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Have tried to lift the quality of this article. It tried to do too many things, and lost focus on the Movement as an organization.
1) Have marked this page for insufficient (and inappropriate) sourcing. These need to be fixed or removed.
2) Waitangi Treaty - simplistic assertion with no evidence.
2) Removed irrelevent reference to the Electoral Reform Coalition.
3) Why is the Head of State Referenda Bill listed here? It is not the work of the movement.
4) Recent events looks like a diary, not an encyclopedia. The vast majority of these "events" are unworthy of encyclopedic inclusion. They can't really be said to meet the "notability guidelines" as laid out. This looks like self-promotion which is not acceptable in wikipedia.
5) Removed Election of Governor General because it is not an event as laid out in wiki guidelines. Furthermore, the source is self-published and factually incorrect anyway.
6) Added movement's support of Locke's bill. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.216.172.138 ( talk) 06:22, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Gavin made an edit of this page claiming that the final point of the RMs principles stating:-
This is incorrect. The very nature of the British Commonwealth was changed in 1950 to the Commonwealth of Nations exactly because India chose to become a republic WITHIN the Commonwealth. Thus, the claim that republics automatically cease to be members of the Commonwealth is incorrect; the protocol is that they are required to reapply for membership of the Commonwealth at a CHOGM. A lapsing of membership and a requirement to simply reapply for it are not one in the same thing. Further, as we saw in the case of Fiji in 1987, the Commonwealth membership only allows membership of states to lapse where there is disagreement between Commonwealth principles regarding the nature of a government and the state applying for membership. Because all decisions are made by the Commonwealth membership are by consensus, and historically virtually all re-applying members that have become republics (No Gavin, South Africa didn't reapply) have maintained membership, the claim is incorrect. -- Lholden 07:31, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
"Let me make it absolutely clear that, whatever the outcome of the referendum, there is no question of Australia's membership of the Commonwealth being in doubt."
Then, in the lead up to the 2006 Commonwealth Games, the ARM approached the current Secretary-General of the Commonwealth, Don McKinnon (a New Zealander, I might add - who was a minister in Jim Bolger's government) to confirm the precise situation of republics within the Commonwealth. His letter of 9 November 2005 states in part:
"Let me confirm that a country’s position as a member of the Commonwealth is unaffected by a constitutional change in its status to become a republic… ever since the London Agreement of 1949, republican forms of government have been entirely compatible with Commonwealth membership… any constitutional change in Australia to become a republic would not affect its membership in the Commonwealth."
These two statements confirm that a Commonwealth member doesn't simply loose its membership by becoming a republic; therefore the principle stands.
The claim was that on becoming a republic, a state automatically looses its membership of the Commonwealth and because they have to "reapply" for it. There is no legal reason why membership lapses when a state becomes a republic, as the mechanism for membership applications - in the words of the Commonwealth - is for "continued membership with its renewed status". There is not some gap between becoming a republic and reapplying for membership and being granted continued membership, the state remains a member unless - in the case of Fiji and South Africa - their application lapses. This indicates that membership is not abrogated by becoming a republic, but by the lapse of the membership reapplication. The fact that the application is a formality cofirms this. I said before that "A lapsing of membership and a requirement to simply reapply for it are not one in the same thing"; on the facts of the Fijian exit from the Commonwealth, or the South African membership of the Commonwealth this is certainly the case.
Aside from the article actually stating the aims and principles of the orgainisation; the claim that somehow this principle is a disingenuous "service to republicanism" is incorrect. The principle only came about because of disingenuous arguments by monarchists about Commonwealth membership in the first place. Any literal reading of the principle favours the view that New Zealand would not be "required" to leave the Commonwealth on becoming a republic, and as I have stated above, membership certainly doesn't lapse when a state becomes a republic. -- Lholden 00:49, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Gavin, your statement that the Secretary-General's comments only relate to Australia is plain silly; obviously you conceed they support my view, else there would be no need to dispute their application to New Zealand. I think it would be very strange for the Secretary-General to make a statement that did not have application to all Commonwealth Realms regarding this issue. I also add that your statement that it was Chief Anyaoku not Don McKinnon who made the 3 November 1999 statement (The difference in dates is probably due to time differences between Aussie and the UK) shows that you're not actually reading what I've written. Don McKinnon made a statement in the lead up to the 2006 Commonwealth Games when the monarchists once again used the same arguments you're using here to make a point on Commonwealth membership.
