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![]() | Text and/or other creative content from this version of Neapolitan nativity scene was copied or moved into Nativity scene with this edit on 4 February 2024. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
This article does make clear if all nativity scenes refer to the birth of Jesus. For example it says "usually capitalized if referring to the birth of Jesus" then in the same sentence "generally refers to any depiction of the birth or birthplace of Jesus" which is it? Is it ever used as not refering to Jesus's birth? 2ct7 13:42, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Removed some unreferenced and POV claims, of which part is The nativity scene is actually a corrupted interpretation of the biblical/Jewish holiday of Sukkot, or also called "festival of booths". Anyone got any references for this? Goldfritha 04:01, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
someone might want to look at the really odd cultural reference section-misspellings and incorrect sentence structure abound, and it really looks as if some kid decided to add in an account of playing with them at home on christmas eve.
Peta-x 12:07, 20 December 2006 (UTC) hi I notice that the "crapper" is said to be a Catalan only tradition. I live the centre of the basque country, and I note that this character is in every nativity scene here too, I suggest that the tradition started in Catalonia and has been adopted in the Basque country. Perhaps as a symbol of the rebellious, separatist north of the Iberian peninsular
I don't have strong views about which it should be, but I think it should be consistent. If nobody objects, I'd like to make them all the same, but I'll wait a day or two to see if people prefer capitals or small letters. ElinorD 21:08, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Can we get a reference for it being called a crib in the US. I've herd nativity scene, nativity set, creche, manger scene, but never crib. Basejumper2 ( talk) 22:42, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
WAY too many pictures on this page. I think the number of pictures should be significantly reduced, it makes the text hard to concentrate on. Sobar 22:05, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
I refer to the statement:
Some wonder if an Anti-Christian sentiment lurks behind the thefts.[46]
This seems gratuitously tendentious, and there is a telling use of the weasel words “some wonder.” Since it is footnoted, one gets the idea that there must be something in the footnote concerning these “some” who are “wondering.” However, the pertinent phrase in the article, from Fox News, actually tends to state the opposite (that it is not being done by the so-called “anti-Christians”):
The incidents raise a question: Is stealing Baby Jesus harmless juvenile fun, or anti-Christian?
"I suspect most of it is childish pranks," said attorney Mike Johnson of the Alliance Defense Fund, a conservative Christian legal group. "Clearly, there are adults with an agenda to remove Christ from Christmas. But they tend to occupy themselves with the courts and courtroom of public opinion."
This raises the question: Was this sentence craftily crafted by a Christian out to deceive us? This is beside the point though, and it would be better to simply have it removed. AtomAnt ( talk) 12:21, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
I very rarely do any editing, but someone directed me to this page today in reference to Nativity Controversies. Note 40 and 41, citations for instances of bans on nativity scenes lead only to an ISBN number for a book by David Limbaugh; they provide no page numbers. Is this proper citation practice?
Because I was curious, I searched amazon's digital record of the book, and found his citation, which just a press release from a Christian organization with no citations of their own. After some effort, I finally found the detailed case law on the specific case referenced. ( http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-2nd-circuit/1351830.html) Obviously that's a much better citation than an unnumbered citation to a book, should I simply replace it?
