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User:CJK has added the following prelude section, with citations to primary sources from 1803. The Wikipedia rules require it be based on reliable secondary sources, of which there are many for this important development. The proposed text itself is flawed, because it does not explain the decision-making process of the British leadership In the start of the war. It focuses on 1803 and the breakdown of the Treaty of Amiens But does not say why Britain wanted to go to war in the first place. Indeed you seem to suggest that it war was primarily designed to cover the embarrassment of the Addington administration about a incorrect announcement. A much better explanation is available in Schroeder, The transformation of European politics 1763-1848 pp 231ff, which blames Napoleon primarily for the breakdown of Amiens. Rjensen ( talk) 15:38, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Britain was irritated by a number of French actions following the Treaty of Amiens. Bonaparte had annexed Piedmont and Elba, made himself President of the Italian Republic, a state in northern Italy that France had set up, and failed to evacuate Holland. France continued to interfere with British trade despite peace having been made and complained about Britain harboring certain individuals and not cracking down on their anti-French press. [1]: 220–239
Malta had been occupied by Britain during the war and had been subject to a complex arrangement in the 10th article of the Treaty of Amiens where it was to be restored to the Knights of St. John with a Neapolitan garrison and placed under the guarantee of third powers. However, the weakening of the Knights of St. John by the confiscation of their assets in France and Spain along with delays in obtaining guarantees prevented the British from evacuating it after three months as stipulated in the treaty. [1]: 239–247
The Helvetian Republic had been set up by France when they invaded Switzerland in 1798. France had withdrawn its troops, but violent strife subsequently broke out against the government, which many Swiss saw as overly centralized. Alarmed, Bonaparte reoccupied the country in October 1802 and imposed a compromise settlement. This action caused widespread outrage in Britain, who protested this as violation of the Treaty of Luneville. Although continental powers were unprepared to act, the British decided to send an agent who would help the Swiss obtain supplies, and also sent orders for their military not to return Cape Colony to Holland as they had committed to do so in the Treaty of Amiens. [1]: 248–252
Swiss resistance collapsed, however, before anything could be accomplished and after a month Britain countermanded the orders not to restore Cape Colony. At the same time Russia finally joined the guarantee with regards to Malta. Concerned that there would be hostilities when Bonaparte found out that Cape Colony had been retained, the British began to deliberately procrastinate on the evacuation of Malta. [1]: 252–258 In January 1803 an official government paper in France published a report from a commercial agent which noted the ease that Egypt could be conquered. The British seized on this to demand some sort of satisfaction and security before evacuating Malta. France disclaimed any desire to seize Egypt and asked what sort of satisfaction was required but the British were unable to give a response. [1]: 258–264 There was still no thought of going to war, Prime Minister Addington publicly affirmed Britain was in a state of profound peace. [1]: 265
In early March 1803 the Addington ministry received word that Cape Colony had been re-occupied by the British army in accordance with the orders which had subsequently been countermanded. On 8 March they ordered military preparations to guard against possible French retaliation, but publicly justified them by falsely claiming that France was making military preparations and that they were engaged in negotiations with France that had taken a turn for the worse. In a few days it was known that Cape Colony had been surrendered in accordance with the counter-orders, but it was too late. Bonaparte berated the British ambassador in front of 200 spectators over its unjustified military preparations. [1]: 264–268
The Addington ministry realized they would face an inquiry over their false reasons for the military preparations, and during the month of April unsuccessfully attempted to secure the support of William Pitt the Younger to shield them from inquiry. [1]: 277 That same month the ministry issued an ultimatum to France demanding the retention of Malta for at least ten years and the evacuation of Holland and Switzerland. France offered to place Malta in the hands of Russia to satisfy any British concerns and to evacuate Holland when Malta was evacuated. The British falsely claimed that Russia had not made such an offer and declared war on France when their demands were rejected. [1]: 268–273 The Addington ministry was intent on retaining Malta or going to war because it would give them enough popularity to get them through an inquiry into their misconduct. [1]: 278
There are no time limits that I am aware of on sources. The annual register is certainly reliably for detailing the specific events which preceded the war, which you have failed to cover. Nobody doubts that Britain was upset by French actions, I in fact noted that in my edit. But that was not an immediate cause of the war. Before March 1803 Britain had made no demands on France, it was only after the Capes fiasco that they did so. And even then they explicitly said they were willing to recognize French influence in Italy on certain conditions, so that certainly cannot be said to have caused the war. The only real issue was the retention of Malta, this is acknowledged by the extremely pro-British Annual Register.
