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Only an idiot could write something like that! There is no neutral point of view. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.216.253.16 ( talk) 16:28, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Image:TIMEmagazine.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 06:20, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
The editing of 201.26.96.216 is regrettable, though rectifiable. Being a controversial figure in Serbia, a section on why she is so must remain. 220.245.209.55 ( talk) 02:24, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
If the Controversy section is to remain it should reflect the different sides of the controversy. I've included various mentions and references of some of Kandic's actions in pursuit of the truth over the last fifteen years or so that have made her so controversial in certain circles.
Opbeith (
talk) 21:21, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
There is a big problem with this article, providing only one part of the story about Natasa Kandic. On the other side there are mere political analysts that mark her as a paid tool for propaganda, to justify 1999 bombing of Serbia by NATO, by slightly increasing deaths on Albanian side and reduce deaths of NATO bombing. It's too late now in EU, but later I can find reliable sources for it.-- 46.240.146.100 ( talk) 07:35, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Calling Mesic a Ustashi suggests that he is a follower of the wartime fascist movement. This is an incendiaty accusation and I suggest it be toned down. It reflects one point of view and has no proof to back it up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.109.9.199 ( talk) 02:12, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
This article is NOT the most appropriate forum to debate the Yugoslav wars - it is an article about Natasa Kandic.
Further, edits that have removed references to the Stolic family etc are not welcome - this is part of Kandic's history, and must remain on the page unless someone can disprove the two Danas articles and say it never happened.
It seems to me that irrespective of Seselj's customary foul-mouthed insensitivity, the accusation that Kandic would be involved with Ustashe is libellous, so I've moved this section from the Article text to here for discussion of its deletion.
The fact that Seselj has written the book is meaningless. The fact that Serbian Radical Party members sold and gave away copies of the book in the Serbian Parliament as part of what a group of NGOs alleged was a campaign of harassment of Natasa Kandic and others, aimed at distracting attention from Serbian Radical Party involvement in ethnic cleansing in Vojvodina during 1991, is meaningful.
http://www.yihr.org/index.php?id=251 Is there any other significant reason for mentioning this book?
Opbeith (
talk) 22:11, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
References
I propose the following revision of the "Controversy" section to bring the text together a bit more coherently and to render the directly expressed criticism in a more neutral reporting style. She is a controversial figure in Serbia and I trust this wording provides an adequate account of the controversy, reflecting her fairly uncompromising views and the intense response they often provoke.
"== Controversy ==
In her native Serbia, Kandić has remained a highly controversial figure. Kandić has been described as being "like an annoying itch nationalists can't quite reach," having "been there at almost every step, listening and scribbling". Her view is that "if you want to establish a certain system of values where the rule of law is paramount, the law must be applied to those who broke it. The truth must come out." [1].
This truth, it is claimed, is particularly discomforting for Serbs, as Serb forces were responsible for most of the civilian deaths during the 1990s from "ethnic cleansing" operations in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo. [1] The discomforting truth included the "smoking gun" video" [2] obtained by Kandić that showed Serb paramilitaries executing six Bosnian Muslim prisoners near Trnovo, providing proof of Serbia's role in the Srebrenica genocide, the worst massacre in Europe since the second world war. [1]
Throughout the war in Kosovo, she travelled back and forth across Serbia, providing information to the outside world about massive human rights violations being committed by police and paramilitary groups. The evidence she gathered has been vital to the preparation of indictments by the International Criminal Court for the Former Yugoslavia in the Hague [3]. However her Serbian critics accuse her of ignoring the plight of hundreds of thousands of Serb refugees and internally displaced persons (IDP) from the Yugoslav wars while campaigning energetically for the rights of refugees and war victims of other ethnicities.
Antagonism towards her in Serbia and among Serbs elsewhere has been exacerbated by the perception that opponents of the Serbs and other unsympathetic organisations and media have drawn attention to her and her work for "propaganda" purposes, for example when Time Magazine declared her to be one of their 36 European Heroes of 2003 [4].
Her opinions as well as her work have aroused controversy. In June 2003, she told relatives of the murdered Stolić family, Serbian residents of Obilić, that "the crime was not committed by Albanian extremists, but by extremists on both sides", and was ejected from their property. [5] [6]
In an opinion piece in The Guardian on May 9, 2007, she blamed the departure of the Krajina Serbs from Croatia on orders from their leaders on the territorial designs of the Serbian political elite rather than on the Croat military Operation Storm. [7] Her support of Croatian President Stjepan Mesić, whom she described as a "proven anti-fascist in both word and act", was also unpopular.
