sticking to it would be better (after the introductory sentence denoting the other generally accepted spelling variations).
a lot of integral nu metal bands cite acid bath as an influence like slipknot and korn 2603:6080:A500:1397:1976:6EB7:2C90:7C2 ( talk) 07:16, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
Hip hop and Rap metal? Alternative metal and alternative rock? Also thrash metal and hardcore punk might had no influence on nu metal at all. It is obviously heavily relient on Alternative metal/alternative metal derivates. The more agressive aproach is likely explained by industrial metal, groove metal and (to a lesser extend) grunge influence. Thrash metal and hardcore punk sound nothing like a preceder of nu metal. An more apropriete list would be: Alternative metal, groove metal, rap metal, funk metal, industrial metal, grunge. Anything else seems not properly backed up, as rarely anyone plays only nu metal but instead artist that do play it tend to experiment a lot with other genres (example linking park and slipknot are both considered nu metal bands, they are very different in style however). Share you opinions? 212.114.206.193 ( talk) 23:53, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
Nu Metal bands just too the Groove Pantera was known for, and failed to add the pizzaz that came with Dimebag's guitar solos. Basically Nu Metal made it possible for average guitarist to be in the limelight, which since the 70's to be in the limelight of rockstardom you had to have guitar solos, flash, and to be huge and last you had to have originality and bring something new to the surface. In Nu Metal you didn't, you just took a little bit from one style, a little bit from another and stirred it up. It brought some great bands, and music, but it brought more forgettable bands and music than any genre ever. Stretaw ( talk) 09:50, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
A few weeks ago, the section on Nu Metal’s history where it talked about which bands influenced Nu Metal the most was randomly deleted. Since then, only a handful of bands and artists were put back on the list. I prepared a list of most, if not all, of the other artists that got deleted in case someone wanted to help fix the issue. The list has, but is not be limited to:
Alice In Chains, Biohazard, Boo-Yaa T.R.I.B.E., Fear Factory, Godflesh, Infectious Grooves, Jane’s Addiction, Metallica, Primus, Prong, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Slayer, Suicidal Tendencies, Tool, and White Zombie.
If someone could add these bands to the list, it would be very helpful and much appreciated. Thank you. 2600:1010:B12E:F997:A4B9:3C85:35FB:409B ( talk) 02:20, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
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I need help in finding a fair way to cite this. As a nu metal fan for 10 years, I KNOW that this is factual. Please do not revert this information. I would just like a way to cite it properly without causing controversy. For anybody skeptical, please listen to at least 1 nu metal song by korn or mudvayne. 70.119.203.248 ( talk) 01:41, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
This article has some serious citation overkill issues. I can only guess some serious edit-warring was going on. Always sad whenever genre warriors and their spawn have such an effect on articles. -- œ ™ 16:47, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Last time I checked nu metal's article it was a part of alt metal article. I really thought it should have its own article and now I'm happy it has. But how come now, alt metal isn't even mentioned ANY WHERE in this article? Nu metal bands (KoRn, Deftones, Mudavayne) where a part of alt metal movement (and there are sources for this). Plus, many alt metal bands where strongly influenced by nu metal (Linkin park, Evanescence, SOAD). I think Alt.metal has to be in the "Stylistic Origins" section or at least be mentioned somewhere in the article. 85.25.120.24 ( talk) 08:43, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
The article makes no mention of the decline of Nu metal in the early to mid 2000's. If anyone is willing to dig up references, I'd be happy to work with you. -- Confession0791 ( talk) 19:01, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
this article needs to be expanded —Preceding unsigned comment added by Feedmyeyes ( talk • contribs) 17:41, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
Is this a joke???? Microamigo ( talk) 11:32, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
No, he did a full nu metal album called hard to swallow, it includes songs like "Too Cold". Metalfan72 ( talk) 23:58, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
I don't think that rap metal and hip hop had anything to do with the formation of nu metal. Thought there already are some sources. Any nu metal which has rapping vocals in it, isn't already classified as pure nu metal, it's classified as nu metal/rap metal. Nu metal is some kind of a more aggressive type of alternative metal with strong elements of funk metal and grunge. That might be only my opinion, but I don't get it why do rap metal and hip hop have anything to do with nu metal. Could somebody explain that to me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ETFFAN123 ( talk • contribs) 18:08, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
Im not here to complain or something, but I was wondering why nu metal is included in the all the metal stuff when the popular opinion from most metal and non-metal fans is that it isnt metal? I mean in the same way that the dubstep article makes the distinction between dubstep and brostep and because the nu metal bands themselves even disagree on calling themselves metal. 92.7.85.226 ( talk) 02:41, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
Well if you can specifically find reliable (not user generated sites and forums like metal archives) sources saying nu metal isn't metal, then you can include it on this article or wherever you want to, but i doubt you'll find any. The opinion that nu metal isn't metal is just an opinion. The majority of reliable sources agree that it's a sub-genre of metal.
