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Does anyone know the chromosome number for Neanderthals? 86.176.188.78 ( talk) 02:15, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
We do not have preserved tissues from Neanderthals to know for sure what their chromosome number was. But because they are the same species as we are (Homo sapiens), it is very likely their chromosome number was the same as ours.----
Likely is not good enough. Why? Primates have 48 chromosomes. Humans have 46. Were Neanderthals an extension or evolved form of primate, or were they humans? Archaic history hints that 'gods' (interstellar space travellers) made us human by hybridization and that action made humans 'chosen' to carry their genes (a process that leaps the hurdle of a missing link). I'd think science would be making more of an effort to see why this major discrepancy exists seeing that human cross-breeding with Neanderthals has occurred (and the results were always more human). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almas_(cryptozoology) and http://cryptozoo.monstrous.com/zana.htm for a relatively recent example, and who can say how many still exist roaming the wilds of the world. 67.225.52.80 ( talk) 15:23, 4 November 2012 (UTC) Frankly not so academic
Much of this article is still material added during the early phase of the project. Most of the "criticism" stuff is obsolede, or at least only of historical interest. Such "criticism" as seems relevant should be put into the "history" section. Otoh, the publication of the draft should be moved out of the history section, as these is a project result, not project history. It can be moved into "history" once they publish a definite sequence. -- dab (𒁳) 10:50, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
I've copied the following from a section I made on the "Heritability of Autism" page. My only request is that you read before you delete:
The Journal of Evolutionary Psychology just published a paper that supports the hypothesis that the confirmed neanderthal admixture event(s) provided cognitive variations that were subsequently selected for, sometimes causing a locus of deleterious recombinations in the genomes of children with parents who selected one another for those characteristics: http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/EP09207238.pdf
Here are some peer reviewed sources that imply a link between the genes garnered via neanderthal admixture and the genes that code for ASDs:
The fact that the male side of the admixture(s) was/were strictly neanderthal would mean that we share none of their mtDNA. This explains the lack of mtDNA abnormality and the existence of mitochondrial dysfunction in people with ASDs: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2350/12/50
The neanderthal haplotype described in this 2011 paper is x-linked: http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/01/25/molbev.msr024.full.pdf+html
More evidence is cited in this wrongplanet thread: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp3696657.html#3696657 Slartibartfastibast ( talk) 21:32, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
How is this not mentioned? It is proven that loads of people are in fact part-Neanderthal. With it tiny percents, like one of the paragraphs in this page mentions was predicted (1% - 4%). That should be in articles, on this wikipedia page, on other wikipedia pages where it's relevant, etc. So, why are scientists ignoring this research material, and evidence? And, why doesn't it get mention on related wikipedia pages? Even without this evidence, you can clearly see that many people alive today are part-Neanderthal, because they literally have obvious Neanderthal morphology, while of heritage where the Neanderthals were. How is it that after the finding that many people are probably 1-to-4% Neanderthal got followed by BS about how Homo Sapiens Sapiens weren't in the area yet, when the DNA PROVES humans were in the area? This, and other Wikipedia pages are in dire need of correction. As is the outdated dogma many people are teaching in direct defiance of LOADS of scientific evidence. While Wikipedia editors can't do anything about the latter, you CAN do something about inaccuracies on wikipedia pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.19.240.244 ( talk) 20:08, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
Because this proves homo sapiens are a bunch of psycopaths that exterminated neanderthal individuals in the biggest genocide, with cannibalism included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.30.193.35 ( talk) 15:56, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
They say you are what you eat...
Has anybody looked into the possibility that Neanderthal genes in humans (assuming there actually are any) might result from early humans EATING Neanderthals and not from mating with them? Cro Magnons killing and eating Neanderthals has been verified and was probably common, while the idea of cross breeding is very difficult to believe and in fact James Shreve's "Neanderthal Peace" article flatly stated that there was zero archaeological evidence of it on the planet. Bacterial insertion is a known vector of gene accumulation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swolf46 ( talk • contribs) 17:17, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
The article claims, as an aside to FINDINGS, that humans share 98.8 % base pairs with the chimpanzee. This number, afaik, results from an older comparision of DNA which did NOT compare on the level of actual base pairs, using that method, the difference is far greater. /info/en/?search=Chimpanzee_genome_project does not make a claim like that, either. Could you please either add a reference to a study that is either recent or specifies the methodology claimed to be used here, or delete the chimpanzee reference as not factual? Thank you. 195.37.190.154 ( talk) 14:58, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
"Analysis of the specimen's nuclear DNA is under way and is expected to clarify whether the find is a distinct species". Relevant cites are dated 2010. Any updates on this? Kortoso ( talk) 19:08, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
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Ancient homo sapiens from same region? Ancient homo sapiens from elsewhere entirely? Modern local DNA donor? Modern human from elsewhere entirely??
