![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Several statements of fact here may not be true: !)That Mustafa Hafez was sent to set up the fedayin, when his role may very well have been to try to control them. 2)That said fedayin killed 400 Israeli civilians from 1951 to 56. It is doubtful that 400 Israelis were killed in total during that period, much less civilians killed by the Gaza fedayin. Prime Minister Sharrett's diary probably refutes that assertion, as well as number 1. The reports of the UN Mixed Armistice Commissioners should certainly be examined for evidence of anything like that number of Israelis killed. Regardless of the actual numbers killed, if such ststistics are cited there should be some context and balance provided, such as the fact that Israel was then continuing to expel Palestinians, particularly bedouin expelled to Egypt, and many more Palestinian infiltrators were killed than Israelis. Most of these infiltrators were not guerrilla fighters, but were simply people trying to get back to their homes, to retrieve property or to harvest their crops. The UN had promoted their right of return, and Israel had accepted that right by accepting UN membership under the terms of Resolution 273...Etc.
http://wmca.salemwebnetwork.com/Ministries/Understanding_the_Times/Archives.asp is an interesting source for info on this person... - Mustafaa 15:45, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I don't know; I've seen no evidence that "Arabs for Israel" has any members other than her. Unless a reasonable number of other members can be shown to exist, it might be more appropriate to redirect one to the other. - Mustafaa 15:59, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I think that the wording "claims to be the daughter of a non-Palestinian 'shahid'" ... "claims to have been raised in an atmosphere of hatred for Israelis and Jews" ... "claims to promote reconciliation, acceptance and understanding" implies that Darwish's claims about her background are disputed. Unless there are sources with information demonstrating otherwise, the tone should sound more descriptive and less adversarial.
Newt 21:21, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I still think Nonie Darwish should have her own page, and this page should be about Arabs for Israel. Jayjg 01:28, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I second Ed's suggestion. There is no evidence that her "group" has any members, and its public face appears to be her alone; and, while not very notable, she probably is just about notable enough to deserve an article. - Mustafaa 11:17, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Like Darwish, I am interested in "promoting reconciliation, acceptance and understanding between Israelis and Arabs." I mention this just in case anyone suspects that my agenda conflicts with Wikipedia neutrality guidelines (you heard it from me first). --user:Ed Poor (deep or sour) 15:14, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
This tiny article has the phrase "she says" in it 5 times. I think this is an excessive amount of skepticism, verging on expressing a POV. Jayjg 17:09, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
copied from my user talk page: Well, I have to say I'm pretty surprised by what my article evolved into. It's now unrecognizable from my original, and written completely POV from the perspective of someone who sounds really scared to admit there might be some pro-Israel Arabs out there. It's actually not antithetical to be both pro-Palestinian AND pro-Israel, and there do exist groups that have a more positive approach. However, at this point, it's probably a waste of time for me to exert a lot of effort here, the place has been hijacked by zealots only interested in Israel-bashing and filtering out alternative Arab perspectives. Newt 20:16, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
You think it's POV, specify how. In my experience, there are a whole lot more pro-Zionist zealots on Wikipedia trying to filter out alternative Arab perspectives than there are Israel bashers... - Mustafaa 20:47, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Does anyone knows Nonie's current religion? Is she a Christian now? Or perhaps an Atheist? 88.154.170.171 00:29, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
According to her interview on CNN with Glenn Beck, she never left Islam; she just speaks out against terrorism and discrimination against women in some Muslim countries.
Hello wikipedia. After hours of research, I found about a dozen highly bigoted and racist quotes by Ms. Darwish. I added them to Wikipedia (being careful to provide a link with which anyone could verify that these are her quotes [all of the quotes come from her own websites.]) Unfortunately, someone deleted all of my work. I added it back in and ask that other wikipediaers respect my efforts and research. Lets not censor wikipedia. After anohter 30 minutes of work, I managed to find four videos of her, which I of course provided links to. -- 75.17.191.141 10:21, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
I just noticed that user Humus_Sapiens (who based on his profile is very active in pro-Jewish Wikipedia sites) took out my researched observation that Ms. Darwish offers no guidance on the specific disputes between Arabs and Israelis. For example she offers no guidance on what to do about Israeli settlements. I think this is an important comment because without specific guidance she offers no solution. It's all fine to say we should love eachother and live in peace, but in her opinion, what should be done about these settlements? I discovered this after carefully reading her website and articles, but careful research doesn't stop Humus_Sapiens's censoring mouse and keyboard.
I also noticed that Humus_Sapiens deleted my observation that all of the "facts" in the article are from her mouth only and have not been verified by any source whatsoever. There is no evidence that any of those things happened. Especially dubious is her claim that Nasser came to a little girl and asked her if she would avenge her father's death by killing Jews. This is laughable, but I guess censor Humus_Sapiens doesn't want the credibility of these statements questioned.
It is clear that user Humus_Sapiens is editing this site to present a Pro-Israeli and Pro-Jewish viewpoint. This sort of censoring really should not exist on Wikipedia.
