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This document is trying to be hijacked by two opposing views. I think it is better to have a session about what is NDF by the "NDF people" and What critics says about by its "critics". The information in WIKI should be neutral to the readers for its own neutrality. It is not a place for war. The issue on Marad is controversial. It is true that Five brothors have brutally killed in Marad-2, but it should be read with that in Marad-1, on which the opposite also lost their life. If something happens (Prays not to happen) in future then we shouldn't treat it as a seperate one. We should keep all in a sequense and treat it together to bring the culprits to account and bring the society to harmony before the Marad-1. Let the views talk each other and indian democracy is powerful enough to give the opposing views have its own importance. Let wiki be neutral.
by anonymous
I've rewritten the article today, keeping closely to what has been published by
reliable sources and focusing it on the National Democratic Front. There is also a redirect here from National Development Front at the moment, but that is not substantiated by the sources I've seen. --
Mereda
15:58, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Copied from User:Mereda talk page -
Its an unreliable partisan org and their page reads like SIMI propaganda. Baka man 00:31, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
There is no organisation named National Democratic Front in Kerala. i think the user had given partisan data and is not relevent. No government or any enquiry commmison reported NDF worked behind Marrad massacre. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sm ashiq ( talk • contribs)
If you read the Malayalam text on Image:Kerala2006_(18).JPG, the name of the organization is actually National Development Front. -- Soman 15:45, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
There is no organisation named National Democratic Front in Kerala. It is National Development Front. Please move to the later.
-- Soman 18:24, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
-- Sundaram7 06:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
I have seen two parties making arguments and counter arguments on putting artcles on NDF. I am not going to argue too much on what is ndf and what is not. But it is not fair to put only what they are not or what they are accused for.
As there were a lot of discussion on Murders and killings before, I am not getting into the topic. CPM and RSS everyday fights in kannur and blood is spilled all over kerala due to political killings and revenges. Sometimes these parties tries to accuse other smaller organisations for these nonsense. They use media and power to accuse the parties like NDF to escape from the responsibilites.
When you read NDF's publications and watch its activities closely, you will understand one thing: it is against the social evils and it stand srongly like killing of innocents especially by buerocrats and fascists.
Living in kerala, I have seen ISS and NDF. They are different. NDF is not a violant organisation ISS and it is not a organisation to fight RSS. As they claims their aim is the empowerment of musim mass and other backward people. We can say they are communal, but they are not a terrorist and extremist organisaiton. Ganeshco 13:23, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Note that Vinod Kumar's article doesn't mention the causes behind the banning of ISS. -- Soman 14:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Editors of this article: please don't do unprofessional disputes flipping the pages with each other. Please follow wikipedia's policies to change the pages. If you have arguments and counter arguments, please discuss it first and then modify. Please dont put immotional statements and arguments in the text. Please feel positive and try to resolve this dispute.-- Sundaram7 06:54, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
as far as I can see, a connection between the NDF and this "massacre" is also a matter of "allegation". We can certainly say the BJP thinks they are involved, and they may be involved for all I know, but we won't be able to just take BJP's word for it, we'd need a court decision at the very least. dab (𒁳) 08:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I am a new user of wiki. I am a person from kerala now based in bangalore. As per my knowladge and as per the public opinion NDF is an organization that is patriotic and that strives for the devolopment of our coutry. Whatever allegations put here are just the other side of the media and the fascist criminals just because a majority of people behind the organization are muslims. Please try to be neutral and please save wiki from the rise of islamophobia.
This article should be corrected.
I suggest that http://www.ndfindia.com/ which is their official site should be put in External links. And that is a must!!
Please go through the site and verify the facts, especially in the news section. The kind of activities the organization is involved shows their true nature. Those facts can be verified.
It is shame full that editors in wiki are also trapped by the fascists criminals. -- wrongNot Feb20 2007
Article was being modified in the right direction by
User:Dbachmann and now the user
Baka
man is creating trouble.
Please discuss the issue which you are having and lets resolve it before updating.
The user will have to explain why he deleted few facts which were laid by along with references and added new informations which are just an accusation by the largest communal parties.
why did this user remove the below information added by User:Dbachmann
"A killing of 8 Hindus in Bepur known as the "Marad massacre". NDF has condemned the incident and rejects all allegations of involvement, [1] [2]. and welcomed the CBI inquiry which did not investigate NDF involvement [3] [4]. "
I can see that this user
Baka
man have active roles in the articles on
Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and
VHP, groups that is trying to eliminate mulims from india and make india a hindu nation. (See the banner on the site RSS.org). Vast majority of Hindus as well as the political parties are strongly against the activities of these groups.
--
wrongNot Feb22 2007
Wrong not 06:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
look, Bakaman is partisan in this, and so are you. You have to both recognize this and sit down to carve out a neutral presentation of all views. And do go easy on the red font please. dab (𒁳) 10:24, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
References
Those who wish to criticize the organization may do in the criticism section..
59.160.207.14 07:28, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
most of the neutral contributions by User:Dbachmann were removed by User:Bakasuprman without any discussion here. Since the changes made by User:Bakasuprman had new informations too, i didn't revert the whole thing back to User:Dbachmann version, instead added the removed content back once again in the appropriate places Pens withdrawn 12:51, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Bakasuprman, please try to undertand and accept that NDF is not an islamist group. ---
Pens withdrawn
07:47, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
the alteration done by User:Lionheart5 on 14:36, 26 February 2007 on this article by just mentioning in the comment as rv POv pushing, is not acceptable. How can anyone change the entire article like that in one stretch without any discussion. --Pens withdrawn 06:26, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
I beleive Mr.Backmen from one of Fanatic organisation in India User User:Lionheart5 added the following text under criticism section.
"The Central Bureau of Investigation report found that "activists of IUML and NDF, a Muslim outfit, were actively involved in the massacre"
He was trying to twist the fact. As per the reference he has put, it is stated that
Thomas P Joseph Commission report, tabled in the assembly , found that "activists of IUML and NDF, a Muslim outfit, were actively involved in the massacre" of nine persons, including eight Hindus, at Marad beach in Kozhikode on May 2, 2003. And they have asked for a CBI enquiry. (reference - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2032620.cms ) Both IUML and NDF has welcomed CBI enquiry.
Whereas "The Hindu" states that
The Commission, in its findings, described how a minor incident on the Marad beach during the New Year celebrations on December 31, 2001 had turned into a riot on January 4, 2002 "due to the intervention of the CPI(M), Indian Union Muslim League (IUML) and BJP/RSS activists. This was the first of the riots and it led to the death of five persons belonging to two communities. (reference - http://www.hindu.com/2006/09/28/stories/2006092804310700.htm)
User:Lionheart5 is a new user and he is here to create trouble... He has also removed all the major sections created by administrator User:Dbachmann ---- Pens withdrawn 12:45, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
As per User:Freedom skies "Congress launched a campaign against terrorism in Malappuram district in Kerala, labeling NDF as an organization that promotes Islamic terrorism" [10]
Congress "We cannot close our eyes on extremist elements and activities." (edit summery comment by User:Freedom skies) [11]
where is islamic terrorism in that reference?? Did anywhere in the reference is it mentioned Islamic terrorism??? its therefore POV. Or else give appropriate reference.
