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This article should be merged with the article for Third Way (United Kingdom), as they are the same party. Renren8123 ( talk) 15:50, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
Nothing in this article actually supports the assertion that the party is "far right", only that the party's founders are former members of parties that are far-right. The "2014 European election" section is barely about the election at all. Renren8123 ( talk) 16:00, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
There is no evidence that they are far-right,fact of being split,doesn't exactly mean following this kind of ideas. Look at Social Democratic Party which is centre-left,that broke from left-wing Labour . I don't think that it cannot be a case in this party,and there are no really sources to back up this ridicolous claim ,not even Huffington Post and anti-hate group. There is a cases of centre-right supporting far-right (literally Germany in 1933) so its support for Third Way network is unrelated to ideology. Also ideology shouldn't be really made on basis of that guy that share membership in this party with BNP,but more valuable sources. Until this is checked i decided to remove reference to supposed far-rightism of party,also it is much obvious that they are nationalist,and civic nationalist,they didn't seem to subscribe to racial version of nationalism,there is no real source on this issue.
General
Brent Cheetham
Doris Jones
Upgar Singh
Jagdeesh Singh
Yussuf Anwar
Glen Maney
Patrick Harrington
My intent in gathering this list was to find any references to the National Liberal Party, and any references to people who are said to have an association with the party. I excluded anything that was clearly copy produced by the NLP, which obviously includes anything from their website itself. Note that independent editorial content is not in itself a requirement for wikipedia. It is enough that an independent source shows that they really said something.
Also, note that self-published sources can be used as reliable sources about themselves. This includes NLP press releases about themselves and even their own website, which I excluded from the above links. Rhialto ( talk) 09:24, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
I said I found nothing in these links which supports a blanket claim that it is a far-right organisation. So far, everything you have said agrees with me in that regard. Neither of us are likely to find anything denying that it is a far-right organisation for the same reason that we won't find any serious source denying that Churchill was the founder of the Labour party. Reputable sources are not in the habit of routinely denying things that are not true.
I maintain that the best approach is to examine the party's actual activities since its founding, as well as the activities of those people the party has raised to a position of authority within its structure (with a focus on their activities after being given that position). An examination of these factors should be the basis for determining where it stands on the left-right continuum, not your judgement based on the the pre-foundation activities of two members (one of which is no longer a member).
Note that I do not dispute whether Harrington was a member, or even a member who at one time was nominating officer. However, I do think the claim that he was a founder needs a cite that does not loop back to this article for its source.
Regarding that article in Searchlight Magazine, it cites Channel 4 as its source (it is in fact a word for word copy of the C4 article I linked to above), which I have already noted is problematic, as Channel 4 has no citable source and there is good reason to suppose that it used this Wikipedia article as its source for that piece of information. Rhialto ( talk) 14:52, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
I stand corrected on that point; when I first came across the article, there was no such reference. An interim editor must have removed the cite before I first saw this article. Rhialto ( talk) 18:19, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
10:11, 16 January 2020 (UTC)10:11, 16 January 2020 (UTC)~~== "Far Right" designation ==
In my opinion, in order to designate this political party as "Far Right", we need a reliable source that devotes significant coverage to the party's ideology, and concludes that it is a far right party. The fact that some party founders had far right backgrounds before starting this party is insufficient, in my view. To use that fact to characterize the ideology of the party is synthesis and original research, which is not proper. Any description of their ideology must take into account the diversity of their list of candidates. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 02:38, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
"Monarchism" "Elitism" Where are the sources for these? Nothing in their own materials shows much concern for the monarchy, nor is there any obvious sign they want some elite to rule the country. Ditto "anti Russian sentiment" and "anti communism". Based on personal opinion or personal research rather than real evidence it seems. If based on published evidence, then the sources should be referenced. Perhaps "third positionism" would be more apt, as there are sources which refer to them as such. I won't be changing it as there seems to be a petty edit war going on, but I feel it is currently inaccurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.200.37 ( talk) 23:28, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
The NLP isn't what I would call far-right. Not only odes it have minority candidates, but it policies in general don't seem to be indicative of this. It is Civic nationalist, but is in no way "Extreme", it has pledged to uphold the 2010 Equality act. So I don't think it could be called far-right, despite the background's of it's members. True, but there are many labour supporters who were members of Communist groups in their youth, that doesn't make labour Communist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobsmithsmith ( talk • contribs) 09:51, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
Sorry, I am still getting to grips with Wikipedia, and didn't realise that talk opinions had to be verified. I don't disagree that minorities' can't be far-right, as it is a broad term, but from what I have seen from there policies, they seem a kind of civic Nationalist party than far-right. But I am probably wrong, so will leave you to it.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.206.248 ( talk • contribs) 18:54, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
The source is given for describing the NLP as far-right (the Huffington Post article) does not discuss either the policies or ideology of the NLP. It is base on a 'State of Hate' report from the campaigning group Hope Not Hate. Going back to the original I found that this doesn't discuss policy or ideology and only mentions the NLP in passing. How does this provide a basis for such a sweeping assertion about a political party?
