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Does anyone know what the exact name of this tournament will be? So far I've seen "4 Associations Tournament", "4 Association Tournament", "Four Associations Tournament", "Four Association Tournament" and "4 Associations Cup"! Someone set us straight! – Pee Jay 20:18, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Could you explain exactly what is wrong with the adding of a reference? national team of the Republic of Ireland.. is misleading as it suggests that ROI is the name of the nation/country involved. That is not the case so the adding of a note/reference for anyone mislead, which appears down the bottom is a good edit. Can you explain your 2 reverts? CroatiaShoes ( talk) 14:09, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
Taken from ROI talk page:
These lists should indicate to what extent the term "Republic of" is a WP:common name outside these islands.
From Republic of Ireland: Article 4 of the Irish constitution, which was adopted in 1937, provides that “the name of the state is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland”. [1] For all official purposes including in international treaties and in other legal documents, where the language of the documents is English, the Irish government uses the name Ireland. The same is true in respect of the name Éire for documents written in Irish. Institutions of the European Union follow the same practice. Since Irish became an official EU language on 1 January 2007, at EU meetings name plates for the state read as Éire - Ireland, just as the two official names are used on Irish passports. [2]
Since 1949 the Republic of Ireland Act has provided that the Republic of Ireland ( Irish: Poblacht na hÉireann) is the official description for the state. The Act was intended primarily to declare that Ireland was a republic rather than a form of constitutional monarchy. It provided the state’s official description but it did not change its name. In 1989 the Irish Supreme Court rejected an extradition warrant that used the name Republic of Ireland. In the words of Mr. Justice Walsh, "If the courts of other countries seeking the assistance of this country are unwilling to give this State its constitutionally correct and internationally recognised name, then in my view, the warrants should be returned to such countries until they have been rectified." [3]
Any clearer that its not its name?
People being mislead is obviously a bad thing. What is good about people being mislead about a countrys name? Anyway its just a footnote, its hardly a controversial edit in the first place. CroatiaShoes 21:00, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
That is a completely different kettle of fish. Can you just think about the single foot note on this page? Do you not accept it? CroatiaShoes 21:13, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Peejay there is no need for this "footnote". Lord Cornwallis ( talk) 22:51, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
- :::Thanks for the link to Ignore all rules. As you're continuing to stonewall I may be forced to give up on your opinion. CroatiaShoes 23:12, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
the nation represented by the Republic of Ireland national football team is the Republic of Ireland.
No ROI is not a country, Ireland is.
However, the modern country of Ireland is commonly known as the Republic of Ireland in many English-speaking countries No its not, its sometimes incorrectly used in the UK.
I can think of no mainstream sport where the country known as Ireland is not referred to as the Republic of Ireland
Another completely made up statement. Another wrong one. All the statements who is not knowledgeable on the subject who doesn't hear the points that are being made. The whole point is about that it misleadingly suggests that ROI is a name, not what ROI refers to. CroatiaShoes 23:31, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
I AM NOT SAYING THAT REPUBLIC OF IRELAND SHOULD NOT BE USED! I AM PUTTING IN A FOOTNOTE THAT SAYS THE REPUBLIC OF IRELAND IS NOT THE NAME OF THE COUNTRY INVOLVED! THAT IS ALL! HAVE I GOT THROUGH TO YOU? YOU ARE ARGUING SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. CroatiaShoes 23:41, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
I wouldn't bother arguing too much. User is a sock, and this is simply WP:Point. In another guise they tried and failed to have the Republic of Ireland moved to Ireland, and now routinely create new identies and try to change as many articles as possible, in defiance of logic or consensus. 23:44, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
The page is now protected for 3 days days. During this time, please try and find common ground and arrive to a version that all can live with. If you cannot, this is a good time to pursue dispute resolution such as third opinions or requests for comments. If you are ready to resume editing or to contest the protection, place a request at WP:RFPP. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 01:05, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
Various socks, etc. are edit-warring on this article. Please restore references to Republic of Ireland. In the context of this article, accuracy and clarity are important, given that the subject covers Ireland as a whole and both Irish international teams. It is in the interests of the reader that he or she is not confused by references to "Ireland" which, in fact, refer to the Republic. Mooretwin ( talk) 15:24, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
I've now made the change. Lord Cornwallis ( talk) 13:16, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Baring in mind that this competition does not involve all of the teams form the British Isles, which of these statements is the clearest:
The first statement heavily implies that all the national football teams of the British Isles will take part in the competition; the second phrase, however, makes it clear that not all of them will. Therefore, the second statement is clearly the best to include in the article. I cannot understand how anyone would think differently, but two editors have reverted this tiny change.
