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This article states that the problem of bombs falling at supersonic velocity was hard to solve. I would thik so, since no projectile has a terminal velocity in any medium higher than the speed of sound in that medium.
I'm new here, but the text in this article copies the text found at this page: [1] almost exactly, with a fair amount of original extra words/facts thrown in as well. The page appears to be a US Military site, so maybe it is not a problem, but I figured I'd post this just in case.
The article omits a key point, that is short and to the point, and makes the whole article understandable to the average person. The article does not mention the simple fact that the Bombardier took over certain flight controls from the pilot, for the short duration that they approached the target. They would switch to autopilot, and the Bombardier had Auto-Pilot controls. The Bombardier "dialed in" direction headings into the Auto-Pilot. Marc S. 206.192.35.125 ( talk) 12:21, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
Deleted uncited speculation about Lotfe-7K bombsight.
The article says both that "its existence was a closely guarded secret" and that it was "marketed as the tool to win the war; and it was often touted that the bombsight would drop bombs in pickle barrels". Where was it marketed and who was being touted to if even its existence was a secret? KarlM 06:44, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
Ask the veterans who were stationed at Wake Island, Guadalcanal, Port Moresby etc about Japanese bomb raids after Pearl Harbor, Keimzelle. ;)
The Norden Bombsight was kept a secret simply for the same reason why any "state of the art" military developement is kept a secret more or less, especially during war-time. You don't go advertizing your technology at your enemy's doorstep. If the article says anything about "advertizing", it should be obvious the original author simply used that as a phrase. "Advertizement" was probably happening between the military brass and the manufacturer, as is always.
Oh please, people. "We have a pretty acurate bombsight that can put a bomb into a pickle barrel from way up" was probably NOT kept "secret", because that was POSITIVE propaganda and encouraged your own side. But surely the *inner workings* of that sight was kept secret just like any other military developement during wartime - and often during peace time as well - is kept a secret. Where exactly is the part here that you don't understand? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.173.46.213 ( talk) 15:18, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
What's a bombsight? -- Abdull 16:23, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Dither currently states:
This seems to partially contradict this page which states:
Ewlyahoocom 14:29, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
John Lienhart of the University of Houston College of Engineering says the secrecy of the Norden bombsight was mostly hype. The device was downgraded from "secret" to "confidential" in 1935 and to "restricted," the lowest classification, in 1942. A Norden employee sold plans for the device to the Germans in 1937 for $3,000, but the Germans never used it because they practiced dive bombing, not strategic bombing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Newschief ( talk • contribs) 01:53, 6 February 2007 (UTC).
This article makes a fairly big deal discussing how the Norden never lived up to its theoretical accuracy, but it is worth asking "what was the alternative?". Depending on the size of the target, 10% of bombs hitting a target from 4 miles in the air seems like it could be considered darned accurate. One must also keep in mind that practically all WWII aerial weapons were wildly inaccurate by modern standards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.110.100 ( talk) 11:14, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Compared to its contemporaries, for one thing. It was not notably more effective than its competitor, the Sperry bombsight or the contemporary British versions. This article (unfortunately behind a paywall) makes the case that the Sperry bombsight was better in many respects: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=90187&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fiel3%2F6%2F2989%2F00090187.pdf%3Farnumber%3D90187 -J Daggar
Based on these articles, the device's existence was certainly not secret at least not by 1940 and may have been acquired by Germany as early as 1938. "A government witness against 16 suspected Nazi spies testified today that he had offered to attempt to obtain the secret of the famed Norden bomb-sight for Germany in 1940; but was told not to bother 'because it already was in the possession of the gestapo'. The witness was William A. Sebold, a naturalized American citizen and former employe of the Consolidated Aircraft Co., of San Diego, Cal., his testimony was in support of United States Attorney Harold M. Kennedy's contention that Germany has had possession of the bomb-sight since 1938." from "Federal Agent says Nazis had bombsight in '38." Jefferson City Post-Tribune. Jefferson City, Missouri. Tuesday, September 09, 1941. Page 4. -- Dual Freq ( talk) 17:27, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