Thoughtcrime64 (
talk)
15:08, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
Hi Andy, what I said regarding the Huffington Post article regarding a lack of justification in relation to ideology and policy in describing the NLP as far-right applies also to Channel 4. My point is not that the references don't reveal their sources it is that they don't attempt to justify the description 'far-right'. Are you able to provide any references which state that the NLP should be classified in this way in relation to policy and ideology? We are not talking here about whether the people who originally formed it had 'far-right' backgrounds historically. You are categorizing a political party which includes many other people. Don't you think that you should be fair to all of those in the NLP who don't have far-right backgrounds by considering what the organisation is actually about now? Don't you feel even a little uncomfortable in telling Sikhs, Muslims and others that they are members of a 'far-right' party even though that party has a Sikh leader and advocates policies which are very different from 'far-right' positions? I want to discuss this with you and seek to persuade you that you are being unfair and should question your assumptions more. I think the article discusses the backgrounds of some of the NLP leadership elsewhere but I think your blanket description is, to be kind to you, lacking in detailed understanding. Thoughtcrime64 ( talk) 18:09, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
To characterize any party as "far right" or "far left" on the basis of the distant past of one or two of its members is as valid as describing the British Labour party as "communist" owing to some of their members having being involved with the Communist Party in their youth. I don't think that the NLP's policies seriously stand comparison to those that you would generally consider "far right". Brookton Preston ( talk) 10:11, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
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on reading on them they don't sound like your average far right party.
The economic policy they lay out on their website seems similar to that of distributism or atleast what i've heard of distributism. The idea that private property should be as widely owned as possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MapperWapper ( talk • contribs) 04:52, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
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This article should be merged with the article for Third Way (United Kingdom), as they are the same party. Renren8123 ( talk) 15:50, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
Nothing in this article actually supports the assertion that the party is "far right", only that the party's founders are former members of parties that are far-right. The "2014 European election" section is barely about the election at all. Renren8123 ( talk) 16:00, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
There is no evidence that they are far-right,fact of being split,doesn't exactly mean following this kind of ideas. Look at Social Democratic Party which is centre-left,that broke from left-wing Labour . I don't think that it cannot be a case in this party,and there are no really sources to back up this ridicolous claim ,not even Huffington Post and anti-hate group. There is a cases of centre-right supporting far-right (literally Germany in 1933) so its support for Third Way network is unrelated to ideology. Also ideology shouldn't be really made on basis of that guy that share membership in this party with BNP,but more valuable sources. Until this is checked i decided to remove reference to supposed far-rightism of party,also it is much obvious that they are nationalist,and civic nationalist,they didn't seem to subscribe to racial version of nationalism,there is no real source on this issue.
General
Brent Cheetham
Doris Jones
Upgar Singh
Jagdeesh Singh
Yussuf Anwar
Glen Maney
Patrick Harrington
My intent in gathering this list was to find any references to the National Liberal Party, and any references to people who are said to have an association with the party. I excluded anything that was clearly copy produced by the NLP, which obviously includes anything from their website itself. Note that independent editorial content is not in itself a requirement for wikipedia. It is enough that an independent source shows that they really said something.
Also, note that self-published sources can be used as reliable sources about themselves. This includes NLP press releases about themselves and even their own website, which I excluded from the above links. Rhialto ( talk) 09:24, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
I said I found nothing in these links which supports a blanket claim that it is a far-right organisation. So far, everything you have said agrees with me in that regard. Neither of us are likely to find anything denying that it is a far-right organisation for the same reason that we won't find any serious source denying that Churchill was the founder of the Labour party. Reputable sources are not in the habit of routinely denying things that are not true.
I maintain that the best approach is to examine the party's actual activities since its founding, as well as the activities of those people the party has raised to a position of authority within its structure (with a focus on their activities after being given that position). An examination of these factors should be the basis for determining where it stands on the left-right continuum, not your judgement based on the the pre-foundation activities of two members (one of which is no longer a member).