User:Freedom skies is trying to twist the fact. The sentence he framed in the article means like congress launched the campaign to check islamic terrorism by NDF. whereas the reference he gave clearly says "The Congress on Tuesday launched a campaign against terrorism in Malappuram district, simultaneously taking on parties and organisations such as the Indian Union Muslim League (IUML), the Communist Party of India (Marxist), the National Development Front (NDF), the People's Democratic Party (PDP) and the Jama'at-e-Islami and its subsidiary Solidarity Youth Movement". CPI M involved in Islamic terrorism?? -- Fear the Fire 11:05, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
So noted. Accurate edit summaries would have helped. Freedom skies| talk 14:56, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
There are few relavant points in this section, which we need to review and expand further. But the real fact is missing. For example in the article "between hope and fear" in hinduonline, there is no mentioning about the 2002 massacre. But there is a quoting in the article which ways In Marad, RSS activists who are guilty of the crimes committed during the 2002 incident are roaming around freely [14]. Now it is confusing. I have removed some POVs as cited by Baka, Soman and Pens Withdrawn. They are dicussed in the above sections. We need to continue the positive discussion to clean up this article.---- Sundaram7 14:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Please dont bring it back again: The statement from Pinarai Vijayan is not a source for putting information in wikipedia. It is just an accusation but not proved. If you start putting the accusation, wikipedia is not the place for it. The book "Will I Be Killed?" doesnt talk about the NDF. It is talking about terrorism and its linkage. But NDF stands for human rights, to protect people from terrorism from goverment and communal groups. For some editors, they are trying to divert the attention putting unecessary arguments like Terrorism. Let us talk positively and contribute to wiki in positive way, not in a destructive way. --- Sundaram7 07:26, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
This article has been a subject of revert warring since a long time. Please discuss here instead of blindly reverting. I am also concerned that people are engaging in sockpuppetry in order to evade 3RR. I am investigating the matter. - Aksi_great ( talk) 08:25, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
There is a deliberate attempt recently to damage the article and to mix drop of wrong informaiton here and there in the article. Please note that this article has gone through different review by the administrators and differnt peole with differnt POVs. I have put back the nutral version of the article which was reviewed by our admininistrators like User:Dbachmann and User:Aksi_great -- Sundaram7 15:58, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Think about CIA's , British agencies and the indepentend media's view (7/7 or 9/11) got countered by O.B.L 's and Taliban's view —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.145.142.36 ( talk) 09:16, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
1. Why you call it as militant Islamist organization ? What is your reference fot it?
Answer>>I used the description "Right wing Islamic organization " only check the wiki edits. Extensive mainstream media reports are there to prove. Your version is nothing but a replica of NDF portal, can you provide a non-partisan mentioning it as not an Islamic organization
2. What is your evidence for NDF allegedly encourages Pakistan-backed ISI related activities in Kerala.?
Answer>>it was reported by a governmental agency "The kerala State Police" the source http://www.hindu.com/2005/05/14/stories/2005051402780700.htm . A report presented by an IPS ranked Officer under his/ her capacity as the Commissionar of Police Kozhikode district . The only placed used this was under alleged foreign connection and no where else. Which is the acceptable resource for wikipedia ? governmental agency source or the ones sited from the mouth piece of NDF or Jama et Islami or other Partisan Orgainizations siting that state establishment is colluding with its opponents . we can wait for a nuetral source to come out with an answer on which is an [[WP:NPOV]
3. How you can say It also stands accused of being a propaganda front for numerous Islamic terrorist groups, and for orchestrating the 2002 Marad massacre (see Criticism below) ?? In 2002, among the arrested were workers of Hindutva workers of ARAYASAMAJAM, RSS. Are they Islamist parties? So there is no logic or reference to prove your point.
Answer>>I added it is a propaganda front under 2003 Marad massacre not 2002, this too was substantiated citing reports in mainstream media originated from Police and Intelligence agencies,among the arrested were only workers of Hindutva workers of ARAYASAMAJAM, RSS . A item under criticism refered as Modus Operandi published in frontline courting a governement source also worth noting. Here also [[WP:NPOV] needs to be judged by a third party as one of the particies does'nt see governement source as nuetral.
4. You changed in sevaral places from the fact as 'claiming' of NDF. Why you don't want to agree on the facts?
Answer>>I havenotdone that. which are Facts and claims depends on the perspective of contributers also. The NPOV here are different for the 2 sides , for one side 'Fact' is mainstream media reports based on Governamental agencies and for the other 'Facts' exactly the claim made the NDF and allied organizations through their mouthpiece. How there will be a mutual consensus on this in such a scenario?
5. You are calling Mukuntan C Menon as radical Islamist !!. Why you want to call him this way...? he is not even a Muslim!!
Answer>>This got removed already. Article is seen opiniating him as a "Great human rights Activist". Him being a non-muslim does,nt bar him from associating with muslim group. Is Dr Najma Heptullah, Muqthar Abbas Naqwi associated with Sangh Pariwar Hindus? Mukuntan C Menon's is associated with Thejas daily the mouthpiece of NDF , he is referred in article as a Journalist only.fundamentalist groups often quotes articles from Ultra Left wing due to their congruence in stand on various issues such US imperialism,Israel,Hindutva forces, with a transactional association with a person will there be diference in stand of an organization again wait for a nuetral source to come out on which is an [[WP:NPOV]
6. Why you want to link it to ISI and Pakistan? Did any government agency prove this? It is just some propaganda of fascist and unpopular parties in india. All parties have their opposition. This party is not an exception.
Answer>>Yes it was reported by a government agency "The kerala State Police" the source http://www.hindu.com/2005/05/14/stories/2005051402780700.htm .I do entered article linking with ISI and Pakistan with O.Rs given to question 2
7 It is a new finding from your group that NDF is started by Abdulnassar Madani!! .It looks like LogicaCMG.com / 59.145.142.36, is pledged to defeat this article!.
Answer>>This was removed already You were making the article a propaganda centre for NDF likes it portal.All the claims made by the organization are refered as 'Facts' Does mentioning of activities of this organization siting WP:OR tantamount to defeating this article.Here the question is which is an WP:NPOV
8 Where in the internview [1] the guy find that the organisation is a right wing?
Answer>> Read the 2 articles properly . does it sound for you it is like any other organization as you have stated .This because the WP:NPOV for you are articles from either NDF or its allied Organization
9 What is your reference to prove that NDF is a militant group?
Answer>> "Right wing Islamic organisation " is used there . WP:OR as per this 'point of view ' are provided . The contrarian view differs from this , so no consensus
10 What you mean by Forced Implementation Of Sharia ?? There is nothing of that information explained in the reference:[2]. This is a real POV!
Answer>> "Implementation of religious code " was used .. WP:OR as per this 'point of view ' are provided regarding this After going through the if you didn’t find the entries regarding Implementation of religious code . I'am surprised.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Liberal Democrat ( talk • contribs) 11:24, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
The VandaL sundaram7 is removing sourced articles article under the pretext that any thing stated outside the manifesto of NDF are not NPOVs . He is seen loosely quoting wiki rules whenever necessary, under many occasions WP:Verifiability is not followed in quoting O.Rs, the WP:Verifiability section "Sources in languages other than English" was never followed from the beggining. Overall idea seems to make the article a propaganda pag of this organization
Removed the following vandals:
* To defend the human rights atrocities from Police, Military, Government and non governmental agencies.