This uneducated layman cringes each time some researcher publishes data like that in the main Neantderthal article in wikedia, and it seems like these new DNA percentages are much the same. Admitting a possible lack of understanding of more complex information, let's just go after stuff like "Males stood 164 to 168 cm (65 to 66 in) and females 152 to 156 cm (60 to 61 in) tall": 1 inch height range, REALLY????
Yet somehow there's a 6 inch difference between just 2 generations in my own family, despite (presumably) far less genetic variation than the Neanderthal race. Take it up a notch, just to females this layman has dated in this lifetime, and there's a *19* inch range (4ft 9in to 6ft 4in)... i gotta wonder if these same "scientists" would, given a skeletal xray or DNA, classify either the 4'9" girl or the 6'4" girl (same ethnicity, same city btw) as the same species, or, heck, if EITHER of them would fall into Homo sapiens at all.
And what % match would their DNA be, I do wonder.
Sloppy sloppy half-azzed research. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.67.249.167 ( talk) 14:16, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. There's no agreement at this time to perform the move given the article's current content and condition. If a rewrite does indeed occur and the content still warrants a separate page, a new RM can be opened at that time. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Steven Crossin Help resolve disputes! 05:41, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
Neanderthal genome project → Neanderthal genome – The current name was never a 'thing', just one research group's facetious play on the human genome project to describe their effort at acquiring neanderthal genome sequence. Since then there have been at least several additional findings dealing with Neanderthal genome sequencing that were not part of the original effort, and this page would be better dedicated to the topic as a whole rather than focusing on one group's now-dated and more limited initial push. Agricolae ( talk) 20:21, 2 August 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. Dicklyon ( talk) 01:10, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Neanderthal genome project article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1Auto-archiving period: 30 days |
A news item involving Neanderthal genome project was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 14 February 2009. |
A news item involving Neanderthal genome project was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 8 May 2010. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Does anyone know the chromosome number for Neanderthals? 86.176.188.78 ( talk) 02:15, 11 April 2010 (UTC)
We do not have preserved tissues from Neanderthals to know for sure what their chromosome number was. But because they are the same species as we are (Homo sapiens), it is very likely their chromosome number was the same as ours.----
Likely is not good enough. Why? Primates have 48 chromosomes. Humans have 46. Were Neanderthals an extension or evolved form of primate, or were they humans? Archaic history hints that 'gods' (interstellar space travellers) made us human by hybridization and that action made humans 'chosen' to carry their genes (a process that leaps the hurdle of a missing link). I'd think science would be making more of an effort to see why this major discrepancy exists seeing that human cross-breeding with Neanderthals has occurred (and the results were always more human). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almas_(cryptozoology) and http://cryptozoo.monstrous.com/zana.htm for a relatively recent example, and who can say how many still exist roaming the wilds of the world. 67.225.52.80 ( talk) 15:23, 4 November 2012 (UTC) Frankly not so academic
Much of this article is still material added during the early phase of the project. Most of the "criticism" stuff is obsolede, or at least only of historical interest. Such "criticism" as seems relevant should be put into the "history" section. Otoh, the publication of the draft should be moved out of the history section, as these is a project result, not project history. It can be moved into "history" once they publish a definite sequence. -- dab (𒁳) 10:50, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
I've copied the following from a section I made on the "Heritability of Autism" page. My only request is that you read before you delete:
The Journal of Evolutionary Psychology just published a paper that supports the hypothesis that the confirmed neanderthal admixture event(s) provided cognitive variations that were subsequently selected for, sometimes causing a locus of deleterious recombinations in the genomes of children with parents who selected one another for those characteristics: http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/EP09207238.pdf
Here are some peer reviewed sources that imply a link between the genes garnered via neanderthal admixture and the genes that code for ASDs:
The fact that the male side of the admixture(s) was/were strictly neanderthal would mean that we share none of their mtDNA. This explains the lack of mtDNA abnormality and the existence of mitochondrial dysfunction in people with ASDs: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2350/12/50
The neanderthal haplotype described in this 2011 paper is x-linked: http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/01/25/molbev.msr024.full.pdf+html
More evidence is cited in this wrongplanet thread: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp3696657.html#3696657 Slartibartfastibast ( talk) 21:32, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
