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This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 04:19, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
The ironic tone of the following line seems inappropriate for Wikipedia: "He is regarded by some as one of the foremost living semi-retired Popular (non-Scholarly) American Evangelical Protestant Gilsonian NeoThomistic Pre-Millenial Pre-Tribulational Dispensationalist Cessationist Inerrantist Moderate-Realist Moderate-Calvinist Abstentionist apologists of the Christian religion." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.74.233.161 ( talk) 19:48, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
I don't think the "official webpage" reference is accurate, as far as I can tell from here the official Norman Geisler website is http://www.normangeisler.net/ , not http://www.normgeisler.com/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.100.28.120 ( talk) 18:44, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
Quote from this section - "Geisler rejects the critical Calvinist tenets of unconditional election, limited atonement, and irresistible grace, yet retains modified versions of total depravity and perseverance of the saints. Yet critics reject the term "moderate Calvinism". James White calls it "merely a modified form of historic Arminianism."[6] Michael Horton notes that historically "moderate Calvinism" referred to Amyraldianism, but "Geisler’s position is much further from Calvinism than Amyraldianism."[7]"
Geisler does not reject these tenets. In fact Geisler affirmed these tenets in his book Chosen But Free 2nd ed. p. 120-121:
Concerning unconditional election, Geisler said there is “no condition for God” in election. Concerning irresistible grace, Geisler stated that God persuades those who are “receptive to God's work.” In response to James White, he does reject the idea of irresistible grace on the unwilling. Concerning total depravity, he said that the image of God in humanity was corrupted or “effaced.” And concerning perseverance of the saints, he said “no saint will ever be lost.”
Concerning limited atonement, Geisler stated that the atonement was "limited in result" and applied only to the elect. Geisler - along with other moderate Calvinists - also hold that the extent of the atonement is available for all. Also James White in his book The Potter's Freedom claimed Geisler rejected 3 points and modified 2 others. However in response Geisler in Chosen But Free 2nd ed. p. 253 stated: “To begin with, it (The Potter's Freedom) misrepresents my view by claiming it has only two Calvinistic elements (PF, 20), when in fact, I agree with all but one of PF's definitions of its six points of Calvinism – irresistible grace on the unwilling (PF, 39-40).”
Geisler's explicit affirmations are in line with the beliefs of moderate Calvinism/4 point Calvinism, so I think the statements should be removed. James White in The Potter's Freedom advocates a much more narrow definition of Calvinism than what has been used historically. So White's criticisms end up excluding not just Geisler but all moderate Calvinists from what he calls Calvinism. Horton's quote does the same, since he equates "moderate Calvinism" to Amyraldianism - then distances Amyraldianism from "Calvinism." Lamorak ( talk) 03:41, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
"Geisler was. . . the lead witness for the creationist side and one of its most brilliant witnesses. His testimony, in my view (I was present during the entire trial), effectively demolished the most important thrust of the case by the ACLU" is fluff. He demolished nothing, since he actually lost the trial. A matter of WP:NPOV. Tgeorgescu ( talk) 23:43, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Geisler was. . . the lead witness for the creationist side and one of its most brilliant witnesses. His testimony, in my view (I was present during the entire trial), effectively demolished the most important thrust of the case by the ACLU. Unfortunately, in my opinion, no testimony, and no effort by any team of lawyers, no matter how brilliant, could have won the case for the creationist side.
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This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 04:19, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
The ironic tone of the following line seems inappropriate for Wikipedia: "He is regarded by some as one of the foremost living semi-retired Popular (non-Scholarly) American Evangelical Protestant Gilsonian NeoThomistic Pre-Millenial Pre-Tribulational Dispensationalist Cessationist Inerrantist Moderate-Realist Moderate-Calvinist Abstentionist apologists of the Christian religion." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.74.233.161 ( talk) 19:48, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
I don't think the "official webpage" reference is accurate, as far as I can tell from here the official Norman Geisler website is http://www.normangeisler.net/ , not http://www.normgeisler.com/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.100.28.120 ( talk) 18:44, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
Quote from this section - "Geisler rejects the critical Calvinist tenets of unconditional election, limited atonement, and irresistible grace, yet retains modified versions of total depravity and perseverance of the saints. Yet critics reject the term "moderate Calvinism". James White calls it "merely a modified form of historic Arminianism."[6] Michael Horton notes that historically "moderate Calvinism" referred to Amyraldianism, but "Geisler’s position is much further from Calvinism than Amyraldianism."[7]"
Geisler does not reject these tenets. In fact Geisler affirmed these tenets in his book Chosen But Free 2nd ed. p. 120-121:
Concerning unconditional election, Geisler said there is “no condition for God” in election. Concerning irresistible grace, Geisler stated that God persuades those who are “receptive to God's work.” In response to James White, he does reject the idea of irresistible grace on the unwilling. Concerning total depravity, he said that the image of God in humanity was corrupted or “effaced.” And concerning perseverance of the saints, he said “no saint will ever be lost.”
Concerning limited atonement, Geisler stated that the atonement was "limited in result" and applied only to the elect. Geisler - along with other moderate Calvinists - also hold that the extent of the atonement is available for all. Also James White in his book The Potter's Freedom claimed Geisler rejected 3 points and modified 2 others. However in response Geisler in Chosen But Free 2nd ed. p. 253 stated: “To begin with, it (The Potter's Freedom) misrepresents my view by claiming it has only two Calvinistic elements (PF, 20), when in fact, I agree with all but one of PF's definitions of its six points of Calvinism – irresistible grace on the unwilling (PF, 39-40).”
Geisler's explicit affirmations are in line with the beliefs of moderate Calvinism/4 point Calvinism, so I think the statements should be removed. James White in The Potter's Freedom advocates a much more narrow definition of Calvinism than what has been used historically. So White's criticisms end up excluding not just Geisler but all moderate Calvinists from what he calls Calvinism. Horton's quote does the same, since he equates "moderate Calvinism" to Amyraldianism - then distances Amyraldianism from "Calvinism." Lamorak ( talk) 03:41, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
"Geisler was. . . the lead witness for the creationist side and one of its most brilliant witnesses. His testimony, in my view (I was present during the entire trial), effectively demolished the most important thrust of the case by the ACLU" is fluff. He demolished nothing, since he actually lost the trial. A matter of WP:NPOV. Tgeorgescu ( talk) 23:43, 23 December 2014 (UTC)
Geisler was. . . the lead witness for the creationist side and one of its most brilliant witnesses. His testimony, in my view (I was present during the entire trial), effectively demolished the most important thrust of the case by the ACLU. Unfortunately, in my opinion, no testimony, and no effort by any team of lawyers, no matter how brilliant, could have won the case for the creationist side.
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Norman Geisler. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:01, 30 November 2016 (UTC)