[1]
The Thomas P Joseph Commission report found that "activists of NDF, a Muslim outfit, were actively involved in the massacre"Cite error: A
<ref>
tag is missing the closing </ref>
(see the
help page).
In addition, the State secretary of the
Communist Party of India (Marxist) in Kerala,
Pinarayi Vijayan, has said that NDF was involved in the
Marad massacre and referred to them as a "terrorist outfit" that executed a "planned mass murder".
[2]
::What about the stated manifesto's of NDF which are opininiated as facts , can you prove through a non - partisan source that they are NPOV
Ms Neera Rawat IPS, Senior Superintendent of Police, Bareilly, Uttar Pradesh, deposed before the Marad Judicial Inquiry Commission, Justice Thomas P. Joseph (reference
Marad_massacre) that the Kozhikode Special Branch during her tenure as
Kozhikode City Police Commissioner from March 22, 1997 to May 16 1999. She also added before the Inquiry Commission that the police had prepared confidential and authentic reports that
ISI and
Iran were the fund sponsors of the NDF.
[3].
The NDF has been heavily criticized for recruiting the largely moderate and progressive
Kerala
Muslims into extremist ideologies.
citation needed The organization, while superficially a "Human Rights Group", has attracted numerous
Islamic Fundamentalists to their ranks, and, as such, stand compared to several more well-known militant
Islamist groups such as
Lashkar-e-Toiba,
Hizbul Mujahideen and others
[4].
::Come to point with respect to wikipedia rules for entry, that how it is getting negated here . only wiki rules are the set of standards to be followed in editing the article
while following WP:balancing, the whole article has become a source as mentioned in WP:OR
Haifa University political scientist
David Bukay lists the NDF as a "fundamentalist and subversive group"
[5]
::Come to wikipedia rules , that how it is getting negated here . only wiki rules are the set of standards to be followed in editing the article
while following WP:balancing, the whole article has become a source as mentioned in WP:OR.If David Bukay (haifa uni)is fascist , that is the opinion shared by them about NDF and its supporters, so leave it to third party dispute as per WP:DR
The NDF is alleged to involved in pushing the
Islamic
Sharia code in cosmopolitan Muslim society , which itin India, an act viewed by moderate Muslims and secularists as "
Talibanization".A typical case reported by media is killing Fakir Uppappa or Siddhan, killed in November for indulging in "un-Islamic spiritualism".
[6]
::This got reported from IndianExpress daily state here how the wiki rules are negated here
A
muslim was murdered in Punalur for his binding with Leftist oganization [DYFI].The media reports involving the killing of CPI(M)’s Ashraf in Punalur in
Kollam district points towards this.
[7]
::This got reported from IndianExpress daily please state here how this happened to be a POV
Allegation of targeting the liberals in the community: those who do not strictly follow
Islamic laws like abstaining from liquor, fasting during
Ramadan and
wearing the makhna or the
purdah.
[8]
:: Is milligazette accepted as reliable source
Islamism
"Mediapersons have been misled by Intelligence authorities to believe that the NDF was a militant organisation. They had said the same thing about Congress during the freedom struggle."
::The user is requested to substantitiate ,how the above quoted entry stated in the article happens to be WP:NPOV with repect to the WP:Verifiability policy
And over all what is your concept regarding WP:NPOV
"activists of IUML and NDF, a Muslim outfit, were actively involved in the massacre" It is stated in the article so referring to Thomas P. Joseph commission report. Afer reading the complete report it is found that there is no such reference in Joseph P Commission Report. The complete report is here in PDF format: [28]. This really helped me to point out that the writer is trying to push his POV into the article.
Kottakkal Police station attack: Only Sangh Parivar and Marxist party say so. All the mainstream media in Kerala has evaluated this as attack from police and the photos of damaged cars and vehicles of the N D F activists were shown in next day's news papers. Refer to same day's news papers.
Pakistan MP's visit row:
Only Sangh Parivar found something wrong in this visit. Infact it was a accusation only. Even if it is a fact, what is wrong in it? Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal is a political party and they are not part of ISI or banned Pakistani extremist movements. If one of Indian minister visit pakistan and their people, do a pakistani say that it is against Pakistani Nationalism. It is in fact will be evaluated to enrich the relations between two neighboring countries.
Additional Views: This portion is a pure vandal. The reference is from a sangh parivar ideologist.
Islamic Sevak Sangh and SIMI links:
This is also an accusation. The great evidence is that these organizations have their own existence. No SIMI workers are there in NDF. But there are NDF workers who were previously working for different movements like SIMI, PDP, IUML, DYFI; and later on they found that they should work for Indian minority movement like NDF and leave their terrorist and rightwing lines.
You can see similar situations in other organizations also. For example, K T jaleel and Abdussamad Samadani were previously working for SIMI and they later disagreed with the extremist thoughts and jointed in mainstream movements of IUML.
Pakistan-backed ISI related activities in Kerala:
There are many organizations, political parties in Kerala. But only sangh parivar declares that N D F has ISI links [29]. They are trying to push these views using mainstream media. example is [30]. But they are not able to bring single evidence towards it. Once they reported an incident in Baypore that an ISI ship in Baypore and police has caught the accused. But when they suspects were in quested, it found that they were from Indian Army!!.
most of the points mentioned bellow appears as Original Research done by Sundaram7 quite interesting to see your enthusiasm !!
--- Sundaram7 12:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Sundaram7 & is warned to refrain from personal attacks least it will invite Intervention
References
Kerala is witnessing more and more recruits into this extremist Islamic ideology". When the names are the alarming "Lashkar-e-Toiba" and "Hizbul Mujahiddeen" in the "uneducated North", it is very humorously garbed as "National Development Front" in the south"
Evidence of these processes [preparation for large-scale acts of terror] is mounting throughout India, and is reflected in the number of fundamentalist and subversive groups that exist, and the geographical spread of their activities. The most prominent of these include the Jamaat-e-Islami Hind, the All India Milli Council, All India Jihad Committee, The People's Democratic Party, Muslim United Front, Tamil Nadu Muslim Munnetra Kazagham, National Development Front, Students Islamic Movement of India, among others
The User Sundaram 7 is requested to come with mainstream and governmental sources to prove his point like the other editors. Wiki is about verifiability, on what Jurisdiction/powers you can comment on various agencies? ,this is not a blog or space alloted for NDF. It seems you are annoyed about criticism from the very beggining as seen in this page. Come with solid proofs not with your own hypothesis as seen stated through out these page.You can claim the whole media & ruling establishments are biased but that cant reflect in Wiki as there are principles laid out for entries here .-- 212.8.174.135 13:54, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
user:Thegoldenageoftheflyingspaghettimonster is trying to help user:liberal Democrat removing my edits even in discussions. see [33]. This proves that they are related and work for the banned user user:Hkelkar.
