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![]() | This article contains a translation of Niominka from fr.wikipedia. |
The result of the move request was: Consensus to move to original name essentially reverting an undiscussed move after several years of stability at the original name. Mike Cline ( talk) 20:00, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
Serer-Niominka →
Niominka – The Niominka are a distinct ethnic group with a distinctive history. Most reliable sources call them simply "Niominka", not "Serer-Niominka". They may be currently grouped together with Serer for linguistic reasons, but that was not always the case. The title minimizes their distinctive history and culture. Moreover, the ethnicity of the original Niominka is uncertain, an unresolved item of debate, so affixing a Serer prefix is imposing a particular POV as to their ethnic origin. Finally, since existing Niominka are today a small and vulnerable population, subsuming them under their larger neighbors is not devoid of political implications. To restore neutrality, the title should be restored to simply "Niominka" (the title of the article up until a month or so ago).
Walrasiad (
talk)
18:02, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
Tamsier ( talk) 05:59, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
To clarify: the author of the comment above (Tamsier) is the person who originally moved the long-standing page "Niominka" to "Serer-Niominka" recently. This is a title issue. Niominka are overwhelmingly referred to as "Niominka" in the scholarly literature, e.g. a quick googlebooks search turns up 11,000 references to Niominka, vs. 283 Serer-Niominka. "Niominka" is historically the name by which they have been known and referred to. Their origins are uncertain. Hyphenating them as Serer-Niominka in the title implies they have always been Serer, which is a debatable POV. If you want to comment on their current links to Serer, that can be done in the article text. But a particular debatable POV should not be imposed in the title. Walrasiad ( talk) 06:28, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian ( talk) 06:22, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
Niominka →
Niominka people – Move "Niominka" to "Niominka people" as per WP custom on ethnic groups, and in alignment with article titles for other ethnic groups in Senegal (e.g. "Wolof people", "Lebou people", etc.)
Walrasiad (
talk)
08:12, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
I've gone through page 73 of "Islam and Imperialism in Senegal, Sine-Saloum, 1847-1914, by Martin A. Klein. According to the history section, the editor wrote :
Gone through page 73 (even page 71-5) but Klein never said that. Is editor using the following passage (below) and adding 1 and 1 to make 4?
"The predominantly Moslim population of the French and English trading settlements also was sympathetic to the Tijani reformer [Maba]."
Oh by the way I have the book, and not reading it from snippits.
Also which Serer migrated from the north? There were some Serers who indeed migrated from the north (the Serer community of Tekrur in the 11th century), but there were Serers who where indigenious to the Gambia. That's why I asked which. The Serer community is very diverse and cannot be compartmentalize. I would also take it that editor didn't know the Mandinkas are not indigenous to the Gambia. They migrated from Mali in the 13th-16 centuries.
One last point, the Niominkas did not borrow rice farming from Mandinkas, if anything, they borrowed rice production from the Diola people not Mandinka. [1]. Tamsier ( talk)
EDIT: Gone through p 78. Your quote above is correct. I notice that he is quoting Lafont. Lafont did write a book on the Niominka. I'm sure I have him somewhere. For the time being I will remove the tags. Tamsier ( talk) 13:37, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article contains a translation of Niominka from fr.wikipedia. |
The result of the move request was: Consensus to move to original name essentially reverting an undiscussed move after several years of stability at the original name. Mike Cline ( talk) 20:00, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
Serer-Niominka →
Niominka – The Niominka are a distinct ethnic group with a distinctive history. Most reliable sources call them simply "Niominka", not "Serer-Niominka". They may be currently grouped together with Serer for linguistic reasons, but that was not always the case. The title minimizes their distinctive history and culture. Moreover, the ethnicity of the original Niominka is uncertain, an unresolved item of debate, so affixing a Serer prefix is imposing a particular POV as to their ethnic origin. Finally, since existing Niominka are today a small and vulnerable population, subsuming them under their larger neighbors is not devoid of political implications. To restore neutrality, the title should be restored to simply "Niominka" (the title of the article up until a month or so ago).
Walrasiad (
talk)
18:02, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
Tamsier ( talk) 05:59, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
To clarify: the author of the comment above (Tamsier) is the person who originally moved the long-standing page "Niominka" to "Serer-Niominka" recently. This is a title issue. Niominka are overwhelmingly referred to as "Niominka" in the scholarly literature, e.g. a quick googlebooks search turns up 11,000 references to Niominka, vs. 283 Serer-Niominka. "Niominka" is historically the name by which they have been known and referred to. Their origins are uncertain. Hyphenating them as Serer-Niominka in the title implies they have always been Serer, which is a debatable POV. If you want to comment on their current links to Serer, that can be done in the article text. But a particular debatable POV should not be imposed in the title. Walrasiad ( talk) 06:28, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian ( talk) 06:22, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
Niominka →
Niominka people – Move "Niominka" to "Niominka people" as per WP custom on ethnic groups, and in alignment with article titles for other ethnic groups in Senegal (e.g. "Wolof people", "Lebou people", etc.)
Walrasiad (
talk)
08:12, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
I've gone through page 73 of "Islam and Imperialism in Senegal, Sine-Saloum, 1847-1914, by Martin A. Klein. According to the history section, the editor wrote :
Gone through page 73 (even page 71-5) but Klein never said that. Is editor using the following passage (below) and adding 1 and 1 to make 4?
"The predominantly Moslim population of the French and English trading settlements also was sympathetic to the Tijani reformer [Maba]."
Oh by the way I have the book, and not reading it from snippits.
Also which Serer migrated from the north? There were some Serers who indeed migrated from the north (the Serer community of Tekrur in the 11th century), but there were Serers who where indigenious to the Gambia. That's why I asked which. The Serer community is very diverse and cannot be compartmentalize. I would also take it that editor didn't know the Mandinkas are not indigenous to the Gambia. They migrated from Mali in the 13th-16 centuries.
One last point, the Niominkas did not borrow rice farming from Mandinkas, if anything, they borrowed rice production from the Diola people not Mandinka. [1]. Tamsier ( talk)
EDIT: Gone through p 78. Your quote above is correct. I notice that he is quoting Lafont. Lafont did write a book on the Niominka. I'm sure I have him somewhere. For the time being I will remove the tags. Tamsier ( talk) 13:37, 24 March 2012 (UTC)