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This article is definitely not NPOV, it is an outright bash against Norton AV. It would be similar to me doing an article on Bush and just putting in: Current president of the United States. Many Americans think he's a moron.
In addition to this, the article fails to:
From the entry as it stands: Despite its widespread adoption, it carries a reputation within the computer enthusiast community as slow and inefficient. It is also notorious for being almost impossible to completely uninstall. Some ignorant but well-meaning editor will probably come along and "clean this up" or "NPOV" it before too long, which is unfortunate, as it is entirely to the point. I have worked with computers on a professional basis for over 20 years, and we deal with (among other programs) NAV on a daily basis. It really is slow (compare with, for example, VET or Trend Micro IS) and horribly cumbersome to configure. It really is inefficient - every week we get machines come in for repair that are infected with viruses despite having NAV installed and (in most cases) fully up-to-date. I have no idea why NAV misses so many viruses (including well-known old ones that you'd expect any AV package to deal with competently) but there is not the slightest doubt that it is the least effective of the common AV programs. (Possibly because it is so common: I suspect that virus writers target NAV first when they are disabling AV software simply because it is the market leader.) Whatever the reason, there is no doubt of the consequence.
As for removal, this is a serious problem. The uninstall feature sometimes works OK, sometimes doesn't. Uninstall is possible roughly 2 times out of 3. If it won't uninstall, then you have to do it by hand, and that is a horribly time-consuming task requiring manual deletion of lots of different files and an exhaustive search through the registry with many edits. It is beyond the capacity of most average computer users.
In short, the entry as it stands is much too short, but perfectly accurate. Tannin 20:51, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The article doesn't say what it IS. I mean, it's a computer product, obviously, but if someone came here without knowing what NAV does, would they be enlightened? Joyous 23:18, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)
What is Norton Ghost?
Has this page ever mentioned the general hacker/cracker opinion of Norton? Most such people (so called "white-hat" and "black-hat" alike) consider Norton a joke. There are even t-shirts, "not even norton can protect you now." (no caps)
ZelmersZoetrop
Really? Can you link to the picture or add it to the section of the article about the criticism of NAV? Oh yeah btw if someone goes on http://pack.google.com you can get NAV for free with a 6 month subscription. Clearly, Symantec is getting more despreate... --__-- The pointer outer 23:18, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
I am considering a removal of the section critizing Norton Anti-Virus. It is not neutral in POV and its removal should strongly be considered. IMO, Norton is the best antivirus sofware, no matter what anyone says. Andros 1337 17:37, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
There is a correction needed in this article. there are actually 3 products that get a update on a daily basis. they are Symantec AntiVirus Corporate Edition 10.0x, Norton AntiVirus 2006, and Norton Internet Security 2006. However, all other products are provided every wednesday,(except when there is a serious virus outbreak, which in the terms of Norton is NEVER) making Norton Antivirus the worst antivirus program around. Also, as mentioned, Norton antivirus and Symantec antivirus are the same. I am considering changing it so it would show "Norton(Symantec) Antivirus" Name fix please! The pointer outer 02:44, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Norton Antivirus should be classified as a virus. Look at the evidence in the article:
HappyVR 14:59, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
"should be classified as a virus" - I completely agree.
I work with virus-laden computers daily. Many have NAV installed, and still got infected. The only worse protection is that provided by AOL. Norton is buggy, difficult to uninstall, and subscription extensions are iffy at best. Peter Norton would be ashamed at what Symantec has done to his name.
If you choose not to update your subscription, after 90 days you get a pop-up reminder which is (a) always on top and (b) won't go away. If you contact Symantec customer service, they acknowledge this as "a design feature" and a "friendly reminder". This occurs despite deselecting the alerts box under Options. They also freely acknowledge that the only way to get rid of this pop-up, which effectively disables your computer by permanently obscuring nearly 1/4 of the screen, is to pay Symantec further money to upgrade or update subscription, or to uninstall software one has purchased the full rights to use.
