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A large anti-Semitism notice should be placed at the top of this article in accordance with the large "Islamophobia" notices at the top of articles of organizations critical of Islam such as Stop Islamization of America. Also, since Wikipedia states unequivocally that " Counterjihad is an anti-Islamic,[1] islamophobic,[2][3][4] far-right,[1] and intellectual[5] political current" in the very first sentence, this article should state that "the Nation of Islam is an anti-Semitic, Judeophobic, far-left, and cult-like political current" in the very first sentence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jose.medez248 ( talk • contribs) 22:47, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
I don't understand what the complaint is. The third sentence of the article says the NoI is considered antisemitic. What do you want, flashing lights and balloons? — Malik Shabazz Talk/ Stalk 01:45, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
"Wikipedia's style manual." which is not created by the moderators or creators of wiki. and gaming the system is to be taken into consideration here. so yes, of course it does not matter. "other stuff exists" cannot also be used as an argument since its only used in creating or deleting a article. NOT having equality. equality itself is good. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.53.83.22 ( talk) 20:48, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Should the fact that the Nation of Islam is designated a hate group by the SPLC be in the lead of the article? Biccat ( talk) 16:22, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
The “Its critics accuse it” phrase creates a false equivalence in the article lead. If we look at the better written Klu Klux Klan article, it simple states the Klu Klux Klan is a racist and anti-Semitic hate group based on the similar references of the Anti-Defamation League and the SPLC. It would be more accurate to do the same here. The “Its critics accuse it” phrase is weasel wording which produces the false impression that some legitimate third parties also exist that do not view the NOI as a racist and anti-Semitic hate group. There are no such legitimate third parties. -- Truthwillneverdie ( talk) 00:29, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 17:03, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
In the section Comparison with Traditional Islam of the Nation of Islam page, you say that NOI differs from Traditional Islam based on five points, all of which are false. Here's why
1. "Belief in one God (Allah)" NOI believe that there is only One God (Allah), and he came (to the blacks in America) in the person of Master Fard Muhammad. This is different from your statement that "NOI believes Wallace Fard was Allah". The difference is in the wording, it is misleading, obviously NOI don't believe that Wallace Fard is responsible for the creation of Heaven and Earth. It is imperative that you include "in the person of", otherwise the statement is false and it should not be listed as fact.
2. "Prayer: Traditional Muslims believe that the five daily prayers (salat) are mandatory, the NOI believes that they are not." This is simply untrue, the sources you have listed are not factual sources. Elijah Muhammad told his followers in his book titled " Muslim Daily Prayers" that the MINIMUM 5 daily prayers are mandatory and "necessary for spiritual advancement". If you need proof you can order the book from the NOI website, or I will gladly photocopy the proof and send them to you.
3. "Fasting in the Islamic month of Ramadhan". NOI Muslims do indeed fast along with all other Muslims during the holy month of Ramadhan. The only option is mainly meant for new converts who have the option to fast during the month of December instead due to the shorter days and to get them away from celebrating Christmas. You may believe that this is unacceptable but the Quran says that out of Allah's mercy, a sick person or a traveler was instructed to fast a number of days equal to those he missed during Ramadan. NOI interpret being sick or on a journey as both physical and spiritual, thus a person on a spiritual journey to become a Muslim who is not yet strong enough (sick) can fast during December instead. All in all, NOI indeed practice Ramadhan, period. Therefore your statement that "NOI holds that this is optional" is absolutely false.
4. "Compulsory Charity (zakaat)" The NOI do indeed practice charity. Not only by contributing monetary funds to benefit the community, but by contributing time to go into troubled communities and try to stifle drug addiction, gangs, and other ills.
5. "Pilgrimage (Hajj)" You stated that the "NOI holds that this is optional". This is again simply untrue. The NOI believe like every other Muslim that Hajj is mandatory at least once in a life time, Insha'Allah.
As you can see, this entire section is false and this is why it needs to be changed. If you are still not convinced then I would be happy to prove it to you. Thank you for listening, RashidanScholar127 ( talk) 16:08, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Since 2010, Minister Louis Farrakhan has controversially taken to teaching Dianetics after being audited extensively by Scientology Reverend Alfreddie Johnson(a personal friend of Farrakhan). He is now teaching Hubbard as being one of his heroes and some Scientology doctrines. You can search "Farrakhan Scientology" on youtube and you will see sermons where he has taken to teaching the doctrines of L Ron Hubbard. Currently they are establishing a "Nation Of Islam Dianetics Center" in Chicago, and the Nation of Islam leadership are now ALL required to be schooled in Dianetics. I believe this warrants the addition of a "Nation Of Islam's relationship with Scientology/Dianetics" section, along with the article's potential inclusion into the Scientology portal. Perhaps a paragraph bringing either the history section, or the Controversy section(where it would also fit), up to date to include this drift to Scientology would be enough. Colliric ( talk) 17:34, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
But may have sounded awkward in that location. However this use of "embrace" repeatedly and unusually also makes for awkward prose and stilted reading, let's use some synonyms for the encyclopedia rather than sounding like a campaign. --( AfadsBad ( talk) 18:05, 6 October 2013 (UTC))
The last two sentence in the first paragraph on NOI beliefs states, "Abortions are strongly discouraged except in the cases where the mother's life is in danger. However, the Nation of Islam argues that because of the unique experience of the oppression and degradation of slavery, Elijah Muhammad used unique methods for introducing Islam to his people."
I'm confused. Is the last sentence about abortion? I don't see the connection and there's no footnote to clarify it. What does the "however" signify?
69.204.91.53 ( talk) 16:17, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Manning Marable's "Malcolm X: A Life of Reinvention" is widely considered the most authoritative and full biography of Malcolm's life. In it Marable documents, as an academic historian, through various sources, that the Nation of Islam was deeply involved and ultimately responsible gor Malcolms assassination. While many details are unclear due to the FBI still keeping many files confidential it is known that all of the purpetrators were NOI and that the leadership had actively spoken of the need to kill Malcolm. There were also previously documented attempts on his life and documented cases of murder of other NOI members. The NOI had a history of severe internal control and violence. This should appear in the article perhaps under a seperate heading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.199.168.73 ( talk) 03:24, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
In the section Comparison with traditional Islam, so of the item are 100% wrong.
