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A fact from Nellie Two Bears Gates appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 15 December 2019 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that Nellie Two Bear Gates made beaded artwork that depicted Yanktonai
Dakota history and culture?
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by
Yoninah (
talk) 21:39, 10 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Article is new enough, long enough, and adequately sourced. I am assuming good faith for the offline sources. No close paraphrasing was found, and a QPQ was provided. ALT1 isn't really interesting to a broad audience, although I'm open to a variant of ALT1 that drops the reservation mention and sticks to the mention of her Sioux name. I like ALT0 better, but the fact doesn't seem to be explicitly mentioned in the article, and from what I can tell only one of the three that explicitly uses the word "suitcase" (the other two works use the word "valise", which seems to be a relatively obscure term and I admit have never heard of prior to this nomination).
Narutolovehinata5tccsdnew 00:21, 11 November 2019 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the quick review,
Narutolovehinata5. I'd say the "obscurity" of the term is subjective.
Valise redirects to
suitcase. Does that help? We could say "...
suitcase or
valise..."
Also, I'm a bit unsure by your reasoning about ALT1 being uninteresting to broad audiences... is that a requirement, and if so, how is it measured? I feel like what makes hooks interesting is that they mention something from the article that you have to click to learn more. I would further counter that for this hook, since
Standing Rock has garnered international attention in the past couple of years, that the hook is quite interesting to a broad audience simply for Gates being from there.
I meant to say that, as layperson who is not very familiar with Native American history or affairs, it's not a hook that would catch my attention, and the same would be likely for others with similar backgrounds. Personally I actually find the "Gathering of Clouds Woman" more interesting since at least it sounds like an unusual name, at least to the layman. As for the first hook, another issue is that the hook isn't exactly explicitly mentioned in the article (i.e. the hook only says that she has three works with these names, but nothing in the article that ties the names of the three together), and so the hook could arguably be considered synthesis, which is a shame since I personally think it's a good hook.
Narutolovehinata5tccsdnew 00:46, 11 November 2019 (UTC)reply
It sounds good, but personally I still prefer ALT0 (if the sourcing issue could be addressed) or the revision to ALT1 that I suggested. Though it might be a good idea to ask for a second opinion from another editor on what hook could be used.
Narutolovehinata5tccsdnew 23:23, 11 November 2019 (UTC)reply
@
Narutolovehinata5: Do you want to reach out to someone? Or do you think it is good to go? =
paul2520 (
talk) 01:36, 12 November 2019 (UTC)reply
I personally think the article itself is good to go, just not sure on the choice of hooks. Second opinions would be greatly appreciated in this case.
Narutolovehinata5tccsdnew 02:03, 12 November 2019 (UTC)reply
I think it's really interesting that she made artworks around suitcases and bags, and I think it would be possible to say something general in the article about that, that could be the basis of a hook. I don't think the name of the work is so important - the description of one of the valises starts "Nellie Gates made this case for her daughter Josephine ..."
[1], and another seems to be what I'd call a traditional
Doctor’s bag (I can only see that one on Pinterest), another more like a handbag. I'll have a look at the article and sources again.
RebeccaGreen (
talk) 15:27, 13 November 2019 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the comments,
RebeccaGreen! I added a line to the lead that summarizes the commentary in the Artwork and exhibitions section. How is this for a new hook? cc:
Narutolovehinata5.
ALT3 ... that
Dakota artist Nellie Two Bear Gates is best-known for several beaded suitcases or valises that she gave as gifts during her life?
ALT3 and ALT4 are great hooks! Good job, I'll give this a final look later.
Narutolovehinata5tccsdnew 23:29, 13 November 2019 (UTC)reply
I also have another suggestion; considering the relative lack of representation that Native Americans get on DYK, would it be possible that whatever hook goes up mentions the Sioux or Dakota, even the ones that do not currently do so such as ALT3?
Narutolovehinata5tccsdnew 23:30, 13 November 2019 (UTC)reply
Great, glad it was helpful! I have changed the link from a disambiguation page to
Dakota people - hope that's the right article.
RebeccaGreen (
talk) 08:01, 14 November 2019 (UTC)reply
Yes, I believe so. I expect that
Narutolovehinata5 is busy, so I will approve ALT3 and ALT4, AGF for the offline sources (enough are online to verify the hooks). Striking the previous hooks for the reasons mentioned above.
