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National democracy is not an alliance/organization. It is a political movement and an ideological variant of
New Democracy in the
Philippines. Help me improve the article. ~PogingJuan 15:40, 28 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Yes, national democracy is an ideology. But the National Democracy Movement is an organization. There should be separate for them.
Charles Essie (
talk) 22:13, 28 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Charles Essie - The organization "National Democracy Movement" (KILUSAN para sa Pambansang Demokrasya) is a lesser known "national democratic organization", compared to
Anakbayan,
League of Filipino Students, etc. This article obviously discusses the overall movement and the ideological background for "national democracy", not an organization, and therefore, the move is justified. We can just make another article for the organization, "KILUSAN para sa Pambansang Demokrasya" (National Democracy Movement). ~PogingJuan 08:51, 1 March 2021 (UTC)reply
I see. Perhaps a split discussion would've been better.
Charles Essie (
talk) 09:24, 1 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Requested move 28 February 2021
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Moved to
National Democracy (Philippines). After much-extended time for discussion, there is a consensus for this limited move. Subdivision of the article or other changes are a topic for a different discussion.
BD2412T 23:44, 1 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment – it would have made more sense to simply revert the undiscussed move and topic change and discuss with editor to see what's going on.
Dicklyon (
talk) 00:02, 1 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Strongly oppose - As I am personally familiar and involved with the movement, I know that this should not be kept the way it was. It makes us assume that it is a mere alliance, when in fact it is not. Correct, there is an organization called "National Democracy Movement" (KILUSAN para sa Pambansang Demokrasya), but it is a lesser known "national democratic organization", compared to
Anakbayan,
League of Filipino Students, etc. This existing article obviously discusses the overall movement and the ideological background for "national democracy", not about an organization or alliance of organization, and therefore, the move is justified. We can just make another article for the organization, "KILUSAN para sa Pambansang Demokrasya" (National Democracy Movement), which is a farmers' organization. ~PogingJuan 08:58, 1 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Charles Essie - I've actually discussed the rationale of the move and that could be seen in the page history. It goes like this: "There is an actual "Kilusan para sa Pambansang Demokrasya" organization. But it is not the subject of this article. This article's subject is not a mere alliance of organizations. It is an ideological movement, an application of Maoist principles in the Philippines." I am planning to further improve the article and add several citations. ~PogingJuan 09:07, 1 March 2021 (UTC)reply
The nominator is wrong to assume that the original subject matter of the article is that it is an organization, as it is really not. It is not. For the existing context of the article, it is not even "National Democracy Movement" capitalized, it is "national democratic movement", a movement for "national democracy". Then the background of the ideology was discussed in "History and background". ~PogingJuan 09:24, 1 March 2021 (UTC)reply
I understand what you're saying and I agree. It was a mistake to start this discussion. I apologize for wasting your time.
Charles Essie (
talk) 09:25, 1 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Support National Democracy (Philippines) and split into National Democracy Movement.
Charles Essie (
talk) 06:31, 11 March 2021 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Tambayan Philippines, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics related to the
Philippines on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Tambayan PhilippinesWikipedia:WikiProject Tambayan PhilippinesTemplate:WikiProject Tambayan PhilippinesPhilippine-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Socialism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
socialism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SocialismWikipedia:WikiProject SocialismTemplate:WikiProject Socialismsocialism articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
National democracy is not an alliance/organization. It is a political movement and an ideological variant of
New Democracy in the
Philippines. Help me improve the article. ~PogingJuan 15:40, 28 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Yes, national democracy is an ideology. But the National Democracy Movement is an organization. There should be separate for them.
Charles Essie (
talk) 22:13, 28 February 2021 (UTC)reply
Charles Essie - The organization "National Democracy Movement" (KILUSAN para sa Pambansang Demokrasya) is a lesser known "national democratic organization", compared to
Anakbayan,
League of Filipino Students, etc. This article obviously discusses the overall movement and the ideological background for "national democracy", not an organization, and therefore, the move is justified. We can just make another article for the organization, "KILUSAN para sa Pambansang Demokrasya" (National Democracy Movement). ~PogingJuan 08:51, 1 March 2021 (UTC)reply
I see. Perhaps a split discussion would've been better.
Charles Essie (
talk) 09:24, 1 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Requested move 28 February 2021
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Moved to
National Democracy (Philippines). After much-extended time for discussion, there is a consensus for this limited move. Subdivision of the article or other changes are a topic for a different discussion.
BD2412T 23:44, 1 April 2021 (UTC)reply
Comment – it would have made more sense to simply revert the undiscussed move and topic change and discuss with editor to see what's going on.
Dicklyon (
talk) 00:02, 1 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Strongly oppose - As I am personally familiar and involved with the movement, I know that this should not be kept the way it was. It makes us assume that it is a mere alliance, when in fact it is not. Correct, there is an organization called "National Democracy Movement" (KILUSAN para sa Pambansang Demokrasya), but it is a lesser known "national democratic organization", compared to
Anakbayan,
League of Filipino Students, etc. This existing article obviously discusses the overall movement and the ideological background for "national democracy", not about an organization or alliance of organization, and therefore, the move is justified. We can just make another article for the organization, "KILUSAN para sa Pambansang Demokrasya" (National Democracy Movement), which is a farmers' organization. ~PogingJuan 08:58, 1 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Charles Essie - I've actually discussed the rationale of the move and that could be seen in the page history. It goes like this: "There is an actual "Kilusan para sa Pambansang Demokrasya" organization. But it is not the subject of this article. This article's subject is not a mere alliance of organizations. It is an ideological movement, an application of Maoist principles in the Philippines." I am planning to further improve the article and add several citations. ~PogingJuan 09:07, 1 March 2021 (UTC)reply
The nominator is wrong to assume that the original subject matter of the article is that it is an organization, as it is really not. It is not. For the existing context of the article, it is not even "National Democracy Movement" capitalized, it is "national democratic movement", a movement for "national democracy". Then the background of the ideology was discussed in "History and background". ~PogingJuan 09:24, 1 March 2021 (UTC)reply
I understand what you're saying and I agree. It was a mistake to start this discussion. I apologize for wasting your time.
Charles Essie (
talk) 09:25, 1 March 2021 (UTC)reply
Support National Democracy (Philippines) and split into National Democracy Movement.
Charles Essie (
talk) 06:31, 11 March 2021 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.