Someone is literally putting lies that are easily check into Wikipedia! Propaganda Editors are at it again. SMH.
I'm making the whole Article as NPOV.
How does the NOI reconcile the historical fact that Islamic slave traders sold their ancestors into bondage? Why would they take on the religion of their oppressors? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.176.56.225 ( talk) 02:37, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
I restored the statement that the movement is/was referred to as the Black Muslims. This term isn't used much since the 1970s, but certainly was a name used for the Nation especially in the prisons, even if it's not used much now. [1] generic_hipster 11:43, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
References
This page contains a translation of Nation of Islam from fr.wikipedia. |
86.137.60.115 ( talk) 17:21, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
That portion of the entry is inadequate. No mention at all of the explicit racism of NOI? Dare I say this article is a whitewash? Nicmart ( talk) 18:52, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
It is also inaccurate because it cannot be similar to mainstream Islam which believes in the same cosmology as Christianity and Judaism, Adam and Eve and the garden of Eden, etc. The NOI is a completely different imagination of creation and people's interaction with God. I have edited several times that become "fixed" back to the same nonsense that the NOI is similar to mainstream Islam. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
73.172.235.204 (
talk) 18:31, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
The group should be described as a new religious movement
SAGE knowledge [2] Encyclopedia of Social Media and Politics ( http://dx.doi.org/10.4135/9781452244723.n356)
"The Nation of Islam is known as a religion, empowerment organization, new religious movement, or black nationalist/separatist group, depending on the speaker and audience"
Calling the group an "Islamic religious movement" is a POV issue, given the section on divergence from mainstream Sunni Islam. WP:LEAD says to summarise the article. -- Callinus ( talk) 08:23, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Islam believes in the creation of the universe in agreement with Judaism and Christianity. The NOI has a completely different idea of how the world was made, and is not fundamentally related to mainstream Islam. Claiming the status does not change the fact they have fabricated their own beliefs from scratch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.172.235.204 ( talk) 18:34, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
The article is incorrect on wikipedia. The NOI should be defined as a new religious movement that claims to be associated with Islam but has no factual basis for that relationship and a completely alternate creation myth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.172.235.204 ( talk) 18:37, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
Arthur Dent Lives, I have largely reverted your edits for two reasons. The first is neutrality, in the context of a belief, this means that we do not define a belief according to whether it conforms to another belief. Were we to do so, Anglicanism and Protestantism would be simply defined as 'heresies' (the RC position, and I even know of a Jewish academic who thinks all Christianity is a Jewish heresy). Ordinarily (and in this instance), we present the similarities and differences neutrally, without implying that either is 'fake'.
The second reason is that the source you used is poor, is Michael Young a noted Islamic scholar? Does he have authority to speak on behalf of 'mainstream Islam', or should this simply be treated as his opinion? I am prepared to believe that many Muslims see NoI as a 'heresy' or abberation, for that reason I left part of your text (Because of these differences, the Nation of Islam is not recognized by some mainstream Muslims. your ref), despite the poor sourcing.
Even with a controversial subject like Creationism, we ordinarily present the belief first, and then note that mainstream science largely dismisses this belief as unscientific, we don't use the dismissal to replace or characterise the belief. There may be stronger Islamic sources dismissing NoI, if so that would justify a stronger 'dismissal', however it could never justify dismissing NoI beliefs altogether. Pincrete ( talk) 19:27, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
Pincrete, I see what you are saying and I am somewhat new at editing wikipedia so I am not going to argue about the material. I tried to find better sources but none seem to exist in this case. Scholarly work exploring the perception of the NOI by other Muslim groups seems to be very scarce. My related work in Detroit has brushed up against the idea that Muslim Americans have distanced themselves from the NOI, but I have nothing published or seen anything on that in specific. This may be an ongoing issue for any topics related to Islam, as there is no central authority in the religion such as a Pope who can definitively make a decree on such a thing. Anyone could claim the status without embracing the core message of the religion. Without a rooting in the Christian and Judaism traditions, as Islam followed, it is difficult to believe that a religion can claim the relationship with Islam just by using the name and some aspects of the practice. Maybe we can figure out a way to improve wikipedia's approach to this type of issue, a "teach the controversy" type approach to discuss the possibilities in the absence of a referee that can make the call. Arthur Dent Lives -- Arthur Dent Lives talk 14:32, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
I couldn't find which facts are disputed and the {{ Update|inaccurate=yes|date=April 2013 }}template was nearly 4 years old. If there are disputed facts please feel free to list them on the talk page and reinstate the template. Kiore ( talk) 05:40, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
It says Qaddhafi loaned Farrakhan a billion, that can't be right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lambchowder ( talk • contribs) 19:06, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
User:Malik Shabazz just in case this wasn't a rhetorical question (who is Fareed M?), I suspect 'Fareed M' is a variant of 'Farad M' (which is a name SPLC gives for) Wallace D. Fard. Pincrete ( talk) 14:33, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
No mention of Islam anywhere in the lede, this is an Islamic sect or faction. As someone with little knowledge of NOI I am still none the wiser. 2A00:23C4:C001:F400:51A1:B2B5:5EDB:F2DC ( talk) 18:49, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
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Is the link between NoI and Scientology sufficiently strong to justify the Scientology Navbox? A single criticism seems very thin gruel on which to base such a connection. Pincrete ( talk) 20:25, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
@ Malik Shabazz: apologies, I hadn't noticed it was an editorial. National Review has an article stating the following:
The connection between the two groups goes far deeper than just a gala or a naming ceremony. One of the stars of Leah Remini’s docuseries, Aaron Smith-Levin, laid out the financial connection and the incentive for Nation of Islam members to become involved in the Church of Scientology, and vice versa. Smith-Levin explained to me:
