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It needs an AfD to determine community consensus. The circumstances surrounding her death and the events that followed have been a notable controversy in its own right. It clearly asserts some kind of significance-- h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 01:48, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was no move. — An gr If you've written a quality article... 09:32, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Nikki Catsouras → 2006 Alton Parkway automobile crash — Or any other title decided upon by discussion. My preference is for any title which does not include her name. This article is not a biography. It has no writing about the life of the young woman in question, whom I strongly doubt had any coverage in secondary sources prior to her tragic death. Rather, it's an article about a car accident and the lawsuit which occurred in its aftermath. Per WP:BIO1E, this article should be retitled to focus on the event rather than the person. — cab ( talk) 05:30, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.So why is whether she was drunk still unknown? I'm sure an autopsy was done, no news reported it? From what I know about the story and the sources I found just doing a Google search, she had alcohol in her bloodstream. The story is also a little longer, some background about why she took the car would clear somethings up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.120.107.174 ( talk) 01:02, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Correct, no alcohol. Just cocaine from the day prior. She was set to meet with a specialist with brain issues the afternoon of her death but unfortunately, never made it. Jrock77420 ( talk) 06:40, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
Please stop posting links to the photographs. I understand that it can be argued that they are germane to the entry, but I hope that most editors would agree that they are inappropriate for obvious reasons. Wperdue ( talk) 18:28, 2 May 2009 (UTC)wperdue
Please See
Prince Albert Piercing and it's talk page before deciding what's appropriate for everyone else. The discussion on that page is very relevant.
24.18.115.169 (
talk)
20:05, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
This seems to be the same situation that was faced when newspapers began reporting on the Danish cartoons controversy: Many Muslims believed that the cartoons should not be shown because they were too controversial, but readers demanded the right to make their own informed judgment (which required them to be able to see the material). The point of the story is not that the poor girl died, the point is that a controversy has arisen around photographs taken of her body. The photographs ARE the story, and not printing them is scholarly flinching. Telling someone that "they are gory" is no more helpful than telling someone they don't need to see the (pretty bland and unfunny) cartoons for themselves because they "offensive". For better or for worse, the relative offensiveness of these pictures is of serious importance to understanding this story. The right to make all public information freely available to all abrogates the right of a minority not to be offended. It's unfortunate that these photos were released in the first place, but by bringing this to public attention Newsweek and the Catsouras have unwittingly moved themselves and the photos into the sphere of public interest. An encyclopedia has the ethical duty to record the entire relevant truth and nothing more. The ethical breech has already occurred and these photos are already in the public record, to ignore them is silly.
Also, "cocaine had recently been ingested by Nicole" is passive and weird. "Nichole ingested" works better. Also, the phrase "the leakage of photographs" sounds weird. "The leaking of photographs" would be more common. "Leakage" implies that the photographs themselves are releasing some sort of fluid, like "leakage of batteries". Gross, especially in context.
Forgot my ID. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.163.171.63 ( talk) 11:42, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
While an encyclopedia may have an "ethical duty to record the entire relevant truth," I do question whether actually providing where the photos can be found is part of recording the relevant truth. I find it exceedingly difficult to believe, for example, that Encyclopedia Britannica would either a) print the photos itself, or b) say "go here to find them." The photos are fairly easy to find if you want to (as evidenced by their having been in the top ten US Google searches all day yesterday). I think that comparing this to the cartoons controversy is not quite fair; one was potentially offensive to religious beliefs, whereas the other is an exceedingly graphic picture of a corpse. I may be splitting hairs, but I would suggest that different standards of allowing people "to make their own informed judgment" are in play. fourmajorman ( talk) 15:48, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
This is ridiculous. Regardless of how offended some users here may be about these pictures, it is not only NOT against the rules to post such pictures...but REQUIRED by the rules in relation to POV and bias. Repost the pictures back on Wikipedia. And keep your sad comments about personal preferance to yourselves. 58.164.241.39 ( talk) 16:11, 25 October 2009 (UTC) Sutter Cane
Isn't there a legal issue regarding the photos being released to begin with? I.e. should you be showing or linking to photos the origin of which on the web is being contested in court? Docsavage20 ( talk) 05:39, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Just putting it out there, someone earlier this year put some of the photos up on Wikimedia Commons. Two of them just show the wrecked car but the other two do show Nikki's body. AlikeTurkey ( talk) 00:52, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
Someone is using this tragedy to distribute malware. Some of the links for the photos include a further link to the "Crash" viseo, which then invites you to download a YouTube viewer or some such thing.
This is in fact malware. It should be picked up by most anti-virus programs, but then again, who really knows?