"The "Mr. X" who developed the nation's No. 1 military secret —the jealousy guarded, high accuracy bombsight — is being shielded so carefully it was learned today, that authorities decline to reveal his identity lest his life be endangered." ... "Officials familiar with the sight's performance said that it was an exaggeration to say that the sight could plump a bomb into a pickle barrel unerringly from the altitude of 20,000 feet. He asserted, however, that a small group of bombers equipped with the Norden device could spread a deadly bomb "pattern" over a small target from a great altitude." from "BOMBSIGHT INVENTOR'S IDENTITY KEPT SECRET." Associated Press. Jefferson City Post-Tribune Jefferson City, Missouri. Tuesday, November 26, 1940. Page 6. -- Dual Freq ( talk) 17:27, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Another article from September 1941 says that the Norden bombsight was the inspiration for the film Flying Blind. "Flying Blind." Chillicothe Constitution-Tribune. Chillicothe, Missouri. Saturday, September 20, 1941. Page 6. -- Dual Freq ( talk) 17:27, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Carl Noden is not mentioned in the summary. Shouldn't he deserve a mention? Sbohra 09:01, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
From family lore, my great-uncle Bailey Snider, a graduate of Berkeley and my grandfather's younger half-brother, was one of the many who worked on the development (or improvements) to the Norden bombsight. The only information the family has is about the cross-hairs. The original cross-hair materials available were either too thick for any accuracy, or were too fragile to be stretched tightly enough to provide the straight lines needed. Ultimately, the web strands (silk) of black widow spiders was used for both its strength and its fineness. I don't know the truth of this, but it makes sense, especially since there is still such a demand for this fiber that they have recently genetically modified goats to produce milk from which this same thread can be drawn on a larger scale than milking spiders. Kjj11 ( talk)` —Preceding undated comment added 19:41, 15 December 2011 (UTC).
The Norden Bombsight crosshairs often are said to have been made using the hair of Mary Bobink Brown, who donated them in 1944. However, this has been disputed by at least one aviation museum and a few web pages. The grounds are that Ms Brown donated her hair in 1944, while the sights were trialled in 932 and in war use over germany etc for years before 1944, that there seem to be no records of it having used her hair before President Reagan's letter to her, and that all the bombsights encountered by the museum had etched glass crosshairs,and copies of the bombardier information file issued to bombardiers in 1945 specifically mention etched crosshairs. Barath s ( talk) 10:35, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
One of the bombardiers in this movie indicated that the calculations these women made were fed into the Norden site.
In early December 1941, Betty Jean Jennings was a freshman completing her first semester at a rural Missouri college. In Philadelphia, Doris and Shirley Blumberg were seniors at Girl’s High and Marlyn Wescoff was completing a minor in business machines at Temple University. In an era of limited career opportunities for women, these bright students anticipated low paying careers as schoolteachers or bookkeepers. But on Sunday, December 7, the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and changed these young women’s lives forever. With Pearl Harbor suddenly drawing the US in to WWII, the Army launched a frantic national search for women mathematicians. http://www.topsecretrosies.com/Top_Secret_Rosies/Project_Background.html
Can anyone verify the use and entry process of the calculations in the Norden? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brentvan ( talk • contribs) 16:41, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
The lead has a reference to the naming of this device as "Blue Ox". I read quite a bit on this machine, and have never come across this term before. Looking about at the usual suspects, I can find only a single historical reference to this term, from a Boeing advertisement that ran in a few magazines circa 1942/43. I can find no evidence in any of the other references, or talking to any of the owners or former bombardiers I know, that anyone ever used this term in practice. I am going to move it from the LEAD to the body unless anyone has a good reason not to. Maury Markowitz ( talk) 15:14, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
The "Blue Ox" is also a reference from the WWII era bombardier school at Deming, NM. The class' publication (yearbook, of sorts) was titled "The Blue Ox". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8801:8803:8500:B53F:D848:4194:59BC ( talk) 18:27, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 16:50, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
I discovered that some links to sources, namely Searle and Correll, followed dead or broken links. In the case of Correll, a simple updated format was needed. In the case of Searle, the source can be found in the IEEE's database after some Googling, but requires institutional access. I found a copy of it (in better quality, too) over at http://docslide.us/documents/the-bombsight-war-norden-vs-sperry.html. Since that seems kind of sketchy (and takes forever to load), I rehosted it and changed the link. Lueking ( talk) 22:32, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