Why you guys fear to discuss the facts. This document is totally learned towards Sangh Parivar views. Not balanced at all. !! -- Sundaram7 11:48, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Sundaram,Everyone has the same access to Wikipedia as you have ,it is totaly Uncivil to try to manufacture opinion against another as you are doing.Edits show you were repeating the same for quite sometime. So it is high time you got warned of a block from this article.-- 59.93.32.65 08:46, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
As reports denote Internet has become the largest playgound for Jihadi activists,in this article also the same overtone are seen under the guise of Sundaram7/198.36.32.21 [34]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sahyadhri ( talk • contribs) 07:38, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
"activists of IUML and NDF, a Muslim outfit, were actively involved in the massacre" It is stated in the article so referring to Thomas P. Joseph commission report. Afer reading the complete report it is found that there is no such reference in Joseph P Commission Report. The complete report is here in PDF format: [35]. This really helped me to point out that the writer is trying to push his POV into the article.
Kottakkal Police station attack: Only Sangh Parivar and Marxist party say so. All the mainstream media in Kerala has evaluated this as attack from police and the photos of damaged cars and vehicles of the N D F activists were shown in next day's news papers. Refer to same day's news papers.
Pakistan MP's visit row:
Only Sangh Parivar found something wrong in this visit. Infact it was a accusation only. Even if it is a fact, what is wrong in it? Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal is a political party and they are not part of ISI or banned Pakistani extremist movements. If one of Indian minister visit pakistan and their people, do a pakistani say that it is against Pakistani Nationalism. It is in fact will be evaluated to enrich the relations between two neighboring countries.
Additional Views: This portion is a pure vandal. The reference is from a sangh parivar ideologist.
Islamic Sevak Sangh and SIMI links:
This is also an accusation. The great evidence is that these organizations have their own existence. No SIMI workers are there in NDF. But there are NDF workers who were previously working for different movements like SIMI, PDP, IUML, DYFI; and later on they found that they should work for Indian minority movement like NDF and leave their terrorist and rightwing lines.
You can see similar situations in other organizations also. For example, K T jaleel and Abdussamad Samadani were previously working for SIMI and they later disagreed with the extremist thoughts and jointed in mainstream movements of IUML.
Pakistan-backed ISI related activities in Kerala:
There are many organizations, political parties in Kerala. But only sangh parivar declares that N D F has ISI links [36]. They are trying to push these views using mainstream media. example is [37]. But they are not able to bring single evidence towards it. Once they reported an incident in Baypore that an ISI ship in Baypore and police has caught the accused. But when they suspects were in quested, it found that they were from Indian Army!!.
Islamic and Islamist:
“ | I was very happy, excited, on September 11th. Someone called me to switch on BBC and I saw the aircraft crashing into the World Trade Center and I saw it crumbling down -- down like the United States and I was laughing… Osama Bin Laden gave Americans back what they had done to the world. It was a wonderful thing! What else can a helpless people do? There should be more of it [terrorism] in U.S. Why not? | ” |
Newsweek is an WP:RS and this quote is indicative of the NDF stand. Baka man 20:51, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Be aware that the vandal specialist Hkelkar and his sockpuppets [40] along with user:Eagerbeaver434 are back with their supporters to attack on this article. Please help to remove this vandalisation. His supporters are just make Edits without even discussing in the discussion page!. ---- Sundaram7 11:21, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
What ever written about the article had been discussed umpteen times as visible in discussion page. Wikipedia is not the right place to space conspiracy theories. All the entries made had been backed by mainstream media references as per Wiki:RS policy, while the Saudi Arabian contrarian editor is reiterating theories on regular intervals questing to prove the credibility of mainstream medias such as Washington Post.-- Sahyadhri ( talk) 11:26, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
The user User:Headmast ship had reverted quite a lot of changes without any explanation. After my first revert, he again repeated a complete revert to bring a minor change. I am reverting this back because no explanation for revert had been given to counter my arguments - especially removal of POV weasel words and OR sentences.
I am retaining the word "militant" in the intro as a citation from Frontline had been given. Other changes are not justified
Seeing the lack of existence of any other contributions by User:Headmast ship, I suspect he is a sockpuppet. If this behaviour is repeated, I will consider raising the issue again to a moderator with the identities of sockpuppets —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zencv ( talk • contribs) 14:57, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
I strongly suspect that User:Headmast ship is a sockpuppet of User:B Nambiar - both reverts many revisions without providing any explanation , makes no other positive contribution to the article other than introducing biased weasel words and POV Zencv ( talk) 07:15, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Quite a lot of clean up done by me to remove weasel words had been removed by User: B Nambiar and his suspected sockpuppet. You(and I) may disagree with NDF, but please stop vandalising - Wiki is for objective facts, not for bringing your POV. eg: The sentences like "NDF had been heavily criticized.." and "though NDF publicly denies..." etc. are inappropriate use of weasel words to bring biased POV and are nor referenced(if I am wrong, please provide where exactly).
The above users continuously vandalises and does nothing to improve the overall quality of the articles..Appropriate sockpuppet alerts are being raised to Wiki moderators. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zencv ( talk • contribs) 10:10, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Oh please, anyway the bone of contention I have is the removal of the sourced material in the additional views section, done with no reason and cleverly hidden under many accusations of POV and sock puppetry. KBN ( talk) 11:09, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
I removed the word "militant" from the intro and included it under criticism. This word was squeezed in based on a citation from Frontline. But this alone doesn't warrant this word to be taken as an absolute truth. We live in an age where you can call any organization any name including terrorist or militant - but not all of them deserve equal weightage. RSS had been accused as a fascist organization which involved in militant activities including the murder of Gandhi and Babri riots, but those who want to call NDF a militant outfit doesn't want these terms in the intro of RSS, isn't it? I retained the word Islamist because organization itself identifies as an Islamist organization.
I have included the word "militant" as it appeared on the reference provided under criticism section Zencv ( talk) 16:59, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
It is just your POV that Marad warrants NDF to be called a militant org. When giving such a controversial and hyper sensitive adjective to an organisation, you have to bring more arguments. RSS had been involved in zillion times more violent incidence, but I dont know whether you would approve if I write "RSS is a militant fascist org..." as the first sentence in the intro.
My argument is that NDF itself never accepted the allegations that it pursues militancy(like LTTE). It had been clearly involved in violent incidence like BJP, RSS and CPIM. So allegations and accusations are noted, but not good enough for name calling.
As a compromise, I have included it in the intro. itself in the next paragraph. Zencv ( talk) 18:27, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
It strikes me that there are some assertions made on this page that are not adequately sourced (such as calling the group "extremist" in the lead), and until such time as the article is cleaned up to address these concerns, the tags I placed should stay. — e. ripley\ talk 11:59, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
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Under "History", this part (and maybe more) is poorly sourced.
--- In 2012, the NDF organized various communal movements, demonstrations, rallies and other strikes against police brutality and government misconduct, claiming the right to work more in government employment. Reservations and allowances were implemented for Muslims. In 2021, the NDF was also involved in the hijab controversy in Kerala and Tamil Nadu by providing shelter, food and drink for those involved. ---
The statements refer to events of 2012 and 2021, but the cited sources date to 2006 and 2004. The source cited for the event supposedly dating to 2021 is also utterly irrelevant, describing relief activities in the aftermath of a natural disaster, and not having anything to do with any "hijab controversy".
