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This article is more or less a duplicate of Naval Ram. It does have information that the other doesn't, so it should be merged rather than just deleted. Any thoughts? Parsecboy 15:07, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
The assertion that Taureau was the first ram built in the modern era is ambiguous. I presume that you mean 'built from the keel up,' as several modern rams preceded her in the American Civil War. The first of these was CSS Manassas [1] Better known was the noted CSS Virginia (ex-USS Merrimack (sic, not Merrimac)). [2] The latter made a successful ramming attack on USS Cumberland during the Battle of Hampton Roads, 8 March 1862. PKKloeppel Pkkphysicist ( talk) 09:42, 28 March 2008 (UTC)Pkkphysicist
(Minor edit of the above.) PKKloeppel ( talk) 02:50, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
In the section The Athlit Ram, the wording "to prevent that the ram twisted off and damage the attacking ship" isn't very good English.
I suggest "to prevent the ram twisting off and damaging the attacking ship" is better. R L Lacchin (Gloucester, UK) ( talk) 14:49, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
Does the Athlit artefact merit its own article? This information should be included somewhere:
DancesWithGrues ( talk) 08:42, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
Since 2005 several ancient rams possibly related to the Battle of the Aegates Islands of 241 BC have been found north of Sicily. Two were attributed to Punic, seven or eight to Roman ships:
http://archeologiaedintorni.blogspot.de/2012/07/ritrovato-un-nuovo-rostro-nord-ovest-di.html
Another ram was found 2008 at Acqualadroni near Messina, possibly related to the Battle of Naulochus between Sextus Pompeius and Agrippa in 36 BC:
http://svagheggio.forumfree.it/?t=32376003
--
176.6.110.63 (
talk) 15:24, 18 November 2012 (UTC) Marco Pagliero Berlin
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Excellent article all round.
I note the following, however: " The fixation on ramming may also have inhibited the development of gunnery". This may not be especially valid an assessment, since there were numerous attempts to improve the accuracy of gunfire from ironclads, as early as the 1870s.
For example, HMS Monarch was completed with an early form of what would later be termed centralised fire control, being completed with a spotting top equipped with voice tubes to communicate corrections to ranging back to the gun turrets. Notably unsuccessful when first employed at Alexandria, due to noise in the turrets drowning out the voice commands, it was however used with success by HMS Carysfort and HMS Orion a short time later.
Methods of accurately controlling warships' main batteries continued apace during the last two decades of the century, as innovators like Fiske came up with systems which appeared workable on paper but were somewhat ahead of the technology to provide effective equipment, until the Barr & Stroud rangefinder entered service.
In the meantime, gun technology proceeded in line with advances in both metallurgy and propellants, allowing significantly longer battle ranges as early as 1894 at the Yalu, where fighting took place at greater ranges than at Angamos a decade and a half earlier.
So really there is little evidence that the supposed 'ram mania' retarded the development of longer-ranged naval gunnery - if anything, it was technological lag which held back these developments for a couple of decades. The effort was certainly there.
Otherwise, a pretty exceptional article. 2A00:23C7:3119:AD01:1976:2278:946D:2C45 ( talk) 19:24, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
The § Experimental archaeology section smells like COI to me; the only two edits by Kratos1994 ( talk · contribs), and misuse of inline external links (now corrected). I've left them a message on their UTP. Mathglot ( talk) 03:14, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
This is the
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Naval ram article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
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This article is more or less a duplicate of Naval Ram. It does have information that the other doesn't, so it should be merged rather than just deleted. Any thoughts? Parsecboy 15:07, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
The assertion that Taureau was the first ram built in the modern era is ambiguous. I presume that you mean 'built from the keel up,' as several modern rams preceded her in the American Civil War. The first of these was CSS Manassas [1] Better known was the noted CSS Virginia (ex-USS Merrimack (sic, not Merrimac)). [2] The latter made a successful ramming attack on USS Cumberland during the Battle of Hampton Roads, 8 March 1862. PKKloeppel Pkkphysicist ( talk) 09:42, 28 March 2008 (UTC)Pkkphysicist
(Minor edit of the above.) PKKloeppel ( talk) 02:50, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
In the section The Athlit Ram, the wording "to prevent that the ram twisted off and damage the attacking ship" isn't very good English.
I suggest "to prevent the ram twisting off and damaging the attacking ship" is better. R L Lacchin (Gloucester, UK) ( talk) 14:49, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
Does the Athlit artefact merit its own article? This information should be included somewhere:
DancesWithGrues ( talk) 08:42, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
Since 2005 several ancient rams possibly related to the Battle of the Aegates Islands of 241 BC have been found north of Sicily. Two were attributed to Punic, seven or eight to Roman ships:
http://archeologiaedintorni.blogspot.de/2012/07/ritrovato-un-nuovo-rostro-nord-ovest-di.html
Another ram was found 2008 at Acqualadroni near Messina, possibly related to the Battle of Naulochus between Sextus Pompeius and Agrippa in 36 BC:
http://svagheggio.forumfree.it/?t=32376003
--
176.6.110.63 (
talk) 15:24, 18 November 2012 (UTC) Marco Pagliero Berlin
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Naval ram. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:57, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
Excellent article all round.
I note the following, however: " The fixation on ramming may also have inhibited the development of gunnery". This may not be especially valid an assessment, since there were numerous attempts to improve the accuracy of gunfire from ironclads, as early as the 1870s.
For example, HMS Monarch was completed with an early form of what would later be termed centralised fire control, being completed with a spotting top equipped with voice tubes to communicate corrections to ranging back to the gun turrets. Notably unsuccessful when first employed at Alexandria, due to noise in the turrets drowning out the voice commands, it was however used with success by HMS Carysfort and HMS Orion a short time later.
Methods of accurately controlling warships' main batteries continued apace during the last two decades of the century, as innovators like Fiske came up with systems which appeared workable on paper but were somewhat ahead of the technology to provide effective equipment, until the Barr & Stroud rangefinder entered service.
In the meantime, gun technology proceeded in line with advances in both metallurgy and propellants, allowing significantly longer battle ranges as early as 1894 at the Yalu, where fighting took place at greater ranges than at Angamos a decade and a half earlier.
So really there is little evidence that the supposed 'ram mania' retarded the development of longer-ranged naval gunnery - if anything, it was technological lag which held back these developments for a couple of decades. The effort was certainly there.
Otherwise, a pretty exceptional article. 2A00:23C7:3119:AD01:1976:2278:946D:2C45 ( talk) 19:24, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
The § Experimental archaeology section smells like COI to me; the only two edits by Kratos1994 ( talk · contribs), and misuse of inline external links (now corrected). I've left them a message on their UTP. Mathglot ( talk) 03:14, 1 August 2023 (UTC)