Note that I do not dispute whether Harrington was a member, or even a member who at one time was nominating officer. However, I do think the claim that he was a founder needs a cite that does not loop back to this article for its source.
Regarding that article in Searchlight Magazine, it cites Channel 4 as its source (it is in fact a word for word copy of the C4 article I linked to above), which I have already noted is problematic, as Channel 4 has no citable source and there is good reason to suppose that it used this Wikipedia article as its source for that piece of information. Rhialto ( talk) 14:52, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
I stand corrected on that point; when I first came across the article, there was no such reference. An interim editor must have removed the cite before I first saw this article. Rhialto ( talk) 18:19, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
10:11, 16 January 2020 (UTC)10:11, 16 January 2020 (UTC)~~== "Far Right" designation ==
In my opinion, in order to designate this political party as "Far Right", we need a reliable source that devotes significant coverage to the party's ideology, and concludes that it is a far right party. The fact that some party founders had far right backgrounds before starting this party is insufficient, in my view. To use that fact to characterize the ideology of the party is synthesis and original research, which is not proper. Any description of their ideology must take into account the diversity of their list of candidates. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 02:38, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
"Monarchism" "Elitism" Where are the sources for these? Nothing in their own materials shows much concern for the monarchy, nor is there any obvious sign they want some elite to rule the country. Ditto "anti Russian sentiment" and "anti communism". Based on personal opinion or personal research rather than real evidence it seems. If based on published evidence, then the sources should be referenced. Perhaps "third positionism" would be more apt, as there are sources which refer to them as such. I won't be changing it as there seems to be a petty edit war going on, but I feel it is currently inaccurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.200.37 ( talk) 23:28, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
The NLP isn't what I would call far-right. Not only odes it have minority candidates, but it policies in general don't seem to be indicative of this. It is Civic nationalist, but is in no way "Extreme", it has pledged to uphold the 2010 Equality act. So I don't think it could be called far-right, despite the background's of it's members. True, but there are many labour supporters who were members of Communist groups in their youth, that doesn't make labour Communist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobsmithsmith ( talk • contribs) 09:51, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
Sorry, I am still getting to grips with Wikipedia, and didn't realise that talk opinions had to be verified. I don't disagree that minorities' can't be far-right, as it is a broad term, but from what I have seen from there policies, they seem a kind of civic Nationalist party than far-right. But I am probably wrong, so will leave you to it.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.206.248 ( talk • contribs) 18:54, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
The source is given for describing the NLP as far-right (the Huffington Post article) does not discuss either the policies or ideology of the NLP. It is base on a 'State of Hate' report from the campaigning group Hope Not Hate. Going back to the original I found that this doesn't discuss policy or ideology and only mentions the NLP in passing. How does this provide a basis for such a sweeping assertion about a political party?
Thoughtcrime64 (
talk)
15:08, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
Hi Andy, what I said regarding the Huffington Post article regarding a lack of justification in relation to ideology and policy in describing the NLP as far-right applies also to Channel 4. My point is not that the references don't reveal their sources it is that they don't attempt to justify the description 'far-right'. Are you able to provide any references which state that the NLP should be classified in this way in relation to policy and ideology? We are not talking here about whether the people who originally formed it had 'far-right' backgrounds historically. You are categorizing a political party which includes many other people. Don't you think that you should be fair to all of those in the NLP who don't have far-right backgrounds by considering what the organisation is actually about now? Don't you feel even a little uncomfortable in telling Sikhs, Muslims and others that they are members of a 'far-right' party even though that party has a Sikh leader and advocates policies which are very different from 'far-right' positions? I want to discuss this with you and seek to persuade you that you are being unfair and should question your assumptions more. I think the article discusses the backgrounds of some of the NLP leadership elsewhere but I think your blanket description is, to be kind to you, lacking in detailed understanding. Thoughtcrime64 ( talk) 18:09, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
To characterize any party as "far right" or "far left" on the basis of the distant past of one or two of its members is as valid as describing the British Labour party as "communist" owing to some of their members having being involved with the Communist Party in their youth. I don't think that the NLP's policies seriously stand comparison to those that you would generally consider "far right". Brookton Preston ( talk) 10:11, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
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on reading on them they don't sound like your average far right party.
The economic policy they lay out on their website seems similar to that of distributism or atleast what i've heard of distributism. The idea that private property should be as widely owned as possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MapperWapper ( talk • contribs) 04:52, 6 December 2021 (UTC)