I'm not going to fight these points, as long as my quotes stay in, but I do want to protest. -- 75.17.191.141 10:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
User:Jayjg in this edit [2] removed the following from the article:[snip]
-- Deodar 22:15, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Several statements of fact here may not be true: !)That Mustafa Hafez was sent to set up the fedayin, when his role may very well have been to try to control them. 2)That said fedayin killed 400 Israeli civilians from 1951 to 56. It is doubtful that 400 Israelis were killed in total during that period, much less civilians killed by the Gaza fedayin. Prime Minister Sharrett's diary probably refutes that assertion, as well as number 1. The reports of the UN Mixed Armistice Commissioners should certainly be examined for evidence of anything like that number of Israelis killed. Regardless of the actual numbers killed, if such ststistics are cited there should be some context and balance provided, such as the fact that Israel was then continuing to expel Palestinians, particularly bedouin expelled to Egypt, and many more Palestinian infiltrators were killed than Israelis. Most of these infiltrators were not guerrilla fighters, but were simply people trying to get back to their homes, to retrieve property or to harvest their crops. The UN had promoted their right of return, and Israel had accepted that right by accepting UN membership under the terms of Resolution 273...Etc.
http://wmca.salemwebnetwork.com/Ministries/Understanding_the_Times/Archives.asp is an interesting source for info on this person... - Mustafaa 15:45, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I don't know; I've seen no evidence that "Arabs for Israel" has any members other than her. Unless a reasonable number of other members can be shown to exist, it might be more appropriate to redirect one to the other. - Mustafaa 15:59, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I think that the wording "claims to be the daughter of a non-Palestinian 'shahid'" ... "claims to have been raised in an atmosphere of hatred for Israelis and Jews" ... "claims to promote reconciliation, acceptance and understanding" implies that Darwish's claims about her background are disputed. Unless there are sources with information demonstrating otherwise, the tone should sound more descriptive and less adversarial.
Newt 21:21, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I still think Nonie Darwish should have her own page, and this page should be about Arabs for Israel. Jayjg 01:28, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I second Ed's suggestion. There is no evidence that her "group" has any members, and its public face appears to be her alone; and, while not very notable, she probably is just about notable enough to deserve an article. - Mustafaa 11:17, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Like Darwish, I am interested in "promoting reconciliation, acceptance and understanding between Israelis and Arabs." I mention this just in case anyone suspects that my agenda conflicts with Wikipedia neutrality guidelines (you heard it from me first). --user:Ed Poor (deep or sour) 15:14, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
This tiny article has the phrase "she says" in it 5 times. I think this is an excessive amount of skepticism, verging on expressing a POV. Jayjg 17:09, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
copied from my user talk page: Well, I have to say I'm pretty surprised by what my article evolved into. It's now unrecognizable from my original, and written completely POV from the perspective of someone who sounds really scared to admit there might be some pro-Israel Arabs out there. It's actually not antithetical to be both pro-Palestinian AND pro-Israel, and there do exist groups that have a more positive approach. However, at this point, it's probably a waste of time for me to exert a lot of effort here, the place has been hijacked by zealots only interested in Israel-bashing and filtering out alternative Arab perspectives. Newt 20:16, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
You think it's POV, specify how. In my experience, there are a whole lot more pro-Zionist zealots on Wikipedia trying to filter out alternative Arab perspectives than there are Israel bashers... - Mustafaa 20:47, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Does anyone knows Nonie's current religion? Is she a Christian now? Or perhaps an Atheist? 88.154.170.171 00:29, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
According to her interview on CNN with Glenn Beck, she never left Islam; she just speaks out against terrorism and discrimination against women in some Muslim countries.
Hello wikipedia. After hours of research, I found about a dozen highly bigoted and racist quotes by Ms. Darwish. I added them to Wikipedia (being careful to provide a link with which anyone could verify that these are her quotes [all of the quotes come from her own websites.]) Unfortunately, someone deleted all of my work. I added it back in and ask that other wikipediaers respect my efforts and research. Lets not censor wikipedia. After anohter 30 minutes of work, I managed to find four videos of her, which I of course provided links to. -- 75.17.191.141 10:21, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
I just noticed that user Humus_Sapiens (who based on his profile is very active in pro-Jewish Wikipedia sites) took out my researched observation that Ms. Darwish offers no guidance on the specific disputes between Arabs and Israelis. For example she offers no guidance on what to do about Israeli settlements. I think this is an important comment because without specific guidance she offers no solution. It's all fine to say we should love eachother and live in peace, but in her opinion, what should be done about these settlements? I discovered this after carefully reading her website and articles, but careful research doesn't stop Humus_Sapiens's censoring mouse and keyboard.
I also noticed that Humus_Sapiens deleted my observation that all of the "facts" in the article are from her mouth only and have not been verified by any source whatsoever. There is no evidence that any of those things happened. Especially dubious is her claim that Nasser came to a little girl and asked her if she would avenge her father's death by killing Jews. This is laughable, but I guess censor Humus_Sapiens doesn't want the credibility of these statements questioned.
It is clear that user Humus_Sapiens is editing this site to present a Pro-Israeli and Pro-Jewish viewpoint. This sort of censoring really should not exist on Wikipedia.
I'm not going to fight these points, as long as my quotes stay in, but I do want to protest. -- 75.17.191.141 10:33, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
User:Jayjg in this edit [2] removed the following from the article:[snip]
-- Deodar 22:15, 19 October 2006 (UTC)