Can this info be included in the locked article here? It is well cited by third party sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.70.160.153 ( talk) 22:30, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
The fact is there is NO video footage of the accident. Only the photos from afterwards. A couple of wide shots of the scene, close up of the flipped over Porsche, the car she swiped before hitting the tollbooth, a csi picking up any evidence and the infamous photos showing Nichole's horrific condition post accident. Jrock77420 ( talk) 06:43, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
What does "Dnepropetrovsk maniacs" article have anything to do with the tragedy of Catsouras family? The 'See also' section should contain articles of very similiar cases, like in the article "Suicide of Megan Meier" has the link to "Suicide of Ryan Halligan". Even "Jacqueline Saburido" has better links to articles such as "Driving while intoxicated" or "Burn injury". I dont see the point. Or at least it could have more links to more related articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.63.21.66 ( talk) 01:22, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
It looks like there will be further legal action related to this matter. Unfortunately, the PDF of the court ruling cited at [2] is not working.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 09:01, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
Re this edit. The main concern here was consistency with the sourcing. They are described as CHP officers in the cite at [3]. Please cite the description of the men as dispatch supervisors.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 07:10, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Page 2 of source [2] states, "After an internal investigation, the California Highway Patrol identified two dispatchers, Thomas O'Donnell and Aaron Reich as being responsible for the leaked images." Note, the use of the word "dispatchers." California Public Safety Dispatchers are sworn civilian employees, not officers of the law.
Page 3 of the first source mentioned also states the photos "had been leaked by two CHP dispatchers."—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.49.108.201 ( talk) 00:31, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm not going to edit war over the "see also" link to Dnepropetrovsk maniacs. The reason for adding this is that, like the Nikki Catsouras photographs, the Yatzenko video and other material was obtained during the course of a police investigation, and was never intended to end up causing ghoulish fascination on the Internet. This makes it different from beheading videos, which were made as deliberate propaganda by radical Islamic groups. The Nikki Catsouras photos and the Maniacs case (3Guys1Hammer) are both on Encyclopedia Dramatica, although the article does not mention this.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 08:10, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
After some edit warring over the name, here is a photograph of her grave, with the name as Nikki Catsouras (click on the image for the full size version). While the name Nikki Mayo Catsouras may be on her death certificate, it would run into problems with WP:PRIMARY and WP:COMMONNAME. I could not find any news coverage on Google with this name, so it would have to stay out of the article for the time being.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 21:57, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Her full name at birth was Nichole Elise Mayo Catsouras. She didn't use "Mayo" in her day to day life and just wanted to be known as Nichole Elise Catsouras. Jrock77420 ( talk) 06:48, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
I read a couple places that her and her father got into an argument before she took the car because she was using cocaine, why is there no mention of this? Zdawg1029 ( talk) 14:55, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
Truth is (and I just added to Wikipedia story) they did get into an argument about her smoking a cigarette in the house. Her father took away her keys. Probably another reason she took her father's Porsche, along with her issue with impulse control. As a child she was diagnosed with a brain tumor which turned out to be benign. However she did go through chemotherapy which caused issues for her later in life. Hence the lack of impulse control. And she did have cocaine in her system from the day prior. She was set to see a brain specialist the afternoon of her death but unfortunately, did not make it there. Jrock77420 ( talk) 06:46, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
Here's my point,Nikki Catsouras is just another teen drunk driver,A car crashed in Omaha this year,Into a building and it caught fire. There is no exsisting Wikipedia article on said subject. The only thing that makes this notable,is that they were leaked onto the internet. The Picture of the SUV was all over the news in omaha I will elaborate on this point later — Preceding unsigned comment added by Russianarmy13 ( talk • contribs) 17:38, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for clearing that up,But still,This isn't going to help anybody with finding out stuff. Why is it such a big deal? It's not enough to warrant a stub either. It is incredibly biased and should be either re-written or removed entirely,While I despise them,Trolls are human beings and this makes them seem less then human. Not all trolls are stupidheads. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Russianarmy13 ( talk • contribs) 19:28, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
Yes, IanMacM is correct. She was NOT drunk at the time of the accident. She did have traces of cocaine in her system from the day prior. And just to clear this all up, here is a brief backstory not shown here on Wikipedia. Nikki was diagnosed at 7 years old with a brain tumor and not expected to live. The tumor was later found to be benign however, she underwent numerous sessions of chemotherapy which doctors stated would have adverse effects on her later in life, most notable her impulse control. Nikki was set to see a specialist on the day of her death but did not make it there unfortunately. Nikki was a beautiful, young and loving daughter and older sister. She has issues caused a lot by screw ups by doctors as a child. I have covered the Nichole Catsouras story extensively and write several articles about it so I know as many facts as can be known. If you wish to know more or have any questions, I would be happy to help. Jrock77420 ( talk) 06:56, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