This article was nominated for deletion on 2006-12-22. The result of the discussion was Keep (Nomination withdrawn). |
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This document is trying to be hijacked by two opposing views. I think it is better to have a session about what is NDF by the "NDF people" and What critics says about by its "critics". The information in WIKI should be neutral to the readers for its own neutrality. It is not a place for war. The issue on Marad is controversial. It is true that Five brothors have brutally killed in Marad-2, but it should be read with that in Marad-1, on which the opposite also lost their life. If something happens (Prays not to happen) in future then we shouldn't treat it as a seperate one. We should keep all in a sequense and treat it together to bring the culprits to account and bring the society to harmony before the Marad-1. Let the views talk each other and indian democracy is powerful enough to give the opposing views have its own importance. Let wiki be neutral.
by anonymous
I've rewritten the article today, keeping closely to what has been published by
reliable sources and focusing it on the National Democratic Front. There is also a redirect here from National Development Front at the moment, but that is not substantiated by the sources I've seen. --
Mereda
15:58, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Copied from User:Mereda talk page -
Its an unreliable partisan org and their page reads like SIMI propaganda. Baka man 00:31, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
There is no organisation named National Democratic Front in Kerala. i think the user had given partisan data and is not relevent. No government or any enquiry commmison reported NDF worked behind Marrad massacre. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sm ashiq ( talk • contribs)
If you read the Malayalam text on Image:Kerala2006_(18).JPG, the name of the organization is actually National Development Front. -- Soman 15:45, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
There is no organisation named National Democratic Front in Kerala. It is National Development Front. Please move to the later.
-- Soman 18:24, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
-- Sundaram7 06:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
I have seen two parties making arguments and counter arguments on putting artcles on NDF. I am not going to argue too much on what is ndf and what is not. But it is not fair to put only what they are not or what they are accused for.
As there were a lot of discussion on Murders and killings before, I am not getting into the topic. CPM and RSS everyday fights in kannur and blood is spilled all over kerala due to political killings and revenges. Sometimes these parties tries to accuse other smaller organisations for these nonsense. They use media and power to accuse the parties like NDF to escape from the responsibilites.
When you read NDF's publications and watch its activities closely, you will understand one thing: it is against the social evils and it stand srongly like killing of innocents especially by buerocrats and fascists.
Living in kerala, I have seen ISS and NDF. They are different. NDF is not a violant organisation ISS and it is not a organisation to fight RSS. As they claims their aim is the empowerment of musim mass and other backward people. We can say they are communal, but they are not a terrorist and extremist organisaiton. Ganeshco 13:23, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Note that Vinod Kumar's article doesn't mention the causes behind the banning of ISS. -- Soman 14:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Editors of this article: please don't do unprofessional disputes flipping the pages with each other. Please follow wikipedia's policies to change the pages. If you have arguments and counter arguments, please discuss it first and then modify. Please dont put immotional statements and arguments in the text. Please feel positive and try to resolve this dispute.-- Sundaram7 06:54, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
as far as I can see, a connection between the NDF and this "massacre" is also a matter of "allegation". We can certainly say the BJP thinks they are involved, and they may be involved for all I know, but we won't be able to just take BJP's word for it, we'd need a court decision at the very least. dab (𒁳) 08:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I am a new user of wiki. I am a person from kerala now based in bangalore. As per my knowladge and as per the public opinion NDF is an organization that is patriotic and that strives for the devolopment of our coutry. Whatever allegations put here are just the other side of the media and the fascist criminals just because a majority of people behind the organization are muslims. Please try to be neutral and please save wiki from the rise of islamophobia.
This article should be corrected.
I suggest that http://www.ndfindia.com/ which is their official site should be put in External links. And that is a must!!
Please go through the site and verify the facts, especially in the news section. The kind of activities the organization is involved shows their true nature. Those facts can be verified.
It is shame full that editors in wiki are also trapped by the fascists criminals. -- wrongNot Feb20 2007
Article was being modified in the right direction by
User:Dbachmann and now the user
Baka
man is creating trouble.
Please discuss the issue which you are having and lets resolve it before updating.
The user will have to explain why he deleted few facts which were laid by along with references and added new informations which are just an accusation by the largest communal parties.
why did this user remove the below information added by User:Dbachmann
"A killing of 8 Hindus in Bepur known as the "Marad massacre". NDF has condemned the incident and rejects all allegations of involvement, [1] [2]. and welcomed the CBI inquiry which did not investigate NDF involvement [3] [4]. "
I can see that this user
Baka
man have active roles in the articles on
Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and
VHP, groups that is trying to eliminate mulims from india and make india a hindu nation. (See the banner on the site RSS.org). Vast majority of Hindus as well as the political parties are strongly against the activities of these groups.
--
wrongNot Feb22 2007
Wrong not 06:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
look, Bakaman is partisan in this, and so are you. You have to both recognize this and sit down to carve out a neutral presentation of all views. And do go easy on the red font please. dab (𒁳) 10:24, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
References
Those who wish to criticize the organization may do in the criticism section..
59.160.207.14 07:28, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
most of the neutral contributions by User:Dbachmann were removed by User:Bakasuprman without any discussion here. Since the changes made by User:Bakasuprman had new informations too, i didn't revert the whole thing back to User:Dbachmann version, instead added the removed content back once again in the appropriate places Pens withdrawn 12:51, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Bakasuprman, please try to undertand and accept that NDF is not an islamist group. ---
Pens withdrawn
07:47, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
the alteration done by User:Lionheart5 on 14:36, 26 February 2007 on this article by just mentioning in the comment as rv POv pushing, is not acceptable. How can anyone change the entire article like that in one stretch without any discussion. --Pens withdrawn 06:26, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
I beleive Mr.Backmen from one of Fanatic organisation in India User User:Lionheart5 added the following text under criticism section.
"The Central Bureau of Investigation report found that "activists of IUML and NDF, a Muslim outfit, were actively involved in the massacre"
He was trying to twist the fact. As per the reference he has put, it is stated that
Thomas P Joseph Commission report, tabled in the assembly , found that "activists of IUML and NDF, a Muslim outfit, were actively involved in the massacre" of nine persons, including eight Hindus, at Marad beach in Kozhikode on May 2, 2003. And they have asked for a CBI enquiry. (reference - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2032620.cms ) Both IUML and NDF has welcomed CBI enquiry.
Whereas "The Hindu" states that
The Commission, in its findings, described how a minor incident on the Marad beach during the New Year celebrations on December 31, 2001 had turned into a riot on January 4, 2002 "due to the intervention of the CPI(M), Indian Union Muslim League (IUML) and BJP/RSS activists. This was the first of the riots and it led to the death of five persons belonging to two communities. (reference - http://www.hindu.com/2006/09/28/stories/2006092804310700.htm)
User:Lionheart5 is a new user and he is here to create trouble... He has also removed all the major sections created by administrator User:Dbachmann ---- Pens withdrawn 12:45, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
As per User:Freedom skies "Congress launched a campaign against terrorism in Malappuram district in Kerala, labeling NDF as an organization that promotes Islamic terrorism" [10]
Congress "We cannot close our eyes on extremist elements and activities." (edit summery comment by User:Freedom skies) [11]
where is islamic terrorism in that reference?? Did anywhere in the reference is it mentioned Islamic terrorism??? its therefore POV. Or else give appropriate reference.