It is a subgenre of heavy metal. It may not be as 'heavy' as traditional heavy metal or thrash metal, but it is still metal. Portillo ( talk) 20:34, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
That doesn't make it metal. It's called a subgenre because it fused it with other music like grunge/rap and for having a major effect on the metal scene. It says in the article that it's a fusion genre. Although if you look at the criticism section, it does talk about its dispute over being metal or not. It's not metal. It's somewhat metal. Just a little. It's somewhat grunge and rap (unless the band uses turntables and rapping and are funky, I'll call it rap, mostly rap rock). Because it fuses it with other music, so mathematically it isn't metal. Like how you mix blue and yellow together, you get green, but green isn't blue or yellow. It's half of both. Doesn't mean I'll change the article denying it's credit as metal. But that's why I believe it isn't metal. Doesn't mean I dislike it. I think it can be good. BlastBeat4 ( talk) 00:23, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
well that's your opinion, but you need actual sources specifically saying its not metal, and they have to be by professional journalists, not some third rate metal website, which is the case most of the time regrading this issue. and none of the sources in the criticism section are really reliable, since they were added by a banned sock puppet user inforcing his personal bias regrading this genre. And in the end nu metal isn't really an actual genre, it's just a made up term created by the media and angry metalheads, it's all just Alternative metal, and if alternative metal isn't metal then bands like Tool, Faith No More. Alice in Chains and Helmet (some of which are on the metal archives) aren't metal either — Preceding unsigned comment added by I call the big one bitey ( talk • contribs)
I havent read any books on the history of metal, but I assume many of them include the alternative/nu metal scene as a part of the history. I think many people simply dont like nu metal and therefore dont like including it as a part of heavy metal. Portillo ( talk) 03:27, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Well, Thrash Metal is a combination of Hardcore Punk and the NWOBHM and that's still considered metal. UltimateLegend ( talk) 04:28, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
"Nu metal is noted for participation of women in the genre in contrast to other metal genres," it currently says under "Characteristics." I don't think that's an accurate reading of the linked Billboard article or of reality. The existence of a few female bands that can be categorized as nu metal doesn't make this genre any less male dominated than "other metal genres." It's at least as much, if not moreso. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.209.111.67 ( talk) 22:03, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Nu metal was/is just as much a sausage fest as any other metal genre save maybe symphonic/gothic metal. I say that line should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.229.220.97 ( talk) 01:43, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
I don't see more women at a Korn concert than at a Metallica concert, K? There are plenty of women at a Korn concert, but the line makes it sound like there's 5 women at an Anthrax concert and over 9000 women at a Hollywood undead concert. Take that line to an abortion clinic and abort it.