Information at Symantec's knowledge base confirms this, listing ways to get rid of the box, all of which require exchange of money. This can be found at - Symantec Knowledge Base
This is menace-ware and should be stopped, or at least publicised. DividedSelf 14:34, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
It automatically gets the latest Intelligent Updater (read: daily updates) and installs it, regardless of subscription status.
The application has been updated 22 May 2006 to be nearly silent (no pop-up window for IU) and potentially faster than LiveUpdate.
Crythias 03:18, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
someone put this topic as controversial, but did not explain why. The function of the talk pages are for this purpose. what's the controversy? The pointer outer 21:27, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
o nvm T_T The pointer outer 21:41, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
This article takes a very negative look at Norton AV, and doesn't talk much about its technical aspects. I am not one to defend Norton AV, but this article is certainly in need of a revamp. :: Colin Keigher 09:15, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Before I go further I'd like to state for the record that I have major bias when it comes to Symantec Corporation. I frankly find them as "evil" as many do Microsoft. I could go on for 10 paragraphs on the subject but it's not a appropriate here.
I've stopped using Symantec products and wouldn't use them again even if they were given to me for free.
So now that you know that I feel that Symantec sucks (to put it mildly) let me comment on this article.
This article needs to be thrown-out and redone from scratch. It's a mess. It's inappropriate for an encyclopedia. To say it doesn't have a "neutral point of view" is a gross understament.
It's a Norton bash-fest! 3/4 of it is nothing but criicism of the product. There are plenty of articles on Wikipedia that include some criticisim surrounding the topic of the article, but they put it under a "criticism" heading near the end and it doesn't dominate the article.
This is one of the most inappropriate and biased Wikipedia articles I've come across in recent times.
There's no question that this article doesn't have a NPOV.
And criticism aside, I don't consider Norton AntiVirus to be Symantec's "Flagship" product. The first (Peter) Norton product was Norton Utilities back in the DOS days. The current version is now part of Norton Systemworks. Norton Systemworks also includes Norton Antivirus. Therefore it seems to me that Norton SystemWorks is more of a "flagship" product than Norton AntiVirus.
-- angrykeyboarder (a/k/a:Scott) 05:13, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
I do not understand how the comment is biased at all because it actually states the truth. Norton AntiVirus does have the reputation of being a resource intensive utility, even when running in the background. It actually has a 13% impact on a system's performance. In all of my years using the program I have only seen about two or three occasions where NAV actually removes a virus.
This article criticizes NAV extensivly. It is important to have this section in the article to insure that this information is told to others. However, it should not equal more than half of it. It should be brought down to 15% of the article or less. I agree that NAV is flawed, but the article should not speak excessivly of that. More information about the product will be necessary to make this poorly written article as neutral as it needs to be.
~ Wow, this article is really exaggerating the flaws of NAV, even of those present in other anti-virus softwares. The FBI/CIA dispute is linked to many other anti-virus companies whom have also pledged to not detect it. The so-called ineffectual customer service section in the article. So, the paragraph supports this by talking about a flaw in the programming?? and then cite references to the symantec support site which says what the solution is and then cites a reference to a relatively short thread in a forum of two users talking about how they had a bad experience with symantec. right, so with that, it proves that theres is bad customer service and that the software has a non-existent flaw. The Firewall & Alerts section is not really a fair argument since it is true that the windows firewall and Norton anti-virus will conflict and therefore one has to be deactivated. The fact that the user has disabled the windows firewall and forgets to re-enable it after their free trial has expired sounds more like whining than a supported criticism. And finally with that opening statement in Resource usage, the fact that its not supported at all and sounds like an opinion than any Symantec basher could say, i would really like to see sources backing this up. Otherwise, its just speculation based on everyone's opinions and experience. It's true that the Criticisms section does not have a NPOV. It is not a matter of fact that there are so many things wrong with NAV. Many things were clearly exaggerated and unsupported. Proper citations are definitely needed.