CJK ( talk) 17:22, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
I again reiterate that the Annual Register is still suitable for narrating the specific events that immediately preceded the war as opposed to any possible long-term or structural causes. They had access to the diplomatic correspondence at the time. The fact that it is extremely pro-British makes it equally extremely unlikely they would falsely accuse the Addington administration of causing the war. The fact is that Britain suddenly demanded the retention of Malta, and discarded viable counter-proposals from France. It only appears reasonable to assume that some ulterior motive was going on, and considering they had not made this demand before the logical explanation is that it was done for political reasons. The Annual Register gives abundant details to sustain their point of view.
CJK ( talk) 18:22, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
As a compromise, I'm willing to state that part is merely the Register's opinion.
CJK ( talk) 15:00, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
The statement that historians agree that Napoleon "did not know when to stop" is simply too biased to be used in an encyclopedia article. We don't even say that about Hitler. I also removed the statement about the continental powers being willing to give him all his gains, because it is untrue. I inserted evidence of the peace negotiations of 1806 (the only serious negotiations conducted), where it appears that the British wanted Hanover back without conditions. So it isn't true that they were willing to grant him all his conquests.
CJK ( talk) 22:31, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help); 5) Steve Chan (2013).
Looking for Balance: China, the United States, and Power Balancing in East Asia. Stanford UP. p. 55.; 6) Martin Malia (2008).
History's Locomotives: Revolutions and the Making of the Modern World. Yale UP. p. 205. Now let's see your sources please.
Rjensen (
talk)
04:20, 27 January 2015 (UTC)Simply saying "he didn't know when to stop" with no context is a simplistic way to deal with a complex issue. The fact of the matter is he couldn't "stop" the war unless the British made peace, which they only attempted to do once in 1806. The British wanted both to retain their overseas conquests and get Hanover back, which Napoleon thought was unfair. Hence it is misleading to simply assert they were willing to give him most of his gains.
CJK ( talk) 13:59, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
But its silly to say "he should have stopped" while ignoring that he needed to bring the British to terms.
CJK ( talk) 18:16, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
This box really is way too crowded, perhaps we would be better served to just include the political leaders. For example, George III, William Pitt the Younger, Napoleon etc — Preceding unsigned comment added by Omnisome ( talk • contribs) 18:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
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"By the terms of the Anglo-Russian agreement of 1803, Britain paid a subsidy of ₤1.5 million for every 100,000 Russian soldiers in the field". meaningless without a timeframe. One-off, per year ? Rcbutcher ( talk) 14:33, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
At an earlier stage this article was written in British English spelling. It now seems to be in American English, yet I cannot see where a discussion took place here in talk about it. Any idea what happened? -- John ( talk) 19:15, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
Can we please keep the separation between the two lede pictures? It just looks dumb and confusing to have them run together. -- A D Monroe III ( talk) 20:16, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
Persia was firmly allied to France for several years following the Finkenstein treaty, and France was allied to Russia in the other years of the Napoleonic wars. Military diplomacy as part of the Napoleonic Wars subsequently commenced during the Russo-Persian War (1804-1813) It would be nice if Qajar Persia's role, albeit minor, could be covered somewhere in the article as well as they largely led the front in the North and South Caucasus.