In the Basic operation section, two angles are defined: The Norden thus calculated two angles: the range angle based on the altitude, airspeed and ballistics; and the current angle to the target, based on the ground speed and heading of the aircraft. The difference between these two angles represented the "correction" that needed to be applied to bring the aircraft over the proper drop point. In order for this to be correct, each of the two angles must be the angle of the line-of-sight (LOS) to the target. The current angle is the LOS at any point in time during the bomb run. The range angle must be the LOS to the target at the drop point when the end of the bomb trajectory would strike the target. A diagram of this would be of great help. Tvbanfield ( talk) 21:55, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
Not at all astonishing if the bombs are dropped from a height of 20 feet. This information about the height is missing however, which makes the statement useless at best. 91.10.31.154 ( talk) 14:00, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
The text explains the concept adequately by saying: "design that directly measured the aircraft's ground speed and direction, which older bombsights could only estimate with lengthy manual procedures". The jargon adds nothing useful and serves only to confuse all readers except those with the most specialized knowledge, while violating multiple guidelines that urge avoiding use of jargon in lede sections. A piped link that avoids abstruse jargon is a reasonable compromise. DonFB ( talk) 02:00, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
To IP user 2601:196:180:dc0:f420:cbc4:36c1:1932: The section in the Bombsight article linked from the jargon in the lede of the Norden bombsight article begins: "The limitations of vector bombsights (which required a long straight run before dropping the bombs to accommodate windage) led to the development of bombsights based on the field of tacheometry." No further definition or explanation of the term is provided in that section, though you have touted the fact the section is linked as providing an explanation. You have just now removed the last paragraph of that section, which contradicted the first, but the more serious problem remains in forcing readers to chase links around the encyclopedia to learn the meaning of an obscure piece of jargon. Instead of actually defining the jargon, the Bombsight sentence I quoted offers yet another link: to tacheometry. So now the reader, who may merely have wanted a brief overview of Norden Bombsight, is led to a third article to find out what the jargon means. That third article begins by defining its subject as "a system of rapid surveying" "using a tacheometer (a form of theodolite)". Of course, theodolite is linked to its article, for people who may not know what that is. At this point, the reader might chase down that link into a fourth article, or they might happen to scroll past the five paragraphs of the Tacheometry lede into the article body and will see a little more information that may help clarify what tachymetric means.
The multiple guidelines I have cited strongly recommend against using jargon in the lede of articles, but they do say that if a highly technical term seems unavoidable, then at least provide a brief definition as part of the text. You have not made any such suggestion, and in fact you have even pointed out that the body of the Norden article is lacking explanation of the term, which is all the more reason for its exclusion from the lede. The average reader, who almost certainly does not know the jargon, has no choice but to chase the links or continue reading the lede with a sense they're missing important information, or stop reading altogether. One of the guidelines I cited literally says: "Do not unnecessarily make a reader chase links". Have you read that? Virtually no reader will be familiar with the jargon you think is appropriate in the lede; they are not, therefore, missing out on information meaningful to them. They can follow the link from the word design if they're curious and discover the jargon. Or if they decide to pursue the article beyond the lede, they will eventually find the jargon, although, to repeat, it remains inadequately explained, which seems like indifference on the part of editors who think the jargon is so important that it must appear in the lede, where, as I've pointed out, it would serve as a starting point to a chase three or four articles deep. This is not the way to respect and serve readers. DonFB ( talk) 16:24, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
"The bombardier when waited for the target to pass through the second crosshair to time the drop".--Please fix (while i fix other articles). Thanks. 2001:2020:32B:D93D:D080:1137:E89C:E7EB ( talk) 21:55, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
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This article states that the problem of bombs falling at supersonic velocity was hard to solve. I would thik so, since no projectile has a terminal velocity in any medium higher than the speed of sound in that medium.
