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I've started adding an outline of history to the stub, but I hope members of the NGK who know more about it can expand on it. SteveH 07:15, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
The current "Nederduitse Gereformeerde Kerk" (NG Kerk) can not lay claim to being the "oldest in South Africa". If one were to be really pedantic, it should be the Roman Catholic church, because the Portuguese arrived here first, but that was so brief that it may reasonably be disregarded. However, the NG Kerk is only one of the direct "descendants" of the church that the Dutch arrived at the Cape with. They arrived with the "Nederlandse Hervormde Kerk", which was later changed to the "Nederduitsch Hervormde Kerk" by the Trekkers, "hervormd" being the germanic (Dutch) word for "reformed". It was only after the Great Trek that the church in the Cape was renamed to "Nederduitse Gereformeerde Kerk", "gereformeerd" being the romantic (French, from the Latin) word for "reformed". The people who went away on the Great Trek kept the name as "Hervormde" and this denomination is, by rights, still the oldest one in South Africa, as it existed continuously from the arrival of Van Riebeeck until the present. As the NG Kerk is also still, despite the name change, a direct "descendant" of the "Nederlandse Hervormde Kerk" of Van Riebeeck, it could, however, lay claim to "jointly being the oldest denomination/church in South Africa". Please give your thoughts and amend the article if it seems necessary. Historical correctness on Wikipedia is quite important, don't you think? 196.211.98.155 ( talk) 12:22, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
What does its name mean in English? It looks like it more or less means "Dutch Reformed Church". Is that right? john k 15:06, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
I've edited the introduction to clarify this. Bertusb ( talk) 10:42, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Actually it's "Low German Reformed Church". "duits" meaning "German" and "neder" "low" as in "the low countries". In the Netherlands, the name was changed to "Nederlandse Gereformeerde Kerk", in South Africa, however, it is maintained. Check out the Afrikaans (and Dutch) article about nederduits and change to English: http://af.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederduits
If nooone opposes it, I'll change the name to Low German. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.6.206.230 ( talk) 19:14, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
The page really ought to mention something about the church's support for the Apartheid regime in South Africa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.180.224.222 ( talk) 06:25, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, it's laughable how the current article jumps from 1910 to 2006 without so much as blinking. It might be a bit of a challenge to get this filled in though. It might be a good idea to present a section on church history in this interval, but also a section to specifically deal with the church's involvement in Apartheid which should integrate with Wikipedia entries on South African history. Hendvi ( talk) 06:44, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
I think it should also reflect the NGKs role in the official Nationalist government policy of Christian National Education, which included, amongst other things: the theology of Black subjugation; that women should play a subordinate role to men; and the teaching of creationism. I would add that the NGK was the de facto official church of the Apartheid governments, and had a considerable amount of influence in shaping social policy relative to other Christian churches and other religions. Sarahbasson61 ( talk) 11:22, 10 February 2022 (UTC) Sarahbasson61
It is my understanding that English Wikipedia's article titles should be in English. On the English website of the Nederduits Gereformeerde Kerk, the name is given as simply Dutch Reformed Church (DRC). However, as there is the older and no longer extant Dutch Reformed Church, which is this church's parent, the title would need a disambiguation. The article is already redirected from Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa. Would that be the correct way to disambiguate or would Dutch Reformed Church (South Africa) be correct? After a week without comment I will move the article to Dutch Reformed Church (South Africa) as based on the church's website it is officially known in English as the Dutch Reformed Church. However, as I am not familiar with this church I want to first seek the opinions of those more familiar. Ltwin ( talk) 03:23, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
How about just pointing it to Dutch Reformed Church (disambiguation)#South Africa and fixing that page with a South Africa section. şṗøʀĸşṗøʀĸ: τᴀʟĸ 21:13, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 ( talk) 07:23, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
