![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 1 February 2023. The result of the discussion was keep. |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
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![]() | IMPORTANT NOTICE: ACCUSATIONS OF COMMITTING A CRIME
This article may contain material about living persons who have been accused of committing a crime. Editors must take extra care to not include any material which suggests the person has committed, or is accused of having committed, a crime, unless a conviction has been secured (see
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This shooting is directly connected to the summer 2020 BLM protests George_Floyd_protests_in_Portland,_Oregon and the 2017 attack by Jeremy Christian 2017_Portland_train_attack It has received international attention. I am gathering news sources, including NYT, WashPost, WSJ and Intercept as well as detailed local perspective from Portland Mercury. Also related to the frequent Proud_Boys and Patriot_Prayer incursions into Portland. Details to come. Art to Tech ( talk) 05:25, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
Normandale Park shooting - sandbox draft Here's general direction I would take the article.
Art to Tech ( talk) 06:49, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion.Beccaynr ( talk) 16:40, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
There is consensus that The Intercept is generally reliable for news. Almost all editors consider The Intercept a biased source, so uses may need to be attributed.Beccaynr ( talk) 16:58, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
This
breaking news, with multiple references for the same/similar information and no current indication of
lasting major consequences, or affecting a major
geographical scope, or significant non-routine
coverage persisting over a period of time per
WP:EVENT, appears suitable for a
redirect to
List of mass shootings in the United States in 2022 at this time,
because it is a topic [...] described or listed within a wider article
.
Beccaynr (
talk) 05:27, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives; the possibility of harm to living subjects must always be considered when exercising editorial judgment.Beccaynr ( talk) 17:12, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
[Chief Chuck] Lovell said the Police Bureau’s initial reference to the Normandale Park shooting suspect as a "homeowner" was probably a result of information that may not have been thoroughly vetted before it was made public or "semantics that can trip us up a bit.", which seems like an example of how breaking news can be problematic for the encyclopedia. Beccaynr ( talk) 00:18, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
As of today, multiple news sources (at least three [2] [3] [4]) seem to be reporting a prime suspect. There hasn't been an arrest or police statement to that effect from what I can find and none of those sources are rated WP:RSP reliable, so I'm not adding them yet, but these may be useful later on. — Kimberly Grey ( talk) 13:16, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
A living person accused of a crime is presumed innocent until convicted by a court of law. Accusations, investigations and arrests do not amount to a conviction. For individuals who are not public figures; that is, individuals not covered by § Public figures, editors must seriously consider not including material—in any article—that suggests the person has committed, or is accused of having committed, a crime, unless a conviction has been secured.
Material that may adversely affect a person's reputation should be treated with special care, and the WP:BLPNAME section includes,
Caution should be applied when identifying individuals who are discussed primarily in terms of a single event. When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed, such as in certain court cases or occupations, it is often preferable to omit it, especially when doing so does not result in a significant loss of context. When deciding whether to include a name, its publication in secondary sources other than news media, such as scholarly journals or the work of recognized experts, should be afforded greater weight than the brief appearance of names in news stories.
Just here to encourage editors to read sources closely. At this time, there is only one version of events. We haven't heard the shooter's version of events. Also, the police have video. I appreciate the NPV of this article so far, thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.164.167.85 ( talk) 17:02, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
This does not appear to be a reliable source, based on the article description New Lines Magazine, as well as the content of the particular source that has been attempted to be used and added to the article. This at best questionable source does not appear suitable for the WP:BLPCRIME-related claims it makes about the suspect. Thank you, Beccaynr ( talk) 23:06, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
generally unsuitable for citing contentious claims about third parties. But I did not review the about page, which does make the source appear to be WP:RSOPINION (and it is labeled "Argument"), and appropriate for the Further Reading section. When I saw it as an unreliable source, removing it from the Further Reading section seemed additionally supported because of how it discusses a living person accused of a crime, and related to using it for statements of fact about a living person accused of a crime (e.g. [5]).