Also this map needs to be adjusted. If someone could do that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Wars#mediaviewer/File:NapoleonicWars.png
Regards - LouisAragon ( talk) 16:23, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Normally something like this would not be an issue if it were reinforced with sources, but due to the complexity of this topic, I felt it best to garner a broad consensus first. I think the result box in the infobox is both too cluttered, and giving too little information on the actual result of the war, when compared to others, such as the Thirty Years War, the Seven Years War and the American Revolutionary War. I realise the Napoleonic Wars was "technically" an agglomeration of separate conflicts, but most historians, scholars, and the public, refer to the Napoleonic Wars as one conflict. The more comprehensive results of each individual conflict can, after all, be read up on by navigating to each coalition war, whereas I believe the result of the Napoleonic Wars infobox overall, should give a more comprehensive summary of the results of the wars overall, rather than listing the result of each individual coalition. Therefore, I propose the result box to read the following, as derived from the "political effects" section of the Napoleonic Wars page:
Napoleonic Wars | |||||||
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![]() Top: Battle of Austerlitz Bottom: Battle of Waterloo | |||||||
| |||||||
Belligerents | |||||||
![]() French
clients: | |||||||
Commanders and leaders | |||||||
Strength | |||||||
| 7,000,000 French citation needed | ||||||
Casualties and losses | |||||||
|
|
( RockDrummerQ ( talk) 17:48, 18 December 2016 (UTC))
Reason for proposal:
I feel that the lead on this article is a little clunky and disjointed. Here's my proposal:
Re-written lead:
The Napoleonic Wars (1803–1815) were a series of major conflicts pitting the French Empire and its allies, led by Napoleon I, against a fluctuating array of European powers formed into various coalitions, primarily led and financed by the United Kingdom. The wars stemmed from the unresolved disputes associated with the French Revolution and its resultant conflict. The wars are often categorised into five conflicts, each termed after the coalition that fought Napoleon; the Third Coalition (1805), the Fourth (1806–7), Fifth (1809), Sixth (1813), and the Seventh and final (1815).
Napoleon, upon ascending to First Consul of France in 1799, had inherited a chaotic republic; he subsequently created a state with stable finances, a strong bureaucracy, and a well-trained army. In 1805, Austria and Russia waged war against France. In response, Napoleon defeated the Austrians at Austerlitz. At sea, the British inflicted a severe defeat upon the joint Franco-Spanish navy, securing British control of the seas. Prussian concerns about increasing French power led to a resumption of war in 1806. Napoleon quickly defeated the Prussians, and defeated Russia in June 1807, bringing an uneasy peace to the continent. The peace failed; war broke out two years later in 1809, and this coalition was soon defeated.
Hoping to isolate Britain economically, Napoleon invaded Iberia, declaring his brother Joseph king of Spain in 1808. The Spanish and Portuguese revolted with British support, and, after six years of fighting, expelled the French from Iberia in 1814. Concurrently, Russia, unwilling to bear economic consequences of reduced trade, routinely violated the Continental System, enticing Napoleon to launch a massive invasion of Russia in 1812. The resulting campaign ended with the collapse and retreat of the Grande Armée. Encouraged by the defeat, Prussia, Austria, and Russia launched a new campaign against France, defeating Napoleon at Leipzig in late 1813. The Allies then invaded France, capturing Paris in the spring of 1814, forcing Napoleon to abdicate in April. He was exiled to the island of Elba, and the Bourbons were restored to power. However, Napoleon escaped in February 1815, and assumed control of France. The Allies responded with the Seventh Coalition, defeating Napoleon for good at Waterloo, exiling him to St Helena.
The Congress of Vienna redrew the borders of Europe, and brought a lasting peace to the continent. The wars had profound consequences on global history; it fostered the spread of nationalism and liberalism, saw the rise of the British Empire as the world's foremost power, independence movements in Latin America and the concurrent collapse of the Spanish Empire, the fundamental reorganisation of German and Italian territories into larger states, and the establishment of radically new methods of conducting warfare. ( RockDrummerQ ( talk) 20:14, 16 May 2017 (UTC))
Following this revert [1], I have edited the War of 1812 accordingly [2]. Blaue Max ( talk) 18:48, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
OK so this isn't a cause I have much passion for obviously, that being said N0n3up you do not get to deny claims and start name calling to get your way period. Five sources is more than enough to call the question back into order. The Danish Gunboat War was fought for much of the same reasons that the War of 1812 was. Was that war also part of the Napoleonic Wars? If one is true then why not the other? Also another personal attack and you will be talking to the Admins next. Keep your arguments to the facts and if you have competing authors arguing the other way lets see them. Tirronan ( talk) 02:04, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
Not interested in threats but this is the 2nd time you've accused another editor of pro-US bias and I haven't even taken a side here. Let's get the rest of the folks involved but 5 sources is a serious challenge. Change your language I don't like the tone period. Tirronan ( talk) 02:22, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
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I know that this discussion should be held earlier, but it is not that late. Let's talk about his edition. What do you think about adding other countries such as Arabia and Ottoman's vassal countries? He said that he did it because "Barbary Wars" are part of Napoleonic Wars, but is there any reliable source about that? 아이린스카 ( talk) 07:17, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
The chapter on the War of the Fifth Coaltion contains a narrative of the Peninsular War (the only one in this article). Obviously, the Peninsular War was amongst the causes of the Fifth Coalition, but it started earlier and ended only with the end of the War of the Sixth Coalition. Thus, both wars should have seperate chapters. The one on the Peninsular war should state that it started in 1807/08 and then ran on continuously until 1814, sometimes merging with the Coalition Wars. The chapter on the Fifth Coalition should just state that it formed against the backdrop of the Peninsular War. Coca-Coela ( talk) 17:44, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
I'd like to know why this empire was not involved in this conflict. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.39.128.90 ( talk) 04:01, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
Let's discuss citation style since it has been tagged.