In February 2008 she attracted considerable criticism in Serbia for attending Kosovo's declaration of independence, viewed by many Serbians as a unilateral declaration of secession from Serbia. [8]
Nevertheless Kandić insists that she does not feel that she is in a minority, citing the many highly professional police officers who have provided her with most of her information. In 2005 she observed that "one day it will be different", but those responsible for the very things she spoke about had the loudest voice [1].
martinennalsaward.org
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Today as in the past, it is the people who pay the price for Serbian political elites' territorial claims and are forced to leave their homes with few bundles, as was the case with the Serbs from Croatia in August 1995.
"
Opbeith ( talk) 08:23, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
Incidentally, does anyone know how to contain a reference list within a specific section? Opbeith ( talk) 08:25, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
I removed the statement "Serb forces were responsible for most of the civilian deaths during the 1990s from "ethnic cleansing" operations in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo" because the source, an interview by Ed MacKenzie of Kandic, actually contains the quote "Serb forces were responsible for most of the 250,000 civilian deaths in the 1990s from "ethnic cleansing" operations in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo." The source's claim of "250,000 civilian deaths" has been seriously discredited. See, for example, the ICTY's own study on the number of killings and disappearances from the Bosnian War, which concludes a total of 42,000 civilians from all sides of the conflict were killed or missing. The conflicts in Slovenia, Croatia, and Kosovo had significantly fewer casualties than the Bosnian War. The claim of 250,000 civilians killed is way off, and casts doubt on the entire statement as a statement of established fact. -- 76.193.18.34 ( talk) 17:41, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
Some of the claims in the controversy section appear to be thinly sourced or not sourced, and I'm working to modify that section accordingly. Can someone with knowledge of Serbian language (and also which Serbian press agencies WP considers reliable sources) add better sources for these claims? I don't want to "whitewash" the controversy here, but I hate to leave in negative claims about a living person without sources. Thanks all! -- Khazar ( talk) 02:28, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
References
The accusation that Kandic "outlandishly focused on Serbs" obviously needs a high-quality source. Even then, it's questionable whether it belongs in the lead paragraph. Is this the way most sources internationally report on Kandic? It didn't seem to be when I did my research.
You can read Wikipedia policies about sourcing at WP:BLP and WP:RS. Please note that Wikipedia itself is not a reliable source for purposes of citation. Also, please don't mark important edits as minor; minor edits are mostly for correcting typos and other noncontroversial material. Thanks and all best, -- Khazar2 ( talk) 12:09, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Only an idiot could write something like that! There is no neutral point of view. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.216.253.16 ( talk) 16:28, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Image:TIMEmagazine.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 06:20, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
The editing of 201.26.96.216 is regrettable, though rectifiable. Being a controversial figure in Serbia, a section on why she is so must remain. 220.245.209.55 ( talk) 02:24, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
If the Controversy section is to remain it should reflect the different sides of the controversy. I've included various mentions and references of some of Kandic's actions in pursuit of the truth over the last fifteen years or so that have made her so controversial in certain circles.
Opbeith (
talk) 21:21, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
There is a big problem with this article, providing only one part of the story about Natasa Kandic. On the other side there are mere political analysts that mark her as a paid tool for propaganda, to justify 1999 bombing of Serbia by NATO, by slightly increasing deaths on Albanian side and reduce deaths of NATO bombing. It's too late now in EU, but later I can find reliable sources for it.-- 46.240.146.100 ( talk) 07:35, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Calling Mesic a Ustashi suggests that he is a follower of the wartime fascist movement. This is an incendiaty accusation and I suggest it be toned down. It reflects one point of view and has no proof to back it up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.109.9.199 ( talk) 02:12, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
This article is NOT the most appropriate forum to debate the Yugoslav wars - it is an article about Natasa Kandic.
Further, edits that have removed references to the Stolic family etc are not welcome - this is part of Kandic's history, and must remain on the page unless someone can disprove the two Danas articles and say it never happened.
It seems to me that irrespective of Seselj's customary foul-mouthed insensitivity, the accusation that Kandic would be involved with Ustashe is libellous, so I've moved this section from the Article text to here for discussion of its deletion.
The fact that Seselj has written the book is meaningless. The fact that Serbian Radical Party members sold and gave away copies of the book in the Serbian Parliament as part of what a group of NGOs alleged was a campaign of harassment of Natasa Kandic and others, aimed at distracting attention from Serbian Radical Party involvement in ethnic cleansing in Vojvodina during 1991, is meaningful.
http://www.yihr.org/index.php?id=251 Is there any other significant reason for mentioning this book?
Opbeith (
talk) 22:11, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
References
I propose the following revision of the "Controversy" section to bring the text together a bit more coherently and to render the directly expressed criticism in a more neutral reporting style. She is a controversial figure in Serbia and I trust this wording provides an adequate account of the controversy, reflecting her fairly uncompromising views and the intense response they often provoke.