I'm new here, but the text in this article copies the text found at this page: [1] almost exactly, with a fair amount of original extra words/facts thrown in as well. The page appears to be a US Military site, so maybe it is not a problem, but I figured I'd post this just in case.
The article omits a key point, that is short and to the point, and makes the whole article understandable to the average person. The article does not mention the simple fact that the Bombardier took over certain flight controls from the pilot, for the short duration that they approached the target. They would switch to autopilot, and the Bombardier had Auto-Pilot controls. The Bombardier "dialed in" direction headings into the Auto-Pilot. Marc S. 206.192.35.125 ( talk) 12:21, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
Deleted uncited speculation about Lotfe-7K bombsight.
The article says both that "its existence was a closely guarded secret" and that it was "marketed as the tool to win the war; and it was often touted that the bombsight would drop bombs in pickle barrels". Where was it marketed and who was being touted to if even its existence was a secret? KarlM 06:44, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
Ask the veterans who were stationed at Wake Island, Guadalcanal, Port Moresby etc about Japanese bomb raids after Pearl Harbor, Keimzelle. ;)
The Norden Bombsight was kept a secret simply for the same reason why any "state of the art" military developement is kept a secret more or less, especially during war-time. You don't go advertizing your technology at your enemy's doorstep. If the article says anything about "advertizing", it should be obvious the original author simply used that as a phrase. "Advertizement" was probably happening between the military brass and the manufacturer, as is always.
Oh please, people. "We have a pretty acurate bombsight that can put a bomb into a pickle barrel from way up" was probably NOT kept "secret", because that was POSITIVE propaganda and encouraged your own side. But surely the *inner workings* of that sight was kept secret just like any other military developement during wartime - and often during peace time as well - is kept a secret. Where exactly is the part here that you don't understand? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.173.46.213 ( talk) 15:18, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
What's a bombsight? -- Abdull 16:23, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Dither currently states:
This seems to partially contradict this page which states:
Ewlyahoocom 14:29, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
John Lienhart of the University of Houston College of Engineering says the secrecy of the Norden bombsight was mostly hype. The device was downgraded from "secret" to "confidential" in 1935 and to "restricted," the lowest classification, in 1942. A Norden employee sold plans for the device to the Germans in 1937 for $3,000, but the Germans never used it because they practiced dive bombing, not strategic bombing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Newschief ( talk • contribs) 01:53, 6 February 2007 (UTC).
This article makes a fairly big deal discussing how the Norden never lived up to its theoretical accuracy, but it is worth asking "what was the alternative?". Depending on the size of the target, 10% of bombs hitting a target from 4 miles in the air seems like it could be considered darned accurate. One must also keep in mind that practically all WWII aerial weapons were wildly inaccurate by modern standards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.110.100 ( talk) 11:14, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Compared to its contemporaries, for one thing. It was not notably more effective than its competitor, the Sperry bombsight or the contemporary British versions. This article (unfortunately behind a paywall) makes the case that the Sperry bombsight was better in many respects: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=90187&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fiel3%2F6%2F2989%2F00090187.pdf%3Farnumber%3D90187 -J Daggar
Based on these articles, the device's existence was certainly not secret at least not by 1940 and may have been acquired by Germany as early as 1938. "A government witness against 16 suspected Nazi spies testified today that he had offered to attempt to obtain the secret of the famed Norden bomb-sight for Germany in 1940; but was told not to bother 'because it already was in the possession of the gestapo'. The witness was William A. Sebold, a naturalized American citizen and former employe of the Consolidated Aircraft Co., of San Diego, Cal., his testimony was in support of United States Attorney Harold M. Kennedy's contention that Germany has had possession of the bomb-sight since 1938." from "Federal Agent says Nazis had bombsight in '38." Jefferson City Post-Tribune. Jefferson City, Missouri. Tuesday, September 09, 1941. Page 4. -- Dual Freq ( talk) 17:27, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