RebeccaGreen (
talk) 03:49, 16 November 2019 (UTC)reply
This article was reviewed by member(s) of WikiProject Articles for creation. The project works to allow users to contribute quality articles and media files to the encyclopedia and track their progress as they are developed. To participate, please visit the
project page for more information.Articles for creationWikipedia:WikiProject Articles for creationTemplate:WikiProject Articles for creationAfC articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Native Americans,
Indigenous peoples in Canada, and related
indigenous peoples of North America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Indigenous peoples of North AmericaWikipedia:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North AmericaTemplate:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North AmericaIndigenous peoples of North America articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject South Dakota, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
U.S. state of South Dakota on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.South DakotaWikipedia:WikiProject South DakotaTemplate:WikiProject South DakotaSouth Dakota articles
A fact from Nellie Two Bears Gates appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 15 December 2019 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Did you know... that Nellie Two Bear Gates made beaded artwork that depicted Yanktonai
Dakota history and culture?
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by
Yoninah (
talk) 21:39, 10 December 2019 (UTC)reply
Article is new enough, long enough, and adequately sourced. I am assuming good faith for the offline sources. No close paraphrasing was found, and a QPQ was provided. ALT1 isn't really interesting to a broad audience, although I'm open to a variant of ALT1 that drops the reservation mention and sticks to the mention of her Sioux name. I like ALT0 better, but the fact doesn't seem to be explicitly mentioned in the article, and from what I can tell only one of the three that explicitly uses the word "suitcase" (the other two works use the word "valise", which seems to be a relatively obscure term and I admit have never heard of prior to this nomination).
Narutolovehinata5tccsdnew 00:21, 11 November 2019 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the quick review,
Narutolovehinata5. I'd say the "obscurity" of the term is subjective.
Valise redirects to
suitcase. Does that help? We could say "...
suitcase or
valise..."
Also, I'm a bit unsure by your reasoning about ALT1 being uninteresting to broad audiences... is that a requirement, and if so, how is it measured? I feel like what makes hooks interesting is that they mention something from the article that you have to click to learn more. I would further counter that for this hook, since
Standing Rock has garnered international attention in the past couple of years, that the hook is quite interesting to a broad audience simply for Gates being from there.
I meant to say that, as layperson who is not very familiar with Native American history or affairs, it's not a hook that would catch my attention, and the same would be likely for others with similar backgrounds. Personally I actually find the "Gathering of Clouds Woman" more interesting since at least it sounds like an unusual name, at least to the layman. As for the first hook, another issue is that the hook isn't exactly explicitly mentioned in the article (i.e. the hook only says that she has three works with these names, but nothing in the article that ties the names of the three together), and so the hook could arguably be considered synthesis, which is a shame since I personally think it's a good hook.
Narutolovehinata5tccsdnew 00:46, 11 November 2019 (UTC)reply
It sounds good, but personally I still prefer ALT0 (if the sourcing issue could be addressed) or the revision to ALT1 that I suggested. Though it might be a good idea to ask for a second opinion from another editor on what hook could be used.
Narutolovehinata5tccsdnew 23:23, 11 November 2019 (UTC)reply
@
Narutolovehinata5: Do you want to reach out to someone? Or do you think it is good to go? =
paul2520 (
talk) 01:36, 12 November 2019 (UTC)reply
I personally think the article itself is good to go, just not sure on the choice of hooks. Second opinions would be greatly appreciated in this case.
Narutolovehinata5tccsdnew 02:03, 12 November 2019 (UTC)reply
I think it's really interesting that she made artworks around suitcases and bags, and I think it would be possible to say something general in the article about that, that could be the basis of a hook. I don't think the name of the work is so important - the description of one of the valises starts "Nellie Gates made this case for her daughter Josephine ..."
[1], and another seems to be what I'd call a traditional
Doctor’s bag (I can only see that one on Pinterest), another more like a handbag. I'll have a look at the article and sources again.
RebeccaGreen (
talk) 15:27, 13 November 2019 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the comments,
RebeccaGreen! I added a line to the lead that summarizes the commentary in the Artwork and exhibitions section. How is this for a new hook? cc:
Narutolovehinata5.
ALT3 ... that
Dakota artist Nellie Two Bear Gates is best-known for several beaded suitcases or valises that she gave as gifts during her life?
ALT3 and ALT4 are great hooks! Good job, I'll give this a final look later.
Narutolovehinata5tccsdnew 23:29, 13 November 2019 (UTC)reply
I also have another suggestion; considering the relative lack of representation that Native Americans get on DYK, would it be possible that whatever hook goes up mentions the Sioux or Dakota, even the ones that do not currently do so such as ALT3?
Narutolovehinata5tccsdnew 23:30, 13 November 2019 (UTC)reply
Great, glad it was helpful! I have changed the link from a disambiguation page to
Dakota people - hope that's the right article.
RebeccaGreen (
talk) 08:01, 14 November 2019 (UTC)reply
Yes, I believe so. I expect that
Narutolovehinata5 is busy, so I will approve ALT3 and ALT4, AGF for the offline sources (enough are online to verify the hooks). Striking the previous hooks for the reasons mentioned above.
RebeccaGreen (
talk) 03:49, 16 November 2019 (UTC)reply