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The naming convention I am using here is to capitalize both words as per a proper noun for both " Natural Farming" (Fukuoka's method) and " Nature Farming" (Okada's method).
The logic behind it is to remove any confusion that such farming systems are simply "natural farming", as in using natural as a purely descriptive adjective, because ultimately no farming is "natural". Ditto "nature farming", as in 'farming natures', on its own does make sense (e.g. potato farming = farming potatoes, nature farming = farming nature).
The source use for this division was 'Sustainable Agriculture: Definition and Terms' published by the Agricultural Research Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture. -- Iyo-farm ( talk) 08:11, 13 May 2011 (UTC)-- Iyo-farm ( talk) 08:07, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
See: Nature : "This article is about the physical universe." = The Universe – The Cosmos; as interwiki–linked–to therein: (in Japanese): 自然 (shizen / jinen).-- macropneuma 05:57, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved; "Wikipedia avoids unnecessary capitalization." WP:MOSCAPS. As far as I can tell, Macropneuma's comment is not in opposition to this move, but rather suggests a radical refactoring of this article. This closure certainly isn't meant to prejudice against doing that. ErikHaugen ( talk | contribs) 19:59, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
Natural Farming → Natural farming – Capitalization not necessary, as per Forest gardening developed by Robert Hart. Nirvana2013 ( talk) 10:54, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
I suppose a category for Natural Farming could be a sub-page of another category but the small number of articles is not a limitation to inclusion. It is all to do with being specific and accurate.
I am unsure from the discussion that the two individuals had any awareness of Natural Farming as being something specific to Fukuoka rather than considering it just as an adjectival phrase. There is nothing in that discussion, or this one, to suggest that they did.
There are a number of quotes where Natural Farming is capitalised, although I accept that it is not universal written that way. It just seems to be the only convenient way in which to separate a general or confusing adjectival phrase; natural farming (no farming is "natural"), from a specific method; Natural Farming. A point underline by an alternative system Nature Farming, e.g. [1].
I understand the Wikipedia generally only capitalises the first word of a title but I think this is a different case here as per " Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Trademarks".
Did you considered it from a Fukuoka point of view. Thanks.-- Iyo-farm ( talk) 13:47, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
See Plant_propagation An important issue in any organic farming, natural farming and biodynamic farming is that one can produce one's own seed (hence many take care to choose crop cultivars that produce very fertile seeds -heirloom crops, ...-) . However, using crops that do not produce viable seeds (and so can only be propagated vegetatively) seems to be more ecologic in some ways, as it prevents the accidental propogation (by birds, ...) of these non-native crops into the surrounding environment.
Perhaps useful to mention in article KVDP ( talk) 14:39, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
Propose: Merge Nature Farming into natural farming per 自然農法 ( Google English translation) plus add relevant information from Japanese Wikipedia article. Nirvana2013 ( talk) 11:39, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
Hi there, Maybe this quote isn't exactly true: "For example, Sepp Holzer, an Austrian permaculture farmer, advocates the creation of terraces on slopes to control soil erosion. Fukuoka avoided the creation of terraces in his farm, even though terraces were common in China and Japan in his time. Instead, he prevented soil erosion by simply growing trees and shrubs on slopes."
I think it is the other way around. Although Sepp Holzer advocates teracing, all he does is to build level roads between slopes. Fukuoka on the other hand does write that it is 'a good idea to dig the soil from behind the trees and form terraces, once established' (natural way of farming), he even emphasizes that it matters whether terraces are exactly level, or almost level. (He was a scientist after all)
Jurgen, Netherlands — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.145.221.213 ( talk) 09:55, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
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I wonder how the development of the "Other forms of natural farming" came about?
I thought this article was about Masanobu Fukuoka's natural farming, not some kind of general use of the term (ultimately no farming is "natural"). I changed it from "variants" which, obviously, they were not.
Should not actually be deleted or reduced down to see alsos. -- 92.8.220.60 ( talk) 18:11, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
I hate to have to be the elephant in the room, but as good as what everything this guy touches is in terms of principles and ideals,.. -WHEN, nature can,.. -WHEN,.. the soil can,.. -WHEN,.. there's sufficient shade,.. whatever,..
... have his methods stood up to control testing, in the exact opposite,.. harsh, arid, difficult conditions, rather than quite absurdly, rich volcanic Japanese soils?
I've no doubt he was not naive to think that everyone has such soils, but in terms of universality?
i.e. AFTER seeing more of the world first-hand, did his practices change, or did he suggest modifications, or perhaps sub-sets of choices of methods, for especially difficult conditions, etc?
OR,
did he just sit there pretending as though they were universal?
it would be a fair criticism, if he did, he's far from the first to want for no-one to have to use artificial means.
So, i'm suggesting 2 new sections ; 1 Criticisms, including the above if that's the case,
&
2 A historical shift, or suggested focus, as his response to criticism?..
... if that was his response to the need - it probably wouldn't convince everyone, but it should be in the page, if he tried addressing the shhortfalls with something like that. Or whatever else his suggestions might've been - so say, if he suggested MINIMAL fertilisation, or MINIMAL aquaengineering,.. i don't know,.. whatever. 120.21.218.12 ( talk) 20:01, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Natural farming article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
The naming convention I am using here is to capitalize both words as per a proper noun for both " Natural Farming" (Fukuoka's method) and " Nature Farming" (Okada's method).