@ Anas1712 and DocWatson42: "inline citations need to have citation templates applied" could mean several things so please explain what exactly is it that you want. Do you want full citations inline using e.g. {{ Cite book}}? Or do you want short footnotes inline using e.g. {{ Sfn}}? – Finnusertop ( talk ⋅ contribs) 21:52, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
@ Esprit15d: inviting you to this discussion since we're dealing with Further reading as well. Any suggestions? – Finnusertop ( talk ⋅ contribs) 17:30, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
When the list needs to be trimmed, preference in retention should normally be given to notable works over non-notable works. (Depending on the medium of the work, see a specific notability guideline.). The current list is exhaustive to the point of being useless. I would say, at the very least, to preserve the works of authors with Wikipedia pages or who are obvious giants in the field (like a google search of their name would bring up, say, a few thousand hits, or hits from other notable sources). It's a bit subjective, but I'd rather err on the side of cutting too many. The point of Wikipedia is to have an article with comprehensive coverage of the topic. If people really want outside sources, they can use Google. Also, all those links to Amazon seem problematic. And the formatting, obviously, is wrong. The list should be formatted like the reference section, though some "captions" are permitted and may even be helpful.--Esprit15d • talk • contribs 19:51, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Just curious, is November 20, the commonly accepted date for the end of the Napoleonic Wars (due to the Treaty of Paris officially ending the war), or is it the end date of the Seventh Coalition, the date people are more familiar with? Yourlocallordandsavior ( talk) 06:40, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
Shouldn't the United States be listed as a (non-client) French ally, since the War of 1812 is often interpreted to be an arm of the Napoleonic Wars? p b p 15:35, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
- I am not sure exactly why this isn't counted. At one point, I remember clearly seeing US marked as co-belligerent in the war due to the War of 1812 however I am willing to argue this was removed because the US was drawn in a war that had nothing to do with French interest other than having a same enemy. However I agree that US should be counted as the US is drawn into a war with the same enemy as a belligerent involved in this war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:601:9300:FC0:C8C8:63CB:3D50:A0FE ( talk) 09:56, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
I made the same observation. Why isn’t the US listed as a belligerent? I think Napoleon was happy to have the US taking some of the heat off him. The US was an ally on the basis of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”, so it can’t be considered in isolation from the rest of the world. Could we put the US in a category entitled “fellow travellers“? Humphrey Tribble ( talk) 17:49, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
My edit is intended to include all Commonwealth countries and make clear the global perspective of most of the world, other than the US.
The British Empire was at war with Napoleonic France. The United States entered the global conflict by declaring war on the United Kingdom (not Canada, which didn’t exist at the time). Military action took place along the borders between the United States and the various British colonies, on the coasts of the United States, and also throughout the Atlantic Ocean. After the surrender of Napoleon, British forces raided the American coast. As in the war of independence, they captured the American capital and burned some public buildings in retaliation for the American destruction of York. The war ended with the Treaty of Ghent between the United Kingdom and the United States.