"== Controversy ==
In her native Serbia, Kandić has remained a highly controversial figure. Kandić has been described as being "like an annoying itch nationalists can't quite reach," having "been there at almost every step, listening and scribbling". Her view is that "if you want to establish a certain system of values where the rule of law is paramount, the law must be applied to those who broke it. The truth must come out." [1].
This truth, it is claimed, is particularly discomforting for Serbs, as Serb forces were responsible for most of the civilian deaths during the 1990s from "ethnic cleansing" operations in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo. [1] The discomforting truth included the "smoking gun" video" [2] obtained by Kandić that showed Serb paramilitaries executing six Bosnian Muslim prisoners near Trnovo, providing proof of Serbia's role in the Srebrenica genocide, the worst massacre in Europe since the second world war. [1]
Throughout the war in Kosovo, she travelled back and forth across Serbia, providing information to the outside world about massive human rights violations being committed by police and paramilitary groups. The evidence she gathered has been vital to the preparation of indictments by the International Criminal Court for the Former Yugoslavia in the Hague [3]. However her Serbian critics accuse her of ignoring the plight of hundreds of thousands of Serb refugees and internally displaced persons (IDP) from the Yugoslav wars while campaigning energetically for the rights of refugees and war victims of other ethnicities.
Antagonism towards her in Serbia and among Serbs elsewhere has been exacerbated by the perception that opponents of the Serbs and other unsympathetic organisations and media have drawn attention to her and her work for "propaganda" purposes, for example when Time Magazine declared her to be one of their 36 European Heroes of 2003 [4].
Her opinions as well as her work have aroused controversy. In June 2003, she told relatives of the murdered Stolić family, Serbian residents of Obilić, that "the crime was not committed by Albanian extremists, but by extremists on both sides", and was ejected from their property. [5] [6]
In an opinion piece in The Guardian on May 9, 2007, she blamed the departure of the Krajina Serbs from Croatia on orders from their leaders on the territorial designs of the Serbian political elite rather than on the Croat military Operation Storm. [7] Her support of Croatian President Stjepan Mesić, whom she described as a "proven anti-fascist in both word and act", was also unpopular.
In February 2008 she attracted considerable criticism in Serbia for attending Kosovo's declaration of independence, viewed by many Serbians as a unilateral declaration of secession from Serbia. [8]
Nevertheless Kandić insists that she does not feel that she is in a minority, citing the many highly professional police officers who have provided her with most of her information. In 2005 she observed that "one day it will be different", but those responsible for the very things she spoke about had the loudest voice [1].
martinennalsaward.org
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Today as in the past, it is the people who pay the price for Serbian political elites' territorial claims and are forced to leave their homes with few bundles, as was the case with the Serbs from Croatia in August 1995.
"
Opbeith ( talk) 08:23, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
Incidentally, does anyone know how to contain a reference list within a specific section? Opbeith ( talk) 08:25, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
I removed the statement "Serb forces were responsible for most of the civilian deaths during the 1990s from "ethnic cleansing" operations in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo" because the source, an interview by Ed MacKenzie of Kandic, actually contains the quote "Serb forces were responsible for most of the 250,000 civilian deaths in the 1990s from "ethnic cleansing" operations in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo." The source's claim of "250,000 civilian deaths" has been seriously discredited. See, for example, the ICTY's own study on the number of killings and disappearances from the Bosnian War, which concludes a total of 42,000 civilians from all sides of the conflict were killed or missing. The conflicts in Slovenia, Croatia, and Kosovo had significantly fewer casualties than the Bosnian War. The claim of 250,000 civilians killed is way off, and casts doubt on the entire statement as a statement of established fact. -- 76.193.18.34 ( talk) 17:41, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
Some of the claims in the controversy section appear to be thinly sourced or not sourced, and I'm working to modify that section accordingly. Can someone with knowledge of Serbian language (and also which Serbian press agencies WP considers reliable sources) add better sources for these claims? I don't want to "whitewash" the controversy here, but I hate to leave in negative claims about a living person without sources. Thanks all! -- Khazar ( talk) 02:28, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
References
The accusation that Kandic "outlandishly focused on Serbs" obviously needs a high-quality source. Even then, it's questionable whether it belongs in the lead paragraph. Is this the way most sources internationally report on Kandic? It didn't seem to be when I did my research.
You can read Wikipedia policies about sourcing at WP:BLP and WP:RS. Please note that Wikipedia itself is not a reliable source for purposes of citation. Also, please don't mark important edits as minor; minor edits are mostly for correcting typos and other noncontroversial material. Thanks and all best, -- Khazar2 ( talk) 12:09, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
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