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You guys ruined it, I'm reversing all edits.-- 75.139.105.45 ( talk) 23:21, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
I agree, turning it into a stub isnt going to help with anything. Portillo ( talk) 22:41, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
"Nu metal initially began with the band Korn."
This should be rewritten. Saying that a genre "initially began" does not sound encyclopedic. It sounds like an opinion. Shouldn't it point to a band or album that critics generally feel was the first in the genre?
Also, does citation number 7 cover the entire block of text, or just the part about bands being influenced by Black Sabbath and traditional heavy metal? ( Sugar Bear ( talk) 21:04, 24 March 2010 (UTC))
Another question: Does the photograph of the members of Korn really enhance the readers' understanding of the subject? They are not playing any instruments in the photo, and there's nothing in the photo that supports the text, other than them being one of the bands discussed. If someone wanted to see what the bands' faces looked like, they could read that article, considering that this is a discussion of a musical genre, not a band. ( Sugar Bear ( talk) 20:28, 27 March 2010 (UTC))
The alternative metal article also has alot of unsourced stuff, why isnt it removed too? Portillo ( talk) 04:15, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
As long as its unsourced, i dont see why it cant be removed. Portillo ( talk) 08:01, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Nu metal isn't popular anymore. Why does the info box say it currently has "mainstream popularity"? This was a fad from 1999 until about 2002, when we cared about sitting next to Carson Daley and Fred Durst to see them argue over which one of them Christina Aguilera gave head to first. The teens and 20-somethings who put bands "on the charts" were too young to get nu metal when they were just 10 years old or younger. Lothar76 ( talk) 16:27, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
That is a good point, several Nu-Metal bands (KoRn, Papa Roach, Linkin Park)'s newer music can't be considered Nu Metal, and even ones like Slipknot have changed their style partly away from Nu-Metal, but exactly when did it's popularity die?
Whats with all this talk about how Korn is a "great" band its misleading. Yawaraey ( talk) 00:46, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Is this actually stated in Ian Christie's book? If not, is there another reliable source that can be used to back this statement up? ( Sugar Bear ( talk) 01:56, 14 May 2010 (UTC))
You're bound to be able to find something with a few google searches.
The hip-hop bit, particularly the use of DJs.
Grunge though? No, that bit, not a common comment( The Elfoid ( talk) 03:29, 15 May 2010 (UTC))
Sugar Bear, why do you keep pulling sourced content from this article? It seemed like valid information about the genre to me, and half a dozen other people editing the page had no issues with it. Torchiest ( talk | contribs) 20:40, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Stop ruining this article Sugar Bear. Portillo ( talk) 01:51, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Also, several things are not backed up by the citations added by Portillo:
All those issues can be fixed. What im trying to do is make the article neat and tidy; not with one-off sentences and ugly paragraphs. Portillo ( talk) 08:02, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Again, problems that can be fixed. This for example, is one of the ugliest paragraphs ive ever seen on Wikipedia.
"Bands associated with nu metal derive influence from a variety of diverse styles, including electronica, funk, glam rock, gothic rock, grunge, hardcore punk, hip hop, industrial rock and jazz. While electric guitar plays a strong part in the sound of nu metal bands, turntables, sequencers and samplers also play an important part in the sound. Many nu metal bands use seven-string guitars, which are sometimes down-tuned to increase heaviness, resulting in bass guitarists using five and six-string instruments."
And i changed the intro because it doesnt give readers sufficient information, for example many ppl think that nu metal was a fad, hence its important to note when it was popular and that some metal fans didnt like it. Portillo ( talk) 06:56, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
k, what i want to know is, where did the article go? there is no info on Nu metal's appearance in recent years, the stylistic origins and most of the rest of the infobox are gone, and lots of content has been removed. Alten hofen 04:04, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
There are two major books used as cites for this article, and they could be used to build a pretty sizable and informative article, yet content continues to be removed. If there are incorrect citations, or wrong statements, let's correct them rather than just delete them, and build the article up again. Torchiest talk/ contribs 21:55, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
We shouldn't add content for the sake of adding content. A lot of unsourced content is not going to be particularly helpful for anyone. ( Sugar Bear ( talk) 22:10, 18 May 2010 (UTC))
Now thats a nu metal article. Portillo ( talk) 12:53, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
We're looking at books on the subject of music, and particularly this genre, as reliable sources. Student term papers and magazines shouldn't be used to source elements of a musical genre. The writers of the cited sources have to have knowledge in music. ( Sugar Bear ( talk) 20:04, 15 May 2010 (UTC))
Material such as an article or research paper that has been vetted by the scholarly community is regarded as reliable. If the material has been published in reputable peer-reviewed sources or by well-regarded academic presses, generally it has been at least preliminarily vetted by one or more other scholars.
