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the New Swabia's role in alternative historical theories section contradicts what the hitlers suicide page on wikipedia says. namely that the soviets found the bodies and kept them for 30 years after their deaths before destroying them. so how could the soviets have intellegence reports putting them in argentina? this section needs to be changed.
This article should either be at New Swabia or Neuschwabenland, probably Neuschwabenland, as that's what's called on the maps I've seen. As it is, it is a mix of German and English.
I'd also disagree that the name is seldom used to describe the region. Most detailed maps of antarctica (eg National Geographic, my atlas etc.) that I've seen include the term.
I must ad that the claims as quoted in the german book Neu Schwabenland where not abondand by the german Federal Republic it where renewed in 1955 by an official state
declaration but since than now offical statement was given
Johann
At some point this article had been seeded with a PoV framework to support unfounded popular rumours that AH may have fled here after the war. I have NPoV'd that content and generally cleaned up the prose and syntax. Wyss 08:52, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
I took out credible because it is inherantly POV. What I think we can agree on is that there is no expert witness claiming this "Hitler in a UFO w spaceman friends" idea is literally true. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 20:05, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
Actually there is plenty of evidence for it being mythologically true, look into Miguel Serrano and Nazi mysticism. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 23:15, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
Semantics. I mean yeah, the myths exist but there's zero evidence of reality. Anyway putting it all in a Nazi mythology section is totally ok with me (!), truth be told I like it and find it entertaining presented in that context. Thanks for persisting with creative ideas, it makes a difference :) Wyss 23:59, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
Certainly, my interpretaion of NPOV is that I neither want to confuse the reader into thinking such tales are widely respected, nor insult the believers (if they exist ;) by dismissing them out of hand. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 20:28, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
I wish there was some kind of reference for the Hitler myth - an in-text cite or something. As it is, it seems dubious whether there are any people who believe this. Evan Donovan 01:11, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
I have just added a new article for the Nazi Moon base, I ask for assistance to anyone who is familiar with the subject of conspiracy theories and Nazi mysticism to aid me in expanding and making this article a worthy component. Thanks. Piecraft 18:16, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
"An esoteric Hitlerist legend recounts that Adolf Hitler did not commit suicide in 1945, but fled to Argentina, then to an SS base under the ice in New Swabia during the early 1950s where he either disappeared into the hollow earth or resumed his career as a painter - until the 1960s when he was taken by aliens to Aldebaran, where he is planning a campaign to conquer the planet. According to this account, Neu Schwabenland becomes the underground control center for a Nazi moon base. "
Seriously????? What was the deciding factor in whether he chose to resume his career as a painter or as an all-powering conquering aryan messiah of sorts? I guess they both have their merits...
Quadell requested a map on 22 January 2006, so now there's a map, and I have removed the map request tag. Thomas Blomberg 04:22, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Image:Schwabenland.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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In the article on New Swabia it states that some think through a legal loophole the Third Reich still exists in New Swabia. Please provide a reference. Almost certainly the Final Settlement of 1990 excluded German claims to this region, if they ever existed after 25 May 1945.
131.123.169.63 ( talk) 14:14, 22 April 2008 (UTC) Francis Graham
I have removed the following text from the "Legal standing" section: "leading to the Berlin Declaration made by the Allied Control Council, which legally dissolved Germany's civilian government and was further acknowledged in 1990 when a re-unified German government signed the Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany." This implies that a claim to "New Swabia" was still on the agenda when Germany surrendered in 1945, or was explicitly rejected by the Allies, which is nonsense. It played no role in 1989/90, either. By the way, the "Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany" was not signed by a "re-unified German government" (which didn't exist then), but by the governments of West and East Germany. -- Thorsten1 ( talk) 14:34, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
On a similar note, the remaining text in the "legal standing" section ("No country ever recognized Germany's claim, which lapsed under the terms of the unconditional surrender to the Allied Powers signed on 8 May 1945."), and a part of the lead ("which was claimed by Nazi Germany between 19 January 1939 and 8 May 1945"), strike me as problematic, too. Has there ever been a formal claim to the territory that other countries could have recognized or refused to recognize, and which was consistently upheld until 1945? I assume that for most of the war, the German government had other problems. A brief Google search did not yield any evidence that the area was formally claimed in terms of international law. The closest I could get was this e-book whose description says that claims "were explored" in a scholarly journal on international law. -- Thorsten1 ( talk) 18:31, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
