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Well, it's been a while since since this last post. As far as I can tell, they bear a great likeness to each other. Nobody has published/equated the two of them directly (especially since it's controversial). Instead of merging the two, Nanobe should exist seperately and have links to each other. It may have similar information in both pages, but until Philippa Uwins publishes a paper saying nanobes are nanobacteria... we shouldn't merge them Sp00n17 23:05, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I'm not sure if they are nanobes or not... here's some reference, perhaps somebody should contact Philippa Uwins [1] and ask her to update wikipedia
Nanobe Link: [2]
Are these the same as nanobes?
I'm under this impression as well.-- ZayZayEM 03:54, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I guess as this is the larger of the two pages, Nanobes should be merged into here rather than the otherw ay round?-- ZayZayEM 13:12, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Okay, understood. This is the larger of two pages; however, are you 100% certain that Nanobes are actually Nanobacteria? It's easy to relate the two because of overlapping information. This does not mean that they are the same, as particularly nothing has been published on the discoverer's website (Philippa Uwins [3]) that suggests that Nanobes are the same. I don't believe it should be merged unless actual evidence is found that they are. I invite you to prove me wrong about this, perhaps there's some literature out there describing nanobe taxonomy or otherwise equate nanobes and nanobacteria. Sp00n17 13:43, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
AFAIK the terms are used interchangeably as a quick search on google with nanobacteria & nanobe shows, here's eg. a NASA link found by that search http://nai.arc.nasa.gov/news_stories/news_detail.cfm?ID=137 - "Some scientists believe that life can be very small indeed. Called nanobes, nanobacteria, or nano-organisms, these miniscule structures borrow their name from their unit of measurement, the nanometer" . - G3, 12:07, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Little enough seems to be known about both that we don't know if they are the same thing. The major argument against calling small things "bacteria" is that it is not known if these motes are related to bacteria or not. If it is found that they're tiny plants or black holes, they would have been misnamed if called "*bacteria". One group has chosen to call their stuff "nanobes" until they can be better identified. ( SEWilco 05:06, 4 November 2006 (UTC))
I'm guessing the etymology of nanobe is like that of microbe, just switching micro for nano. Then nanobacteria, if exists, would be a more specific type of nanobe, possibly the only nanobes, if there are nothing like nanoarchaea, nanofungi, nanozoarians, or nanosomethingelseentirelies.-- 45.234.133.88 ( talk) 15:25, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
Are Nanobacteria making us sick?
Can we get a real image? Something like this? — Omegatron 21:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
The following is a list of observations and oddities which led to the discovery of whatever these things are. This might end up in the article so feel free to edit. Start by adding material, as it isn't necessary to prune true info until it goes in the article. I'm starting with some info from "Dark Life" and detailed sourcing will be needed for material which goes in the article. ( SEWilco 06:30, 27 November 2006 (UTC))
This article needs to desperately cite its references. Peer-reviewed research if possible. Direct quotes would be good. For example:
A paper published in 2000 by a team led by a dentist John Cisar USNIH hypothesized that the "self-replication" was, in fact, an unusual form of crystalline growth, and that his contamination may have been the source of the DNA. However, the Cisar group did not as part of their study examine nanobacteria samples from the Kajander group, therefore critics observed that without such a control sample the assertion that these were self-replicating crystals or contamination had not been substantiated.
There is no need for such a control sample to substantiate the claim of contamination with foreign DNA. A matching sequencing result will do; the matching foreign sequence is the control as the working hypothesis is "these things have nucleic acids, but they are too small to have a conventional (or even unconventional) genome." (To refute the crystallization claim you would indeed need a control as outlined above. But that's not what the paragraph states). Dysmorodrepanis 10:20, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to move this to the main page if it's okay.