– Per WP:EN, we need to use English names for these pages. NGK and NHK both translate to "Dutch Reformed Church". In English they are usually distinguished by their Afrikaans acronyms. No disambiguation is required for Reformed Churches in South Africa, though there should be a hatnote back to Reformed Church in South Africa. JFH ( talk) 18:08, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
The current text says "The revival also led to an interest in mission work which led to the establishment of the Dutch Reformed Mission Church for coloureds and the Dutch Reformed Church in Africa for blacks." which is incorrect. The interest in missions work started in 1824 already (not 1860), and the DRMC was not originally intended as a separate denomination, but instead as a missions church. Furthermore, the DRCA was only founded in 1951 (almost a century later), so that has nothing to do with the 1860 revival. -- leuce ( talk) 07:42, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
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Lotje added a picture of Riaan Cruywagen ( https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Dutch_Reformed_Church_in_South_Africa_(NGK)&diff=next&oldid=688574210) but I can't figure out why. Does anyone know? -- leuce ( talk) 23:11, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
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There is some useful information about the 1862 split here: https://kerkbode.christians.co.za/2019/06/18/wat-drie-hofsake-ons-leer/ Apparently, there was only one synod until that time, but during the liberal vs conservative controversy, the high court ruled that ministers from outside the Cape Colony were legally not allowed on the synod, and this lead to the creation of separate synods outside the Cape Colony. The author of this article believes that the reason for the establishment of a local seminary had nothing to do with a "revival" but rather to preserve conservatism (since the liberal views were mostly held by ministers who were trained in Europe). -- leuce ( talk) 08:47, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
-- Sarahbasson61 ( talk) 11:36, 10 February 2022 (UTC) The DRC was closely linked to and heavily influenced the Afrikaner Broederbond, a secret white male society that exercised great influence over the National Party and the nationalist Apartheid government, with members often placed in influential positions in both government and the private sector. The involvement of the DRC via the Afrikaner Boederbond is a further manifestation of the power of the DRC in influencing and propping up the Afrikaner Calvinist nature of the Apartheid governments.
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I've started adding an outline of history to the stub, but I hope members of the NGK who know more about it can expand on it. SteveH 07:15, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
The current "Nederduitse Gereformeerde Kerk" (NG Kerk) can not lay claim to being the "oldest in South Africa". If one were to be really pedantic, it should be the Roman Catholic church, because the Portuguese arrived here first, but that was so brief that it may reasonably be disregarded. However, the NG Kerk is only one of the direct "descendants" of the church that the Dutch arrived at the Cape with. They arrived with the "Nederlandse Hervormde Kerk", which was later changed to the "Nederduitsch Hervormde Kerk" by the Trekkers, "hervormd" being the germanic (Dutch) word for "reformed". It was only after the Great Trek that the church in the Cape was renamed to "Nederduitse Gereformeerde Kerk", "gereformeerd" being the romantic (French, from the Latin) word for "reformed". The people who went away on the Great Trek kept the name as "Hervormde" and this denomination is, by rights, still the oldest one in South Africa, as it existed continuously from the arrival of Van Riebeeck until the present. As the NG Kerk is also still, despite the name change, a direct "descendant" of the "Nederlandse Hervormde Kerk" of Van Riebeeck, it could, however, lay claim to "jointly being the oldest denomination/church in South Africa". Please give your thoughts and amend the article if it seems necessary. Historical correctness on Wikipedia is quite important, don't you think? 196.211.98.155 ( talk) 12:22, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
What does its name mean in English? It looks like it more or less means "Dutch Reformed Church". Is that right? john k 15:06, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
I've edited the introduction to clarify this. Bertusb ( talk) 10:42, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Actually it's "Low German Reformed Church". "duits" meaning "German" and "neder" "low" as in "the low countries". In the Netherlands, the name was changed to "Nederlandse Gereformeerde Kerk", in South Africa, however, it is maintained. Check out the Afrikaans (and Dutch) article about nederduits and change to English: http://af.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederduits
If nooone opposes it, I'll change the name to Low German. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.6.206.230 ( talk) 19:14, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
