![]() | New York State Route 169 was nominated as a Engineering and technology good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (May 2, 2020). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
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My map shows that NY-169 begins at the Thruway and crosses NY-5S in the northwest corner of Danube, New York, not Little Falls. Stepp-Wulf 01:21, 16 March 2007 (UTC).
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Reidgreg ( talk · contribs) 20:56, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Review to be forthcoming. – Reidgreg ( talk) 20:56, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
The prose looks decent enough.
Four images from Flickr released under CC licence.
The big issue I ran up against is the question: Is Google Maps is a reliable source?
Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources notes of Google Maps: Google Maps and Google Street View may be useful for some purposes, including finding and verifying geographic coordinates and other basic information like street names. However [...] where other reliable sources are available they should be treated preferentially to Google Maps and Google Street View. It can also be difficult or impossible to determine the veracity of past citations, since Google Maps data is not publicly archived, and may be removed or replaced as soon as it is not current.
Discussions I read at the Reliable sources noticeboard vary from Google Maps being a "reasonable source" (not reliable) for non-controversial verification of simple distances, to being "unreliable" as they have not disclosed their editorial practices for fact-checking. Another editor noted that Google Maps is an aggregator, a tertiary source like Wikipedia; and like Wikipedia, this means that they're good for a general overview but that they aren't reliable themselves. What we want are the sources that Google Maps is getting its data from.
Over half of the article's prose is cited to Google Maps (all but one sentence of the Route description section), and much of that fails verification from Google Maps as noted above. Some of the other citations are also to maps and fail verification (easy interpretation by a non-specialist).
I don't see this passing without substantial work, and am failing the review. I hope that my review notes give you some direction on how to proceed. If you disagree with my assessment, I can call for a second opinion. – Reidgreg ( talk) 01:21, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Okay, one other editor felt that the quick fail was premature, so I'm putting the review "on hold" until May 1 to allow for editing to meet the GA criteria. I will stress that Google Maps may be used for basic distances and coordinates (limited precision) and street names, but is inadequate on its own for other information. Additional sources will be needed. – Reidgreg ( talk) 21:09, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
GOOGLE MAPS CORE SERVICES ARE PROVIDED FOR PLANNING PURPOSES ONLY. INFORMATION FROM THE GOOGLE MAPS CORE SERVICES MAY DIFFER FROM ACTUAL CONDITIONS, AND MAY NOT BE SUITABLE FOR THE CUSTOMER APPLICATION. CUSTOMER MUST EXERCISE INDEPENDENT JUDGMENT WHEN USING THE SERVICES. If Google Maps doesn't claim to be reliable, we shouldn't assume that they are. The essay Wikipedia:Using maps and similar sources in Wikipedia articles recommends that maps from reliable sources should only be treated as reliable for their intended purpose (in this case, general planning of travel). I feel that we should also be very careful to only cite information which is explicitly stated in the map, without interpretation or synthesis. I feel that interpretation of aerial photographs is original research because it requires specialized skill – most people simply don't have enough experience perceiving the world from an aerial perspective to make accurate assessments of what they are looking at. Some additional discussion was held at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Good articles/GAN Backlog Drives/April–May 2020 § Second opinion request regarding Google Maps. Most of those editors agreed that additional sources should supplement Google Maps.
![]() | New York State Route 169 was nominated as a Engineering and technology good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (May 2, 2020). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
My map shows that NY-169 begins at the Thruway and crosses NY-5S in the northwest corner of Danube, New York, not Little Falls. Stepp-Wulf 01:21, 16 March 2007 (UTC).
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Reidgreg ( talk · contribs) 20:56, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Review to be forthcoming. – Reidgreg ( talk) 20:56, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
The prose looks decent enough.
Four images from Flickr released under CC licence.
The big issue I ran up against is the question: Is Google Maps is a reliable source?
Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources notes of Google Maps: Google Maps and Google Street View may be useful for some purposes, including finding and verifying geographic coordinates and other basic information like street names. However [...] where other reliable sources are available they should be treated preferentially to Google Maps and Google Street View. It can also be difficult or impossible to determine the veracity of past citations, since Google Maps data is not publicly archived, and may be removed or replaced as soon as it is not current.
Discussions I read at the Reliable sources noticeboard vary from Google Maps being a "reasonable source" (not reliable) for non-controversial verification of simple distances, to being "unreliable" as they have not disclosed their editorial practices for fact-checking. Another editor noted that Google Maps is an aggregator, a tertiary source like Wikipedia; and like Wikipedia, this means that they're good for a general overview but that they aren't reliable themselves. What we want are the sources that Google Maps is getting its data from.
Over half of the article's prose is cited to Google Maps (all but one sentence of the Route description section), and much of that fails verification from Google Maps as noted above. Some of the other citations are also to maps and fail verification (easy interpretation by a non-specialist).
I don't see this passing without substantial work, and am failing the review. I hope that my review notes give you some direction on how to proceed. If you disagree with my assessment, I can call for a second opinion. – Reidgreg ( talk) 01:21, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Okay, one other editor felt that the quick fail was premature, so I'm putting the review "on hold" until May 1 to allow for editing to meet the GA criteria. I will stress that Google Maps may be used for basic distances and coordinates (limited precision) and street names, but is inadequate on its own for other information. Additional sources will be needed. – Reidgreg ( talk) 21:09, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
GOOGLE MAPS CORE SERVICES ARE PROVIDED FOR PLANNING PURPOSES ONLY. INFORMATION FROM THE GOOGLE MAPS CORE SERVICES MAY DIFFER FROM ACTUAL CONDITIONS, AND MAY NOT BE SUITABLE FOR THE CUSTOMER APPLICATION. CUSTOMER MUST EXERCISE INDEPENDENT JUDGMENT WHEN USING THE SERVICES. If Google Maps doesn't claim to be reliable, we shouldn't assume that they are. The essay Wikipedia:Using maps and similar sources in Wikipedia articles recommends that maps from reliable sources should only be treated as reliable for their intended purpose (in this case, general planning of travel). I feel that we should also be very careful to only cite information which is explicitly stated in the map, without interpretation or synthesis. I feel that interpretation of aerial photographs is original research because it requires specialized skill – most people simply don't have enough experience perceiving the world from an aerial perspective to make accurate assessments of what they are looking at. Some additional discussion was held at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Good articles/GAN Backlog Drives/April–May 2020 § Second opinion request regarding Google Maps. Most of those editors agreed that additional sources should supplement Google Maps.