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 |
You guys ruined it, I'm reversing all edits.-- 75.139.105.45 ( talk) 23:21, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
I agree, turning it into a stub isnt going to help with anything. Portillo ( talk) 22:41, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
"Nu metal initially began with the band Korn."
This should be rewritten. Saying that a genre "initially began" does not sound encyclopedic. It sounds like an opinion. Shouldn't it point to a band or album that critics generally feel was the first in the genre?
Also, does citation number 7 cover the entire block of text, or just the part about bands being influenced by Black Sabbath and traditional heavy metal? ( Sugar Bear ( talk) 21:04, 24 March 2010 (UTC))
Another question: Does the photograph of the members of Korn really enhance the readers' understanding of the subject? They are not playing any instruments in the photo, and there's nothing in the photo that supports the text, other than them being one of the bands discussed. If someone wanted to see what the bands' faces looked like, they could read that article, considering that this is a discussion of a musical genre, not a band. ( Sugar Bear ( talk) 20:28, 27 March 2010 (UTC))
The alternative metal article also has alot of unsourced stuff, why isnt it removed too? Portillo ( talk) 04:15, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
As long as its unsourced, i dont see why it cant be removed. Portillo ( talk) 08:01, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Nu metal isn't popular anymore. Why does the info box say it currently has "mainstream popularity"? This was a fad from 1999 until about 2002, when we cared about sitting next to Carson Daley and Fred Durst to see them argue over which one of them Christina Aguilera gave head to first. The teens and 20-somethings who put bands "on the charts" were too young to get nu metal when they were just 10 years old or younger. Lothar76 ( talk) 16:27, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
That is a good point, several Nu-Metal bands (KoRn, Papa Roach, Linkin Park)'s newer music can't be considered Nu Metal, and even ones like Slipknot have changed their style partly away from Nu-Metal, but exactly when did it's popularity die?
Whats with all this talk about how Korn is a "great" band its misleading. Yawaraey ( talk) 00:46, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Is this actually stated in Ian Christie's book? If not, is there another reliable source that can be used to back this statement up? ( Sugar Bear ( talk) 01:56, 14 May 2010 (UTC))
You're bound to be able to find something with a few google searches.
The hip-hop bit, particularly the use of DJs.
Grunge though? No, that bit, not a common comment( The Elfoid ( talk) 03:29, 15 May 2010 (UTC))
Sugar Bear, why do you keep pulling sourced content from this article? It seemed like valid information about the genre to me, and half a dozen other people editing the page had no issues with it. Torchiest ( talk | contribs) 20:40, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Stop ruining this article Sugar Bear. Portillo ( talk) 01:51, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Also, several things are not backed up by the citations added by Portillo:
All those issues can be fixed. What im trying to do is make the article neat and tidy; not with one-off sentences and ugly paragraphs. Portillo ( talk) 08:02, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Again, problems that can be fixed. This for example, is one of the ugliest paragraphs ive ever seen on Wikipedia.
"Bands associated with nu metal derive influence from a variety of diverse styles, including electronica, funk, glam rock, gothic rock, grunge, hardcore punk, hip hop, industrial rock and jazz. While electric guitar plays a strong part in the sound of nu metal bands, turntables, sequencers and samplers also play an important part in the sound. Many nu metal bands use seven-string guitars, which are sometimes down-tuned to increase heaviness, resulting in bass guitarists using five and six-string instruments."
And i changed the intro because it doesnt give readers sufficient information, for example many ppl think that nu metal was a fad, hence its important to note when it was popular and that some metal fans didnt like it. Portillo ( talk) 06:56, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
k, what i want to know is, where did the article go? there is no info on Nu metal's appearance in recent years, the stylistic origins and most of the rest of the infobox are gone, and lots of content has been removed. Alten hofen 04:04, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
There are two major books used as cites for this article, and they could be used to build a pretty sizable and informative article, yet content continues to be removed. If there are incorrect citations, or wrong statements, let's correct them rather than just delete them, and build the article up again. Torchiest talk/ contribs 21:55, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
We shouldn't add content for the sake of adding content. A lot of unsourced content is not going to be particularly helpful for anyone. ( Sugar Bear ( talk) 22:10, 18 May 2010 (UTC))
Now thats a nu metal article. Portillo ( talk) 12:53, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
We're looking at books on the subject of music, and particularly this genre, as reliable sources. Student term papers and magazines shouldn't be used to source elements of a musical genre. The writers of the cited sources have to have knowledge in music. ( Sugar Bear ( talk) 20:04, 15 May 2010 (UTC))
Material such as an article or research paper that has been vetted by the scholarly community is regarded as reliable. If the material has been published in reputable peer-reviewed sources or by well-regarded academic presses, generally it has been at least preliminarily vetted by one or more other scholars.