I’m surprised I have seen the censored images and I noticed she was decapated Dovesocool ( talk) 08:02, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Nikki Catsouras photographs controversy article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was nominated for
deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:
|
It needs an AfD to determine community consensus. The circumstances surrounding her death and the events that followed have been a notable controversy in its own right. It clearly asserts some kind of significance-- h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 01:48, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was no move. — An gr If you've written a quality article... 09:32, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Nikki Catsouras → 2006 Alton Parkway automobile crash — Or any other title decided upon by discussion. My preference is for any title which does not include her name. This article is not a biography. It has no writing about the life of the young woman in question, whom I strongly doubt had any coverage in secondary sources prior to her tragic death. Rather, it's an article about a car accident and the lawsuit which occurred in its aftermath. Per WP:BIO1E, this article should be retitled to focus on the event rather than the person. — cab ( talk) 05:30, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.So why is whether she was drunk still unknown? I'm sure an autopsy was done, no news reported it? From what I know about the story and the sources I found just doing a Google search, she had alcohol in her bloodstream. The story is also a little longer, some background about why she took the car would clear somethings up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.120.107.174 ( talk) 01:02, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Correct, no alcohol. Just cocaine from the day prior. She was set to meet with a specialist with brain issues the afternoon of her death but unfortunately, never made it. Jrock77420 ( talk) 06:40, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
Please stop posting links to the photographs. I understand that it can be argued that they are germane to the entry, but I hope that most editors would agree that they are inappropriate for obvious reasons. Wperdue ( talk) 18:28, 2 May 2009 (UTC)wperdue
Please See
Prince Albert Piercing and it's talk page before deciding what's appropriate for everyone else. The discussion on that page is very relevant.
24.18.115.169 (
talk)
20:05, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
This seems to be the same situation that was faced when newspapers began reporting on the Danish cartoons controversy: Many Muslims believed that the cartoons should not be shown because they were too controversial, but readers demanded the right to make their own informed judgment (which required them to be able to see the material). The point of the story is not that the poor girl died, the point is that a controversy has arisen around photographs taken of her body. The photographs ARE the story, and not printing them is scholarly flinching. Telling someone that "they are gory" is no more helpful than telling someone they don't need to see the (pretty bland and unfunny) cartoons for themselves because they "offensive". For better or for worse, the relative offensiveness of these pictures is of serious importance to understanding this story. The right to make all public information freely available to all abrogates the right of a minority not to be offended. It's unfortunate that these photos were released in the first place, but by bringing this to public attention Newsweek and the Catsouras have unwittingly moved themselves and the photos into the sphere of public interest. An encyclopedia has the ethical duty to record the entire relevant truth and nothing more. The ethical breech has already occurred and these photos are already in the public record, to ignore them is silly.
Also, "cocaine had recently been ingested by Nicole" is passive and weird. "Nichole ingested" works better. Also, the phrase "the leakage of photographs" sounds weird. "The leaking of photographs" would be more common. "Leakage" implies that the photographs themselves are releasing some sort of fluid, like "leakage of batteries". Gross, especially in context.
Forgot my ID. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.163.171.63 ( talk) 11:42, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
While an encyclopedia may have an "ethical duty to record the entire relevant truth," I do question whether actually providing where the photos can be found is part of recording the relevant truth. I find it exceedingly difficult to believe, for example, that Encyclopedia Britannica would either a) print the photos itself, or b) say "go here to find them." The photos are fairly easy to find if you want to (as evidenced by their having been in the top ten US Google searches all day yesterday). I think that comparing this to the cartoons controversy is not quite fair; one was potentially offensive to religious beliefs, whereas the other is an exceedingly graphic picture of a corpse. I may be splitting hairs, but I would suggest that different standards of allowing people "to make their own informed judgment" are in play. fourmajorman ( talk) 15:48, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
This is ridiculous. Regardless of how offended some users here may be about these pictures, it is not only NOT against the rules to post such pictures...but REQUIRED by the rules in relation to POV and bias. Repost the pictures back on Wikipedia. And keep your sad comments about personal preferance to yourselves. 58.164.241.39 ( talk) 16:11, 25 October 2009 (UTC) Sutter Cane
Isn't there a legal issue regarding the photos being released to begin with? I.e. should you be showing or linking to photos the origin of which on the web is being contested in court? Docsavage20 ( talk) 05:39, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Just putting it out there, someone earlier this year put some of the photos up on Wikimedia Commons. Two of them just show the wrecked car but the other two do show Nikki's body. AlikeTurkey ( talk) 00:52, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
Someone is using this tragedy to distribute malware. Some of the links for the photos include a further link to the "Crash" viseo, which then invites you to download a YouTube viewer or some such thing.
This is in fact malware. It should be picked up by most anti-virus programs, but then again, who really knows?
