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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Friendly fire.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 04:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
I highly doubt pre-contact Natives were burning for horses since there weren't any in the Americas at that time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.193.149.161 ( talk) 13:33, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
Horses were present after the 15th and 16th centuries when released by the Spanish, and for a time did overlap with their fire traditions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.118.4.28 ( talk) 02:34, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
Several portions of this article are lifted word-for-word from the articles and papers cited at the bottom. Specifically: REFERENCES ON THE AMERICAN INDIAN USE OF FIRE IN ECOSYSTEMS: http://wings.buffalo.edu/anthropology/Documents/firebib.txt and Fire Management Today - Volume 64 No. 3 - Summer 2004 http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/fmt/fmt_pdfs/FMT64-3.pdf Ski mohawk ( talk) 17:57, 28 March 2014 (UTC) Ski_Mohawk 03/28/14 10:57 PDT
If you think "Many people" is a weasel word, figure out how to rephrase it so it is still a fact. There's no need to ask for a citation, it's right there at the end of the paragraph. And "Many people" is not only sourced, it happens to be the exact phrasing of the expert's public domain statement. -- SEWilco ( talk) 04:57, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 01:34, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
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I haven't looked up/through all the sources here yet, but I'm seeing glaring problems. If a source, even a University-press one, just says the Indians, the Indians, the Indians, without naming specific Nations, specific people in those Nations - by name - specific incidents and dates, AND they continually past-tense, objectify and other "the Indians"... they're not reliable. We can't use inferior stuff like that. It's inaccurate and insulting. This article was full of outdated language that shouldn't be on the 'pedia, and that language, attitude and tone was sourced to books and articles that are still cited. So, I'm considering some of these things, if not most of them, dubious. The only reason I didn't cut more is that I know landscape maintenance and forestry, and the use of controlled burns, was a thing. That's documented. But we need solid sources on this, not misinformed or biased colonial ones that, while debunking the "pristine wilderness" thing, continue to perpetuate other misinformation about Natives (like past-tensing, pan-Indian culture, etc). - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 21:24, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
This article name is completely inappropriate. It confuses a specific use of fire: controlled burns for landscape management, with all uses of fire (like for cooking, ceremony, heat, or your cousin lighting a cigarette). This should be specific to the use described in the article. It should probably also specify the time period - pre-contact, pre-colonization - though that gets very wordy. I've cleaned up the problems with past-tensing. And... if this gets updated to include re-introduction of the practice (and there is one small mention of that), we don't need era.
As there are already Controlled burn and Forest management articles, we might want to relate it to those in some way. I think another issue that is explored here is the romanticisation of the "pristine wilderness" and Noble Savage issues, vs the realities that people were already doing landscape maintenance in the Americas prior to European colonization. Some suggestions:
Or any better suggestions? - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 20:56, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
This Nature article (summarised in this Science Daily article) critcizes the theory that Native Americans made large-scale impacts on the environment. It probably should be mentioned. -- Eldomtom2 ( talk) 13:14, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
A certain user has been vandalizing some of my edits relevant to American history so I am preemptively starting a talk page topic to discuss whether folx think that we should include scholarly studies that discuss the variance as the extent of Native American ecological impacts varies across regions and time periods (including mentions of North America).
"In parts of the Americas, Indigenous people had major ecological impacts. For example, the Maya deforested much of the Meso-American landscape, supporting a large, settled population with agriculture. In interior areas of eastern North America, some Native groups farmed intensively around large villages for at least the few centuries immediately preceding European arrival. However, [...] painting all regions with one “human brush” ignores “great geographical and temporal variation in the importance of human versus environmental controls on ecosystem patterns and processes. [...] We conducted a more-detailed analysis for the coastal area for the last 2,000 years, employing 21 palaeoecological records and archaeological data from >1,800 sites. During the Middle to Late Woodland, the period of highest Native American populations of the last 14,000 years, there is no pollen or charcoal evidence for regionally extensive human impacts or open-land vegetation. Meanwhile, the archaeological data indicate that horticulture played a minor role in subsistence. Thus, there is no evidence for forest clearance, widespread farming or increased fire associated with larger Native populations."
PresidentCoriolanus ( talk) 01:13, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 3 January 2024 and 12 March 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Wormlowly, PaulRabil99 ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: PaulRabil99.