User:Freedom skies is trying to twist the fact. The sentence he framed in the article means like congress launched the campaign to check islamic terrorism by NDF. whereas the reference he gave clearly says "The Congress on Tuesday launched a campaign against terrorism in Malappuram district, simultaneously taking on parties and organisations such as the Indian Union Muslim League (IUML), the Communist Party of India (Marxist), the National Development Front (NDF), the People's Democratic Party (PDP) and the Jama'at-e-Islami and its subsidiary Solidarity Youth Movement". CPI M involved in Islamic terrorism?? -- Fear the Fire 11:05, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
So noted. Accurate edit summaries would have helped. Freedom skies| talk 14:56, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
There are few relavant points in this section, which we need to review and expand further. But the real fact is missing. For example in the article "between hope and fear" in hinduonline, there is no mentioning about the 2002 massacre. But there is a quoting in the article which ways In Marad, RSS activists who are guilty of the crimes committed during the 2002 incident are roaming around freely [14]. Now it is confusing. I have removed some POVs as cited by Baka, Soman and Pens Withdrawn. They are dicussed in the above sections. We need to continue the positive discussion to clean up this article.---- Sundaram7 14:38, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Please dont bring it back again: The statement from Pinarai Vijayan is not a source for putting information in wikipedia. It is just an accusation but not proved. If you start putting the accusation, wikipedia is not the place for it. The book "Will I Be Killed?" doesnt talk about the NDF. It is talking about terrorism and its linkage. But NDF stands for human rights, to protect people from terrorism from goverment and communal groups. For some editors, they are trying to divert the attention putting unecessary arguments like Terrorism. Let us talk positively and contribute to wiki in positive way, not in a destructive way. --- Sundaram7 07:26, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
This article has been a subject of revert warring since a long time. Please discuss here instead of blindly reverting. I am also concerned that people are engaging in sockpuppetry in order to evade 3RR. I am investigating the matter. - Aksi_great ( talk) 08:25, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
There is a deliberate attempt recently to damage the article and to mix drop of wrong informaiton here and there in the article. Please note that this article has gone through different review by the administrators and differnt peole with differnt POVs. I have put back the nutral version of the article which was reviewed by our admininistrators like User:Dbachmann and User:Aksi_great -- Sundaram7 15:58, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Think about CIA's , British agencies and the indepentend media's view (7/7 or 9/11) got countered by O.B.L 's and Taliban's view —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.145.142.36 ( talk) 09:16, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
1. Why you call it as militant Islamist organization ? What is your reference fot it?
Answer>>I used the description "Right wing Islamic organization " only check the wiki edits. Extensive mainstream media reports are there to prove. Your version is nothing but a replica of NDF portal, can you provide a non-partisan mentioning it as not an Islamic organization
2. What is your evidence for NDF allegedly encourages Pakistan-backed ISI related activities in Kerala.?
Answer>>it was reported by a governmental agency "The kerala State Police" the source http://www.hindu.com/2005/05/14/stories/2005051402780700.htm . A report presented by an IPS ranked Officer under his/ her capacity as the Commissionar of Police Kozhikode district . The only placed used this was under alleged foreign connection and no where else. Which is the acceptable resource for wikipedia ? governmental agency source or the ones sited from the mouth piece of NDF or Jama et Islami or other Partisan Orgainizations siting that state establishment is colluding with its opponents . we can wait for a nuetral source to come out with an answer on which is an [[WP:NPOV]
3. How you can say It also stands accused of being a propaganda front for numerous Islamic terrorist groups, and for orchestrating the 2002 Marad massacre (see Criticism below) ?? In 2002, among the arrested were workers of Hindutva workers of ARAYASAMAJAM, RSS. Are they Islamist parties? So there is no logic or reference to prove your point.
Answer>>I added it is a propaganda front under 2003 Marad massacre not 2002, this too was substantiated citing reports in mainstream media originated from Police and Intelligence agencies,among the arrested were only workers of Hindutva workers of ARAYASAMAJAM, RSS . A item under criticism refered as Modus Operandi published in frontline courting a governement source also worth noting. Here also [[WP:NPOV] needs to be judged by a third party as one of the particies does'nt see governement source as nuetral.
4. You changed in sevaral places from the fact as 'claiming' of NDF. Why you don't want to agree on the facts?
Answer>>I havenotdone that. which are Facts and claims depends on the perspective of contributers also. The NPOV here are different for the 2 sides , for one side 'Fact' is mainstream media reports based on Governamental agencies and for the other 'Facts' exactly the claim made the NDF and allied organizations through their mouthpiece. How there will be a mutual consensus on this in such a scenario?
5. You are calling Mukuntan C Menon as radical Islamist !!. Why you want to call him this way...? he is not even a Muslim!!
Answer>>This got removed already. Article is seen opiniating him as a "Great human rights Activist". Him being a non-muslim does,nt bar him from associating with muslim group. Is Dr Najma Heptullah, Muqthar Abbas Naqwi associated with Sangh Pariwar Hindus? Mukuntan C Menon's is associated with Thejas daily the mouthpiece of NDF , he is referred in article as a Journalist only.fundamentalist groups often quotes articles from Ultra Left wing due to their congruence in stand on various issues such US imperialism,Israel,Hindutva forces, with a transactional association with a person will there be diference in stand of an organization again wait for a nuetral source to come out on which is an [[WP:NPOV]
6. Why you want to link it to ISI and Pakistan? Did any government agency prove this? It is just some propaganda of fascist and unpopular parties in india. All parties have their opposition. This party is not an exception.
Answer>>Yes it was reported by a government agency "The kerala State Police" the source http://www.hindu.com/2005/05/14/stories/2005051402780700.htm .I do entered article linking with ISI and Pakistan with O.Rs given to question 2
7 It is a new finding from your group that NDF is started by Abdulnassar Madani!! .It looks like LogicaCMG.com / 59.145.142.36, is pledged to defeat this article!.
Answer>>This was removed already You were making the article a propaganda centre for NDF likes it portal.All the claims made by the organization are refered as 'Facts' Does mentioning of activities of this organization siting WP:OR tantamount to defeating this article.Here the question is which is an WP:NPOV
8 Where in the internview [1] the guy find that the organisation is a right wing?
Answer>> Read the 2 articles properly . does it sound for you it is like any other organization as you have stated .This because the WP:NPOV for you are articles from either NDF or its allied Organization
9 What is your reference to prove that NDF is a militant group?
Answer>> "Right wing Islamic organisation " is used there . WP:OR as per this 'point of view ' are provided . The contrarian view differs from this , so no consensus
10 What you mean by Forced Implementation Of Sharia ?? There is nothing of that information explained in the reference:[2]. This is a real POV!
Answer>> "Implementation of religious code " was used .. WP:OR as per this 'point of view ' are provided regarding this After going through the if you didn’t find the entries regarding Implementation of religious code . I'am surprised.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Liberal Democrat ( talk • contribs) 11:24, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
The VandaL sundaram7 is removing sourced articles article under the pretext that any thing stated outside the manifesto of NDF are not NPOVs . He is seen loosely quoting wiki rules whenever necessary, under many occasions WP:Verifiability is not followed in quoting O.Rs, the WP:Verifiability section "Sources in languages other than English" was never followed from the beggining. Overall idea seems to make the article a propaganda pag of this organization
Removed the following vandals:
* To defend the human rights atrocities from Police, Military, Government and non governmental agencies.