Firstly you say the the principle that "Creating a republic does not require any change to... Commonwealth membership" is incorrect by stating that: "When a country becomes a republic membership ends. Period."; on the basis that "Having to reapply infers that membership has been revoked". Secondly you also say that the principle is incorrect because the possibility of membership ceasing by rejection of an application. There is a logical flaw here: If membership "ceases" when an application for it is rejected at CHOGM; it logically could not have ceased at the time when the state in question became a republic. I'm sure you'll say that what you really meant was that membership is not "restored"; but again I say look at the wording of the Commonwealth Secretariat - they actually infer the membership continues from the time a republic is declared.
Having to re-apply for membership doesn't mean your membership has ceased. Changes in constitutional circumstances, as both Secretary-Generals state, do not in and of themselves cause the cessation of membership. New Zealand electoral law works in the same way; you have to re-register to vote if you change electorates (or ridings if you will), but that requirement only has to do with telling the Electoral Commission that you've changed electorates. You don't loose your voter registration when you move, simply because you have to re-register doesn't mean that your registration has lapsed. The same applies to Commonwealth membership.
In answer to your three points:
To say that New Zealand might be rejected because of discrimination against Maori is laughable. It is not disingenious to state that will will not be required to change our membership of the Commonwealth should we become a republic, not is it disingenious to exclude speculative claims that somehow New Zealand might just be excluded for an invented reason from Commonwealth membership in the future should it become a republic. What is disingenious is arguing that somehow membership of the Commonwealth ceases the minute a state becomes a republic because the state has to re-apply for membership. Clearly you're using this argument as a way of "showing" that Commonwealth membership will be lost should New Zealand become a republic and will have to be regained. That is not correct, and it is not disingenious to not state something that is not a fact. -- Lholden 02:41, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
jee, the vandel [3] must of been on to something. A member of the National Council had reverted in under a minute :P Brian | (Talk) 04:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
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Have tried to lift the quality of this article. It tried to do too many things, and lost focus on the Movement as an organization.
1) Have marked this page for insufficient (and inappropriate) sourcing. These need to be fixed or removed.
2) Waitangi Treaty - simplistic assertion with no evidence.
2) Removed irrelevent reference to the Electoral Reform Coalition.
3) Why is the Head of State Referenda Bill listed here? It is not the work of the movement.
4) Recent events looks like a diary, not an encyclopedia. The vast majority of these "events" are unworthy of encyclopedic inclusion. They can't really be said to meet the "notability guidelines" as laid out. This looks like self-promotion which is not acceptable in wikipedia.
5) Removed Election of Governor General because it is not an event as laid out in wiki guidelines. Furthermore, the source is self-published and factually incorrect anyway.
6) Added movement's support of Locke's bill. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.216.172.138 ( talk) 06:22, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Gavin made an edit of this page claiming that the final point of the RMs principles stating:-
This is incorrect. The very nature of the British Commonwealth was changed in 1950 to the Commonwealth of Nations exactly because India chose to become a republic WITHIN the Commonwealth. Thus, the claim that republics automatically cease to be members of the Commonwealth is incorrect; the protocol is that they are required to reapply for membership of the Commonwealth at a CHOGM. A lapsing of membership and a requirement to simply reapply for it are not one in the same thing. Further, as we saw in the case of Fiji in 1987, the Commonwealth membership only allows membership of states to lapse where there is disagreement between Commonwealth principles regarding the nature of a government and the state applying for membership. Because all decisions are made by the Commonwealth membership are by consensus, and historically virtually all re-applying members that have become republics (No Gavin, South Africa didn't reapply) have maintained membership, the claim is incorrect. -- Lholden 07:31, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
"Let me make it absolutely clear that, whatever the outcome of the referendum, there is no question of Australia's membership of the Commonwealth being in doubt."