Again, I'm not at all an experienced editor, but am a little concerned that the listed citation was so difficult to actually track down to a legitimate source. Is this common practice, to link to a book that may or may not be embellishing the facts? Danweasel ( talk) 21:19, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I came to this page to understand why there are so many different name. Do they mean different types? Or are the purely regional (like soft drink names)? If anyone can please help, I'd be grateful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.126.217.103 ( talk) 12:37, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
This is my first time editing a page so I'm not sure what the protocol is but I would like to bring to your attention the questionable nature of one the quotes cited in this article. I have read the source 'Holy Dogs and Asses: Animals in the Christian Tradition' which is used as a reference in the section animals in nativity scenes completely. However this sentence "Then was fulfilled that which was said by Habakkuk the prophet, saying, "Between two animals you are made manifest."[15] I have been unable to location or any mention of Habakkuk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.64.72.239 ( talk) 10:56, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
Playmobil has done several Nativity scenes throughout the years (examples here, here, here, and here) - this could be mentioned in a section below the Lego one. I'd do it myself but the page is green starred and I am loath to tamper with it casually. - Metalello talk 01:19, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Editor WILRIT has again added an entire section on the nativity scene displays in Australia. The first time I deleted it seemed like a major copyright violation, especially the first two paragraphs. Even with the recent edits it still seems like one but I can't find the exact article that the second half came from so will give the benefit of the doubt. I removed a majority of the section due to issues of WP:PEACOCK. It wasn't very encyclopedic in nature and seemed more like an advertisement. I question whether this particular nativity scene is notable enough for Wikipedia. Please provide a reliable source that shows this is notable outside of one particular parish/region. Many churches have historic nativity scenes and many date back a long time before 2004. How is this more notable then them? Marauder40 ( talk) 13:39, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
I would want us to figure out a way to deal with the multi-cultural nature of the subject, without it becoming either a mere listing nor going too heavily to a few examples, which is sort of the current state, nor becoming the center of the article. Maybe a Nativity Scenes In The World as a separate article? African, Latino culture are barely represented right now. Please advice. The recent issue with Australia point this out. I am also a bit concerned about the very time-limited nature of some of that content. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yamaplos ( talk • contribs) 19:27, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
I see a lot of overlap and disconnection between those three articles. I.e., the issue of the Vatican portraying Matthew instead of Luke falls squarely into the Nativity of Jesus article, as it deals with theological/content interpretations. Likewise, Nativity of Jesus in Art seems to be about 2D depictions and Nativity Scene about 3D depictions, but there is obvious overlap if we only see the titles. Maybe some elegant disambiguation line indicating that 2D is elsewhere? right now Nativity of Jesus in Art is not even mentioned in See Also. Opinions, advice appreciated. This might be a candidate to "good" article by its writing, but is rather not quite there for its content, IMHO... YamaPlos talk 19:34, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
I would have thought that Nativity of Jesus in art was important enough to have a more prominent mention in this article, and could at least go in the "See also" list. Vorbee ( talk) 17:53, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
Edits I am making are repeatedly being reverted, by an editor who seems, IMHO, to be inventing her own WP policy. Links can and are often duplicated in an article, as within the text and in "Also see". It is quite common! Just see the sister article Nativity of Jesus in art, it does call for this article, Nativity scene, both in the text and also in the Also See. Please, Marauder80, let us do work, please! FYI, it would be extremely easy to make an official bot to clean such links, if there was a need and policy, which there is not! Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but don't pretend it's some sort of rule, if it's just your opinion. Could you please let us build? you are welcome to build with us, you know! If you disagree, please put the issue in the Talk page and let us talk about it, OK? YamaPlos talk 00:58, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Whether a link belongs in the 'See also' section is ultimately a matter of editorial judgment and common sense. The links in the 'See also' section should be relevant, should reflect the links that would be present in a comprehensive article on the topic, and should be limited to a reasonable number. As a general rule, the 'See also' section should not repeat links that appear in the article's body or its navigation boxes.
So far the examples section is a jumble of specific examples (way too narrow and not quite encyclopaedic, IMHO), national, and institutional approaches. The crèche as a popular phenomenon might be very localized, and respond to specific patterns of religious and secular policy, and be quite different from "official" versions.
My feeling would be to do a regional thing, but that fails in traditions that cross borders. Now, if we go to specific traditions, those have local variations... Opinions? maybe the best would be to clean up some, and have both? Likely, as with any compromise, we will end with "all of the above and then some. Oh well :-) I guess all if fine as that might be easier for more editors to add valuable material YamaPlos talk 23:44, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
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This is the last ItsLassieTime-related GAR, I promise. This is another situation where the primary author is a banned sockpuppet of the above and had a history of copyvios (see Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/ItsLassieTime) but honestly I'd be sending this here even if that wasn't the case. The traditions and controversies sections almost feel like random picking and choosing and some of it feels a bit like undue weight. A lot of the sources are offline with no page numbers, which normally would not be only a minor issue, but because of the copyright concerns above it makes many of the refs impossible to verify. Wizardman 02:02, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. — SamX [ talk · contribs 06:21, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Nativity scene article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | Nativity scene was one of the Philosophy and religion good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Delisted good article |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Text and/or other creative content from this version of Neapolitan nativity scene was copied or moved into Nativity scene with this edit on 4 February 2024. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
This article does make clear if all nativity scenes refer to the birth of Jesus. For example it says "usually capitalized if referring to the birth of Jesus" then in the same sentence "generally refers to any depiction of the birth or birthplace of Jesus" which is it? Is it ever used as not refering to Jesus's birth? 2ct7 13:42, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Removed some unreferenced and POV claims, of which part is The nativity scene is actually a corrupted interpretation of the biblical/Jewish holiday of Sukkot, or also called "festival of booths". Anyone got any references for this? Goldfritha 04:01, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
someone might want to look at the really odd cultural reference section-misspellings and incorrect sentence structure abound, and it really looks as if some kid decided to add in an account of playing with them at home on christmas eve.