"Louis Farrakhan is entitled to personally receive a 10% commission on all money NOI members pay for Scientology auditing and a 15% commission on all money NOI members pay for Scientology courses. I don’t know what Farrakhan’s compensation plan is within the NOI, but with ~40,000+ NOI members, the relationship between the NOI & the Church of Scientology, Farrakhan stands to personally earn an awful lot of cash." [5] Doug Weller talk 13:21, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
We seem to be using a mixture of 'the NOI' and 'NOI', mainly the former, but which is it? Is this a case like NATO, where the abbreviation has become so established that 'the' is redundant? I only noticed because an editor added 'the' a couple of times. Adjectival uses are obviously exempt. Pincrete ( talk) 10:16, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
I think that the word "the" is important to add to NOI because the abbreviation is not very familiar to readers like the way NATO would be. I think the "the" is necessary for coherence Bpunjani ( talk) 01:03, 11 November 2019 (UTC)Bpunjani
in my opinion, so I've taken the issue to WP:NORN. Doug Weller talk 17:15, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
I think the definition of hate group is necessary. After this, I think thinking about whether or not people of color can engage is racism and anti-semitism is important. There are a lot of people who would say that people of color cannot be a part of a hate group Bpunjani ( talk) 01:06, 11 November 2019 (UTC)Bpunjani
Rreagan007, the source you added certainly describes the NoI as a " new religious movement"- though that source and the WP article seem to allow a fairly broad definition of 'new' - seemingly post 1800s-ish. What I would question is whether MOST sources describe NoI thus - since the narrower definition of nrm is closer to post-WWII. I am European btw, so almost all US religious organisations seem 'new' to me, including the NoI, but I wonder whether that is the general term applied to them. Pincrete ( talk) 20:33, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
There is obvious anti-white racism within this page, and within the belief structure of The Nation is Islam, this page should have more links to Black Nationalism and Black Supremacy.
2A00:23C8:8580:1C00:5DC4:F0DB:A0A:2A9D ( talk) 16:41, 31 August 2020 (UTC)cripe
Why is there a "Not to be confused with ISIS" caption on the top of the page? Nobody sane thinks this. This just seems like hostile trolling and should be removed=. Its *decidedly* unwikipedian in nature 2001:44B8:6117:B100:D21:7F28:485B:395A ( talk) 00:30, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
Hi User:Pincrete (and whomever else may be reading). I thought it might be worth discussing this particular change, which expanded the opening sentence from describing the Nation as a "religious organization" to a "religious and political organization." I don't think the statement is wrong; clearly, the Nation expresses many political opinions about the state of the world. However, I wonder if this is perhaps necessary, given that virtually all religious organisations also express views with clear political ramifications. Our article on the Roman Catholic Church for instance does not start by describing it as a political organisation, and yet that Church has been deeply embedded in political issues for centuries (often in forms much more explicit that the Nation of Islam). Are we setting a double standard by describing the Nation as "political" so explicitly when we do not do the same for other religious organizations at Wikipedia? Midnightblueowl ( talk) 11:23, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
RFC tag removed ~ ToBeFree ( talk) 16:29, 14 October 2021 (UTC) RFC tag removed again ~ ToBeFree ( talk) 16:37, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
Prior to 2016, Nation of Islam (NoI) was a NPOV article that recognized NoI's hate group status in the opening paragraph. More recently it has morphed into a sales pitch. The two main authorities on hate groups in the United States, the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League are dismissed as "critics" rather than being recognized as reliable sources as they are in well written hate group articles such as the Ku Klux Klan. At least one police officer has been murdered since Wikipedia stop recognizing NoI as a hate group and started promoting it via a sales pitch. The NYT reports:
"Noah Green, the knife-wielding man killed after ramming his car into a checkpoint at the U.S. Capitol on Friday, was a troubled former college athlete whose life was disintegrating in the months leading up to a violent outburst that left one officer dead and another injured.
On the football field at Christopher Newport University in Virginia, Noah R. Green was No. 21, a dependable and good-natured, if soft-spoken, presence in the defensive backfield. Off the field, he was focused on Black economic empowerment and planned a career to help close the racial wealth gap.
By late March, after a bruising pandemic year that friends and family said left him isolated and mentally unmoored, Mr. Green’s life appeared increasingly to revolve around the Nation of Islam and its leader Louis Farrakhan, who has repeatedly promoted anti-Semitism." https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/05/us/politics/heres-what-we-know-about-the-man-behind-fridays-attack-on-capitol-hill.htm
Please restore the following sentence to the opening paragraph:
The NOI is tracked as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Gouncbeatduke ( talk) 11:53, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
I have removed the re-inserted RfC tag; an RfC needs a specific, neutral question that the community can answer. This section lacks both a question and neutrality regarding the article content. ~ ToBeFree ( talk) 16:37, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Guerrero0002.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 04:53, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
From what I've read they seem to completely reject a metaphysical god, and their view of the black man being god seems to be a metaphor, or atleast not god in the conventional, supernatural sense. Just wondering, seems not much has been written on the theology by reputable secondary/tertiary sources (or atleast that I can readily read atm). So, would this be considered a nontheistic religion or something else? Also, I see that this page already mentions some of their materialist beliefs but perhaps further elaboration would be better if possible. Thank you all. 69.120.198.52 ( talk) 03:18, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
This is the only hate group Wikipedia article where the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League are dismissed at "critics", in all other hate group articles they are treated as reliable sources. There is ZERO ethical difference between the KKK and the NoI; one is a white supremacist hate group, the other is a black supremacist hate group. Gouncbeatduke ( talk) 12:42, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
"Noah Green, the knife-wielding man killed after ramming his car into a checkpoint at the U.S. Capitol on Friday, was a troubled former college athlete whose life was disintegrating in the months leading up to a violent outburst that left one officer dead and another injured.
On the football field at Christopher Newport University in Virginia, Noah R. Green was No. 21, a dependable and good-natured, if soft-spoken, presence in the defensive backfield. Off the field, he was focused on Black economic empowerment and planned a career to help close the racial wealth gap.