The whole "legal standing" section is absolutely wrong. Norway claimed on January 14, 1939, Queen Maud Land, this was 5 days before the German expedition even reached the area. The German government rejected these claims with a diplomatic note on January 23, 1939, but never officially claimed Neuschwabenland. Heinz Schon, the author of a book about Neuschwabenland [Heinz Schön: Mythos Neu-Schwabenland. Für Hitler am Südpol. Bonus, Selent 2004, p. 106, ISBN 3-935962-05-3] contacted the Foreign Office to confirm that there were no official cliams. In 1952 the governmental bulletin (Bundesanzeiger No. 149, August 5th 1952) published a list of 87 names of geographical objects, given by the Ritscher expedition, but this was just a confirmation that these names are valid and should be used on maps. Maybe a native English speaker can edit this section accordingly. -- Diorit ( talk) 06:16, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Regards -- Diorit ( talk) 09:44, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
The different maps of Neuschwabenland came with the first volume. In the early 1980s, Ritscher's widow handed over about 600 aerial photographs which survived the second WW, that allowed a kartographer to reconstruct the flight polygons and identify most of the objects, named by the expedition Karsten Brunk (1986). "Kartographische Arbeiten und deutsche Namengebung in Neuschwabenland, Antarktis" (PDF). Deutsche Geodätische Kommission, Reihe E: Geschichte und Entwicklung der Geodäsie. 24/I: 1–24.. Unfortunately, most non-geoscience publications about Neuschwabenland are written in German. The only English-written paper dealing with the expedition I know is Summerhayes & Beeching (2007), Hitler’s Antarctic base: the myth and the reality. Polar Record 43:1–21 Cambridge University Press. They are dealing with the myths circulating in the internet and the real background. -- Diorit ( talk) 09:49, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Meanwhile, since 1997 New Swabia can be visited by normal tourists. I gave sources for that:
1.)John Krakauer: On the edge of Antarctica, Queen Maud Land. In: National Geographic. 193, Number 2, pages 46-69).
2.) [1]
So, please don´t delete that again, or say why you don´t think it should stand in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.61.234.244 ( talk) 17:42, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the paragraph below. It is unreferenced and, since the claim is easily disproved, not notable.-- Duncan ( talk) 20:26, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
The mere fact that a claim is easily disproved doesn't make it non-notable. There is a whole bunch of articles on the anti-vaccination movement.The Neuschwabenland conspiracy theories are quite well known and have even been the topic of satirical novels lampooning the whole idea. ( http://www.amazon.de/Neues-aus-Neuschwabenland-Tageb%C3%BCchern-Adjutanten/dp/3939459771/ref=tmm_other_meta_binding_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1444258600&sr=1-1) -- 95.90.54.245 ( talk) 23:27, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
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Rer Isi Rer ( talk) 07:51, 23 October 2012 (UTC) Hello all, I should like to set out the reasons why I have amended this article to include this reference to whale fat as a strategic material in the manufacture of explosives.My reasons are that I was very pained and surprised when I learned that whale fat converted into high-explosive at more or less a one-to-one ratio! I read too in the same article that the German government had been stockpiling whale oil for some years previous to the second world war. In this article an high up German politician had been quoted as remarking that (to paraphrase) "Had the German Empire been in the possesion of the large strategic reserve which we now possess ,previous to the Great War , the victory in that war would have been more or less assured."
Hey folks, you seem to have discussed this already, so i ask first before adding some text. The nazi new Swabia conspiracy is pretty popular (at least here in Germany) and there are some citable sources (one even peer reviewed) that denounce these phantasies as such. Can I add a short paragraph about theory vs. reality based on these sources here:
FaktenSucher ( talk) 13:15, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
|quote =
, |language =
and |trans-quote =
.
BucketOfSquirrels (
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18:52, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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The terminology "unrecognized" claim is used in the article. The meaning is very unclear. Generally, nearly all of the claims made in Antarctica at that time (the 1930s) were not subject to any formal recognition. The area in which New Swabia was located was within Norway's Queen Maud Land which was (at the time) equally unrecognized. It would be possible to call the claim disputed, but "unrecognized" is not something that appears in any other article on these claimed areas in Antarctica covering this period of time. 12.12.144.130 ( talk) 20:31, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Southern Reich. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. -- Tavix ( talk) 02:55, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
the article showed a
Flag of New Swabia with is identical to the Flag of the
Reichskolonialbund (see also
this unused flag image). There is no evidence this flag ever appeared in context of a New Swabia claim (which is anyway to be doubted ever officially made) or the German Arctic Expedition of 1938/1939. See also
the crwflags page.
Therefore I will remove this flag from article. If a flag is needed to be shown, either the normal
1935 Nazi Flag of Germany,
no flag or
Question mark image make sense here. I will simply leave the flag attibute empty, so no flag wil be shown at all – just the expedition logo. --
Burts (
talk)
15:16, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 19:39, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
New Swabia article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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the New Swabia's role in alternative historical theories section contradicts what the hitlers suicide page on wikipedia says. namely that the soviets found the bodies and kept them for 30 years after their deaths before destroying them. so how could the soviets have intellegence reports putting them in argentina? this section needs to be changed.