Can this info be included in the locked article here? It is well cited by third party sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.70.160.153 ( talk) 22:30, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
The fact is there is NO video footage of the accident. Only the photos from afterwards. A couple of wide shots of the scene, close up of the flipped over Porsche, the car she swiped before hitting the tollbooth, a csi picking up any evidence and the infamous photos showing Nichole's horrific condition post accident. Jrock77420 ( talk) 06:43, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
What does "Dnepropetrovsk maniacs" article have anything to do with the tragedy of Catsouras family? The 'See also' section should contain articles of very similiar cases, like in the article "Suicide of Megan Meier" has the link to "Suicide of Ryan Halligan". Even "Jacqueline Saburido" has better links to articles such as "Driving while intoxicated" or "Burn injury". I dont see the point. Or at least it could have more links to more related articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.63.21.66 ( talk) 01:22, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
It looks like there will be further legal action related to this matter. Unfortunately, the PDF of the court ruling cited at [2] is not working.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 09:01, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
Re this edit. The main concern here was consistency with the sourcing. They are described as CHP officers in the cite at [3]. Please cite the description of the men as dispatch supervisors.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 07:10, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
Page 2 of source [2] states, "After an internal investigation, the California Highway Patrol identified two dispatchers, Thomas O'Donnell and Aaron Reich as being responsible for the leaked images." Note, the use of the word "dispatchers." California Public Safety Dispatchers are sworn civilian employees, not officers of the law.
Page 3 of the first source mentioned also states the photos "had been leaked by two CHP dispatchers."—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.49.108.201 ( talk) 00:31, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
I'm not going to edit war over the "see also" link to Dnepropetrovsk maniacs. The reason for adding this is that, like the Nikki Catsouras photographs, the Yatzenko video and other material was obtained during the course of a police investigation, and was never intended to end up causing ghoulish fascination on the Internet. This makes it different from beheading videos, which were made as deliberate propaganda by radical Islamic groups. The Nikki Catsouras photos and the Maniacs case (3Guys1Hammer) are both on Encyclopedia Dramatica, although the article does not mention this.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 08:10, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
After some edit warring over the name, here is a photograph of her grave, with the name as Nikki Catsouras (click on the image for the full size version). While the name Nikki Mayo Catsouras may be on her death certificate, it would run into problems with WP:PRIMARY and WP:COMMONNAME. I could not find any news coverage on Google with this name, so it would have to stay out of the article for the time being.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 21:57, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Her full name at birth was Nichole Elise Mayo Catsouras. She didn't use "Mayo" in her day to day life and just wanted to be known as Nichole Elise Catsouras. Jrock77420 ( talk) 06:48, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
I read a couple places that her and her father got into an argument before she took the car because she was using cocaine, why is there no mention of this? Zdawg1029 ( talk) 14:55, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
Truth is (and I just added to Wikipedia story) they did get into an argument about her smoking a cigarette in the house. Her father took away her keys. Probably another reason she took her father's Porsche, along with her issue with impulse control. As a child she was diagnosed with a brain tumor which turned out to be benign. However she did go through chemotherapy which caused issues for her later in life. Hence the lack of impulse control. And she did have cocaine in her system from the day prior. She was set to see a brain specialist the afternoon of her death but unfortunately, did not make it there. Jrock77420 ( talk) 06:46, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
Here's my point,Nikki Catsouras is just another teen drunk driver,A car crashed in Omaha this year,Into a building and it caught fire. There is no exsisting Wikipedia article on said subject. The only thing that makes this notable,is that they were leaked onto the internet. The Picture of the SUV was all over the news in omaha I will elaborate on this point later — Preceding unsigned comment added by Russianarmy13 ( talk • contribs) 17:38, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for clearing that up,But still,This isn't going to help anybody with finding out stuff. Why is it such a big deal? It's not enough to warrant a stub either. It is incredibly biased and should be either re-written or removed entirely,While I despise them,Trolls are human beings and this makes them seem less then human. Not all trolls are stupidheads. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Russianarmy13 ( talk • contribs) 19:28, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
Yes, IanMacM is correct. She was NOT drunk at the time of the accident. She did have traces of cocaine in her system from the day prior. And just to clear this all up, here is a brief backstory not shown here on Wikipedia. Nikki was diagnosed at 7 years old with a brain tumor and not expected to live. The tumor was later found to be benign however, she underwent numerous sessions of chemotherapy which doctors stated would have adverse effects on her later in life, most notable her impulse control. Nikki was set to see a specialist on the day of her death but did not make it there unfortunately. Nikki was a beautiful, young and loving daughter and older sister. She has issues caused a lot by screw ups by doctors as a child. I have covered the Nichole Catsouras story extensively and write several articles about it so I know as many facts as can be known. If you wish to know more or have any questions, I would be happy to help. Jrock77420 ( talk) 06:56, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
I’m surprised I have seen the censored images and I noticed she was decapated Dovesocool ( talk) 08:02, 30 March 2024 (UTC)