"The "Mr. X" who developed the nation's No. 1 military secret —the jealousy guarded, high accuracy bombsight — is being shielded so carefully it was learned today, that authorities decline to reveal his identity lest his life be endangered." ... "Officials familiar with the sight's performance said that it was an exaggeration to say that the sight could plump a bomb into a pickle barrel unerringly from the altitude of 20,000 feet. He asserted, however, that a small group of bombers equipped with the Norden device could spread a deadly bomb "pattern" over a small target from a great altitude." from "BOMBSIGHT INVENTOR'S IDENTITY KEPT SECRET." Associated Press. Jefferson City Post-Tribune Jefferson City, Missouri. Tuesday, November 26, 1940. Page 6. -- Dual Freq ( talk) 17:27, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Another article from September 1941 says that the Norden bombsight was the inspiration for the film Flying Blind. "Flying Blind." Chillicothe Constitution-Tribune. Chillicothe, Missouri. Saturday, September 20, 1941. Page 6. -- Dual Freq ( talk) 17:27, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Carl Noden is not mentioned in the summary. Shouldn't he deserve a mention? Sbohra 09:01, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
From family lore, my great-uncle Bailey Snider, a graduate of Berkeley and my grandfather's younger half-brother, was one of the many who worked on the development (or improvements) to the Norden bombsight. The only information the family has is about the cross-hairs. The original cross-hair materials available were either too thick for any accuracy, or were too fragile to be stretched tightly enough to provide the straight lines needed. Ultimately, the web strands (silk) of black widow spiders was used for both its strength and its fineness. I don't know the truth of this, but it makes sense, especially since there is still such a demand for this fiber that they have recently genetically modified goats to produce milk from which this same thread can be drawn on a larger scale than milking spiders. Kjj11 ( talk)` —Preceding undated comment added 19:41, 15 December 2011 (UTC).
The Norden Bombsight crosshairs often are said to have been made using the hair of Mary Bobink Brown, who donated them in 1944. However, this has been disputed by at least one aviation museum and a few web pages. The grounds are that Ms Brown donated her hair in 1944, while the sights were trialled in 932 and in war use over germany etc for years before 1944, that there seem to be no records of it having used her hair before President Reagan's letter to her, and that all the bombsights encountered by the museum had etched glass crosshairs,and copies of the bombardier information file issued to bombardiers in 1945 specifically mention etched crosshairs. Barath s ( talk) 10:35, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
One of the bombardiers in this movie indicated that the calculations these women made were fed into the Norden site.
In early December 1941, Betty Jean Jennings was a freshman completing her first semester at a rural Missouri college. In Philadelphia, Doris and Shirley Blumberg were seniors at Girl’s High and Marlyn Wescoff was completing a minor in business machines at Temple University. In an era of limited career opportunities for women, these bright students anticipated low paying careers as schoolteachers or bookkeepers. But on Sunday, December 7, the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and changed these young women’s lives forever. With Pearl Harbor suddenly drawing the US in to WWII, the Army launched a frantic national search for women mathematicians. http://www.topsecretrosies.com/Top_Secret_Rosies/Project_Background.html
Can anyone verify the use and entry process of the calculations in the Norden? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brentvan ( talk • contribs) 16:41, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
The lead has a reference to the naming of this device as "Blue Ox". I read quite a bit on this machine, and have never come across this term before. Looking about at the usual suspects, I can find only a single historical reference to this term, from a Boeing advertisement that ran in a few magazines circa 1942/43. I can find no evidence in any of the other references, or talking to any of the owners or former bombardiers I know, that anyone ever used this term in practice. I am going to move it from the LEAD to the body unless anyone has a good reason not to. Maury Markowitz ( talk) 15:14, 25 June 2012 (UTC)
The "Blue Ox" is also a reference from the WWII era bombardier school at Deming, NM. The class' publication (yearbook, of sorts) was titled "The Blue Ox". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8801:8803:8500:B53F:D848:4194:59BC ( talk) 18:27, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 16:50, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
