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This article was nominated for deletion on 8 January 2009. The result of the discussion was nomination withdrawn by nominator. |
Please do not keep deleting Nordine Zouareg's profile. He was Mr. France, Mr. Europe, Mr.World and Mr.Universe in 1986.He is a well known personality on health and fitness in the United States. Thank you Aditijjoshi ( talk) 04:25, 17 May 2008 (UTC) Aditi
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
It read like it had been taken in large part from his book and/or was written by someone who knows the subject personally - with a lot of fluff and weasel words. I have stripped most of the non relevant information out to bring the article length back more in line with the subject's notability and removed all of the weasel words and POV language. I still think it needs work, most of all it needs reliable third party citations to confirm awards and accolades. I also think the book section which I have not really touched needs rewording to be less like it came off the back cover of the book itself. Mfield ( talk) 15:25, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
It also needs clarifying which associations he was a member of as the titles in the article do not match the official titles. It claims he was in the World Amateur Bodybuilding Association, but WP has articles for World_Amateur_Bodybuilding_Championships or World Body Building Association. It claims he won Mr Universe, but apparently per World_Amateur_Bodybuilding_Championships that award was stopped in 1976, long before he alledgedly won it, as it was owned by the NABBA - Universe_Championships, something he is not mentioned as being a part of. Mfield ( talk) 15:45, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Maybe that helps with notability? Otherwise, not much out there. I've added the reference. Jlg4104 ( talk) 02:56, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
I emailed Nordine Zouareg during the AfD at: http://www.nordinez.com/contact. There was a required phone number section, so I put my number in. He called me and confused my wife. We spoke for a long time. He said that he won Mr. Universe twice, once in 1986, and once in 1988 in Guatalupe.
He said he had never won the Mr. Olypmia, so I took this out of the article.
Although he had heard of Wikipedia before, it was obvious he has never been on wikipedia,
He provided me with the French covers which are in the external links, which he showed me on the Google images. He has 320 images in his name--this maybe should make him notable.
He had no way to prove, other than with the French covers, that he was Mr. Universe. He said he could mail his certificates or ring.
He did make a good point, it was twenty years ago.
My investigative side screams "this is still not enough" to prove that he is Mr. Universe, but I don't think my role as an editor is to be a private eye. If he fooled me about being Mr. Universe, he also fooled numerous authors, journalists, and even soloflex (there is a blog entry on this).
And most important, I believe him, he sounded very sincere, like a really nice guy. Sure there is no way to " verify" this, but sometimes wikipedia editors gotta stop living the mosaic law, with strict zealous observations of the rules, and start living a higher law, where the spirit of the law is more important....
I told him to email me if he comes up with any more information. travb ( talk) 02:48, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
"Nordine used mental exercises to overcome his body’s limitations, ultimately becoming a champion bodybuilder and earning the titles of Mr. France, Mr. Europe, Mr. World and Mr. Universe, all by the age of 23, making him the youngest athlete to win a Mr. universe title after the famous Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger."
I keep having to go back to his website to look at this information, so it is good to have it here, so I can refer to it... travb ( talk) 05:39, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
"One of the first competitions he won was the Junior Mr. Europe contest in 1965.[5] He won Mr. Europe the following year, at age 19.[5][13] He would go on to compete in and win many bodybuilding contests, as well as some powerlifting contests, including five Mr. Universe (4 – NABBA [England], 1 – IFBB [USA]) wins, and seven Mr. Olympia wins, a record which would stand until Lee Haney won his eighth consecutive Mr. Olympia title in 1991."
I am confused, why is Mr. Zouareg comparing himself to Schwarzenegger if Zouareg won the World Amateur Bodybuilding Association (WABBA) contest, but Schwarzenegger won Mr. Universe in NABBA [England] and IFBB [USA]?
I can't seem to find much on the World Amateur Bodybuilding Association (WABBA) Mr. Universe contest, is it still held? travb ( talk) 05:50, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
First, I want Mr. Zouareg to know, if he's listening, that my initial nomination for deletion was not meant as any disrespect to him. I apologize for any offense he may have taken at my characterization of the article.
Second, I came across the article by clicking "Random article," and it looked like a possible candidate for an AfD discussion, based on the page's problems in establishing notability and verifiability. I did my own research and was unable to solve these problems, so I nominated it for AfD. I considered the problem to be the page's problem, not Mr. Zouareg's. He is clearly an accomplished person, no question.
