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The article states that the arguments of this thinktank draw from fascism - how about presenting these arguments and letting the reader judge whether they are fascist or not? This is hardly NPOV, and seeing as the article contains nothing about the actual viewpoints of the group, it's quite bad. I'm not French, I don't have any resources to contribute to this article with, but it needs help. Joffeloff 15:20, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I assume you know the difference, or not? The citation you provide are not about Buchanan, and not about the Nouvelle Droite and New Right discussed in this article. So they do not provide any reference at all! Intangible 21:14, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
<------This is the English Language Wikipedia. There is already a page on the generic term New Right, which talks about the various manifestations around the world. In English, the phrase "Nouvelle Droite" refers specifically to the French movement, or at best the European New Right--generally exluding the movements in England and the United States. -- Cberlet 22:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
<------In the United States--as opposed to the European New Right--Cultural Conservatism is overwhelmingly a project of the Christian Right. How can you continue to cling to one source--which you misunderstand--in the face of the quote from de Benoist (the intellectual founder of the European New Right) that there is no connection between the European New Right and the New Right in the United States? In the United States, many Protestants and Catholics work together through the Christian Right wing of the New Right coalition. I do not agree that we should not cite the actual source of the quote by de Benoist. Please do not mistranslate Minkenberg, who refers above to the "New Radical Right," a term that is often used to describe post-WWII movements of the radical right--an overarching generic term that is not synonymous with but includes the European New Right and the New Right in the United States. Your comments here reflect that you have studied only the tiniest sliver of this area of research, yet you aggressively defend your edits and delete new material that challenges you POV. This is neither cooperative nor constructive editing. Note that I found and added the only concrete text about the Nouvelle Droite from de Benoist. -- Cberlet 14:49, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
<------The Minkenberg cite is still on the entry page--as are the multiple refutations of it.-- Cberlet 17:33, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
<----From Minkenberg (2000, p. 178): "There are new groups of the radical right which try to influence public debate and the minds of people rather than voting behaviour. These groups—think tanks, intellectual circles, political entrepreneurs—are summarized as the New Right in the literature. In the United States, they include organizations led or founded by Paul Weyrich, such as the Free Congress Foundations and the Institute for Cultural Conservatives. In Europe the most prominent groups are the French Nouvelle Droite groups Club de l'Horloge and especially GRECE, led by philosopher Alain de Benoist, the German Neue Rechte, inspired by the the French counterpart but als by the Weimar Conservative Revolution, and the Italian Nouva Destra." This is written in English, the language the author used, and is a refereed article in a scholarly journal. Your arguments are all Original Research. I provided a direct cite for the article's definition here [1], afterwards you tried to change the introduction without using the talk page first. That is dishonest. I cannot see how you can rebut this 2000 journal article with a 1996 book, without invoking Original Research.
Let's both back off a few days and see what other editors have to say.-- Cberlet 19:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Actually, RfA filed here. Keep it on Intangible! Do I need to point out to you that the French Wikipedia includes without any problem the Nouvelle Droite in the fr:Catégorie:Extrême droite française? Well, I do so, but not for you, who should be aware of that. Tazmaniacs 14:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't want to paste up a bunch of <citation needed> tags all over this, but can we get some legitimate references here? On whose authority are these claims being made? "Some proponents"? Who? How many? And have any scholars researched this "philosophical background" and come to these conclusions? Is Logghe on record as promoting "Integral Traditionalism"? I'm not doubting anyone's intentions, but I do think some tangible evidence needs to be provided. Aryaman (☼) 00:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
I added the tags, as I'm hoping someone can verify this information. I can't personally, but I assume the original author can. In particular, I think we need to see some hard proof connecting Nouvelle Droite with paganism proper - not simply using the term as a catch-all for explicitly non-Christian orientations. Further, some educated differentiation would be a welcome addition here. I'd like to see what the author can dig up in the way of citable facts first and then work out the phrasing. Aryaman (☼) 17:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Why is this article connected to the "WikiProject Fascism" when the Nouvelle Droite rejects fascism and totalitarian governments due to their centralizing and imposing forces, which destroy organic communities and signify civilizational decadence? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.243.181.177 ( talk) 21:42, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
The Traditionalism article, being concerned with a philosophical/religious movement, has only a tangential relation to this one. An in-paragraph ref. would be warranted, but the redirection at the beginning of the Ideology section is misleading. I will wait a week in case there are objections, and then make a change. MT Editor ( talk) 14:18, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:22, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:22, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
I noticed there are similar pages under both the French and German terminology?
Some link, and others do not link, to the different ( english, french, etc ) pages on the same topic.