[1]
The Thomas P Joseph Commission report found that "activists of NDF, a Muslim outfit, were actively involved in the massacre"Cite error: A
<ref>
tag is missing the closing </ref>
(see the
help page).
In addition, the State secretary of the
Communist Party of India (Marxist) in Kerala,
Pinarayi Vijayan, has said that NDF was involved in the
Marad massacre and referred to them as a "terrorist outfit" that executed a "planned mass murder".
[2]
::What about the stated manifesto's of NDF which are opininiated as facts , can you prove through a non - partisan source that they are NPOV
Ms Neera Rawat IPS, Senior Superintendent of Police, Bareilly, Uttar Pradesh, deposed before the Marad Judicial Inquiry Commission, Justice Thomas P. Joseph (reference
Marad_massacre) that the Kozhikode Special Branch during her tenure as
Kozhikode City Police Commissioner from March 22, 1997 to May 16 1999. She also added before the Inquiry Commission that the police had prepared confidential and authentic reports that
ISI and
Iran were the fund sponsors of the NDF.
[3].
The NDF has been heavily criticized for recruiting the largely moderate and progressive
Kerala
Muslims into extremist ideologies.
citation needed The organization, while superficially a "Human Rights Group", has attracted numerous
Islamic Fundamentalists to their ranks, and, as such, stand compared to several more well-known militant
Islamist groups such as
Lashkar-e-Toiba,
Hizbul Mujahideen and others
[4].
::Come to point with respect to wikipedia rules for entry, that how it is getting negated here . only wiki rules are the set of standards to be followed in editing the article
while following WP:balancing, the whole article has become a source as mentioned in WP:OR
Haifa University political scientist
David Bukay lists the NDF as a "fundamentalist and subversive group"
[5]
::Come to wikipedia rules , that how it is getting negated here . only wiki rules are the set of standards to be followed in editing the article
while following WP:balancing, the whole article has become a source as mentioned in WP:OR.If David Bukay (haifa uni)is fascist , that is the opinion shared by them about NDF and its supporters, so leave it to third party dispute as per WP:DR
The NDF is alleged to involved in pushing the
Islamic
Sharia code in cosmopolitan Muslim society , which itin India, an act viewed by moderate Muslims and secularists as "
Talibanization".A typical case reported by media is killing Fakir Uppappa or Siddhan, killed in November for indulging in "un-Islamic spiritualism".
[6]
::This got reported from IndianExpress daily state here how the wiki rules are negated here
A
muslim was murdered in Punalur for his binding with Leftist oganization [DYFI].The media reports involving the killing of CPI(M)’s Ashraf in Punalur in
Kollam district points towards this.
[7]
::This got reported from IndianExpress daily please state here how this happened to be a POV
Allegation of targeting the liberals in the community: those who do not strictly follow
Islamic laws like abstaining from liquor, fasting during
Ramadan and
wearing the makhna or the
purdah.
[8]
:: Is milligazette accepted as reliable source
Islamism
"Mediapersons have been misled by Intelligence authorities to believe that the NDF was a militant organisation. They had said the same thing about Congress during the freedom struggle."
::The user is requested to substantitiate ,how the above quoted entry stated in the article happens to be WP:NPOV with repect to the WP:Verifiability policy
And over all what is your concept regarding WP:NPOV
"activists of IUML and NDF, a Muslim outfit, were actively involved in the massacre" It is stated in the article so referring to Thomas P. Joseph commission report. Afer reading the complete report it is found that there is no such reference in Joseph P Commission Report. The complete report is here in PDF format: [28]. This really helped me to point out that the writer is trying to push his POV into the article.
Kottakkal Police station attack: Only Sangh Parivar and Marxist party say so. All the mainstream media in Kerala has evaluated this as attack from police and the photos of damaged cars and vehicles of the N D F activists were shown in next day's news papers. Refer to same day's news papers.
Pakistan MP's visit row:
Only Sangh Parivar found something wrong in this visit. Infact it was a accusation only. Even if it is a fact, what is wrong in it? Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal is a political party and they are not part of ISI or banned Pakistani extremist movements. If one of Indian minister visit pakistan and their people, do a pakistani say that it is against Pakistani Nationalism. It is in fact will be evaluated to enrich the relations between two neighboring countries.
Additional Views: This portion is a pure vandal. The reference is from a sangh parivar ideologist.
Islamic Sevak Sangh and SIMI links:
This is also an accusation. The great evidence is that these organizations have their own existence. No SIMI workers are there in NDF. But there are NDF workers who were previously working for different movements like SIMI, PDP, IUML, DYFI; and later on they found that they should work for Indian minority movement like NDF and leave their terrorist and rightwing lines.
You can see similar situations in other organizations also. For example, K T jaleel and Abdussamad Samadani were previously working for SIMI and they later disagreed with the extremist thoughts and jointed in mainstream movements of IUML.
Pakistan-backed ISI related activities in Kerala:
There are many organizations, political parties in Kerala. But only sangh parivar declares that N D F has ISI links [29]. They are trying to push these views using mainstream media. example is [30]. But they are not able to bring single evidence towards it. Once they reported an incident in Baypore that an ISI ship in Baypore and police has caught the accused. But when they suspects were in quested, it found that they were from Indian Army!!.
most of the points mentioned bellow appears as Original Research done by Sundaram7 quite interesting to see your enthusiasm !!
--- Sundaram7 12:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Sundaram7 & is warned to refrain from personal attacks least it will invite Intervention
References
Kerala is witnessing more and more recruits into this extremist Islamic ideology". When the names are the alarming "Lashkar-e-Toiba" and "Hizbul Mujahiddeen" in the "uneducated North", it is very humorously garbed as "National Development Front" in the south"
Evidence of these processes [preparation for large-scale acts of terror] is mounting throughout India, and is reflected in the number of fundamentalist and subversive groups that exist, and the geographical spread of their activities. The most prominent of these include the Jamaat-e-Islami Hind, the All India Milli Council, All India Jihad Committee, The People's Democratic Party, Muslim United Front, Tamil Nadu Muslim Munnetra Kazagham, National Development Front, Students Islamic Movement of India, among others
The User Sundaram 7 is requested to come with mainstream and governmental sources to prove his point like the other editors. Wiki is about verifiability, on what Jurisdiction/powers you can comment on various agencies? ,this is not a blog or space alloted for NDF. It seems you are annoyed about criticism from the very beggining as seen in this page. Come with solid proofs not with your own hypothesis as seen stated through out these page.You can claim the whole media & ruling establishments are biased but that cant reflect in Wiki as there are principles laid out for entries here .-- 212.8.174.135 13:54, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
user:Thegoldenageoftheflyingspaghettimonster is trying to help user:liberal Democrat removing my edits even in discussions. see [33]. This proves that they are related and work for the banned user user:Hkelkar.