Then, in the lead up to the 2006 Commonwealth Games, the ARM approached the current Secretary-General of the Commonwealth, Don McKinnon (a New Zealander, I might add - who was a minister in Jim Bolger's government) to confirm the precise situation of republics within the Commonwealth. His letter of 9 November 2005 states in part:
"Let me confirm that a country’s position as a member of the Commonwealth is unaffected by a constitutional change in its status to become a republic… ever since the London Agreement of 1949, republican forms of government have been entirely compatible with Commonwealth membership… any constitutional change in Australia to become a republic would not affect its membership in the Commonwealth."
These two statements confirm that a Commonwealth member doesn't simply loose its membership by becoming a republic; therefore the principle stands.
The claim was that on becoming a republic, a state automatically looses its membership of the Commonwealth and because they have to "reapply" for it. There is no legal reason why membership lapses when a state becomes a republic, as the mechanism for membership applications - in the words of the Commonwealth - is for "continued membership with its renewed status". There is not some gap between becoming a republic and reapplying for membership and being granted continued membership, the state remains a member unless - in the case of Fiji and South Africa - their application lapses. This indicates that membership is not abrogated by becoming a republic, but by the lapse of the membership reapplication. The fact that the application is a formality cofirms this. I said before that "A lapsing of membership and a requirement to simply reapply for it are not one in the same thing"; on the facts of the Fijian exit from the Commonwealth, or the South African membership of the Commonwealth this is certainly the case.
Aside from the article actually stating the aims and principles of the orgainisation; the claim that somehow this principle is a disingenuous "service to republicanism" is incorrect. The principle only came about because of disingenuous arguments by monarchists about Commonwealth membership in the first place. Any literal reading of the principle favours the view that New Zealand would not be "required" to leave the Commonwealth on becoming a republic, and as I have stated above, membership certainly doesn't lapse when a state becomes a republic. -- Lholden 00:49, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Gavin, your statement that the Secretary-General's comments only relate to Australia is plain silly; obviously you conceed they support my view, else there would be no need to dispute their application to New Zealand. I think it would be very strange for the Secretary-General to make a statement that did not have application to all Commonwealth Realms regarding this issue. I also add that your statement that it was Chief Anyaoku not Don McKinnon who made the 3 November 1999 statement (The difference in dates is probably due to time differences between Aussie and the UK) shows that you're not actually reading what I've written. Don McKinnon made a statement in the lead up to the 2006 Commonwealth Games when the monarchists once again used the same arguments you're using here to make a point on Commonwealth membership.
Firstly you say the the principle that "Creating a republic does not require any change to... Commonwealth membership" is incorrect by stating that: "When a country becomes a republic membership ends. Period."; on the basis that "Having to reapply infers that membership has been revoked". Secondly you also say that the principle is incorrect because the possibility of membership ceasing by rejection of an application. There is a logical flaw here: If membership "ceases" when an application for it is rejected at CHOGM; it logically could not have ceased at the time when the state in question became a republic. I'm sure you'll say that what you really meant was that membership is not "restored"; but again I say look at the wording of the Commonwealth Secretariat - they actually infer the membership continues from the time a republic is declared.
Having to re-apply for membership doesn't mean your membership has ceased. Changes in constitutional circumstances, as both Secretary-Generals state, do not in and of themselves cause the cessation of membership. New Zealand electoral law works in the same way; you have to re-register to vote if you change electorates (or ridings if you will), but that requirement only has to do with telling the Electoral Commission that you've changed electorates. You don't loose your voter registration when you move, simply because you have to re-register doesn't mean that your registration has lapsed. The same applies to Commonwealth membership.
In answer to your three points:
To say that New Zealand might be rejected because of discrimination against Maori is laughable. It is not disingenious to state that will will not be required to change our membership of the Commonwealth should we become a republic, not is it disingenious to exclude speculative claims that somehow New Zealand might just be excluded for an invented reason from Commonwealth membership in the future should it become a republic. What is disingenious is arguing that somehow membership of the Commonwealth ceases the minute a state becomes a republic because the state has to re-apply for membership. Clearly you're using this argument as a way of "showing" that Commonwealth membership will be lost should New Zealand become a republic and will have to be regained. That is not correct, and it is not disingenious to not state something that is not a fact. -- Lholden 02:41, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
jee, the vandel [3] must of been on to something. A member of the National Council had reverted in under a minute :P Brian | (Talk) 04:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 8 external links on New Zealand Republic. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:18, 17 February 2018 (UTC)