This is a completely uncontroversial change, as it adds two words to make a sentence clearer. Therefore, I do not see the relevance of Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle, which I have been directed to by a reverter - there is no bold change. I am, however, quite happy to justify my two words on the talk page, as shown above. - Green Tentacle ( talk) 17:29, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Concerning the title 4 Associations rather than Four Associations a quick google search shows that Four Associations is used by the FAW [1] the BBC [2] while 4 Associations is used by the FAI [3] and the SFA [4]. It makes me wonder if we current have it at the right name though there doesn't seem to be a consensus even amongst those taking part exactly how it should be written. Is there any evidence that "4 associations" is the common name? It's not a hugely urgent issue, but I was just wondering. Lord C ( talk) 15:48, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
An anonymous editor is edit-warring in an attempt to replace the term "Republic of Ireland" with "Ireland". There are two reasons, however, that the latter term is appropriate:
In the interests of clarity and to avoid confusion and ambiguity, therefore, please leave the settled text alone. Mooretwin ( talk) 16:39, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Didn't mean to erase your post. The conflict confused me. You've not answered my point either, which I made first. You explain your reasons then I'll explain mine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.202.173.226 ( talk) 17:46, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
An anonymous editor is edit-warring in an attempt to replace the term "Republic of Ireland" with "Ireland". There are two reasons, however, that the latter term is appropriate:
In the interests of clarity and to avoid confusion and ambiguity, therefore, please leave the settled text alone. Mooretwin ( talk) 16:39, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
"Irish", "Northern Irish", "Scottish" and "Welsh" national teams is plain inaccurate. There are several players who could only be tenuously described as having each of those nationalities. It is more accurate to use the full names and to then be consistent to avoid the lame Ireland naming problems. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 00:35, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
194., I hope you agree with us that Wikipedia articles need to be consistent with each other. If we call a country X, we should call it X in all the cases. Otherwise we're only gonna create confusion. This is not the first time the name of Ireland has come up, and it probably won't be the last time. After long discussions, we as a community have decided to use the name Ireland for the island and the name Republic of Ireland for the country. It's fine to disagree with that, but we had to choose one way or the other, and we were gonna disappoint people no matter what. The football assocation represents the independent country, and not the entire island. That means that it represents the country we call Republic of Ireland, and that's why their article is located at Republic of Ireland national football team. Aecis·(away) talk 01:02, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
This info is relevant and worth a mention but to say that the 4AT is "effectively a successor" to it is false and misleading. I'm removing it. I'll replace it with the facts, i.e. that there was a Home Nations Championship and that it is an entirely different competition. Fionnsci ( talk) 11:48, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Is there a source showing that these names for the tournament are in use in those languages, or is it simply a case of having translated "Nations Cup" into Scots or the relevant Celtic language. If it is the latter, is that not OR? Kevin McE ( talk) 06:01, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
I have removed this content because I don't believe it is any way relevant to the new tournament. It may have been suggested by the Breton association but there is nothing to suggest that it was a serious proposal, given that Brittany is not a full international team. The genesis of the current tournament is the proposal by Lawrie Sanchez in 2006 and the background is the traditional British Home Championship. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 13:54, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Fixed I contributed a small update with regard to the tense of the article (initial match, Wales vs Republic of Ireland, has now taken place), however I forgot to close the reference tag. For some reason the article won't save now when I try to edit it. Can someone else maybe fix this for me? I also noticed there doesn't seem to be a template for the Northern Irish national side. Maybe someone could write one for the article too, as it looks a bit strange having "X national football team" for the other teams but "Association Football in" for Northern Ireland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.131.130.116 ( talk) 04:05, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Does anyone know what the exact name of this tournament will be? So far I've seen "4 Associations Tournament", "4 Association Tournament", "Four Associations Tournament", "Four Association Tournament" and "4 Associations Cup"! Someone set us straight! – Pee Jay 20:18, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Could you explain exactly what is wrong with the adding of a reference? national team of the Republic of Ireland.. is misleading as it suggests that ROI is the name of the nation/country involved. That is not the case so the adding of a note/reference for anyone mislead, which appears down the bottom is a good edit. Can you explain your 2 reverts? CroatiaShoes ( talk) 14:09, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
Taken from ROI talk page:
These lists should indicate to what extent the term "Republic of" is a WP:common name outside these islands.