This article now has only three photos. This seems like some photos could be added. WP:Image use policy states that "Images on Wikipedia should be used in an encyclopedic manner. They should be relevant and increase readers' understanding of the subject matter. In general, images should depict the concepts described in the text of the article." I added photos which illustrate nu metal and bands that influenced nu metal. I don't see why adding pics is called spamming. Photos add to the reader's experience. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 01:43, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Nu Metal — Preceding unsigned comment added by GH200 ( talk • contribs) 11:45, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
Im curious to know what death metals influence on nu metal exactly had. Sepulturas Roots had a nu metal sound but clearly had death metal influences in max cavaleras vocal style (seeing as how they were a death metal band) and the same goes for Soulflys old albums. Slipknots first two albums had lots of death metal influences including growling, double bass, blast beats, and the intensity. Mudyane have influences from the genre as do Otep. I just wonder if anyone else agrees with me as none of that is discussed or mentioned in the article. 174.237.160.60 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:24, 14 January 2014 (UTC)
-- 72.251.108.204 ( talk) 10:52, 5 February 2014 (UTC)I agree. Death Metal is a big influece in Nu Metal. where do you think the downtuned guitars came from? Its Death Metal.-- 72.251.108.204 ( talk) 10:52, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
Where do you think the screamed vocals come from? Just wondering, or could this be the Groove metal influence? Groove metal was really influenced by thrash and death metal, and it influenced Nu metal.
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I want to re-add alternative rock since not all alternative metal has alternative rock elements. Alternative rock elements are often used by nu metal bands and some nu metal bands don't use elements of alternative rock (but many do. Remember I said alternative rock elements are often used by nu metal bands.) and nu metal's an alt metal subgenre so clearly not all alternative metal has alternative rock elements. Just because it is called "alternative metal", doesn't mean that it always has alternative rock elements. I think adding alternative rock to the stylistic origins is necessary. While it is true that grunge is a subgenre of alternative rock. Some nu metal bands will be a combination of metal, hip-hop and standard alternative rock. Many sources say that alternative rock is part of what made nu metal music so I think it's best to add alternative rock to the stylistic origins field. Statik N ( talk) 06:53, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
I'm surprised no one mentioned fully this whole new movement emerging from the underground "Downtempo" Metalcore scene, with bands incorporating Nü metal elements into their music, like Yüth Forever, Barrier, Gift Giver, Darke Complex (formerly Widow) or Sworn In (even though Wikipedia denies them as having anything to do with Nü metal). It deserves having a section here as there are even millions of arcticles about this movement online. No, I'm not talking about the mainstream Metalcore bands that incorporated these elements later in their carrer, like Emmure, Attila, Capture The Crown, Of Mice And Men or Bring Me The Horizon. MaggotSupremacy555 ( talk) 14:40, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
Does anyone have this book? I need to do some checking on the sources. dannymusiceditor what'd I do now? 22:24, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 14:01, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
These are all book sources that I removed because we couldn't attribute them to specific artists due to us editors not owning these books. One or more of these might source Godflesh, Soundgarden, Prong, Alice in Chains, and/or Jane's Addiction. Until we can obtain these books, they will be left here. [1] [2] [3] [4] dannymusiceditor Speak up! 01:00, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
References
I'm working through the article, and while its clear that a lot of work went into the article, there's also a lot of parts that are not cited in the sources given, go off-topic, or are extremely redundant. (Oftentimes band are identified as nu metal 2 or 3 times in the same section. We get it. Limp Bizkit is nu metal, we don't need to remind the reader of this every other sentence.) Sergecross73 msg me 17:32, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