This article should either be at New Swabia or Neuschwabenland, probably Neuschwabenland, as that's what's called on the maps I've seen. As it is, it is a mix of German and English.
I'd also disagree that the name is seldom used to describe the region. Most detailed maps of antarctica (eg National Geographic, my atlas etc.) that I've seen include the term.
I must ad that the claims as quoted in the german book Neu Schwabenland where not abondand by the german Federal Republic it where renewed in 1955 by an official state
declaration but since than now offical statement was given
Johann
At some point this article had been seeded with a PoV framework to support unfounded popular rumours that AH may have fled here after the war. I have NPoV'd that content and generally cleaned up the prose and syntax. Wyss 08:52, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
I took out credible because it is inherantly POV. What I think we can agree on is that there is no expert witness claiming this "Hitler in a UFO w spaceman friends" idea is literally true. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 20:05, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
Actually there is plenty of evidence for it being mythologically true, look into Miguel Serrano and Nazi mysticism. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 23:15, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
Semantics. I mean yeah, the myths exist but there's zero evidence of reality. Anyway putting it all in a Nazi mythology section is totally ok with me (!), truth be told I like it and find it entertaining presented in that context. Thanks for persisting with creative ideas, it makes a difference :) Wyss 23:59, 3 August 2005 (UTC)
Certainly, my interpretaion of NPOV is that I neither want to confuse the reader into thinking such tales are widely respected, nor insult the believers (if they exist ;) by dismissing them out of hand. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 20:28, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
I wish there was some kind of reference for the Hitler myth - an in-text cite or something. As it is, it seems dubious whether there are any people who believe this. Evan Donovan 01:11, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
I have just added a new article for the Nazi Moon base, I ask for assistance to anyone who is familiar with the subject of conspiracy theories and Nazi mysticism to aid me in expanding and making this article a worthy component. Thanks. Piecraft 18:16, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
"An esoteric Hitlerist legend recounts that Adolf Hitler did not commit suicide in 1945, but fled to Argentina, then to an SS base under the ice in New Swabia during the early 1950s where he either disappeared into the hollow earth or resumed his career as a painter - until the 1960s when he was taken by aliens to Aldebaran, where he is planning a campaign to conquer the planet. According to this account, Neu Schwabenland becomes the underground control center for a Nazi moon base. "
Seriously????? What was the deciding factor in whether he chose to resume his career as a painter or as an all-powering conquering aryan messiah of sorts? I guess they both have their merits...
Quadell requested a map on 22 January 2006, so now there's a map, and I have removed the map request tag. Thomas Blomberg 04:22, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
Image:Schwabenland.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 21:44, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
In the article on New Swabia it states that some think through a legal loophole the Third Reich still exists in New Swabia. Please provide a reference. Almost certainly the Final Settlement of 1990 excluded German claims to this region, if they ever existed after 25 May 1945.
131.123.169.63 ( talk) 14:14, 22 April 2008 (UTC) Francis Graham
I have removed the following text from the "Legal standing" section: "leading to the Berlin Declaration made by the Allied Control Council, which legally dissolved Germany's civilian government and was further acknowledged in 1990 when a re-unified German government signed the Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany." This implies that a claim to "New Swabia" was still on the agenda when Germany surrendered in 1945, or was explicitly rejected by the Allies, which is nonsense. It played no role in 1989/90, either. By the way, the "Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany" was not signed by a "re-unified German government" (which didn't exist then), but by the governments of West and East Germany. -- Thorsten1 ( talk) 14:34, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
On a similar note, the remaining text in the "legal standing" section ("No country ever recognized Germany's claim, which lapsed under the terms of the unconditional surrender to the Allied Powers signed on 8 May 1945."), and a part of the lead ("which was claimed by Nazi Germany between 19 January 1939 and 8 May 1945"), strike me as problematic, too. Has there ever been a formal claim to the territory that other countries could have recognized or refused to recognize, and which was consistently upheld until 1945? I assume that for most of the war, the German government had other problems. A brief Google search did not yield any evidence that the area was formally claimed in terms of international law. The closest I could get was this e-book whose description says that claims "were explored" in a scholarly journal on international law. -- Thorsten1 ( talk) 18:31, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