If you’re still having trouble with this, please tell me what you don’t understand and what evidence you would like for what I thought was a fairly straightforward improvement. Humphrey Tribble ( talk) 17:39, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
User:CJK has added the following prelude section, with citations to primary sources from 1803. The Wikipedia rules require it be based on reliable secondary sources, of which there are many for this important development. The proposed text itself is flawed, because it does not explain the decision-making process of the British leadership In the start of the war. It focuses on 1803 and the breakdown of the Treaty of Amiens But does not say why Britain wanted to go to war in the first place. Indeed you seem to suggest that it war was primarily designed to cover the embarrassment of the Addington administration about a incorrect announcement. A much better explanation is available in Schroeder, The transformation of European politics 1763-1848 pp 231ff, which blames Napoleon primarily for the breakdown of Amiens. Rjensen ( talk) 15:38, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Britain was irritated by a number of French actions following the Treaty of Amiens. Bonaparte had annexed Piedmont and Elba, made himself President of the Italian Republic, a state in northern Italy that France had set up, and failed to evacuate Holland. France continued to interfere with British trade despite peace having been made and complained about Britain harboring certain individuals and not cracking down on their anti-French press. [1]: 220–239
Malta had been occupied by Britain during the war and had been subject to a complex arrangement in the 10th article of the Treaty of Amiens where it was to be restored to the Knights of St. John with a Neapolitan garrison and placed under the guarantee of third powers. However, the weakening of the Knights of St. John by the confiscation of their assets in France and Spain along with delays in obtaining guarantees prevented the British from evacuating it after three months as stipulated in the treaty. [1]: 239–247
The Helvetian Republic had been set up by France when they invaded Switzerland in 1798. France had withdrawn its troops, but violent strife subsequently broke out against the government, which many Swiss saw as overly centralized. Alarmed, Bonaparte reoccupied the country in October 1802 and imposed a compromise settlement. This action caused widespread outrage in Britain, who protested this as violation of the Treaty of Luneville. Although continental powers were unprepared to act, the British decided to send an agent who would help the Swiss obtain supplies, and also sent orders for their military not to return Cape Colony to Holland as they had committed to do so in the Treaty of Amiens. [1]: 248–252
Swiss resistance collapsed, however, before anything could be accomplished and after a month Britain countermanded the orders not to restore Cape Colony. At the same time Russia finally joined the guarantee with regards to Malta. Concerned that there would be hostilities when Bonaparte found out that Cape Colony had been retained, the British began to deliberately procrastinate on the evacuation of Malta. [1]: 252–258 In January 1803 an official government paper in France published a report from a commercial agent which noted the ease that Egypt could be conquered. The British seized on this to demand some sort of satisfaction and security before evacuating Malta. France disclaimed any desire to seize Egypt and asked what sort of satisfaction was required but the British were unable to give a response. [1]: 258–264 There was still no thought of going to war, Prime Minister Addington publicly affirmed Britain was in a state of profound peace. [1]: 265
In early March 1803 the Addington ministry received word that Cape Colony had been re-occupied by the British army in accordance with the orders which had subsequently been countermanded. On 8 March they ordered military preparations to guard against possible French retaliation, but publicly justified them by falsely claiming that France was making military preparations and that they were engaged in negotiations with France that had taken a turn for the worse. In a few days it was known that Cape Colony had been surrendered in accordance with the counter-orders, but it was too late. Bonaparte berated the British ambassador in front of 200 spectators over its unjustified military preparations. [1]: 264–268
The Addington ministry realized they would face an inquiry over their false reasons for the military preparations, and during the month of April unsuccessfully attempted to secure the support of William Pitt the Younger to shield them from inquiry. [1]: 277 That same month the ministry issued an ultimatum to France demanding the retention of Malta for at least ten years and the evacuation of Holland and Switzerland. France offered to place Malta in the hands of Russia to satisfy any British concerns and to evacuate Holland when Malta was evacuated. The British falsely claimed that Russia had not made such an offer and declared war on France when their demands were rejected. [1]: 268–273 The Addington ministry was intent on retaining Malta or going to war because it would give them enough popularity to get them through an inquiry into their misconduct. [1]: 278
There are no time limits that I am aware of on sources. The annual register is certainly reliably for detailing the specific events which preceded the war, which you have failed to cover. Nobody doubts that Britain was upset by French actions, I in fact noted that in my edit. But that was not an immediate cause of the war. Before March 1803 Britain had made no demands on France, it was only after the Capes fiasco that they did so. And even then they explicitly said they were willing to recognize French influence in Italy on certain conditions, so that certainly cannot be said to have caused the war. The only real issue was the retention of Malta, this is acknowledged by the extremely pro-British Annual Register.
