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I think there's a minor error in this article; where it talks about "the rear banks proved to be impossible to cool properly", I think it means "rear cylinders", since of course in an inline H engine the banks are described as top/bottom and left/right. However, without checking a reference, I'm loathe to change it. Noel 00:37, 3 Oct 2003 (UTC)
White's "allied aircraft piston engines of world war II" doesn't seem to specify whether the sabre was two or four stroke, but "Jane's fighting aircraft of world war II" page 278 is quite explicit that it was a four stroke. I've just read Setright's "power to fly" and don't remember him saying the sabre was a two stroke. I think the only major two strokes were Junkers diesels like the 205. Kahl 24/7/2006
The statement that the forces from opposing pistons balance is only true where the pistons move in opposition - one moves left as the other moves right. In many flat-12s, including the H-24 Sabre, the two pistons move together - both left or both right and so the forces add rather than cancel. Peter R Hastings 13:31, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
- To add a little to Peter's remarks above, the way that an engine like this balances is that the secondary forces within one plane of four cylinders (eg one slice of the engine) all balance out. The four pistons effectively all move together, with the two crankshafts revolving in opposite directions. The primary forces then balance along the engine, in this case in the same way as the primary forces would balance along a six cylinder motor. This gives excellent primary and secondary balance, without the need for any balance weights. Also the crankshafts are simpler than a boxer style opposed engine would need since two cylinders each share a crank, and they can use a standard forked rod arrangement. John — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.62.95.56 ( talk) 07:08, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
I just had a quick read through, lots of good text but there are many claims and statements that lack references even if they are true (which they most probably are). The lack of references is holding it off of B class. The one web reference used would almost certainly not be accepted at FAC review (from very recent experience of this!) despite it being apparently 'straight as a die'. Will have a look through my books. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 00:16, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
The Tempest became the principal destroyer of the V-1 flying bomb (Fieseler Fi 103), since it was the fastest of all the Allied fighters at low levels.
I know I've seen test reports of Mustang MkII's going the same speed at Sea level as the Tempest, which is why it (and the F-6A and B) were used into 1945. [1] JetMec ( talk) 22:43, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
Is this documented - is it a fact or merely wishful thinking? 86.178.21.163 ( talk) 04:26, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
The claim of '5500 hp' has now been uncited for two whole years - I think it's high time to move to something along the lines of 'type-tested at 3000-odd hp at the end of the war; see 1945 Flight article' etc. 86.185.70.237 ( talk) 13:52, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
< Another important effect of increasing the number of cylinders is that the piston area increases (for a given capacity and bore/stroke ratio) and this also aids higher power.[citation needed] >
This is only a rewording of the concept described in the previous sentence. No 'other important effect' that 'also aids higher power' can be claimed.
86.3.108.41 ( talk) 15:02, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
This article seems to place great importance on the HP/CID that the engine produces. That is not a good measure of an engines performance. The important figures are the ratio of power to weight (HP/LBS) and of efficiency as expressed as the ratio of power produced to the amount of fuel burned. An engine of lighter weight is a better engine than one of the same power producing the power from fewer cubic inches but with more weight. In general the HP/LBS ratio is a much more meaningful one than HP/CID. Also in this article there seems to be a tendency to default to figures for power which are from seldom used or unproduced engine types. This is not very useful in comparison.-- Corumplex ( talk) 07:05, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
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The title of this section is a bit vague to me. Does it mean "(restoration project and engine)s on display" or "(restoration project) and (engines on display)"? The former would require a restoration project to be on display to be included in the list whereas the latter would allow all known restoration projects to be included (and therefore should probably have the section title corrected to say "projects"). There was a news article on March 26 2023 about a group in British Columbia - https://www.typhoonlegacy.com/index.php/project/ - having acquired a Napier Sabre as part of their Typhoon restoration project: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-island-second-world-war-hawker-typhoon-fighter-bomber-rebuild-1.6791024 Their intention is to restore the plane and engine to flying condition. - Wikkiwonkk ( talk) 03:59, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