The whole "legal standing" section is absolutely wrong. Norway claimed on January 14, 1939, Queen Maud Land, this was 5 days before the German expedition even reached the area. The German government rejected these claims with a diplomatic note on January 23, 1939, but never officially claimed Neuschwabenland. Heinz Schon, the author of a book about Neuschwabenland [Heinz Schön: Mythos Neu-Schwabenland. Für Hitler am Südpol. Bonus, Selent 2004, p. 106, ISBN 3-935962-05-3] contacted the Foreign Office to confirm that there were no official cliams. In 1952 the governmental bulletin (Bundesanzeiger No. 149, August 5th 1952) published a list of 87 names of geographical objects, given by the Ritscher expedition, but this was just a confirmation that these names are valid and should be used on maps. Maybe a native English speaker can edit this section accordingly. -- Diorit ( talk) 06:16, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Regards -- Diorit ( talk) 09:44, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
The different maps of Neuschwabenland came with the first volume. In the early 1980s, Ritscher's widow handed over about 600 aerial photographs which survived the second WW, that allowed a kartographer to reconstruct the flight polygons and identify most of the objects, named by the expedition Karsten Brunk (1986). "Kartographische Arbeiten und deutsche Namengebung in Neuschwabenland, Antarktis" (PDF). Deutsche Geodätische Kommission, Reihe E: Geschichte und Entwicklung der Geodäsie. 24/I: 1–24.. Unfortunately, most non-geoscience publications about Neuschwabenland are written in German. The only English-written paper dealing with the expedition I know is Summerhayes & Beeching (2007), Hitler’s Antarctic base: the myth and the reality. Polar Record 43:1–21 Cambridge University Press. They are dealing with the myths circulating in the internet and the real background. -- Diorit ( talk) 09:49, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Meanwhile, since 1997 New Swabia can be visited by normal tourists. I gave sources for that:
1.)John Krakauer: On the edge of Antarctica, Queen Maud Land. In: National Geographic. 193, Number 2, pages 46-69).
2.) [1]
So, please don´t delete that again, or say why you don´t think it should stand in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.61.234.244 ( talk) 17:42, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the paragraph below. It is unreferenced and, since the claim is easily disproved, not notable.-- Duncan ( talk) 20:26, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
The mere fact that a claim is easily disproved doesn't make it non-notable. There is a whole bunch of articles on the anti-vaccination movement.The Neuschwabenland conspiracy theories are quite well known and have even been the topic of satirical novels lampooning the whole idea. ( http://www.amazon.de/Neues-aus-Neuschwabenland-Tageb%C3%BCchern-Adjutanten/dp/3939459771/ref=tmm_other_meta_binding_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1444258600&sr=1-1) -- 95.90.54.245 ( talk) 23:27, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
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File:Flag of New Swabia.svg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests August 2011
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 19:23, 17 August 2011 (UTC) |
Rer Isi Rer ( talk) 07:51, 23 October 2012 (UTC) Hello all, I should like to set out the reasons why I have amended this article to include this reference to whale fat as a strategic material in the manufacture of explosives.My reasons are that I was very pained and surprised when I learned that whale fat converted into high-explosive at more or less a one-to-one ratio! I read too in the same article that the German government had been stockpiling whale oil for some years previous to the second world war. In this article an high up German politician had been quoted as remarking that (to paraphrase) "Had the German Empire been in the possesion of the large strategic reserve which we now possess ,previous to the Great War , the victory in that war would have been more or less assured."
Hey folks, you seem to have discussed this already, so i ask first before adding some text. The nazi new Swabia conspiracy is pretty popular (at least here in Germany) and there are some citable sources (one even peer reviewed) that denounce these phantasies as such. Can I add a short paragraph about theory vs. reality based on these sources here:
FaktenSucher ( talk) 13:15, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
|quote =
, |language =
and |trans-quote =
.
BucketOfSquirrels (
talk)
18:52, 4 March 2023 (UTC)Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on New Swabia. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:36, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
The terminology "unrecognized" claim is used in the article. The meaning is very unclear. Generally, nearly all of the claims made in Antarctica at that time (the 1930s) were not subject to any formal recognition. The area in which New Swabia was located was within Norway's Queen Maud Land which was (at the time) equally unrecognized. It would be possible to call the claim disputed, but "unrecognized" is not something that appears in any other article on these claimed areas in Antarctica covering this period of time. 12.12.144.130 ( talk) 20:31, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Southern Reich. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. -- Tavix ( talk) 02:55, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
the article showed a
Flag of New Swabia with is identical to the Flag of the
Reichskolonialbund (see also
this unused flag image). There is no evidence this flag ever appeared in context of a New Swabia claim (which is anyway to be doubted ever officially made) or the German Arctic Expedition of 1938/1939. See also
the crwflags page.
Therefore I will remove this flag from article. If a flag is needed to be shown, either the normal
1935 Nazi Flag of Germany,
no flag or
Question mark image make sense here. I will simply leave the flag attibute empty, so no flag wil be shown at all – just the expedition logo. --
Burts (
talk)
15:16, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 19:39, 12 April 2023 (UTC)