For example
and this apparently more complete page, which in turn doesn't have a link to an equivalent German page? - yet there is such a page under another equivalent german term which has its own english page, despite it being the same topic? They do seem to be the same topic? ... "oder habe ich es nicht richtig verstanden?" ;)
/info/en/?search=Nouvelle_Droite
On the french page ( https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouvelle_Droite) , it is explained that there are various splinters of the movement that each have their respective distinctive characteristics? In such case, perhaps it might require a page that enables such overview ( although there are broad categories that bring them together ), and an understanding of how movements and political parties relate to such ideas in various countries/regions? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:1811:5379:2200:20AD:1F98:87BB:2EDF ( talk) 20:32, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Nouvelle Droite article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The article states that the arguments of this thinktank draw from fascism - how about presenting these arguments and letting the reader judge whether they are fascist or not? This is hardly NPOV, and seeing as the article contains nothing about the actual viewpoints of the group, it's quite bad. I'm not French, I don't have any resources to contribute to this article with, but it needs help. Joffeloff 15:20, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I assume you know the difference, or not? The citation you provide are not about Buchanan, and not about the Nouvelle Droite and New Right discussed in this article. So they do not provide any reference at all! Intangible 21:14, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
<------This is the English Language Wikipedia. There is already a page on the generic term New Right, which talks about the various manifestations around the world. In English, the phrase "Nouvelle Droite" refers specifically to the French movement, or at best the European New Right--generally exluding the movements in England and the United States. -- Cberlet 22:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
<------In the United States--as opposed to the European New Right--Cultural Conservatism is overwhelmingly a project of the Christian Right. How can you continue to cling to one source--which you misunderstand--in the face of the quote from de Benoist (the intellectual founder of the European New Right) that there is no connection between the European New Right and the New Right in the United States? In the United States, many Protestants and Catholics work together through the Christian Right wing of the New Right coalition. I do not agree that we should not cite the actual source of the quote by de Benoist. Please do not mistranslate Minkenberg, who refers above to the "New Radical Right," a term that is often used to describe post-WWII movements of the radical right--an overarching generic term that is not synonymous with but includes the European New Right and the New Right in the United States. Your comments here reflect that you have studied only the tiniest sliver of this area of research, yet you aggressively defend your edits and delete new material that challenges you POV. This is neither cooperative nor constructive editing. Note that I found and added the only concrete text about the Nouvelle Droite from de Benoist. -- Cberlet 14:49, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
<------The Minkenberg cite is still on the entry page--as are the multiple refutations of it.-- Cberlet 17:33, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
<----From Minkenberg (2000, p. 178): "There are new groups of the radical right which try to influence public debate and the minds of people rather than voting behaviour. These groups—think tanks, intellectual circles, political entrepreneurs—are summarized as the New Right in the literature. In the United States, they include organizations led or founded by Paul Weyrich, such as the Free Congress Foundations and the Institute for Cultural Conservatives. In Europe the most prominent groups are the French Nouvelle Droite groups Club de l'Horloge and especially GRECE, led by philosopher Alain de Benoist, the German Neue Rechte, inspired by the the French counterpart but als by the Weimar Conservative Revolution, and the Italian Nouva Destra." This is written in English, the language the author used, and is a refereed article in a scholarly journal. Your arguments are all Original Research. I provided a direct cite for the article's definition here [1], afterwards you tried to change the introduction without using the talk page first. That is dishonest. I cannot see how you can rebut this 2000 journal article with a 1996 book, without invoking Original Research.
Let's both back off a few days and see what other editors have to say.-- Cberlet 19:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Actually, RfA filed here. Keep it on Intangible! Do I need to point out to you that the French Wikipedia includes without any problem the Nouvelle Droite in the fr:Catégorie:Extrême droite française? Well, I do so, but not for you, who should be aware of that. Tazmaniacs 14:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't want to paste up a bunch of <citation needed> tags all over this, but can we get some legitimate references here? On whose authority are these claims being made? "Some proponents"? Who? How many? And have any scholars researched this "philosophical background" and come to these conclusions? Is Logghe on record as promoting "Integral Traditionalism"? I'm not doubting anyone's intentions, but I do think some tangible evidence needs to be provided. Aryaman (☼) 00:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
I added the tags, as I'm hoping someone can verify this information. I can't personally, but I assume the original author can. In particular, I think we need to see some hard proof connecting Nouvelle Droite with paganism proper - not simply using the term as a catch-all for explicitly non-Christian orientations. Further, some educated differentiation would be a welcome addition here. I'd like to see what the author can dig up in the way of citable facts first and then work out the phrasing. Aryaman (☼) 17:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Why is this article connected to the "WikiProject Fascism" when the Nouvelle Droite rejects fascism and totalitarian governments due to their centralizing and imposing forces, which destroy organic communities and signify civilizational decadence? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.243.181.177 ( talk) 21:42, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
The Traditionalism article, being concerned with a philosophical/religious movement, has only a tangential relation to this one. An in-paragraph ref. would be warranted, but the redirection at the beginning of the Ideology section is misleading. I will wait a week in case there are objections, and then make a change. MT Editor ( talk) 14:18, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:22, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:22, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
I noticed there are similar pages under both the French and German terminology?
Some link, and others do not link, to the different ( english, french, etc ) pages on the same topic.
For example
and this apparently more complete page, which in turn doesn't have a link to an equivalent German page? - yet there is such a page under another equivalent german term which has its own english page, despite it being the same topic? They do seem to be the same topic? ... "oder habe ich es nicht richtig verstanden?" ;)
/info/en/?search=Nouvelle_Droite
On the french page ( https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouvelle_Droite) , it is explained that there are various splinters of the movement that each have their respective distinctive characteristics? In such case, perhaps it might require a page that enables such overview ( although there are broad categories that bring them together ), and an understanding of how movements and political parties relate to such ideas in various countries/regions? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:1811:5379:2200:20AD:1F98:87BB:2EDF ( talk) 20:32, 1 September 2020 (UTC)