There are already many sources in the article about the extremism connection, so putting them here in case other find them useful for other citation reasons. tedder ( talk) 17:06, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 1 February 2023. The result of the discussion was keep. |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
![]() | This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
![]() | IMPORTANT NOTICE: ACCUSATIONS OF COMMITTING A CRIME
This article may contain material about living persons who have been accused of committing a crime. Editors must take extra care to not include any material which suggests the person has committed, or is accused of having committed, a crime, unless a conviction has been secured (see
WP:BLPCRIME). Please edit carefully. |
This shooting is directly connected to the summer 2020 BLM protests George_Floyd_protests_in_Portland,_Oregon and the 2017 attack by Jeremy Christian 2017_Portland_train_attack It has received international attention. I am gathering news sources, including NYT, WashPost, WSJ and Intercept as well as detailed local perspective from Portland Mercury. Also related to the frequent Proud_Boys and Patriot_Prayer incursions into Portland. Details to come. Art to Tech ( talk) 05:25, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
Normandale Park shooting - sandbox draft Here's general direction I would take the article.
Art to Tech ( talk) 06:49, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion.Beccaynr ( talk) 16:40, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
There is consensus that The Intercept is generally reliable for news. Almost all editors consider The Intercept a biased source, so uses may need to be attributed.Beccaynr ( talk) 16:58, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
This
breaking news, with multiple references for the same/similar information and no current indication of
lasting major consequences, or affecting a major
geographical scope, or significant non-routine
coverage persisting over a period of time per
WP:EVENT, appears suitable for a
redirect to
List of mass shootings in the United States in 2022 at this time,
because it is a topic [...] described or listed within a wider article
.
Beccaynr (
talk) 05:27, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives; the possibility of harm to living subjects must always be considered when exercising editorial judgment.Beccaynr ( talk) 17:12, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
[Chief Chuck] Lovell said the Police Bureau’s initial reference to the Normandale Park shooting suspect as a "homeowner" was probably a result of information that may not have been thoroughly vetted before it was made public or "semantics that can trip us up a bit.", which seems like an example of how breaking news can be problematic for the encyclopedia. Beccaynr ( talk) 00:18, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
As of today, multiple news sources (at least three [2] [3] [4]) seem to be reporting a prime suspect. There hasn't been an arrest or police statement to that effect from what I can find and none of those sources are rated WP:RSP reliable, so I'm not adding them yet, but these may be useful later on. — Kimberly Grey ( talk) 13:16, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
A living person accused of a crime is presumed innocent until convicted by a court of law. Accusations, investigations and arrests do not amount to a conviction. For individuals who are not public figures; that is, individuals not covered by § Public figures, editors must seriously consider not including material—in any article—that suggests the person has committed, or is accused of having committed, a crime, unless a conviction has been secured.
Material that may adversely affect a person's reputation should be treated with special care, and the WP:BLPNAME section includes,
Caution should be applied when identifying individuals who are discussed primarily in terms of a single event. When the name of a private individual has not been widely disseminated or has been intentionally concealed, such as in certain court cases or occupations, it is often preferable to omit it, especially when doing so does not result in a significant loss of context. When deciding whether to include a name, its publication in secondary sources other than news media, such as scholarly journals or the work of recognized experts, should be afforded greater weight than the brief appearance of names in news stories.
Just here to encourage editors to read sources closely. At this time, there is only one version of events. We haven't heard the shooter's version of events. Also, the police have video. I appreciate the NPV of this article so far, thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.164.167.85 ( talk) 17:02, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
This does not appear to be a reliable source, based on the article description New Lines Magazine, as well as the content of the particular source that has been attempted to be used and added to the article. This at best questionable source does not appear suitable for the WP:BLPCRIME-related claims it makes about the suspect. Thank you, Beccaynr ( talk) 23:06, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
generally unsuitable for citing contentious claims about third parties. But I did not review the about page, which does make the source appear to be WP:RSOPINION (and it is labeled "Argument"), and appropriate for the Further Reading section. When I saw it as an unreliable source, removing it from the Further Reading section seemed additionally supported because of how it discusses a living person accused of a crime, and related to using it for statements of fact about a living person accused of a crime (e.g. [5]).
There are already many sources in the article about the extremism connection, so putting them here in case other find them useful for other citation reasons. tedder ( talk) 17:06, 24 February 2023 (UTC)