Sugar Ray is a terrible image choice for the article. Yes, some sources classified them as nu metal, but their nu metal material was not influential to the genre whatsoever. None of their nu metal songs charted significantly. They had no critical or commercial recognition as a nu metal band. They only found any sort of success from their pop rock material. There are so many more nu metal bands out there that were more influential to the genre itself that should be used instead. Sergecross73 msg me 00:30, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Do we have any sources on when it declined? From what I've read in the past, it's always been early to mid 2000s. The arguments in edit summaries saying "late 2000s" don't really make sense. Like this one. Linkin Park put out a big nu metal album, Meteora, in 2003, and then their next one, Minutes to Midnight, in 2007, was not nu metal. But that doesn't mean nu metal was big until 2006/07. It means they released a big album in 2003, and then took a long time out of the public eye creating a follow up. I can't recall any major, high selling nu metal albums after 2003. Sergecross73 msg me 02:14, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
Here's an MTV article from 2003 about 2002 releases underperforming too. Sergecross73 msg me 17:09, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
This is not a good example of the prominence or endurance of the genre. This list already reading too much like a giant monotonous, robortic list of chart positions. We don't need to list so many minor ones like this. Sergecross73 msg me 03:05, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
Should they be covered in here? I don't really think so. They're only slightly more successful than Trust Company, and we agreed that they weren't really important. Completeness on the history of nu metal is not what we are going for; we're not trying to create a paraphrasing of Joel McIver's book here. What really surprises me though is that they're mentioned on some unimportant compilation as opposed to their own album, a gold record. dannymusiceditor Speak up! 03:02, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
While I appreciate Statik N's efforts to expand the article, I feel like we need to change courses here a bit. We need to start trimming back on all the charting information. It's good to document, but:
Any input from others? Sergecross73 msg me 13:51, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
I wholeheartedly agree with Sergecross73's criticism of the current structure. All this stuff about chart positions just comes off as some blatant promotion for non-notable late 90s bands. Right now this article needs the overly detailed tag, since a lot of the content is irrelevant and not aimed at a general audience. I think the Grunge article would be a good reference point in regards to structure. -- I call the big one bitey ( talk) 11:11, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
Also, there are overall way too many images on the right, and probably too many in general. There should be some on the left, and there shouldn't just be pictures of people randomly performing unless we're talking about their performance inside the article. Do not, however, confuse what I'm saying here with stuff like the OM&M picture and caption - that's a good example of the content we want to display here. dannymusiceditor Speak up! 03:45, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
I might remove some stuff from the article just so that the article isn't overly detailed. What I will do is remove bands that aren't as notable. However, if a band didn't sell many albums but they did have at least one song that went really high on the charts, then I will let them be on the article. Statik N ( talk) 17:15, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, better to leave it where I had it. It bleeds into the next section if it were any later, and it looks like it's part of the "nu metalcore" section regardless of where the markup is placed. dannymusiceditor Speak up! 00:38, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Cambalachero ( talk · contribs) 16:41, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
I still don't feel the prose is up to GA-level. There is way too much example bloating going on. So many examples are listed and sourced that you sometimes forget what's even being talked about anymore. There's still too non-notable chart position being rattled off too. Sergecross73 msg me 17:11, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
I would like to request a second opinion on this article. First, I would like an opinion about the prose from someone else. Second, I would like a second opinion on those very frequent mentions to album sales and similar stuff: is the article staying on topic (the topic is the music genre), or is it straying too much on specific details about the bands? Cambalachero ( talk) 14:52, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
The 1980s–1993: Predecessors and influences section has the following hidden note: "Please do not remove any of the bands mentioned below. If you have a problem with any bands presence here then discuss it on the talk page." This hidden note is contrary to the spirit of the editing guideline WP:Bold, which encourages editors to boldly edit pages. It appears to also be against the WP:MOS editing guidelines on "Inappropriate uses for hidden text", which say that hidden text should not be used for: [1] "*Telling others not to perform certain edits to a page, unless there is an existing guideline or policy against that edit.