CJK ( talk) 17:22, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
I again reiterate that the Annual Register is still suitable for narrating the specific events that immediately preceded the war as opposed to any possible long-term or structural causes. They had access to the diplomatic correspondence at the time. The fact that it is extremely pro-British makes it equally extremely unlikely they would falsely accuse the Addington administration of causing the war. The fact is that Britain suddenly demanded the retention of Malta, and discarded viable counter-proposals from France. It only appears reasonable to assume that some ulterior motive was going on, and considering they had not made this demand before the logical explanation is that it was done for political reasons. The Annual Register gives abundant details to sustain their point of view.
CJK ( talk) 18:22, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
As a compromise, I'm willing to state that part is merely the Register's opinion.
CJK ( talk) 15:00, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
The statement that historians agree that Napoleon "did not know when to stop" is simply too biased to be used in an encyclopedia article. We don't even say that about Hitler. I also removed the statement about the continental powers being willing to give him all his gains, because it is untrue. I inserted evidence of the peace negotiations of 1806 (the only serious negotiations conducted), where it appears that the British wanted Hanover back without conditions. So it isn't true that they were willing to grant him all his conquests.
CJK ( talk) 22:31, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
: |author=
has generic name (
help); 5) Steve Chan (2013).
Looking for Balance: China, the United States, and Power Balancing in East Asia. Stanford UP. p. 55.; 6) Martin Malia (2008).
History's Locomotives: Revolutions and the Making of the Modern World. Yale UP. p. 205. Now let's see your sources please.
Rjensen (
talk)
04:20, 27 January 2015 (UTC)Simply saying "he didn't know when to stop" with no context is a simplistic way to deal with a complex issue. The fact of the matter is he couldn't "stop" the war unless the British made peace, which they only attempted to do once in 1806. The British wanted both to retain their overseas conquests and get Hanover back, which Napoleon thought was unfair. Hence it is misleading to simply assert they were willing to give him most of his gains.
CJK ( talk) 13:59, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
But its silly to say "he should have stopped" while ignoring that he needed to bring the British to terms.
CJK ( talk) 18:16, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
This box really is way too crowded, perhaps we would be better served to just include the political leaders. For example, George III, William Pitt the Younger, Napoleon etc — Preceding unsigned comment added by Omnisome ( talk • contribs) 18:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
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"By the terms of the Anglo-Russian agreement of 1803, Britain paid a subsidy of ₤1.5 million for every 100,000 Russian soldiers in the field". meaningless without a timeframe. One-off, per year ? Rcbutcher ( talk) 14:33, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
At an earlier stage this article was written in British English spelling. It now seems to be in American English, yet I cannot see where a discussion took place here in talk about it. Any idea what happened? -- John ( talk) 19:15, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
Can we please keep the separation between the two lede pictures? It just looks dumb and confusing to have them run together. -- A D Monroe III ( talk) 20:16, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
Persia was firmly allied to France for several years following the Finkenstein treaty, and France was allied to Russia in the other years of the Napoleonic wars. Military diplomacy as part of the Napoleonic Wars subsequently commenced during the Russo-Persian War (1804-1813) It would be nice if Qajar Persia's role, albeit minor, could be covered somewhere in the article as well as they largely led the front in the North and South Caucasus.