"The neutrality of this section is disputed." This is exactly what to expect in a section named "Criticisms". The section is a place for negitive comments. To neutralize the entire article, this section needs to be smaller and other sections enlarged.
I'm surprised that there's no mention of the complete ludicracy of trying to Norton trying to sell AntiVirus software for OS X, which when I heard last had just 2 very harmless viruses. It would be interesting if someone could research the thinking behind Norton doing this.
I've used NAV before and all I can say is it is useless and that can actually infect your system rather than benefit it. I've tested it before on items I KNOW are absolute viruses, trojans, etc and it registers them as not being a threat. I updated them to see if it would make a difference and it does not. I've tested it on UCM, UCRPM, CRMP, and a few other things including a worm, a trojan, and a system virus. Same results. Not detected. I feel that it's often useless detection features should be included. -VonV
I must, say, you are completley right. Having used NAV before, it actually did more harm than good. For example, who would have known that Mozilla Firefox was "theifware"? After that, I uninstaled it, but couldn't. SO I had to go to regedit, manually delete everysingle key, and delete every single folder the damn thing created. IT's also the only security company I know who actually gives instructions to manually uninstall the thing, but they really couldn't make a batch file to run in safe mode that could! The pointer outer 03:11, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Screw Norton Anti-Bandwidth. Stupid program hogging tons of memory to sit around and do nothing but tell you to update and renew your subscription. I've taken this off many computers and added nod-32 and problem solved. Well almost. Norton creates so many remnants of itself throughout the computer that often times you have to back up precious data and re-format, its rooted in that deep.
I would like to whole heartedly thank the author for putting into writing my own strong feelings towards Norton Antivirus (and also the current crop of McAfee AV products). I can't remember what lead me to search Norton Antivirus on wikipedia, but to say I felt a warm fuzzy feeling upon reading the article would be a huge understatement. Thank you.
Regarding uninstallation, I keep a link to the Symantec Norton Removal Tool (SymNRT.exe) at the top of my personal 'website' (my list of things not to forget - at http://www2.css-networks.com)
The NPOV tag that was removed has been readded due to what the user had pointed out...
However, I do know that there should be a section devoted to the pros
Until that section is added and some balance is added to the existing section, the NPOV tag should stay on. :: Colin Keigher 04:50, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
This article is NPOV because the article is almost entirely devoted to how awful the product is. There is a two sentence history and then the rest of the article talks about how awful the program is. On top of this there is no sources and most of it is written as heresy and opinion. Phrases like "it carries a reputation within parts of the computer enthusiast community as being slow and inefficient", "Users experiencing the bug report being offered multiple ineffective labor-intensive attempts to work around the problem", and "the problem was caused by Symantec's buggy code " are obviously NPOV and just the opinion of the writer. Until a valid source (not two people complaining on a message board) is used the article will be NPOV. I moved the NPOV tag and added a source tag to the top of the article. Dominic 19:52, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
A consensus must first be reached on how this shall be done, but it could be easier by brainstorming some topics and ideas for the fresh-from-start article of Norton AntiVirus.
A decent amount of non-biased history about the life-span of NAV.
A section describing it's possibilities (features), NOT only what's unique with NAV.
An acceptable amount of criticism, cause and effects, FULLY SOURCED. However, until that occurs, this controversial section should be deleted or left blank until such time vs. subjecting the world to unsourced opinions and flames as we wait...
The future of NAV, upcoming versions, news and interesting facts people would be find rewarding to know about.
<c o n t i n u e d....>
Shandris
the
azylean
20:06, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Removed it as the first two have nothing to do with Norton, but are to do with the company (and the FBI/CIA thing is not Symantec-exclusive). The last one refers to Symantec Antivirus Corporate Edition (this article is about the product named Norton Antivirus, look at the title). The section titled "Slow Response to viruses" is the ONLY thing that vaguely resembles a valid criticism, but needs reworking. Criticisms should be discussed here first, confined to valid points and kept short. Again, see What Is A Good Article for more info. Smoothy 12:08, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
I work in PC tech support. At a rough guess, 60% of those who contact me, need assistance due to the way that Norton products have afflicted their machine.