Peta-x 12:07, 20 December 2006 (UTC) hi I notice that the "crapper" is said to be a Catalan only tradition. I live the centre of the basque country, and I note that this character is in every nativity scene here too, I suggest that the tradition started in Catalonia and has been adopted in the Basque country. Perhaps as a symbol of the rebellious, separatist north of the Iberian peninsular
I don't have strong views about which it should be, but I think it should be consistent. If nobody objects, I'd like to make them all the same, but I'll wait a day or two to see if people prefer capitals or small letters. ElinorD 21:08, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Can we get a reference for it being called a crib in the US. I've herd nativity scene, nativity set, creche, manger scene, but never crib. Basejumper2 ( talk) 22:42, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
WAY too many pictures on this page. I think the number of pictures should be significantly reduced, it makes the text hard to concentrate on. Sobar 22:05, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
I refer to the statement:
Some wonder if an Anti-Christian sentiment lurks behind the thefts.[46]
This seems gratuitously tendentious, and there is a telling use of the weasel words “some wonder.” Since it is footnoted, one gets the idea that there must be something in the footnote concerning these “some” who are “wondering.” However, the pertinent phrase in the article, from Fox News, actually tends to state the opposite (that it is not being done by the so-called “anti-Christians”):
The incidents raise a question: Is stealing Baby Jesus harmless juvenile fun, or anti-Christian?
"I suspect most of it is childish pranks," said attorney Mike Johnson of the Alliance Defense Fund, a conservative Christian legal group. "Clearly, there are adults with an agenda to remove Christ from Christmas. But they tend to occupy themselves with the courts and courtroom of public opinion."
This raises the question: Was this sentence craftily crafted by a Christian out to deceive us? This is beside the point though, and it would be better to simply have it removed. AtomAnt ( talk) 12:21, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
I very rarely do any editing, but someone directed me to this page today in reference to Nativity Controversies. Note 40 and 41, citations for instances of bans on nativity scenes lead only to an ISBN number for a book by David Limbaugh; they provide no page numbers. Is this proper citation practice?
Because I was curious, I searched amazon's digital record of the book, and found his citation, which just a press release from a Christian organization with no citations of their own. After some effort, I finally found the detailed case law on the specific case referenced. ( http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-2nd-circuit/1351830.html) Obviously that's a much better citation than an unnumbered citation to a book, should I simply replace it?