We just haven't done so yet because we doesn't know where to start. I don't know everything and probably would keep some things others wouldn't, though I've trimmed some myself. What chart positions you think are worth keeping, as well as any other content you have concerns over? dannymusiceditor Speak up! 17:57, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
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@ Statik N: Of course it is exclusive, otherwise it would go against Wikipedia:INFOBOXPURPOSE. Also, on the Template:Infobox music genre, the parameter "instruments" is about the "The types of instruments that are popularly associated with that genre", not the techniques. If we are going to include all notable techniques employed by musicians on such genre, the infobox could be longer than the actual article. So we should be the most concise possible and try to summarize everything we can. The techniques employed by the vocalists are well covered in the article, citing the again on the infobox is unnecessary. Also, if all that techniques are vastly used on the genre, so none of them are notable enough to warrant a appearance on the infobox, only defining characteristics should be there. Techniques are trivial info and go against conciseness. ABC paulista ( talk) 22:02, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
The Japanese nu metal scene is notable because it never experienced the decline the western nu metal scene did as the never experienced the same over-saturation and resulting negative stigma America did, and their nu metal bands tended to be more artistically oriented. These bands are also notable for tending to incorporate metalcore into their sound long before American nu metalcore formed as a result of the nu metal revival. Maximum the Hormone and Dir En Grey are particularly notable. I think they deserve some mention, and if not Japan specifically, then some international section.
Ganondox ( talk) 00:28, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
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Could someone put the Extreme Metal template in this page? 2601:C7:C201:C640:8CD2:1D69:587A:E222 ( talk) 01:05, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
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Could someone remove the Extreme metal template? 73.54.195.214 ( talk) 16:04, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
Is there any consensus on whether there's a hyphen in the word or not? Even within the article itself, it is added or removed with no apparent consistency throughout. I understand it's a made-up word consisting of an intentional misspelling of the word "New" already, but it seems like picking one spelling and sticking to it would be better (after the introductory sentence denoting the other generally accepted spelling variations).
a lot of integral nu metal bands cite acid bath as an influence like slipknot and korn 2603:6080:A500:1397:1976:6EB7:2C90:7C2 ( talk) 07:16, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
Hip hop and Rap metal? Alternative metal and alternative rock? Also thrash metal and hardcore punk might had no influence on nu metal at all. It is obviously heavily relient on Alternative metal/alternative metal derivates. The more agressive aproach is likely explained by industrial metal, groove metal and (to a lesser extend) grunge influence. Thrash metal and hardcore punk sound nothing like a preceder of nu metal. An more apropriete list would be: Alternative metal, groove metal, rap metal, funk metal, industrial metal, grunge. Anything else seems not properly backed up, as rarely anyone plays only nu metal but instead artist that do play it tend to experiment a lot with other genres (example linking park and slipknot are both considered nu metal bands, they are very different in style however). Share you opinions? 212.114.206.193 ( talk) 23:53, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
Nu Metal bands just too the Groove Pantera was known for, and failed to add the pizzaz that came with Dimebag's guitar solos. Basically Nu Metal made it possible for average guitarist to be in the limelight, which since the 70's to be in the limelight of rockstardom you had to have guitar solos, flash, and to be huge and last you had to have originality and bring something new to the surface. In Nu Metal you didn't, you just took a little bit from one style, a little bit from another and stirred it up. It brought some great bands, and music, but it brought more forgettable bands and music than any genre ever. Stretaw ( talk) 09:50, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
A few weeks ago, the section on Nu Metal’s history where it talked about which bands influenced Nu Metal the most was randomly deleted. Since then, only a handful of bands and artists were put back on the list. I prepared a list of most, if not all, of the other artists that got deleted in case someone wanted to help fix the issue. The list has, but is not be limited to:
Alice In Chains, Biohazard, Boo-Yaa T.R.I.B.E., Fear Factory, Godflesh, Infectious Grooves, Jane’s Addiction, Metallica, Primus, Prong, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Slayer, Suicidal Tendencies, Tool, and White Zombie.
If someone could add these bands to the list, it would be very helpful and much appreciated. Thank you. 2600:1010:B12E:F997:A4B9:3C85:35FB:409B ( talk) 02:20, 19 September 2023 (UTC)