The page really ought to mention something about the church's support for the Apartheid regime in South Africa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.180.224.222 ( talk) 06:25, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, it's laughable how the current article jumps from 1910 to 2006 without so much as blinking. It might be a bit of a challenge to get this filled in though. It might be a good idea to present a section on church history in this interval, but also a section to specifically deal with the church's involvement in Apartheid which should integrate with Wikipedia entries on South African history. Hendvi ( talk) 06:44, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
I think it should also reflect the NGKs role in the official Nationalist government policy of Christian National Education, which included, amongst other things: the theology of Black subjugation; that women should play a subordinate role to men; and the teaching of creationism. I would add that the NGK was the de facto official church of the Apartheid governments, and had a considerable amount of influence in shaping social policy relative to other Christian churches and other religions. Sarahbasson61 ( talk) 11:22, 10 February 2022 (UTC) Sarahbasson61
It is my understanding that English Wikipedia's article titles should be in English. On the English website of the Nederduits Gereformeerde Kerk, the name is given as simply Dutch Reformed Church (DRC). However, as there is the older and no longer extant Dutch Reformed Church, which is this church's parent, the title would need a disambiguation. The article is already redirected from Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa. Would that be the correct way to disambiguate or would Dutch Reformed Church (South Africa) be correct? After a week without comment I will move the article to Dutch Reformed Church (South Africa) as based on the church's website it is officially known in English as the Dutch Reformed Church. However, as I am not familiar with this church I want to first seek the opinions of those more familiar. Ltwin ( talk) 03:23, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
How about just pointing it to Dutch Reformed Church (disambiguation)#South Africa and fixing that page with a South Africa section. şṗøʀĸşṗøʀĸ: τᴀʟĸ 21:13, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 ( talk) 07:23, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
– Per WP:EN, we need to use English names for these pages. NGK and NHK both translate to "Dutch Reformed Church". In English they are usually distinguished by their Afrikaans acronyms. No disambiguation is required for Reformed Churches in South Africa, though there should be a hatnote back to Reformed Church in South Africa. JFH ( talk) 18:08, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
The current text says "The revival also led to an interest in mission work which led to the establishment of the Dutch Reformed Mission Church for coloureds and the Dutch Reformed Church in Africa for blacks." which is incorrect. The interest in missions work started in 1824 already (not 1860), and the DRMC was not originally intended as a separate denomination, but instead as a missions church. Furthermore, the DRCA was only founded in 1951 (almost a century later), so that has nothing to do with the 1860 revival. -- leuce ( talk) 07:42, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 18:01, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
Lotje added a picture of Riaan Cruywagen ( https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Dutch_Reformed_Church_in_South_Africa_(NGK)&diff=next&oldid=688574210) but I can't figure out why. Does anyone know? -- leuce ( talk) 23:11, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
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There is some useful information about the 1862 split here: https://kerkbode.christians.co.za/2019/06/18/wat-drie-hofsake-ons-leer/ Apparently, there was only one synod until that time, but during the liberal vs conservative controversy, the high court ruled that ministers from outside the Cape Colony were legally not allowed on the synod, and this lead to the creation of separate synods outside the Cape Colony. The author of this article believes that the reason for the establishment of a local seminary had nothing to do with a "revival" but rather to preserve conservatism (since the liberal views were mostly held by ministers who were trained in Europe). -- leuce ( talk) 08:47, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
-- Sarahbasson61 ( talk) 11:36, 10 February 2022 (UTC) The DRC was closely linked to and heavily influenced the Afrikaner Broederbond, a secret white male society that exercised great influence over the National Party and the nationalist Apartheid government, with members often placed in influential positions in both government and the private sector. The involvement of the DRC via the Afrikaner Boederbond is a further manifestation of the power of the DRC in influencing and propping up the Afrikaner Calvinist nature of the Apartheid governments.