Why you guys fear to discuss the facts. This document is totally learned towards Sangh Parivar views. Not balanced at all. !! -- Sundaram7 11:48, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Sundaram,Everyone has the same access to Wikipedia as you have ,it is totaly Uncivil to try to manufacture opinion against another as you are doing.Edits show you were repeating the same for quite sometime. So it is high time you got warned of a block from this article.-- 59.93.32.65 08:46, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
As reports denote Internet has become the largest playgound for Jihadi activists,in this article also the same overtone are seen under the guise of Sundaram7/198.36.32.21 [34]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sahyadhri ( talk • contribs) 07:38, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
"activists of IUML and NDF, a Muslim outfit, were actively involved in the massacre" It is stated in the article so referring to Thomas P. Joseph commission report. Afer reading the complete report it is found that there is no such reference in Joseph P Commission Report. The complete report is here in PDF format: [35]. This really helped me to point out that the writer is trying to push his POV into the article.
Kottakkal Police station attack: Only Sangh Parivar and Marxist party say so. All the mainstream media in Kerala has evaluated this as attack from police and the photos of damaged cars and vehicles of the N D F activists were shown in next day's news papers. Refer to same day's news papers.
Pakistan MP's visit row:
Only Sangh Parivar found something wrong in this visit. Infact it was a accusation only. Even if it is a fact, what is wrong in it? Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal is a political party and they are not part of ISI or banned Pakistani extremist movements. If one of Indian minister visit pakistan and their people, do a pakistani say that it is against Pakistani Nationalism. It is in fact will be evaluated to enrich the relations between two neighboring countries.
Additional Views: This portion is a pure vandal. The reference is from a sangh parivar ideologist.
Islamic Sevak Sangh and SIMI links:
This is also an accusation. The great evidence is that these organizations have their own existence. No SIMI workers are there in NDF. But there are NDF workers who were previously working for different movements like SIMI, PDP, IUML, DYFI; and later on they found that they should work for Indian minority movement like NDF and leave their terrorist and rightwing lines.
You can see similar situations in other organizations also. For example, K T jaleel and Abdussamad Samadani were previously working for SIMI and they later disagreed with the extremist thoughts and jointed in mainstream movements of IUML.
Pakistan-backed ISI related activities in Kerala:
There are many organizations, political parties in Kerala. But only sangh parivar declares that N D F has ISI links [36]. They are trying to push these views using mainstream media. example is [37]. But they are not able to bring single evidence towards it. Once they reported an incident in Baypore that an ISI ship in Baypore and police has caught the accused. But when they suspects were in quested, it found that they were from Indian Army!!.
Islamic and Islamist:
“ | I was very happy, excited, on September 11th. Someone called me to switch on BBC and I saw the aircraft crashing into the World Trade Center and I saw it crumbling down -- down like the United States and I was laughing… Osama Bin Laden gave Americans back what they had done to the world. It was a wonderful thing! What else can a helpless people do? There should be more of it [terrorism] in U.S. Why not? | ” |
Newsweek is an WP:RS and this quote is indicative of the NDF stand. Baka man 20:51, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Be aware that the vandal specialist Hkelkar and his sockpuppets [40] along with user:Eagerbeaver434 are back with their supporters to attack on this article. Please help to remove this vandalisation. His supporters are just make Edits without even discussing in the discussion page!. ---- Sundaram7 11:21, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
What ever written about the article had been discussed umpteen times as visible in discussion page. Wikipedia is not the right place to space conspiracy theories. All the entries made had been backed by mainstream media references as per Wiki:RS policy, while the Saudi Arabian contrarian editor is reiterating theories on regular intervals questing to prove the credibility of mainstream medias such as Washington Post.-- Sahyadhri ( talk) 11:26, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
The user User:Headmast ship had reverted quite a lot of changes without any explanation. After my first revert, he again repeated a complete revert to bring a minor change. I am reverting this back because no explanation for revert had been given to counter my arguments - especially removal of POV weasel words and OR sentences.
I am retaining the word "militant" in the intro as a citation from Frontline had been given. Other changes are not justified
Seeing the lack of existence of any other contributions by User:Headmast ship, I suspect he is a sockpuppet. If this behaviour is repeated, I will consider raising the issue again to a moderator with the identities of sockpuppets —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zencv ( talk • contribs) 14:57, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
I strongly suspect that User:Headmast ship is a sockpuppet of User:B Nambiar - both reverts many revisions without providing any explanation , makes no other positive contribution to the article other than introducing biased weasel words and POV Zencv ( talk) 07:15, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Quite a lot of clean up done by me to remove weasel words had been removed by User: B Nambiar and his suspected sockpuppet. You(and I) may disagree with NDF, but please stop vandalising - Wiki is for objective facts, not for bringing your POV. eg: The sentences like "NDF had been heavily criticized.." and "though NDF publicly denies..." etc. are inappropriate use of weasel words to bring biased POV and are nor referenced(if I am wrong, please provide where exactly).
The above users continuously vandalises and does nothing to improve the overall quality of the articles..Appropriate sockpuppet alerts are being raised to Wiki moderators. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zencv ( talk • contribs) 10:10, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
Oh please, anyway the bone of contention I have is the removal of the sourced material in the additional views section, done with no reason and cleverly hidden under many accusations of POV and sock puppetry. KBN ( talk) 11:09, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
I removed the word "militant" from the intro and included it under criticism. This word was squeezed in based on a citation from Frontline. But this alone doesn't warrant this word to be taken as an absolute truth. We live in an age where you can call any organization any name including terrorist or militant - but not all of them deserve equal weightage. RSS had been accused as a fascist organization which involved in militant activities including the murder of Gandhi and Babri riots, but those who want to call NDF a militant outfit doesn't want these terms in the intro of RSS, isn't it? I retained the word Islamist because organization itself identifies as an Islamist organization.
I have included the word "militant" as it appeared on the reference provided under criticism section Zencv ( talk) 16:59, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
It is just your POV that Marad warrants NDF to be called a militant org. When giving such a controversial and hyper sensitive adjective to an organisation, you have to bring more arguments. RSS had been involved in zillion times more violent incidence, but I dont know whether you would approve if I write "RSS is a militant fascist org..." as the first sentence in the intro.
My argument is that NDF itself never accepted the allegations that it pursues militancy(like LTTE). It had been clearly involved in violent incidence like BJP, RSS and CPIM. So allegations and accusations are noted, but not good enough for name calling.
As a compromise, I have included it in the intro. itself in the next paragraph. Zencv ( talk) 18:27, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
It strikes me that there are some assertions made on this page that are not adequately sourced (such as calling the group "extremist" in the lead), and until such time as the article is cleaned up to address these concerns, the tags I placed should stay. — e. ripley\ talk 11:59, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
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Under "History", this part (and maybe more) is poorly sourced.
--- In 2012, the NDF organized various communal movements, demonstrations, rallies and other strikes against police brutality and government misconduct, claiming the right to work more in government employment. Reservations and allowances were implemented for Muslims. In 2021, the NDF was also involved in the hijab controversy in Kerala and Tamil Nadu by providing shelter, food and drink for those involved. ---
The statements refer to events of 2012 and 2021, but the cited sources date to 2006 and 2004. The source cited for the event supposedly dating to 2021 is also utterly irrelevant, describing relief activities in the aftermath of a natural disaster, and not having anything to do with any "hijab controversy".