From Republic of Ireland: Article 4 of the Irish constitution, which was adopted in 1937, provides that “the name of the state is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland”. [1] For all official purposes including in international treaties and in other legal documents, where the language of the documents is English, the Irish government uses the name Ireland. The same is true in respect of the name Éire for documents written in Irish. Institutions of the European Union follow the same practice. Since Irish became an official EU language on 1 January 2007, at EU meetings name plates for the state read as Éire - Ireland, just as the two official names are used on Irish passports. [2]
Since 1949 the Republic of Ireland Act has provided that the Republic of Ireland ( Irish: Poblacht na hÉireann) is the official description for the state. The Act was intended primarily to declare that Ireland was a republic rather than a form of constitutional monarchy. It provided the state’s official description but it did not change its name. In 1989 the Irish Supreme Court rejected an extradition warrant that used the name Republic of Ireland. In the words of Mr. Justice Walsh, "If the courts of other countries seeking the assistance of this country are unwilling to give this State its constitutionally correct and internationally recognised name, then in my view, the warrants should be returned to such countries until they have been rectified." [3]
Any clearer that its not its name?
People being mislead is obviously a bad thing. What is good about people being mislead about a countrys name? Anyway its just a footnote, its hardly a controversial edit in the first place. CroatiaShoes 21:00, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
That is a completely different kettle of fish. Can you just think about the single foot note on this page? Do you not accept it? CroatiaShoes 21:13, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Peejay there is no need for this "footnote". Lord Cornwallis ( talk) 22:51, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
- :::Thanks for the link to Ignore all rules. As you're continuing to stonewall I may be forced to give up on your opinion. CroatiaShoes 23:12, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
the nation represented by the Republic of Ireland national football team is the Republic of Ireland.
No ROI is not a country, Ireland is.
However, the modern country of Ireland is commonly known as the Republic of Ireland in many English-speaking countries No its not, its sometimes incorrectly used in the UK.
I can think of no mainstream sport where the country known as Ireland is not referred to as the Republic of Ireland
Another completely made up statement. Another wrong one. All the statements who is not knowledgeable on the subject who doesn't hear the points that are being made. The whole point is about that it misleadingly suggests that ROI is a name, not what ROI refers to. CroatiaShoes 23:31, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
I AM NOT SAYING THAT REPUBLIC OF IRELAND SHOULD NOT BE USED! I AM PUTTING IN A FOOTNOTE THAT SAYS THE REPUBLIC OF IRELAND IS NOT THE NAME OF THE COUNTRY INVOLVED! THAT IS ALL! HAVE I GOT THROUGH TO YOU? YOU ARE ARGUING SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. CroatiaShoes 23:41, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
I wouldn't bother arguing too much. User is a sock, and this is simply WP:Point. In another guise they tried and failed to have the Republic of Ireland moved to Ireland, and now routinely create new identies and try to change as many articles as possible, in defiance of logic or consensus. 23:44, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
The page is now protected for 3 days days. During this time, please try and find common ground and arrive to a version that all can live with. If you cannot, this is a good time to pursue dispute resolution such as third opinions or requests for comments. If you are ready to resume editing or to contest the protection, place a request at WP:RFPP. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 01:05, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
Various socks, etc. are edit-warring on this article. Please restore references to Republic of Ireland. In the context of this article, accuracy and clarity are important, given that the subject covers Ireland as a whole and both Irish international teams. It is in the interests of the reader that he or she is not confused by references to "Ireland" which, in fact, refer to the Republic. Mooretwin ( talk) 15:24, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
I've now made the change. Lord Cornwallis ( talk) 13:16, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Baring in mind that this competition does not involve all of the teams form the British Isles, which of these statements is the clearest:
The first statement heavily implies that all the national football teams of the British Isles will take part in the competition; the second phrase, however, makes it clear that not all of them will. Therefore, the second statement is clearly the best to include in the article. I cannot understand how anyone would think differently, but two editors have reverted this tiny change.