The most common complaints I receive:
- Customer's PC has slowed down to a crawl. Almost always due to Norton Antivirus. - Customer's PC has lost network connectivity, or has developed other minor faults. Almost always due to Norton Internet Security. - Customer has bought another antivirus product which will not function until Norton Antivirus is removed, and Norton Antivirus will not remove itself.
This article is by no means biased. It is telling the truth. -- Intimidated talk 18:44, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be a revert war between User:Smoothy and lots of other people. This is unfortunate, as most people here seem to want the criticism section to stay. However, I will agree that a "pro" section is necessary, one based on professional reviews, most of which seem to be positive (especially with regards to the user interface). Also, the criticisms section is incomplete, as many issues are unaddressed due to lack of citations, likely because neither product criticism/bashing nor long-term usage is a forte of commercial magazines. Here are some of the issues that NAV allegedly has that are not mentioned in the current article:
Any sourced mention of these would greatly improve the article, even though they would enrage those who seem to think that a sizeable "criticisms" section is, by definition, POV. Reasonable people should not confuse a neutral point of view with a misinterpreted concept of equal time (in which the opportunity for access becomes the "necessity" of a differing viewpoint). Calbaer 22:48, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
The criticisms section appears to be adequately sourced and topical. I recommend moving it toward the bottom part of the article. Durova 22:24, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
It certainly seems on-topic. For the FBI/CIA sub-section's sources, I have commented out the link to http://www.sfbg.com/News/36/12/prof.html, wince this is currently a 404 error, and I have replaced the link to Slashdot with the article at The Register that Slashdot was linking to. -- AJR | Talk 00:50, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Criticisms seem on topic and sourced. Its not violating NPOV to include criticisms. -- AmitDeshwar 05:49, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
This article is definitely not NPOV, it is an outright bash against Norton AV. It would be similar to me doing an article on Bush and just putting in: Current president of the United States. Many Americans think he's a moron.
In addition to this, the article fails to:
From the entry as it stands: Despite its widespread adoption, it carries a reputation within the computer enthusiast community as slow and inefficient. It is also notorious for being almost impossible to completely uninstall. Some ignorant but well-meaning editor will probably come along and "clean this up" or "NPOV" it before too long, which is unfortunate, as it is entirely to the point. I have worked with computers on a professional basis for over 20 years, and we deal with (among other programs) NAV on a daily basis. It really is slow (compare with, for example, VET or Trend Micro IS) and horribly cumbersome to configure. It really is inefficient - every week we get machines come in for repair that are infected with viruses despite having NAV installed and (in most cases) fully up-to-date. I have no idea why NAV misses so many viruses (including well-known old ones that you'd expect any AV package to deal with competently) but there is not the slightest doubt that it is the least effective of the common AV programs. (Possibly because it is so common: I suspect that virus writers target NAV first when they are disabling AV software simply because it is the market leader.) Whatever the reason, there is no doubt of the consequence.
As for removal, this is a serious problem. The uninstall feature sometimes works OK, sometimes doesn't. Uninstall is possible roughly 2 times out of 3. If it won't uninstall, then you have to do it by hand, and that is a horribly time-consuming task requiring manual deletion of lots of different files and an exhaustive search through the registry with many edits. It is beyond the capacity of most average computer users.
In short, the entry as it stands is much too short, but perfectly accurate. Tannin 20:51, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The article doesn't say what it IS. I mean, it's a computer product, obviously, but if someone came here without knowing what NAV does, would they be enlightened? Joyous 23:18, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)
What is Norton Ghost?