Also this map needs to be adjusted. If someone could do that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Wars#mediaviewer/File:NapoleonicWars.png
Regards - LouisAragon ( talk) 16:23, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Normally something like this would not be an issue if it were reinforced with sources, but due to the complexity of this topic, I felt it best to garner a broad consensus first. I think the result box in the infobox is both too cluttered, and giving too little information on the actual result of the war, when compared to others, such as the Thirty Years War, the Seven Years War and the American Revolutionary War. I realise the Napoleonic Wars was "technically" an agglomeration of separate conflicts, but most historians, scholars, and the public, refer to the Napoleonic Wars as one conflict. The more comprehensive results of each individual conflict can, after all, be read up on by navigating to each coalition war, whereas I believe the result of the Napoleonic Wars infobox overall, should give a more comprehensive summary of the results of the wars overall, rather than listing the result of each individual coalition. Therefore, I propose the result box to read the following, as derived from the "political effects" section of the Napoleonic Wars page:
Napoleonic Wars | |||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
![]() Top: Battle of Austerlitz Bottom: Battle of Waterloo | |||||||
| |||||||
Belligerents | |||||||
![]() French
clients: | |||||||
Commanders and leaders | |||||||
Strength | |||||||
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( RockDrummerQ ( talk) 17:48, 18 December 2016 (UTC))
Reason for proposal:
I feel that the lead on this article is a little clunky and disjointed. Here's my proposal:
Re-written lead:
The Napoleonic Wars (1803–1815) were a series of major conflicts pitting the French Empire and its allies, led by Napoleon I, against a fluctuating array of European powers formed into various coalitions, primarily led and financed by the United Kingdom. The wars stemmed from the unresolved disputes associated with the French Revolution and its resultant conflict. The wars are often categorised into five conflicts, each termed after the coalition that fought Napoleon; the Third Coalition (1805), the Fourth (1806–7), Fifth (1809), Sixth (1813), and the Seventh and final (1815).
Napoleon, upon ascending to First Consul of France in 1799, had inherited a chaotic republic; he subsequently created a state with stable finances, a strong bureaucracy, and a well-trained army. In 1805, Austria and Russia waged war against France. In response, Napoleon defeated the Austrians at Austerlitz. At sea, the British inflicted a severe defeat upon the joint Franco-Spanish navy, securing British control of the seas. Prussian concerns about increasing French power led to a resumption of war in 1806. Napoleon quickly defeated the Prussians, and defeated Russia in June 1807, bringing an uneasy peace to the continent. The peace failed; war broke out two years later in 1809, and this coalition was soon defeated.
Hoping to isolate Britain economically, Napoleon invaded Iberia, declaring his brother Joseph king of Spain in 1808. The Spanish and Portuguese revolted with British support, and, after six years of fighting, expelled the French from Iberia in 1814. Concurrently, Russia, unwilling to bear economic consequences of reduced trade, routinely violated the Continental System, enticing Napoleon to launch a massive invasion of Russia in 1812. The resulting campaign ended with the collapse and retreat of the Grande Armée. Encouraged by the defeat, Prussia, Austria, and Russia launched a new campaign against France, defeating Napoleon at Leipzig in late 1813. The Allies then invaded France, capturing Paris in the spring of 1814, forcing Napoleon to abdicate in April. He was exiled to the island of Elba, and the Bourbons were restored to power. However, Napoleon escaped in February 1815, and assumed control of France. The Allies responded with the Seventh Coalition, defeating Napoleon for good at Waterloo, exiling him to St Helena.
The Congress of Vienna redrew the borders of Europe, and brought a lasting peace to the continent. The wars had profound consequences on global history; it fostered the spread of nationalism and liberalism, saw the rise of the British Empire as the world's foremost power, independence movements in Latin America and the concurrent collapse of the Spanish Empire, the fundamental reorganisation of German and Italian territories into larger states, and the establishment of radically new methods of conducting warfare. ( RockDrummerQ ( talk) 20:14, 16 May 2017 (UTC))
Following this revert [1], I have edited the War of 1812 accordingly [2]. Blaue Max ( talk) 18:48, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
OK so this isn't a cause I have much passion for obviously, that being said N0n3up you do not get to deny claims and start name calling to get your way period. Five sources is more than enough to call the question back into order. The Danish Gunboat War was fought for much of the same reasons that the War of 1812 was. Was that war also part of the Napoleonic Wars? If one is true then why not the other? Also another personal attack and you will be talking to the Admins next. Keep your arguments to the facts and if you have competing authors arguing the other way lets see them. Tirronan ( talk) 02:04, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
Not interested in threats but this is the 2nd time you've accused another editor of pro-US bias and I haven't even taken a side here. Let's get the rest of the folks involved but 5 sources is a serious challenge. Change your language I don't like the tone period. Tirronan ( talk) 02:22, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
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I know that this discussion should be held earlier, but it is not that late. Let's talk about his edition. What do you think about adding other countries such as Arabia and Ottoman's vassal countries? He said that he did it because "Barbary Wars" are part of Napoleonic Wars, but is there any reliable source about that? 아이린스카 ( talk) 07:17, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
The chapter on the War of the Fifth Coaltion contains a narrative of the Peninsular War (the only one in this article). Obviously, the Peninsular War was amongst the causes of the Fifth Coalition, but it started earlier and ended only with the end of the War of the Sixth Coalition. Thus, both wars should have seperate chapters. The one on the Peninsular war should state that it started in 1807/08 and then ran on continuously until 1814, sometimes merging with the Coalition Wars. The chapter on the Fifth Coalition should just state that it formed against the backdrop of the Peninsular War. Coca-Coela ( talk) 17:44, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
I'd like to know why this empire was not involved in this conflict. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.39.128.90 ( talk) 04:01, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
Let's discuss citation style since it has been tagged.