Third, I have learned to be a bit more careful about nominating for deletion. Jlg4104 ( talk) 11:04, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
Reasons why AfDs should never be used to clean up an article |
---|
1. WP:PRESERVE Policy Preserve information. Whatever you do, endeavour to preserve information. Instead of removing, try to:
2. Wikipedia:Notability Guideline states: "If an article fails to cite sufficient sources to demonstrate the notability of its subject, look for sources yourself." Most editors who put an article up for deletion fail to do this. This is something you can bring up in the deletion discussion. 3. Wikipedia:Deletion Policy Decorum and politeness. Wikipedia urges any contributor to read the Wikipedia:Deletion policy before deleting or nominating an article for deletion. "When in doubt, discuss first on the talk page." (Discussing on the talk page before flagging for deletion is rarely done.) 4. Wikipedia:Introduction to deletion process WP:INTROTODELETE Essay Remember that deletion is a last resort. Deletion nominations rarely improve articles, and deletion should not be used as a way to improve an article, or a reaction to a bad article. It is appropriate for articles which cannot be improved. 5. Wikipedia:Potential, not just current state Essay In most cases deletion of an article should be a last resort |
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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|
This article was nominated for deletion on 8 January 2009. The result of the discussion was nomination withdrawn by nominator. |
Please do not keep deleting Nordine Zouareg's profile. He was Mr. France, Mr. Europe, Mr.World and Mr.Universe in 1986.He is a well known personality on health and fitness in the United States. Thank you Aditijjoshi ( talk) 04:25, 17 May 2008 (UTC) Aditi
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
It read like it had been taken in large part from his book and/or was written by someone who knows the subject personally - with a lot of fluff and weasel words. I have stripped most of the non relevant information out to bring the article length back more in line with the subject's notability and removed all of the weasel words and POV language. I still think it needs work, most of all it needs reliable third party citations to confirm awards and accolades. I also think the book section which I have not really touched needs rewording to be less like it came off the back cover of the book itself. Mfield ( talk) 15:25, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
It also needs clarifying which associations he was a member of as the titles in the article do not match the official titles. It claims he was in the World Amateur Bodybuilding Association, but WP has articles for World_Amateur_Bodybuilding_Championships or World Body Building Association. It claims he won Mr Universe, but apparently per World_Amateur_Bodybuilding_Championships that award was stopped in 1976, long before he alledgedly won it, as it was owned by the NABBA - Universe_Championships, something he is not mentioned as being a part of. Mfield ( talk) 15:45, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Maybe that helps with notability? Otherwise, not much out there. I've added the reference. Jlg4104 ( talk) 02:56, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
I emailed Nordine Zouareg during the AfD at: http://www.nordinez.com/contact. There was a required phone number section, so I put my number in. He called me and confused my wife. We spoke for a long time. He said that he won Mr. Universe twice, once in 1986, and once in 1988 in Guatalupe.
He said he had never won the Mr. Olypmia, so I took this out of the article.
Although he had heard of Wikipedia before, it was obvious he has never been on wikipedia,
He provided me with the French covers which are in the external links, which he showed me on the Google images. He has 320 images in his name--this maybe should make him notable.
He had no way to prove, other than with the French covers, that he was Mr. Universe. He said he could mail his certificates or ring.
He did make a good point, it was twenty years ago.
My investigative side screams "this is still not enough" to prove that he is Mr. Universe, but I don't think my role as an editor is to be a private eye. If he fooled me about being Mr. Universe, he also fooled numerous authors, journalists, and even soloflex (there is a blog entry on this).
And most important, I believe him, he sounded very sincere, like a really nice guy. Sure there is no way to " verify" this, but sometimes wikipedia editors gotta stop living the mosaic law, with strict zealous observations of the rules, and start living a higher law, where the spirit of the law is more important....
I told him to email me if he comes up with any more information. travb ( talk) 02:48, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
"Nordine used mental exercises to overcome his body’s limitations, ultimately becoming a champion bodybuilder and earning the titles of Mr. France, Mr. Europe, Mr. World and Mr. Universe, all by the age of 23, making him the youngest athlete to win a Mr. universe title after the famous Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger."
I keep having to go back to his website to look at this information, so it is good to have it here, so I can refer to it... travb ( talk) 05:39, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
"One of the first competitions he won was the Junior Mr. Europe contest in 1965.[5] He won Mr. Europe the following year, at age 19.[5][13] He would go on to compete in and win many bodybuilding contests, as well as some powerlifting contests, including five Mr. Universe (4 – NABBA [England], 1 – IFBB [USA]) wins, and seven Mr. Olympia wins, a record which would stand until Lee Haney won his eighth consecutive Mr. Olympia title in 1991."
I am confused, why is Mr. Zouareg comparing himself to Schwarzenegger if Zouareg won the World Amateur Bodybuilding Association (WABBA) contest, but Schwarzenegger won Mr. Universe in NABBA [England] and IFBB [USA]?
I can't seem to find much on the World Amateur Bodybuilding Association (WABBA) Mr. Universe contest, is it still held? travb ( talk) 05:50, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
First, I want Mr. Zouareg to know, if he's listening, that my initial nomination for deletion was not meant as any disrespect to him. I apologize for any offense he may have taken at my characterization of the article.
Second, I came across the article by clicking "Random article," and it looked like a possible candidate for an AfD discussion, based on the page's problems in establishing notability and verifiability. I did my own research and was unable to solve these problems, so I nominated it for AfD. I considered the problem to be the page's problem, not Mr. Zouareg's. He is clearly an accomplished person, no question.
Third, I have learned to be a bit more careful about nominating for deletion. Jlg4104 ( talk) 11:04, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
Reasons why AfDs should never be used to clean up an article |
---|
1. WP:PRESERVE Policy Preserve information. Whatever you do, endeavour to preserve information. Instead of removing, try to:
2. Wikipedia:Notability Guideline states: "If an article fails to cite sufficient sources to demonstrate the notability of its subject, look for sources yourself." Most editors who put an article up for deletion fail to do this. This is something you can bring up in the deletion discussion. 3. Wikipedia:Deletion Policy Decorum and politeness. Wikipedia urges any contributor to read the Wikipedia:Deletion policy before deleting or nominating an article for deletion. "When in doubt, discuss first on the talk page." (Discussing on the talk page before flagging for deletion is rarely done.) 4. Wikipedia:Introduction to deletion process WP:INTROTODELETE Essay Remember that deletion is a last resort. Deletion nominations rarely improve articles, and deletion should not be used as a way to improve an article, or a reaction to a bad article. It is appropriate for articles which cannot be improved. 5. Wikipedia:Potential, not just current state Essay In most cases deletion of an article should be a last resort |
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Nordine Zouareg. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 00:51, 24 January 2016 (UTC)