Has this page ever mentioned the general hacker/cracker opinion of Norton? Most such people (so called "white-hat" and "black-hat" alike) consider Norton a joke. There are even t-shirts, "not even norton can protect you now." (no caps)
ZelmersZoetrop
Really? Can you link to the picture or add it to the section of the article about the criticism of NAV? Oh yeah btw if someone goes on http://pack.google.com you can get NAV for free with a 6 month subscription. Clearly, Symantec is getting more despreate... --__-- The pointer outer 23:18, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
I am considering a removal of the section critizing Norton Anti-Virus. It is not neutral in POV and its removal should strongly be considered. IMO, Norton is the best antivirus sofware, no matter what anyone says. Andros 1337 17:37, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
There is a correction needed in this article. there are actually 3 products that get a update on a daily basis. they are Symantec AntiVirus Corporate Edition 10.0x, Norton AntiVirus 2006, and Norton Internet Security 2006. However, all other products are provided every wednesday,(except when there is a serious virus outbreak, which in the terms of Norton is NEVER) making Norton Antivirus the worst antivirus program around. Also, as mentioned, Norton antivirus and Symantec antivirus are the same. I am considering changing it so it would show "Norton(Symantec) Antivirus" Name fix please! The pointer outer 02:44, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Norton Antivirus should be classified as a virus. Look at the evidence in the article:
HappyVR 14:59, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
"should be classified as a virus" - I completely agree.
I work with virus-laden computers daily. Many have NAV installed, and still got infected. The only worse protection is that provided by AOL. Norton is buggy, difficult to uninstall, and subscription extensions are iffy at best. Peter Norton would be ashamed at what Symantec has done to his name.
If you choose not to update your subscription, after 90 days you get a pop-up reminder which is (a) always on top and (b) won't go away. If you contact Symantec customer service, they acknowledge this as "a design feature" and a "friendly reminder". This occurs despite deselecting the alerts box under Options. They also freely acknowledge that the only way to get rid of this pop-up, which effectively disables your computer by permanently obscuring nearly 1/4 of the screen, is to pay Symantec further money to upgrade or update subscription, or to uninstall software one has purchased the full rights to use.
Information at Symantec's knowledge base confirms this, listing ways to get rid of the box, all of which require exchange of money. This can be found at - Symantec Knowledge Base
This is menace-ware and should be stopped, or at least publicised. DividedSelf 14:34, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
It automatically gets the latest Intelligent Updater (read: daily updates) and installs it, regardless of subscription status.
The application has been updated 22 May 2006 to be nearly silent (no pop-up window for IU) and potentially faster than LiveUpdate.
Crythias 03:18, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
someone put this topic as controversial, but did not explain why. The function of the talk pages are for this purpose. what's the controversy? The pointer outer 21:27, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
o nvm T_T The pointer outer 21:41, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
This article takes a very negative look at Norton AV, and doesn't talk much about its technical aspects. I am not one to defend Norton AV, but this article is certainly in need of a revamp. :: Colin Keigher 09:15, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Before I go further I'd like to state for the record that I have major bias when it comes to Symantec Corporation. I frankly find them as "evil" as many do Microsoft. I could go on for 10 paragraphs on the subject but it's not a appropriate here.
I've stopped using Symantec products and wouldn't use them again even if they were given to me for free.
So now that you know that I feel that Symantec sucks (to put it mildly) let me comment on this article.
This article needs to be thrown-out and redone from scratch. It's a mess. It's inappropriate for an encyclopedia. To say it doesn't have a "neutral point of view" is a gross understament.
It's a Norton bash-fest! 3/4 of it is nothing but criicism of the product. There are plenty of articles on Wikipedia that include some criticisim surrounding the topic of the article, but they put it under a "criticism" heading near the end and it doesn't dominate the article.
This is one of the most inappropriate and biased Wikipedia articles I've come across in recent times.
There's no question that this article doesn't have a NPOV.
And criticism aside, I don't consider Norton AntiVirus to be Symantec's "Flagship" product. The first (Peter) Norton product was Norton Utilities back in the DOS days. The current version is now part of Norton Systemworks. Norton Systemworks also includes Norton Antivirus. Therefore it seems to me that Norton SystemWorks is more of a "flagship" product than Norton AntiVirus.