This is a completely uncontroversial change, as it adds two words to make a sentence clearer. Therefore, I do not see the relevance of Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle, which I have been directed to by a reverter - there is no bold change. I am, however, quite happy to justify my two words on the talk page, as shown above. - Green Tentacle ( talk) 17:29, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Concerning the title 4 Associations rather than Four Associations a quick google search shows that Four Associations is used by the FAW [1] the BBC [2] while 4 Associations is used by the FAI [3] and the SFA [4]. It makes me wonder if we current have it at the right name though there doesn't seem to be a consensus even amongst those taking part exactly how it should be written. Is there any evidence that "4 associations" is the common name? It's not a hugely urgent issue, but I was just wondering. Lord C ( talk) 15:48, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
An anonymous editor is edit-warring in an attempt to replace the term "Republic of Ireland" with "Ireland". There are two reasons, however, that the latter term is appropriate:
In the interests of clarity and to avoid confusion and ambiguity, therefore, please leave the settled text alone. Mooretwin ( talk) 16:39, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Didn't mean to erase your post. The conflict confused me. You've not answered my point either, which I made first. You explain your reasons then I'll explain mine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.202.173.226 ( talk) 17:46, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
An anonymous editor is edit-warring in an attempt to replace the term "Republic of Ireland" with "Ireland". There are two reasons, however, that the latter term is appropriate:
In the interests of clarity and to avoid confusion and ambiguity, therefore, please leave the settled text alone. Mooretwin ( talk) 16:39, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
"Irish", "Northern Irish", "Scottish" and "Welsh" national teams is plain inaccurate. There are several players who could only be tenuously described as having each of those nationalities. It is more accurate to use the full names and to then be consistent to avoid the lame Ireland naming problems. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 00:35, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
194., I hope you agree with us that Wikipedia articles need to be consistent with each other. If we call a country X, we should call it X in all the cases. Otherwise we're only gonna create confusion. This is not the first time the name of Ireland has come up, and it probably won't be the last time. After long discussions, we as a community have decided to use the name Ireland for the island and the name Republic of Ireland for the country. It's fine to disagree with that, but we had to choose one way or the other, and we were gonna disappoint people no matter what. The football assocation represents the independent country, and not the entire island. That means that it represents the country we call Republic of Ireland, and that's why their article is located at Republic of Ireland national football team. Aecis·(away) talk 01:02, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
This info is relevant and worth a mention but to say that the 4AT is "effectively a successor" to it is false and misleading. I'm removing it. I'll replace it with the facts, i.e. that there was a Home Nations Championship and that it is an entirely different competition. Fionnsci ( talk) 11:48, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Is there a source showing that these names for the tournament are in use in those languages, or is it simply a case of having translated "Nations Cup" into Scots or the relevant Celtic language. If it is the latter, is that not OR? Kevin McE ( talk) 06:01, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
I have removed this content because I don't believe it is any way relevant to the new tournament. It may have been suggested by the Breton association but there is nothing to suggest that it was a serious proposal, given that Brittany is not a full international team. The genesis of the current tournament is the proposal by Lawrie Sanchez in 2006 and the background is the traditional British Home Championship. Jmorrison230582 ( talk) 13:54, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Fixed I contributed a small update with regard to the tense of the article (initial match, Wales vs Republic of Ireland, has now taken place), however I forgot to close the reference tag. For some reason the article won't save now when I try to edit it. Can someone else maybe fix this for me? I also noticed there doesn't seem to be a template for the Northern Irish national side. Maybe someone could write one for the article too, as it looks a bit strange having "X national football team" for the other teams but "Association Football in" for Northern Ireland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.131.130.116 ( talk) 04:05, 11 February 2011 (UTC)