By late March, after a bruising pandemic year that friends and family said left him isolated and mentally unmoored, Mr. Green’s life appeared increasingly to revolve around the Nation of Islam and its leader Louis Farrakhan, who has repeatedly promoted anti-Semitism." https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/05/us/politics/heres-what-we-know-about-the-man-behind-fridays-attack-on-capitol-hill.htm Gouncbeatduke ( talk) 22:38, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Nation of Islam (Akron, Ohio) Nation of Islam (Atlanta, Georgia) Nation of Islam (Austin, Texas) Nation of Islam (Birmingham, Alabama) Nation of Islam (Brooklyn, New York) Nation of Islam (Brunswick, Georgia) Nation of Islam (Camden, New Jersey) Nation of Islam (Charlotte, North Carolina) Nation of Islam (Chattanooga, Tennessee) Nation of Islam (Chicago, Illinois) Nation of Islam (Cleveland, Ohio) Nation of Islam (Columbia, South Carolina) Nation of Islam (Compton, California) Nation of Islam (Dallas, Texas) Nation of Islam (Dayton, Ohio) Nation of Islam (Denver, Colorado) Nation of Islam (Detroit, Michigan) Nation of Islam (Dorchester, Massachusetts) Nation of Islam (Durham, North Carolina) Nation of Islam (Fort Lauderdale, Florida) Nation of Islam (Fort Worth, Texas) Nation of Islam (Grand Rapids, Michigan) Nation of Islam (Greensboro, North Carolina) Nation of Islam (Greenville, South Carolina) Nation of Islam (Houston, Texas) Nation of Islam (Indianapolis, Indiana) Nation of Islam (Jacksonville, Florida) Nation of Islam (Kansas City, Missouri) Nation of Islam (Lexington, Kentucky) Nation of Islam (Los Angeles, California) Nation of Islam (Louisville, Kentucky) Nation of Islam (Memphis, Tennessee) Nation of Islam (Miami, Florida) Nation of Islam (Milwaukee, Wisconsin) Nation of Islam (Mobile, Alabama) Nation of Islam (Monroe, Louisiana) Nation of Islam (Montgomery, Alabama) Nation of Islam (New Orleans, Louisiana) Nation of Islam (New York, New York) Nation of Islam (Newark, New Jersey) Nation of Islam (Norfolk, Virginia) Nation of Islam (North Charleston, South Carolina) Nation of Islam (North Little Rock, Arkansas) Nation of Islam (Oakland, California) Nation of Islam (Oklahoma City, Oklahoma) Nation of Islam (Pensacola, Florida) Nation of Islam (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania) Nation of Islam (Phoenix, Arizona) Nation of Islam (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania) Nation of Islam (Plainfield, New Jersey) Nation of Islam (Richmond, Virginia) Nation of Islam (Rochester, New York) Nation of Islam (Rock Hill, South Carolina) Nation of Islam (San Antonio, Texas) Nation of Islam (San Diego, California) Nation of Islam (Shreveport, Louisiana) Nation of Islam (Springfield, Massachusetts) Nation of Islam (St. Louis, Missouri) Nation of Islam (St. Petersburg, Florida) Nation of Islam (Tampa, Florida) Nation of Islam (Toledo, Ohio) Nation of Islam (Trenton, New Jersey) Nation of Islam (Tulsa, Oklahoma) Nation of Islam (Washington, District of Columbia) Nation of Islam (Willingboro, New Jersey) Nation of Islam (Wilmington, Delaware) Nation of Islam (Wilmington, North Carolina) Nation of Islam (Winston-Salem, North Carolina)
Some of the statements made by Gouncbeatduke here are just factually untrue. They state that "The vast majority of reliable sources document that Nation of Islam is a hate group." This is nonsense. We have nearly 30 peer-reviewed sources cited in this article (and counting). None refer to the Nation of Islam as a "hate group," a term with little or no scholarly credibility; it is a pejorative term, not one used for actually understanding socio-political phenomena. The editor seems to believe that anything other than a highly hostile portrayal of the Nation at Wikipedia constitutes an "NoI sales pitch form". I believe that they fundamentally misunderstand what WP:NPOV actually means. As a result, their desired alterations to the article would be harmful to it and to Wikipedia's commitment to neutrality. Midnightblueowl ( talk) 08:14, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
Prior to 2016, Nation of Islam (NoI) was a NPOV article that recognized NoI's hate group status in the opening paragraph. More recently it has morphed into a sales pitch. The two main authorities on hate groups in the United States, the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League are dismissed as "critics" rather than being recognized as reliable sources as they are in well written hate group articles such as the Ku Klux Klan. SPL was the sole source cited for the opening paragraph of the KKK article prior to Oct. 25 2021.