Again, I'm not at all an experienced editor, but am a little concerned that the listed citation was so difficult to actually track down to a legitimate source. Is this common practice, to link to a book that may or may not be embellishing the facts? Danweasel ( talk) 21:19, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I came to this page to understand why there are so many different name. Do they mean different types? Or are the purely regional (like soft drink names)? If anyone can please help, I'd be grateful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.126.217.103 ( talk) 12:37, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
This is my first time editing a page so I'm not sure what the protocol is but I would like to bring to your attention the questionable nature of one the quotes cited in this article. I have read the source 'Holy Dogs and Asses: Animals in the Christian Tradition' which is used as a reference in the section animals in nativity scenes completely. However this sentence "Then was fulfilled that which was said by Habakkuk the prophet, saying, "Between two animals you are made manifest."[15] I have been unable to location or any mention of Habakkuk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.64.72.239 ( talk) 10:56, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
Playmobil has done several Nativity scenes throughout the years (examples here, here, here, and here) - this could be mentioned in a section below the Lego one. I'd do it myself but the page is green starred and I am loath to tamper with it casually. - Metalello talk 01:19, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
Editor WILRIT has again added an entire section on the nativity scene displays in Australia. The first time I deleted it seemed like a major copyright violation, especially the first two paragraphs. Even with the recent edits it still seems like one but I can't find the exact article that the second half came from so will give the benefit of the doubt. I removed a majority of the section due to issues of WP:PEACOCK. It wasn't very encyclopedic in nature and seemed more like an advertisement. I question whether this particular nativity scene is notable enough for Wikipedia. Please provide a reliable source that shows this is notable outside of one particular parish/region. Many churches have historic nativity scenes and many date back a long time before 2004. How is this more notable then them? Marauder40 ( talk) 13:39, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
I would want us to figure out a way to deal with the multi-cultural nature of the subject, without it becoming either a mere listing nor going too heavily to a few examples, which is sort of the current state, nor becoming the center of the article. Maybe a Nativity Scenes In The World as a separate article? African, Latino culture are barely represented right now. Please advice. The recent issue with Australia point this out. I am also a bit concerned about the very time-limited nature of some of that content. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yamaplos ( talk • contribs) 19:27, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
I see a lot of overlap and disconnection between those three articles. I.e., the issue of the Vatican portraying Matthew instead of Luke falls squarely into the Nativity of Jesus article, as it deals with theological/content interpretations. Likewise, Nativity of Jesus in Art seems to be about 2D depictions and Nativity Scene about 3D depictions, but there is obvious overlap if we only see the titles. Maybe some elegant disambiguation line indicating that 2D is elsewhere? right now Nativity of Jesus in Art is not even mentioned in See Also. Opinions, advice appreciated. This might be a candidate to "good" article by its writing, but is rather not quite there for its content, IMHO... YamaPlos talk 19:34, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
I would have thought that Nativity of Jesus in art was important enough to have a more prominent mention in this article, and could at least go in the "See also" list. Vorbee ( talk) 17:53, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
Edits I am making are repeatedly being reverted, by an editor who seems, IMHO, to be inventing her own WP policy. Links can and are often duplicated in an article, as within the text and in "Also see". It is quite common! Just see the sister article Nativity of Jesus in art, it does call for this article, Nativity scene, both in the text and also in the Also See. Please, Marauder80, let us do work, please! FYI, it would be extremely easy to make an official bot to clean such links, if there was a need and policy, which there is not! Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but don't pretend it's some sort of rule, if it's just your opinion. Could you please let us build? you are welcome to build with us, you know! If you disagree, please put the issue in the Talk page and let us talk about it, OK? YamaPlos talk 00:58, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Whether a link belongs in the 'See also' section is ultimately a matter of editorial judgment and common sense. The links in the 'See also' section should be relevant, should reflect the links that would be present in a comprehensive article on the topic, and should be limited to a reasonable number. As a general rule, the 'See also' section should not repeat links that appear in the article's body or its navigation boxes.
So far the examples section is a jumble of specific examples (way too narrow and not quite encyclopaedic, IMHO), national, and institutional approaches. The crèche as a popular phenomenon might be very localized, and respond to specific patterns of religious and secular policy, and be quite different from "official" versions.
My feeling would be to do a regional thing, but that fails in traditions that cross borders. Now, if we go to specific traditions, those have local variations... Opinions? maybe the best would be to clean up some, and have both? Likely, as with any compromise, we will end with "all of the above and then some. Oh well :-) I guess all if fine as that might be easier for more editors to add valuable material YamaPlos talk 23:44, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:44, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This is the last ItsLassieTime-related GAR, I promise. This is another situation where the primary author is a banned sockpuppet of the above and had a history of copyvios (see Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/ItsLassieTime) but honestly I'd be sending this here even if that wasn't the case. The traditions and controversies sections almost feel like random picking and choosing and some of it feels a bit like undue weight. A lot of the sources are offline with no page numbers, which normally would not be only a minor issue, but because of the copyright concerns above it makes many of the refs impossible to verify. Wizardman 02:02, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. — SamX [ talk · contribs 06:21, 28 September 2023 (UTC)