How is this not mentioned? It is proven that loads of people are in fact part-Neanderthal. With it tiny percents, like one of the paragraphs in this page mentions was predicted (1% - 4%). That should be in articles, on this wikipedia page, on other wikipedia pages where it's relevant, etc. So, why are scientists ignoring this research material, and evidence? And, why doesn't it get mention on related wikipedia pages? Even without this evidence, you can clearly see that many people alive today are part-Neanderthal, because they literally have obvious Neanderthal morphology, while of heritage where the Neanderthals were. How is it that after the finding that many people are probably 1-to-4% Neanderthal got followed by BS about how Homo Sapiens Sapiens weren't in the area yet, when the DNA PROVES humans were in the area? This, and other Wikipedia pages are in dire need of correction. As is the outdated dogma many people are teaching in direct defiance of LOADS of scientific evidence. While Wikipedia editors can't do anything about the latter, you CAN do something about inaccuracies on wikipedia pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.19.240.244 ( talk) 20:08, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
Because this proves homo sapiens are a bunch of psycopaths that exterminated neanderthal individuals in the biggest genocide, with cannibalism included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.30.193.35 ( talk) 15:56, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
They say you are what you eat...
Has anybody looked into the possibility that Neanderthal genes in humans (assuming there actually are any) might result from early humans EATING Neanderthals and not from mating with them? Cro Magnons killing and eating Neanderthals has been verified and was probably common, while the idea of cross breeding is very difficult to believe and in fact James Shreve's "Neanderthal Peace" article flatly stated that there was zero archaeological evidence of it on the planet. Bacterial insertion is a known vector of gene accumulation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swolf46 ( talk • contribs) 17:17, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
The article claims, as an aside to FINDINGS, that humans share 98.8 % base pairs with the chimpanzee. This number, afaik, results from an older comparision of DNA which did NOT compare on the level of actual base pairs, using that method, the difference is far greater. /info/en/?search=Chimpanzee_genome_project does not make a claim like that, either. Could you please either add a reference to a study that is either recent or specifies the methodology claimed to be used here, or delete the chimpanzee reference as not factual? Thank you. 195.37.190.154 ( talk) 14:58, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
"Analysis of the specimen's nuclear DNA is under way and is expected to clarify whether the find is a distinct species". Relevant cites are dated 2010. Any updates on this? Kortoso ( talk) 19:08, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Neanderthal genome project. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:11, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Ancient homo sapiens from same region? Ancient homo sapiens from elsewhere entirely? Modern local DNA donor? Modern human from elsewhere entirely??
This uneducated layman cringes each time some researcher publishes data like that in the main Neantderthal article in wikedia, and it seems like these new DNA percentages are much the same. Admitting a possible lack of understanding of more complex information, let's just go after stuff like "Males stood 164 to 168 cm (65 to 66 in) and females 152 to 156 cm (60 to 61 in) tall": 1 inch height range, REALLY????
Yet somehow there's a 6 inch difference between just 2 generations in my own family, despite (presumably) far less genetic variation than the Neanderthal race. Take it up a notch, just to females this layman has dated in this lifetime, and there's a *19* inch range (4ft 9in to 6ft 4in)... i gotta wonder if these same "scientists" would, given a skeletal xray or DNA, classify either the 4'9" girl or the 6'4" girl (same ethnicity, same city btw) as the same species, or, heck, if EITHER of them would fall into Homo sapiens at all.
And what % match would their DNA be, I do wonder.
Sloppy sloppy half-azzed research. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.67.249.167 ( talk) 14:16, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. There's no agreement at this time to perform the move given the article's current content and condition. If a rewrite does indeed occur and the content still warrants a separate page, a new RM can be opened at that time. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Steven Crossin Help resolve disputes! 05:41, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
Neanderthal genome project → Neanderthal genome – The current name was never a 'thing', just one research group's facetious play on the human genome project to describe their effort at acquiring neanderthal genome sequence. Since then there have been at least several additional findings dealing with Neanderthal genome sequencing that were not part of the original effort, and this page would be better dedicated to the topic as a whole rather than focusing on one group's now-dated and more limited initial push. Agricolae ( talk) 20:21, 2 August 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. Dicklyon ( talk) 01:10, 11 August 2019 (UTC)