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I think there's a minor error in this article; where it talks about "the rear banks proved to be impossible to cool properly", I think it means "rear cylinders", since of course in an inline H engine the banks are described as top/bottom and left/right. However, without checking a reference, I'm loathe to change it. Noel 00:37, 3 Oct 2003 (UTC)
White's "allied aircraft piston engines of world war II" doesn't seem to specify whether the sabre was two or four stroke, but "Jane's fighting aircraft of world war II" page 278 is quite explicit that it was a four stroke. I've just read Setright's "power to fly" and don't remember him saying the sabre was a two stroke. I think the only major two strokes were Junkers diesels like the 205. Kahl 24/7/2006
The statement that the forces from opposing pistons balance is only true where the pistons move in opposition - one moves left as the other moves right. In many flat-12s, including the H-24 Sabre, the two pistons move together - both left or both right and so the forces add rather than cancel. Peter R Hastings 13:31, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
- To add a little to Peter's remarks above, the way that an engine like this balances is that the secondary forces within one plane of four cylinders (eg one slice of the engine) all balance out. The four pistons effectively all move together, with the two crankshafts revolving in opposite directions. The primary forces then balance along the engine, in this case in the same way as the primary forces would balance along a six cylinder motor. This gives excellent primary and secondary balance, without the need for any balance weights. Also the crankshafts are simpler than a boxer style opposed engine would need since two cylinders each share a crank, and they can use a standard forked rod arrangement. John — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.62.95.56 ( talk) 07:08, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
I just had a quick read through, lots of good text but there are many claims and statements that lack references even if they are true (which they most probably are). The lack of references is holding it off of B class. The one web reference used would almost certainly not be accepted at FAC review (from very recent experience of this!) despite it being apparently 'straight as a die'. Will have a look through my books. Nimbus (Cumulus nimbus floats by) 00:16, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
The Tempest became the principal destroyer of the V-1 flying bomb (Fieseler Fi 103), since it was the fastest of all the Allied fighters at low levels.
I know I've seen test reports of Mustang MkII's going the same speed at Sea level as the Tempest, which is why it (and the F-6A and B) were used into 1945. [1] JetMec ( talk) 22:43, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
Is this documented - is it a fact or merely wishful thinking? 86.178.21.163 ( talk) 04:26, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
The claim of '5500 hp' has now been uncited for two whole years - I think it's high time to move to something along the lines of 'type-tested at 3000-odd hp at the end of the war; see 1945 Flight article' etc. 86.185.70.237 ( talk) 13:52, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
< Another important effect of increasing the number of cylinders is that the piston area increases (for a given capacity and bore/stroke ratio) and this also aids higher power.[citation needed] >
This is only a rewording of the concept described in the previous sentence. No 'other important effect' that 'also aids higher power' can be claimed.
86.3.108.41 ( talk) 15:02, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
This article seems to place great importance on the HP/CID that the engine produces. That is not a good measure of an engines performance. The important figures are the ratio of power to weight (HP/LBS) and of efficiency as expressed as the ratio of power produced to the amount of fuel burned. An engine of lighter weight is a better engine than one of the same power producing the power from fewer cubic inches but with more weight. In general the HP/LBS ratio is a much more meaningful one than HP/CID. Also in this article there seems to be a tendency to default to figures for power which are from seldom used or unproduced engine types. This is not very useful in comparison.-- Corumplex ( talk) 07:05, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
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The title of this section is a bit vague to me. Does it mean "(restoration project and engine)s on display" or "(restoration project) and (engines on display)"? The former would require a restoration project to be on display to be included in the list whereas the latter would allow all known restoration projects to be included (and therefore should probably have the section title corrected to say "projects"). There was a news article on March 26 2023 about a group in British Columbia - https://www.typhoonlegacy.com/index.php/project/ - having acquired a Napier Sabre as part of their Typhoon restoration project: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-island-second-world-war-hawker-typhoon-fighter-bomber-rebuild-1.6791024 Their intention is to restore the plane and engine to flying condition. - Wikkiwonkk ( talk) 03:59, 28 March 2023 (UTC)