RFC Question: Should the following be restored to the opening paragraph:
The NOI is tracked as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Gouncbeatduke ( talk) 13:33, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 20:22, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is more of a sales pitch than a Wikipedia article. In other articles on Hate Groups identified by the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League, the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League are used as reliable sources to refer to the group as a Hate Group in Wikipedia voice. Here, the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League are dismissed as critics. Please see the Ku Klux Klan for and example of a well written article on a Hate Group. Gouncbeatduke ( talk) 17:05, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League are dismissed as critics.How else should they be described? The purpose of the text "Its critics, including the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League", is to make the point that SPLC and AFD are not the only people to think that some of NoI's views on race and homosexuality are offensive. I would gladly remove the three opening words if people wanted, but the result would be to imply that ONLY SPLC and AFD have criticised NoI. Pincrete ( talk) 12:09, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
There was clearly no coconscious from the previous discussions, just the same two editors pushing for no change. Gouncbeatduke ( talk) 14:20, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
@ Midnightblueowl and Pincrete: I think this could be useful. [6] I know we already use Colley. Doug Weller talk 11:46, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Nation of Islam has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change Muhamad to Muhammad in the theology section 24.44.73.34 ( talk) 01:20, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
A large anti-Semitism notice should be placed at the top of this article in accordance with the large "Islamophobia" notices at the top of articles of organizations critical of Islam such as Stop Islamization of America. Also, since Wikipedia states unequivocally that " Counterjihad is an anti-Islamic,[1] islamophobic,[2][3][4] far-right,[1] and intellectual[5] political current" in the very first sentence, this article should state that "the Nation of Islam is an anti-Semitic, Judeophobic, far-left, and cult-like political current" in the very first sentence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jose.medez248 ( talk • contribs) 22:47, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
I don't understand what the complaint is. The third sentence of the article says the NoI is considered antisemitic. What do you want, flashing lights and balloons? — Malik Shabazz Talk/ Stalk 01:45, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
"Wikipedia's style manual." which is not created by the moderators or creators of wiki. and gaming the system is to be taken into consideration here. so yes, of course it does not matter. "other stuff exists" cannot also be used as an argument since its only used in creating or deleting a article. NOT having equality. equality itself is good. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.53.83.22 ( talk) 20:48, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
Should the fact that the Nation of Islam is designated a hate group by the SPLC be in the lead of the article? Biccat ( talk) 16:22, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
The “Its critics accuse it” phrase creates a false equivalence in the article lead. If we look at the better written Klu Klux Klan article, it simple states the Klu Klux Klan is a racist and anti-Semitic hate group based on the similar references of the Anti-Defamation League and the SPLC. It would be more accurate to do the same here. The “Its critics accuse it” phrase is weasel wording which produces the false impression that some legitimate third parties also exist that do not view the NOI as a racist and anti-Semitic hate group. There are no such legitimate third parties. -- Truthwillneverdie ( talk) 00:29, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 17:03, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
In the section Comparison with Traditional Islam of the Nation of Islam page, you say that NOI differs from Traditional Islam based on five points, all of which are false. Here's why
1. "Belief in one God (Allah)" NOI believe that there is only One God (Allah), and he came (to the blacks in America) in the person of Master Fard Muhammad. This is different from your statement that "NOI believes Wallace Fard was Allah". The difference is in the wording, it is misleading, obviously NOI don't believe that Wallace Fard is responsible for the creation of Heaven and Earth. It is imperative that you include "in the person of", otherwise the statement is false and it should not be listed as fact.
2. "Prayer: Traditional Muslims believe that the five daily prayers (salat) are mandatory, the NOI believes that they are not." This is simply untrue, the sources you have listed are not factual sources. Elijah Muhammad told his followers in his book titled " Muslim Daily Prayers" that the MINIMUM 5 daily prayers are mandatory and "necessary for spiritual advancement". If you need proof you can order the book from the NOI website, or I will gladly photocopy the proof and send them to you.
3. "Fasting in the Islamic month of Ramadhan". NOI Muslims do indeed fast along with all other Muslims during the holy month of Ramadhan. The only option is mainly meant for new converts who have the option to fast during the month of December instead due to the shorter days and to get them away from celebrating Christmas. You may believe that this is unacceptable but the Quran says that out of Allah's mercy, a sick person or a traveler was instructed to fast a number of days equal to those he missed during Ramadan. NOI interpret being sick or on a journey as both physical and spiritual, thus a person on a spiritual journey to become a Muslim who is not yet strong enough (sick) can fast during December instead. All in all, NOI indeed practice Ramadhan, period. Therefore your statement that "NOI holds that this is optional" is absolutely false.
4. "Compulsory Charity (zakaat)" The NOI do indeed practice charity. Not only by contributing monetary funds to benefit the community, but by contributing time to go into troubled communities and try to stifle drug addiction, gangs, and other ills.
5. "Pilgrimage (Hajj)" You stated that the "NOI holds that this is optional". This is again simply untrue. The NOI believe like every other Muslim that Hajj is mandatory at least once in a life time, Insha'Allah.
As you can see, this entire section is false and this is why it needs to be changed. If you are still not convinced then I would be happy to prove it to you. Thank you for listening, RashidanScholar127 ( talk) 16:08, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
Since 2010, Minister Louis Farrakhan has controversially taken to teaching Dianetics after being audited extensively by Scientology Reverend Alfreddie Johnson(a personal friend of Farrakhan). He is now teaching Hubbard as being one of his heroes and some Scientology doctrines. You can search "Farrakhan Scientology" on youtube and you will see sermons where he has taken to teaching the doctrines of L Ron Hubbard. Currently they are establishing a "Nation Of Islam Dianetics Center" in Chicago, and the Nation of Islam leadership are now ALL required to be schooled in Dianetics. I believe this warrants the addition of a "Nation Of Islam's relationship with Scientology/Dianetics" section, along with the article's potential inclusion into the Scientology portal. Perhaps a paragraph bringing either the history section, or the Controversy section(where it would also fit), up to date to include this drift to Scientology would be enough. Colliric ( talk) 17:34, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
But may have sounded awkward in that location. However this use of "embrace" repeatedly and unusually also makes for awkward prose and stilted reading, let's use some synonyms for the encyclopedia rather than sounding like a campaign. --( AfadsBad ( talk) 18:05, 6 October 2013 (UTC))
The last two sentence in the first paragraph on NOI beliefs states, "Abortions are strongly discouraged except in the cases where the mother's life is in danger. However, the Nation of Islam argues that because of the unique experience of the oppression and degradation of slavery, Elijah Muhammad used unique methods for introducing Islam to his people."
I'm confused. Is the last sentence about abortion? I don't see the connection and there's no footnote to clarify it. What does the "however" signify?
69.204.91.53 ( talk) 16:17, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Manning Marable's "Malcolm X: A Life of Reinvention" is widely considered the most authoritative and full biography of Malcolm's life. In it Marable documents, as an academic historian, through various sources, that the Nation of Islam was deeply involved and ultimately responsible gor Malcolms assassination. While many details are unclear due to the FBI still keeping many files confidential it is known that all of the purpetrators were NOI and that the leadership had actively spoken of the need to kill Malcolm. There were also previously documented attempts on his life and documented cases of murder of other NOI members. The NOI had a history of severe internal control and violence. This should appear in the article perhaps under a seperate heading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.199.168.73 ( talk) 03:24, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
In the section Comparison with traditional Islam, so of the item are 100% wrong.