@ Anas1712 and DocWatson42: "inline citations need to have citation templates applied" could mean several things so please explain what exactly is it that you want. Do you want full citations inline using e.g. {{ Cite book}}? Or do you want short footnotes inline using e.g. {{ Sfn}}? – Finnusertop ( talk ⋅ contribs) 21:52, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
@ Esprit15d: inviting you to this discussion since we're dealing with Further reading as well. Any suggestions? – Finnusertop ( talk ⋅ contribs) 17:30, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
When the list needs to be trimmed, preference in retention should normally be given to notable works over non-notable works. (Depending on the medium of the work, see a specific notability guideline.). The current list is exhaustive to the point of being useless. I would say, at the very least, to preserve the works of authors with Wikipedia pages or who are obvious giants in the field (like a google search of their name would bring up, say, a few thousand hits, or hits from other notable sources). It's a bit subjective, but I'd rather err on the side of cutting too many. The point of Wikipedia is to have an article with comprehensive coverage of the topic. If people really want outside sources, they can use Google. Also, all those links to Amazon seem problematic. And the formatting, obviously, is wrong. The list should be formatted like the reference section, though some "captions" are permitted and may even be helpful.--Esprit15d • talk • contribs 19:51, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
Just curious, is November 20, the commonly accepted date for the end of the Napoleonic Wars (due to the Treaty of Paris officially ending the war), or is it the end date of the Seventh Coalition, the date people are more familiar with? Yourlocallordandsavior ( talk) 06:40, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
Shouldn't the United States be listed as a (non-client) French ally, since the War of 1812 is often interpreted to be an arm of the Napoleonic Wars? p b p 15:35, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
- I am not sure exactly why this isn't counted. At one point, I remember clearly seeing US marked as co-belligerent in the war due to the War of 1812 however I am willing to argue this was removed because the US was drawn in a war that had nothing to do with French interest other than having a same enemy. However I agree that US should be counted as the US is drawn into a war with the same enemy as a belligerent involved in this war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:601:9300:FC0:C8C8:63CB:3D50:A0FE ( talk) 09:56, 29 October 2020 (UTC)
I made the same observation. Why isn’t the US listed as a belligerent? I think Napoleon was happy to have the US taking some of the heat off him. The US was an ally on the basis of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”, so it can’t be considered in isolation from the rest of the world. Could we put the US in a category entitled “fellow travellers“? Humphrey Tribble ( talk) 17:49, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
My edit is intended to include all Commonwealth countries and make clear the global perspective of most of the world, other than the US.
The British Empire was at war with Napoleonic France. The United States entered the global conflict by declaring war on the United Kingdom (not Canada, which didn’t exist at the time). Military action took place along the borders between the United States and the various British colonies, on the coasts of the United States, and also throughout the Atlantic Ocean. After the surrender of Napoleon, British forces raided the American coast. As in the war of independence, they captured the American capital and burned some public buildings in retaliation for the American destruction of York. The war ended with the Treaty of Ghent between the United Kingdom and the United States.
If you’re still having trouble with this, please tell me what you don’t understand and what evidence you would like for what I thought was a fairly straightforward improvement. Humphrey Tribble ( talk) 17:39, 27 September 2021 (UTC)