-- angrykeyboarder (a/k/a:Scott) 05:13, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
I do not understand how the comment is biased at all because it actually states the truth. Norton AntiVirus does have the reputation of being a resource intensive utility, even when running in the background. It actually has a 13% impact on a system's performance. In all of my years using the program I have only seen about two or three occasions where NAV actually removes a virus.
This article criticizes NAV extensivly. It is important to have this section in the article to insure that this information is told to others. However, it should not equal more than half of it. It should be brought down to 15% of the article or less. I agree that NAV is flawed, but the article should not speak excessivly of that. More information about the product will be necessary to make this poorly written article as neutral as it needs to be.
~ Wow, this article is really exaggerating the flaws of NAV, even of those present in other anti-virus softwares. The FBI/CIA dispute is linked to many other anti-virus companies whom have also pledged to not detect it. The so-called ineffectual customer service section in the article. So, the paragraph supports this by talking about a flaw in the programming?? and then cite references to the symantec support site which says what the solution is and then cites a reference to a relatively short thread in a forum of two users talking about how they had a bad experience with symantec. right, so with that, it proves that theres is bad customer service and that the software has a non-existent flaw. The Firewall & Alerts section is not really a fair argument since it is true that the windows firewall and Norton anti-virus will conflict and therefore one has to be deactivated. The fact that the user has disabled the windows firewall and forgets to re-enable it after their free trial has expired sounds more like whining than a supported criticism. And finally with that opening statement in Resource usage, the fact that its not supported at all and sounds like an opinion than any Symantec basher could say, i would really like to see sources backing this up. Otherwise, its just speculation based on everyone's opinions and experience. It's true that the Criticisms section does not have a NPOV. It is not a matter of fact that there are so many things wrong with NAV. Many things were clearly exaggerated and unsupported. Proper citations are definitely needed.
"The neutrality of this section is disputed." This is exactly what to expect in a section named "Criticisms". The section is a place for negitive comments. To neutralize the entire article, this section needs to be smaller and other sections enlarged.
I'm surprised that there's no mention of the complete ludicracy of trying to Norton trying to sell AntiVirus software for OS X, which when I heard last had just 2 very harmless viruses. It would be interesting if someone could research the thinking behind Norton doing this.
I've used NAV before and all I can say is it is useless and that can actually infect your system rather than benefit it. I've tested it before on items I KNOW are absolute viruses, trojans, etc and it registers them as not being a threat. I updated them to see if it would make a difference and it does not. I've tested it on UCM, UCRPM, CRMP, and a few other things including a worm, a trojan, and a system virus. Same results. Not detected. I feel that it's often useless detection features should be included. -VonV
I must, say, you are completley right. Having used NAV before, it actually did more harm than good. For example, who would have known that Mozilla Firefox was "theifware"? After that, I uninstaled it, but couldn't. SO I had to go to regedit, manually delete everysingle key, and delete every single folder the damn thing created. IT's also the only security company I know who actually gives instructions to manually uninstall the thing, but they really couldn't make a batch file to run in safe mode that could! The pointer outer 03:11, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
Screw Norton Anti-Bandwidth. Stupid program hogging tons of memory to sit around and do nothing but tell you to update and renew your subscription. I've taken this off many computers and added nod-32 and problem solved. Well almost. Norton creates so many remnants of itself throughout the computer that often times you have to back up precious data and re-format, its rooted in that deep.
I would like to whole heartedly thank the author for putting into writing my own strong feelings towards Norton Antivirus (and also the current crop of McAfee AV products). I can't remember what lead me to search Norton Antivirus on wikipedia, but to say I felt a warm fuzzy feeling upon reading the article would be a huge understatement. Thank you.