Some pregnancies are threatened by extensive calcification of the placenta. Currently, the etiology of this disease is unknown. One paper suggest that nanobacteria are responsible. The authors say, "The nature and mechanism of PPC development has not been defined as yet. In the present investigation, we have tested the hypothesis that the molecular basis of PPC development consists of nanobacteria-induced calcification in infected female placenta. Electron microscopy findings support this hypothesis. The initial stage of micro-calcification may originate from the external surface of individual nanobacteria-like particles found mainly in placental extracellular matrix....The micro-cavities contain free nanobacterial-like particles, which may relate to atypical Gram-negative bacteria.... We hypothesize that the increased placental calcification might be caused, at least in part, by nanobacterial infection."( PMID 17954977). ReasonableLogicalMan( Talk 16:53, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to put something like this on the main page.
Aortic valve stenosis is a often a disease of growing old. Gradually, calcification of the aortic valve occurs and results in stenosis. This can occur in normal aortic valves and is considered a part of "old age." This "old age" aortic stenosis often becomes symptomatic in the 70s or 80s and is associated with calcification. Researchers at West Virginia University have suggested that this pathology may actually be due to nanobacteria. If true, this raises the possibly that much aortic valve stenosis surgery can be prevented. ( PMID 17315391). ReasonableLogicalMan( Talk 17:05, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
I do not have access to the full text of this article. Does someone else? ( PMID 16901042) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Reasonablelogicalman ( talk • contribs) 17:08, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
There are many kinds of arthritis. Osteoarthritis is considered a disease of old age. The elderly are often on numerous medications to fight their arthritis, and the etiology of that arthritis remains unknown, or is chalked up to "old age." Rhuematoid arthritis is considered an autoimmune disease and afflicts many people, causing joint pain and inflammation. Some research, however, suggests that osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis are caused by nanobacteria. One study says, "We investigated the existence of nanosize particles in synovial fluids of rheumatoid arthritis and osteoarthritis patients.... The nanobacteria-like particles exist in synovial fluids of arthritis patients. The possibility of their existence and pathogenesis in various diseases should be verified cautiously." (PMID: 16674119) ReasonableLogicalMan( Talk 17:21, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
The Mayo clinic team seems the first to report isolating nanoparticles (nanobacteria) from atherosclerotic aortic walls (paper published in 2004), therefore the 2005 paper by László Puskás was not the first report. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BatteryIncluded ( talk • contribs) 16:23, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Sheesh -- 68.101.188.124 ( talk) 07:09, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
The lower bound on the size of a viable cell, seems to depend on the known thickness of cell membranes and some requirment on the volume of the interior of the cell. Some theories hold, though, that early life would have involved chemical reactions on the exterior surfaces of cells, instead of the way our own cells operate internally from ingested molecules. So, if the "guts" of the cell were on the outside instead of the inside, what would the lower limit be? Carl Ponder ( talk) 10:05, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be titled in plural - Nanobacteria (like Bacteria)? GregorB ( talk) 16:29, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
An anonimous guest wrote in the article: "Please note that Nanobac Pharmaceuticals was publicly traded as a penny stock. Events surrounding Nanobac Pharmaceuticals, its management and its investor relations may throw the integrity of its research into question as well. It may be best to verify any research coming from Nanobac Pharmaceuticals."
It is expected that most scientists progress their research work into development (R & D). Name ONE pharmaceutical company not interested in it. - BatteryIncluded ( talk) 05:20, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
There are people who believe that not all life requires DNA, and that life outside Earth could exist wthout DNA. For instance, in 2001 there were reports about red rains of Kerela being composed of foreign microbes. The question of life without DNA is currently being discussed for the proposed class of nanobacteria. [4] [5] Also, there was a strange report in 2009 in Mexico about a baby alien who didn't have DNA. [6] ADM ( talk) 09:32, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
I've flagged this article as {{NPOV language}}. It doesn't properly abide by WP:NPOV. For example:
Peter coxhead ( talk) 21:14, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
I've re-written one sentence to be more neutral. I've also removed a part which was referenced by http://www.physorg.com/news128167633.html. If you look at this it quotes Martel & Young, who quote the 1999 Workshop (note 19 in Martel & Young). So it doesn't belong in a section on 2008 articles. Peter coxhead ( talk) 16:36, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
It seems odd to have so many dated sections, with different titles (e.g. "1981-1992 discoveries" vs. "1998–2000 articles"). I also note that a 2009 paper has been added under the 2008 heading. I'm going to be bold and merge the sections into two. Peter coxhead ( talk) 10:59, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
The cryptic "bioreactor that simulates conditions of space travel" is nothing more than a cylindrical tissue culture plastic flask filled with DMEM media and placed on a roller, so that the CNP do not settle down. Sorry, no complex artificial gravity neutralizer.... -- BatteryIncluded ( talk) 17:20, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
I've removed this from the article until a source is provided.