The logic behind it is to remove any confusion that such farming systems are simply "natural farming", as in using natural as a purely descriptive adjective, because ultimately no farming is "natural". Ditto "nature farming", as in 'farming natures', on its own does make sense (e.g. potato farming = farming potatoes, nature farming = farming nature).
The source use for this division was 'Sustainable Agriculture: Definition and Terms' published by the Agricultural Research Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture. -- Iyo-farm ( talk) 08:11, 13 May 2011 (UTC)-- Iyo-farm ( talk) 08:07, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
See: Nature : "This article is about the physical universe." = The Universe – The Cosmos; as interwiki–linked–to therein: (in Japanese): 自然 (shizen / jinen).-- macropneuma 05:57, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved; "Wikipedia avoids unnecessary capitalization." WP:MOSCAPS. As far as I can tell, Macropneuma's comment is not in opposition to this move, but rather suggests a radical refactoring of this article. This closure certainly isn't meant to prejudice against doing that. ErikHaugen ( talk | contribs) 19:59, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
Natural Farming → Natural farming – Capitalization not necessary, as per Forest gardening developed by Robert Hart. Nirvana2013 ( talk) 10:54, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
I suppose a category for Natural Farming could be a sub-page of another category but the small number of articles is not a limitation to inclusion. It is all to do with being specific and accurate.
I am unsure from the discussion that the two individuals had any awareness of Natural Farming as being something specific to Fukuoka rather than considering it just as an adjectival phrase. There is nothing in that discussion, or this one, to suggest that they did.
There are a number of quotes where Natural Farming is capitalised, although I accept that it is not universal written that way. It just seems to be the only convenient way in which to separate a general or confusing adjectival phrase; natural farming (no farming is "natural"), from a specific method; Natural Farming. A point underline by an alternative system Nature Farming, e.g. [1].
I understand the Wikipedia generally only capitalises the first word of a title but I think this is a different case here as per " Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Trademarks".
Did you considered it from a Fukuoka point of view. Thanks.-- Iyo-farm ( talk) 13:47, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
See Plant_propagation An important issue in any organic farming, natural farming and biodynamic farming is that one can produce one's own seed (hence many take care to choose crop cultivars that produce very fertile seeds -heirloom crops, ...-) . However, using crops that do not produce viable seeds (and so can only be propagated vegetatively) seems to be more ecologic in some ways, as it prevents the accidental propogation (by birds, ...) of these non-native crops into the surrounding environment.
Perhaps useful to mention in article KVDP ( talk) 14:39, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
Propose: Merge Nature Farming into natural farming per 自然農法 ( Google English translation) plus add relevant information from Japanese Wikipedia article. Nirvana2013 ( talk) 11:39, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
Hi there, Maybe this quote isn't exactly true: "For example, Sepp Holzer, an Austrian permaculture farmer, advocates the creation of terraces on slopes to control soil erosion. Fukuoka avoided the creation of terraces in his farm, even though terraces were common in China and Japan in his time. Instead, he prevented soil erosion by simply growing trees and shrubs on slopes."
I think it is the other way around. Although Sepp Holzer advocates teracing, all he does is to build level roads between slopes. Fukuoka on the other hand does write that it is 'a good idea to dig the soil from behind the trees and form terraces, once established' (natural way of farming), he even emphasizes that it matters whether terraces are exactly level, or almost level. (He was a scientist after all)
Jurgen, Netherlands — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.145.221.213 ( talk) 09:55, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Natural farming. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:30, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
I wonder how the development of the "Other forms of natural farming" came about?
I thought this article was about Masanobu Fukuoka's natural farming, not some kind of general use of the term (ultimately no farming is "natural"). I changed it from "variants" which, obviously, they were not.
Should not actually be deleted or reduced down to see alsos. -- 92.8.220.60 ( talk) 18:11, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
I hate to have to be the elephant in the room, but as good as what everything this guy touches is in terms of principles and ideals,.. -WHEN, nature can,.. -WHEN,.. the soil can,.. -WHEN,.. there's sufficient shade,.. whatever,..
... have his methods stood up to control testing, in the exact opposite,.. harsh, arid, difficult conditions, rather than quite absurdly, rich volcanic Japanese soils?
I've no doubt he was not naive to think that everyone has such soils, but in terms of universality?
i.e. AFTER seeing more of the world first-hand, did his practices change, or did he suggest modifications, or perhaps sub-sets of choices of methods, for especially difficult conditions, etc?
OR,
did he just sit there pretending as though they were universal?
it would be a fair criticism, if he did, he's far from the first to want for no-one to have to use artificial means.
So, i'm suggesting 2 new sections ; 1 Criticisms, including the above if that's the case,
&
2 A historical shift, or suggested focus, as his response to criticism?..
... if that was his response to the need - it probably wouldn't convince everyone, but it should be in the page, if he tried addressing the shhortfalls with something like that. Or whatever else his suggestions might've been - so say, if he suggested MINIMAL fertilisation, or MINIMAL aquaengineering,.. i don't know,.. whatever. 120.21.218.12 ( talk) 20:01, 6 June 2023 (UTC)