Regarding uninstallation, I keep a link to the Symantec Norton Removal Tool (SymNRT.exe) at the top of my personal 'website' (my list of things not to forget - at http://www2.css-networks.com)
The NPOV tag that was removed has been readded due to what the user had pointed out...
However, I do know that there should be a section devoted to the pros
Until that section is added and some balance is added to the existing section, the NPOV tag should stay on. :: Colin Keigher 04:50, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
This article is NPOV because the article is almost entirely devoted to how awful the product is. There is a two sentence history and then the rest of the article talks about how awful the program is. On top of this there is no sources and most of it is written as heresy and opinion. Phrases like "it carries a reputation within parts of the computer enthusiast community as being slow and inefficient", "Users experiencing the bug report being offered multiple ineffective labor-intensive attempts to work around the problem", and "the problem was caused by Symantec's buggy code " are obviously NPOV and just the opinion of the writer. Until a valid source (not two people complaining on a message board) is used the article will be NPOV. I moved the NPOV tag and added a source tag to the top of the article. Dominic 19:52, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
A consensus must first be reached on how this shall be done, but it could be easier by brainstorming some topics and ideas for the fresh-from-start article of Norton AntiVirus.
A decent amount of non-biased history about the life-span of NAV.
A section describing it's possibilities (features), NOT only what's unique with NAV.
An acceptable amount of criticism, cause and effects, FULLY SOURCED. However, until that occurs, this controversial section should be deleted or left blank until such time vs. subjecting the world to unsourced opinions and flames as we wait...
The future of NAV, upcoming versions, news and interesting facts people would be find rewarding to know about.
<c o n t i n u e d....>
Shandris
the
azylean
20:06, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Removed it as the first two have nothing to do with Norton, but are to do with the company (and the FBI/CIA thing is not Symantec-exclusive). The last one refers to Symantec Antivirus Corporate Edition (this article is about the product named Norton Antivirus, look at the title). The section titled "Slow Response to viruses" is the ONLY thing that vaguely resembles a valid criticism, but needs reworking. Criticisms should be discussed here first, confined to valid points and kept short. Again, see What Is A Good Article for more info. Smoothy 12:08, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
I work in PC tech support. At a rough guess, 60% of those who contact me, need assistance due to the way that Norton products have afflicted their machine.
The most common complaints I receive:
- Customer's PC has slowed down to a crawl. Almost always due to Norton Antivirus. - Customer's PC has lost network connectivity, or has developed other minor faults. Almost always due to Norton Internet Security. - Customer has bought another antivirus product which will not function until Norton Antivirus is removed, and Norton Antivirus will not remove itself.
This article is by no means biased. It is telling the truth. -- Intimidated talk 18:44, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be a revert war between User:Smoothy and lots of other people. This is unfortunate, as most people here seem to want the criticism section to stay. However, I will agree that a "pro" section is necessary, one based on professional reviews, most of which seem to be positive (especially with regards to the user interface). Also, the criticisms section is incomplete, as many issues are unaddressed due to lack of citations, likely because neither product criticism/bashing nor long-term usage is a forte of commercial magazines. Here are some of the issues that NAV allegedly has that are not mentioned in the current article:
Any sourced mention of these would greatly improve the article, even though they would enrage those who seem to think that a sizeable "criticisms" section is, by definition, POV. Reasonable people should not confuse a neutral point of view with a misinterpreted concept of equal time (in which the opportunity for access becomes the "necessity" of a differing viewpoint). Calbaer 22:48, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
The criticisms section appears to be adequately sourced and topical. I recommend moving it toward the bottom part of the article. Durova 22:24, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
It certainly seems on-topic. For the FBI/CIA sub-section's sources, I have commented out the link to http://www.sfbg.com/News/36/12/prof.html, wince this is currently a 404 error, and I have replaced the link to Slashdot with the article at The Register that Slashdot was linking to. -- AJR | Talk 00:50, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Criticisms seem on topic and sourced. Its not violating NPOV to include criticisms. -- AmitDeshwar 05:49, 3 October 2006 (UTC)