— Assignment last updated by PaulRabil99 ( talk) 19:10, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Friendly fire.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 04:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
I highly doubt pre-contact Natives were burning for horses since there weren't any in the Americas at that time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.193.149.161 ( talk) 13:33, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
Horses were present after the 15th and 16th centuries when released by the Spanish, and for a time did overlap with their fire traditions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.118.4.28 ( talk) 02:34, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
Several portions of this article are lifted word-for-word from the articles and papers cited at the bottom. Specifically: REFERENCES ON THE AMERICAN INDIAN USE OF FIRE IN ECOSYSTEMS: http://wings.buffalo.edu/anthropology/Documents/firebib.txt and Fire Management Today - Volume 64 No. 3 - Summer 2004 http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/fmt/fmt_pdfs/FMT64-3.pdf Ski mohawk ( talk) 17:57, 28 March 2014 (UTC) Ski_Mohawk 03/28/14 10:57 PDT
If you think "Many people" is a weasel word, figure out how to rephrase it so it is still a fact. There's no need to ask for a citation, it's right there at the end of the paragraph. And "Many people" is not only sourced, it happens to be the exact phrasing of the expert's public domain statement. -- SEWilco ( talk) 04:57, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Native American use of fire. Please take a moment to review
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 01:34, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
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I have just modified 2 external links on Native American use of fire. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:23, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
I haven't looked up/through all the sources here yet, but I'm seeing glaring problems. If a source, even a University-press one, just says the Indians, the Indians, the Indians, without naming specific Nations, specific people in those Nations - by name - specific incidents and dates, AND they continually past-tense, objectify and other "the Indians"... they're not reliable. We can't use inferior stuff like that. It's inaccurate and insulting. This article was full of outdated language that shouldn't be on the 'pedia, and that language, attitude and tone was sourced to books and articles that are still cited. So, I'm considering some of these things, if not most of them, dubious. The only reason I didn't cut more is that I know landscape maintenance and forestry, and the use of controlled burns, was a thing. That's documented. But we need solid sources on this, not misinformed or biased colonial ones that, while debunking the "pristine wilderness" thing, continue to perpetuate other misinformation about Natives (like past-tensing, pan-Indian culture, etc). - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 21:24, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
This article name is completely inappropriate. It confuses a specific use of fire: controlled burns for landscape management, with all uses of fire (like for cooking, ceremony, heat, or your cousin lighting a cigarette). This should be specific to the use described in the article. It should probably also specify the time period - pre-contact, pre-colonization - though that gets very wordy. I've cleaned up the problems with past-tensing. And... if this gets updated to include re-introduction of the practice (and there is one small mention of that), we don't need era.
As there are already Controlled burn and Forest management articles, we might want to relate it to those in some way. I think another issue that is explored here is the romanticisation of the "pristine wilderness" and Noble Savage issues, vs the realities that people were already doing landscape maintenance in the Americas prior to European colonization. Some suggestions:
Or any better suggestions? - CorbieV ☊ ☼ 20:56, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
This Nature article (summarised in this Science Daily article) critcizes the theory that Native Americans made large-scale impacts on the environment. It probably should be mentioned. -- Eldomtom2 ( talk) 13:14, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
A certain user has been vandalizing some of my edits relevant to American history so I am preemptively starting a talk page topic to discuss whether folx think that we should include scholarly studies that discuss the variance as the extent of Native American ecological impacts varies across regions and time periods (including mentions of North America).
"In parts of the Americas, Indigenous people had major ecological impacts. For example, the Maya deforested much of the Meso-American landscape, supporting a large, settled population with agriculture. In interior areas of eastern North America, some Native groups farmed intensively around large villages for at least the few centuries immediately preceding European arrival. However, [...] painting all regions with one “human brush” ignores “great geographical and temporal variation in the importance of human versus environmental controls on ecosystem patterns and processes. [...] We conducted a more-detailed analysis for the coastal area for the last 2,000 years, employing 21 palaeoecological records and archaeological data from >1,800 sites. During the Middle to Late Woodland, the period of highest Native American populations of the last 14,000 years, there is no pollen or charcoal evidence for regionally extensive human impacts or open-land vegetation. Meanwhile, the archaeological data indicate that horticulture played a minor role in subsistence. Thus, there is no evidence for forest clearance, widespread farming or increased fire associated with larger Native populations."
PresidentCoriolanus ( talk) 01:13, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 3 January 2024 and 12 March 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Wormlowly, PaulRabil99 ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: PaulRabil99.
— Assignment last updated by PaulRabil99 ( talk) 19:10, 19 February 2024 (UTC)