Someone is literally putting lies that are easily check into Wikipedia! Propaganda Editors are at it again. SMH.
I'm making the whole Article as NPOV.
How does the NOI reconcile the historical fact that Islamic slave traders sold their ancestors into bondage? Why would they take on the religion of their oppressors? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.176.56.225 ( talk) 02:37, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
I restored the statement that the movement is/was referred to as the Black Muslims. This term isn't used much since the 1970s, but certainly was a name used for the Nation especially in the prisons, even if it's not used much now. [1] generic_hipster 11:43, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
References
This page contains a translation of Nation of Islam from fr.wikipedia. |
86.137.60.115 ( talk) 17:21, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
That portion of the entry is inadequate. No mention at all of the explicit racism of NOI? Dare I say this article is a whitewash? Nicmart ( talk) 18:52, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
It is also inaccurate because it cannot be similar to mainstream Islam which believes in the same cosmology as Christianity and Judaism, Adam and Eve and the garden of Eden, etc. The NOI is a completely different imagination of creation and people's interaction with God. I have edited several times that become "fixed" back to the same nonsense that the NOI is similar to mainstream Islam. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
73.172.235.204 (
talk) 18:31, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
The group should be described as a new religious movement
SAGE knowledge [2] Encyclopedia of Social Media and Politics ( http://dx.doi.org/10.4135/9781452244723.n356)
"The Nation of Islam is known as a religion, empowerment organization, new religious movement, or black nationalist/separatist group, depending on the speaker and audience"
Calling the group an "Islamic religious movement" is a POV issue, given the section on divergence from mainstream Sunni Islam. WP:LEAD says to summarise the article. -- Callinus ( talk) 08:23, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Islam believes in the creation of the universe in agreement with Judaism and Christianity. The NOI has a completely different idea of how the world was made, and is not fundamentally related to mainstream Islam. Claiming the status does not change the fact they have fabricated their own beliefs from scratch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.172.235.204 ( talk) 18:34, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
The article is incorrect on wikipedia. The NOI should be defined as a new religious movement that claims to be associated with Islam but has no factual basis for that relationship and a completely alternate creation myth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.172.235.204 ( talk) 18:37, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
Arthur Dent Lives, I have largely reverted your edits for two reasons. The first is neutrality, in the context of a belief, this means that we do not define a belief according to whether it conforms to another belief. Were we to do so, Anglicanism and Protestantism would be simply defined as 'heresies' (the RC position, and I even know of a Jewish academic who thinks all Christianity is a Jewish heresy). Ordinarily (and in this instance), we present the similarities and differences neutrally, without implying that either is 'fake'.
The second reason is that the source you used is poor, is Michael Young a noted Islamic scholar? Does he have authority to speak on behalf of 'mainstream Islam', or should this simply be treated as his opinion? I am prepared to believe that many Muslims see NoI as a 'heresy' or abberation, for that reason I left part of your text (Because of these differences, the Nation of Islam is not recognized by some mainstream Muslims. your ref), despite the poor sourcing.
Even with a controversial subject like Creationism, we ordinarily present the belief first, and then note that mainstream science largely dismisses this belief as unscientific, we don't use the dismissal to replace or characterise the belief. There may be stronger Islamic sources dismissing NoI, if so that would justify a stronger 'dismissal', however it could never justify dismissing NoI beliefs altogether. Pincrete ( talk) 19:27, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
Pincrete, I see what you are saying and I am somewhat new at editing wikipedia so I am not going to argue about the material. I tried to find better sources but none seem to exist in this case. Scholarly work exploring the perception of the NOI by other Muslim groups seems to be very scarce. My related work in Detroit has brushed up against the idea that Muslim Americans have distanced themselves from the NOI, but I have nothing published or seen anything on that in specific. This may be an ongoing issue for any topics related to Islam, as there is no central authority in the religion such as a Pope who can definitively make a decree on such a thing. Anyone could claim the status without embracing the core message of the religion. Without a rooting in the Christian and Judaism traditions, as Islam followed, it is difficult to believe that a religion can claim the relationship with Islam just by using the name and some aspects of the practice. Maybe we can figure out a way to improve wikipedia's approach to this type of issue, a "teach the controversy" type approach to discuss the possibilities in the absence of a referee that can make the call. Arthur Dent Lives -- Arthur Dent Lives talk 14:32, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
I couldn't find which facts are disputed and the {{ Update|inaccurate=yes|date=April 2013 }}template was nearly 4 years old. If there are disputed facts please feel free to list them on the talk page and reinstate the template. Kiore ( talk) 05:40, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
It says Qaddhafi loaned Farrakhan a billion, that can't be right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lambchowder ( talk • contribs) 19:06, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
User:Malik Shabazz just in case this wasn't a rhetorical question (who is Fareed M?), I suspect 'Fareed M' is a variant of 'Farad M' (which is a name SPLC gives for) Wallace D. Fard. Pincrete ( talk) 14:33, 12 March 2017 (UTC)
No mention of Islam anywhere in the lede, this is an Islamic sect or faction. As someone with little knowledge of NOI I am still none the wiser. 2A00:23C4:C001:F400:51A1:B2B5:5EDB:F2DC ( talk) 18:49, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
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Is the link between NoI and Scientology sufficiently strong to justify the Scientology Navbox? A single criticism seems very thin gruel on which to base such a connection. Pincrete ( talk) 20:25, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
@ Malik Shabazz: apologies, I hadn't noticed it was an editorial. National Review has an article stating the following:
The connection between the two groups goes far deeper than just a gala or a naming ceremony. One of the stars of Leah Remini’s docuseries, Aaron Smith-Levin, laid out the financial connection and the incentive for Nation of Islam members to become involved in the Church of Scientology, and vice versa. Smith-Levin explained to me:
"Louis Farrakhan is entitled to personally receive a 10% commission on all money NOI members pay for Scientology auditing and a 15% commission on all money NOI members pay for Scientology courses. I don’t know what Farrakhan’s compensation plan is within the NOI, but with ~40,000+ NOI members, the relationship between the NOI & the Church of Scientology, Farrakhan stands to personally earn an awful lot of cash." [5] Doug Weller talk 13:21, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
We seem to be using a mixture of 'the NOI' and 'NOI', mainly the former, but which is it? Is this a case like NATO, where the abbreviation has become so established that 'the' is redundant? I only noticed because an editor added 'the' a couple of times. Adjectival uses are obviously exempt. Pincrete ( talk) 10:16, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
I think that the word "the" is important to add to NOI because the abbreviation is not very familiar to readers like the way NATO would be. I think the "the" is necessary for coherence Bpunjani ( talk) 01:03, 11 November 2019 (UTC)Bpunjani
in my opinion, so I've taken the issue to WP:NORN. Doug Weller talk 17:15, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
I think the definition of hate group is necessary. After this, I think thinking about whether or not people of color can engage is racism and anti-semitism is important. There are a lot of people who would say that people of color cannot be a part of a hate group Bpunjani ( talk) 01:06, 11 November 2019 (UTC)Bpunjani
Rreagan007, the source you added certainly describes the NoI as a " new religious movement"- though that source and the WP article seem to allow a fairly broad definition of 'new' - seemingly post 1800s-ish. What I would question is whether MOST sources describe NoI thus - since the narrower definition of nrm is closer to post-WWII. I am European btw, so almost all US religious organisations seem 'new' to me, including the NoI, but I wonder whether that is the general term applied to them. Pincrete ( talk) 20:33, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
There is obvious anti-white racism within this page, and within the belief structure of The Nation is Islam, this page should have more links to Black Nationalism and Black Supremacy.
2A00:23C8:8580:1C00:5DC4:F0DB:A0A:2A9D ( talk) 16:41, 31 August 2020 (UTC)cripe
Why is there a "Not to be confused with ISIS" caption on the top of the page? Nobody sane thinks this. This just seems like hostile trolling and should be removed=. Its *decidedly* unwikipedian in nature 2001:44B8:6117:B100:D21:7F28:485B:395A ( talk) 00:30, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
Hi User:Pincrete (and whomever else may be reading). I thought it might be worth discussing this particular change, which expanded the opening sentence from describing the Nation as a "religious organization" to a "religious and political organization." I don't think the statement is wrong; clearly, the Nation expresses many political opinions about the state of the world. However, I wonder if this is perhaps necessary, given that virtually all religious organisations also express views with clear political ramifications. Our article on the Roman Catholic Church for instance does not start by describing it as a political organisation, and yet that Church has been deeply embedded in political issues for centuries (often in forms much more explicit that the Nation of Islam). Are we setting a double standard by describing the Nation as "political" so explicitly when we do not do the same for other religious organizations at Wikipedia? Midnightblueowl ( talk) 11:23, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
RFC tag removed ~ ToBeFree ( talk) 16:29, 14 October 2021 (UTC) RFC tag removed again ~ ToBeFree ( talk) 16:37, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
Prior to 2016, Nation of Islam (NoI) was a NPOV article that recognized NoI's hate group status in the opening paragraph. More recently it has morphed into a sales pitch. The two main authorities on hate groups in the United States, the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League are dismissed as "critics" rather than being recognized as reliable sources as they are in well written hate group articles such as the Ku Klux Klan. At least one police officer has been murdered since Wikipedia stop recognizing NoI as a hate group and started promoting it via a sales pitch. The NYT reports:
"Noah Green, the knife-wielding man killed after ramming his car into a checkpoint at the U.S. Capitol on Friday, was a troubled former college athlete whose life was disintegrating in the months leading up to a violent outburst that left one officer dead and another injured.
On the football field at Christopher Newport University in Virginia, Noah R. Green was No. 21, a dependable and good-natured, if soft-spoken, presence in the defensive backfield. Off the field, he was focused on Black economic empowerment and planned a career to help close the racial wealth gap.
By late March, after a bruising pandemic year that friends and family said left him isolated and mentally unmoored, Mr. Green’s life appeared increasingly to revolve around the Nation of Islam and its leader Louis Farrakhan, who has repeatedly promoted anti-Semitism." https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/05/us/politics/heres-what-we-know-about-the-man-behind-fridays-attack-on-capitol-hill.htm
Please restore the following sentence to the opening paragraph:
The NOI is tracked as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Gouncbeatduke ( talk) 11:53, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
I have removed the re-inserted RfC tag; an RfC needs a specific, neutral question that the community can answer. This section lacks both a question and neutrality regarding the article content. ~ ToBeFree ( talk) 16:37, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Guerrero0002.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 04:53, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
From what I've read they seem to completely reject a metaphysical god, and their view of the black man being god seems to be a metaphor, or atleast not god in the conventional, supernatural sense. Just wondering, seems not much has been written on the theology by reputable secondary/tertiary sources (or atleast that I can readily read atm). So, would this be considered a nontheistic religion or something else? Also, I see that this page already mentions some of their materialist beliefs but perhaps further elaboration would be better if possible. Thank you all. 69.120.198.52 ( talk) 03:18, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
This is the only hate group Wikipedia article where the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League are dismissed at "critics", in all other hate group articles they are treated as reliable sources. There is ZERO ethical difference between the KKK and the NoI; one is a white supremacist hate group, the other is a black supremacist hate group. Gouncbeatduke ( talk) 12:42, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
"Noah Green, the knife-wielding man killed after ramming his car into a checkpoint at the U.S. Capitol on Friday, was a troubled former college athlete whose life was disintegrating in the months leading up to a violent outburst that left one officer dead and another injured.
On the football field at Christopher Newport University in Virginia, Noah R. Green was No. 21, a dependable and good-natured, if soft-spoken, presence in the defensive backfield. Off the field, he was focused on Black economic empowerment and planned a career to help close the racial wealth gap.