I discovered that some links to sources, namely Searle and Correll, followed dead or broken links. In the case of Correll, a simple updated format was needed. In the case of Searle, the source can be found in the IEEE's database after some Googling, but requires institutional access. I found a copy of it (in better quality, too) over at http://docslide.us/documents/the-bombsight-war-norden-vs-sperry.html. Since that seems kind of sketchy (and takes forever to load), I rehosted it and changed the link. Lueking ( talk) 22:32, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
In the Basic operation section, two angles are defined: The Norden thus calculated two angles: the range angle based on the altitude, airspeed and ballistics; and the current angle to the target, based on the ground speed and heading of the aircraft. The difference between these two angles represented the "correction" that needed to be applied to bring the aircraft over the proper drop point. In order for this to be correct, each of the two angles must be the angle of the line-of-sight (LOS) to the target. The current angle is the LOS at any point in time during the bomb run. The range angle must be the LOS to the target at the drop point when the end of the bomb trajectory would strike the target. A diagram of this would be of great help. Tvbanfield ( talk) 21:55, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
Not at all astonishing if the bombs are dropped from a height of 20 feet. This information about the height is missing however, which makes the statement useless at best. 91.10.31.154 ( talk) 14:00, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
The text explains the concept adequately by saying: "design that directly measured the aircraft's ground speed and direction, which older bombsights could only estimate with lengthy manual procedures". The jargon adds nothing useful and serves only to confuse all readers except those with the most specialized knowledge, while violating multiple guidelines that urge avoiding use of jargon in lede sections. A piped link that avoids abstruse jargon is a reasonable compromise. DonFB ( talk) 02:00, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
To IP user 2601:196:180:dc0:f420:cbc4:36c1:1932: The section in the Bombsight article linked from the jargon in the lede of the Norden bombsight article begins: "The limitations of vector bombsights (which required a long straight run before dropping the bombs to accommodate windage) led to the development of bombsights based on the field of tacheometry." No further definition or explanation of the term is provided in that section, though you have touted the fact the section is linked as providing an explanation. You have just now removed the last paragraph of that section, which contradicted the first, but the more serious problem remains in forcing readers to chase links around the encyclopedia to learn the meaning of an obscure piece of jargon. Instead of actually defining the jargon, the Bombsight sentence I quoted offers yet another link: to tacheometry. So now the reader, who may merely have wanted a brief overview of Norden Bombsight, is led to a third article to find out what the jargon means. That third article begins by defining its subject as "a system of rapid surveying" "using a tacheometer (a form of theodolite)". Of course, theodolite is linked to its article, for people who may not know what that is. At this point, the reader might chase down that link into a fourth article, or they might happen to scroll past the five paragraphs of the Tacheometry lede into the article body and will see a little more information that may help clarify what tachymetric means.
The multiple guidelines I have cited strongly recommend against using jargon in the lede of articles, but they do say that if a highly technical term seems unavoidable, then at least provide a brief definition as part of the text. You have not made any such suggestion, and in fact you have even pointed out that the body of the Norden article is lacking explanation of the term, which is all the more reason for its exclusion from the lede. The average reader, who almost certainly does not know the jargon, has no choice but to chase the links or continue reading the lede with a sense they're missing important information, or stop reading altogether. One of the guidelines I cited literally says: "Do not unnecessarily make a reader chase links". Have you read that? Virtually no reader will be familiar with the jargon you think is appropriate in the lede; they are not, therefore, missing out on information meaningful to them. They can follow the link from the word design if they're curious and discover the jargon. Or if they decide to pursue the article beyond the lede, they will eventually find the jargon, although, to repeat, it remains inadequately explained, which seems like indifference on the part of editors who think the jargon is so important that it must appear in the lede, where, as I've pointed out, it would serve as a starting point to a chase three or four articles deep. This is not the way to respect and serve readers. DonFB ( talk) 16:24, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
"The bombardier when waited for the target to pass through the second crosshair to time the drop".--Please fix (while i fix other articles). Thanks. 2001:2020:32B:D93D:D080:1137:E89C:E7EB ( talk) 21:55, 10 May 2024 (UTC)