By late March, after a bruising pandemic year that friends and family said left him isolated and mentally unmoored, Mr. Green’s life appeared increasingly to revolve around the Nation of Islam and its leader Louis Farrakhan, who has repeatedly promoted anti-Semitism." https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/05/us/politics/heres-what-we-know-about-the-man-behind-fridays-attack-on-capitol-hill.htm Gouncbeatduke ( talk) 22:38, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
Nation of Islam (Akron, Ohio) Nation of Islam (Atlanta, Georgia) Nation of Islam (Austin, Texas) Nation of Islam (Birmingham, Alabama) Nation of Islam (Brooklyn, New York) Nation of Islam (Brunswick, Georgia) Nation of Islam (Camden, New Jersey) Nation of Islam (Charlotte, North Carolina) Nation of Islam (Chattanooga, Tennessee) Nation of Islam (Chicago, Illinois) Nation of Islam (Cleveland, Ohio) Nation of Islam (Columbia, South Carolina) Nation of Islam (Compton, California) Nation of Islam (Dallas, Texas) Nation of Islam (Dayton, Ohio) Nation of Islam (Denver, Colorado) Nation of Islam (Detroit, Michigan) Nation of Islam (Dorchester, Massachusetts) Nation of Islam (Durham, North Carolina) Nation of Islam (Fort Lauderdale, Florida) Nation of Islam (Fort Worth, Texas) Nation of Islam (Grand Rapids, Michigan) Nation of Islam (Greensboro, North Carolina) Nation of Islam (Greenville, South Carolina) Nation of Islam (Houston, Texas) Nation of Islam (Indianapolis, Indiana) Nation of Islam (Jacksonville, Florida) Nation of Islam (Kansas City, Missouri) Nation of Islam (Lexington, Kentucky) Nation of Islam (Los Angeles, California) Nation of Islam (Louisville, Kentucky) Nation of Islam (Memphis, Tennessee) Nation of Islam (Miami, Florida) Nation of Islam (Milwaukee, Wisconsin) Nation of Islam (Mobile, Alabama) Nation of Islam (Monroe, Louisiana) Nation of Islam (Montgomery, Alabama) Nation of Islam (New Orleans, Louisiana) Nation of Islam (New York, New York) Nation of Islam (Newark, New Jersey) Nation of Islam (Norfolk, Virginia) Nation of Islam (North Charleston, South Carolina) Nation of Islam (North Little Rock, Arkansas) Nation of Islam (Oakland, California) Nation of Islam (Oklahoma City, Oklahoma) Nation of Islam (Pensacola, Florida) Nation of Islam (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania) Nation of Islam (Phoenix, Arizona) Nation of Islam (Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania) Nation of Islam (Plainfield, New Jersey) Nation of Islam (Richmond, Virginia) Nation of Islam (Rochester, New York) Nation of Islam (Rock Hill, South Carolina) Nation of Islam (San Antonio, Texas) Nation of Islam (San Diego, California) Nation of Islam (Shreveport, Louisiana) Nation of Islam (Springfield, Massachusetts) Nation of Islam (St. Louis, Missouri) Nation of Islam (St. Petersburg, Florida) Nation of Islam (Tampa, Florida) Nation of Islam (Toledo, Ohio) Nation of Islam (Trenton, New Jersey) Nation of Islam (Tulsa, Oklahoma) Nation of Islam (Washington, District of Columbia) Nation of Islam (Willingboro, New Jersey) Nation of Islam (Wilmington, Delaware) Nation of Islam (Wilmington, North Carolina) Nation of Islam (Winston-Salem, North Carolina)
Some of the statements made by Gouncbeatduke here are just factually untrue. They state that "The vast majority of reliable sources document that Nation of Islam is a hate group." This is nonsense. We have nearly 30 peer-reviewed sources cited in this article (and counting). None refer to the Nation of Islam as a "hate group," a term with little or no scholarly credibility; it is a pejorative term, not one used for actually understanding socio-political phenomena. The editor seems to believe that anything other than a highly hostile portrayal of the Nation at Wikipedia constitutes an "NoI sales pitch form". I believe that they fundamentally misunderstand what WP:NPOV actually means. As a result, their desired alterations to the article would be harmful to it and to Wikipedia's commitment to neutrality. Midnightblueowl ( talk) 08:14, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
Prior to 2016, Nation of Islam (NoI) was a NPOV article that recognized NoI's hate group status in the opening paragraph. More recently it has morphed into a sales pitch. The two main authorities on hate groups in the United States, the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League are dismissed as "critics" rather than being recognized as reliable sources as they are in well written hate group articles such as the Ku Klux Klan. SPL was the sole source cited for the opening paragraph of the KKK article prior to Oct. 25 2021.
RFC Question: Should the following be restored to the opening paragraph:
The NOI is tracked as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Gouncbeatduke ( talk) 13:33, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 20:22, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is more of a sales pitch than a Wikipedia article. In other articles on Hate Groups identified by the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League, the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League are used as reliable sources to refer to the group as a Hate Group in Wikipedia voice. Here, the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League are dismissed as critics. Please see the Ku Klux Klan for and example of a well written article on a Hate Group. Gouncbeatduke ( talk) 17:05, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League are dismissed as critics.How else should they be described? The purpose of the text "Its critics, including the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation League", is to make the point that SPLC and AFD are not the only people to think that some of NoI's views on race and homosexuality are offensive. I would gladly remove the three opening words if people wanted, but the result would be to imply that ONLY SPLC and AFD have criticised NoI. Pincrete ( talk) 12:09, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
There was clearly no coconscious from the previous discussions, just the same two editors pushing for no change. Gouncbeatduke ( talk) 14:20, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
@ Midnightblueowl and Pincrete: I think this could be useful. [6] I know we already use Colley. Doug Weller talk 11:46, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Nation of Islam has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change Muhamad to Muhammad in the theology section 24.44.73.34 ( talk) 01:20, 4 April 2022 (UTC)