Similar experiments were done independently showing that the nanobacteria were hydroxapatite crystals that had incorporated proteins into their lattice structure, disrupting normal crystallization and creating an amorphous, bacteria-like shape. The crystals were shown to bond with nucleic acids and other organic compounds available and kept growing until the organic compounds ran out; the nanobacteria then reverted into apatite crystals that took the form of jagged sheets. Young and Martel theorize that nanobacteria are the end result of metabolic abnormalities which affect mineral inhibition and clearance.
There's an excellent Sci Am article, Jan. 2010, entitled "The Rise and Fall of Nanobacteria," by John D. Young and Jan Martel. I couldn't figure out how to edit "reflist" though, so I'll leave it to a guru. <<((:-:))>>0X0<<((:-:))>> ( talk) 05:05, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
It is is suggested that a Wiki author of note remove the following text. "One skeptic dubbed them "the cold fusion of microbiology", in reference to a notorious episode of erroneous science.[6]
This comment is erronous because cold fusion is currently under serious investigation after an unnecessary witch hunt in the 1990's. See source http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/17/60minutes/main4952167.shtml.
Note that while this source - 60 minutes is in not an elite source for scientific, it is noteworthy for those who use mainstream media to form their opinions.
A search of cold fusion using google scholar reveals hundreds of articles from Ph.D.'s from accredited universities such as...
H Kozima, T Mizuno - Proc. JCF9, 2009 - geocities.jp Reports ofCFRL (ColdFusion Research Laboratory), 92, pp. 1-11 (October, 2009) Investigation of the Cold Fusion Phenomenon in the Surface Region of Hydrogen Non-occlusive Metal Catalysts; W, Pt, and Auf Hideo Kozima* and Tadahiko Mizuno** *Cold Fusion Research ..
I agree it is wrong to equate 'cold fusion' with spurious, fringe, or pathological science. I have changed the text to read "...in reference to a notorious episode of supposed erroneous science".Theodore Rigley 19:54, 23 February 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trigley ( talk • contribs)
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"Research tends to agree that these structures exist, and appear to replicate in some way. However, the idea that they are living entities has now largely been discarded" — I'm finding myself confused here—what criteria of "life" do they not meet? This is probably really obvious to experts, but I'm not, so it would be nice to have that included on this page. Yitz ( talk) 21:51, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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Well, it's been a while since since this last post. As far as I can tell, they bear a great likeness to each other. Nobody has published/equated the two of them directly (especially since it's controversial). Instead of merging the two, Nanobe should exist seperately and have links to each other. It may have similar information in both pages, but until Philippa Uwins publishes a paper saying nanobes are nanobacteria... we shouldn't merge them Sp00n17 23:05, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I'm not sure if they are nanobes or not... here's some reference, perhaps somebody should contact Philippa Uwins [1] and ask her to update wikipedia
Nanobe Link: [2]
Are these the same as nanobes?
I'm under this impression as well.-- ZayZayEM 03:54, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I guess as this is the larger of the two pages, Nanobes should be merged into here rather than the otherw ay round?-- ZayZayEM 13:12, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Okay, understood. This is the larger of two pages; however, are you 100% certain that Nanobes are actually Nanobacteria? It's easy to relate the two because of overlapping information. This does not mean that they are the same, as particularly nothing has been published on the discoverer's website (Philippa Uwins [3]) that suggests that Nanobes are the same. I don't believe it should be merged unless actual evidence is found that they are. I invite you to prove me wrong about this, perhaps there's some literature out there describing nanobe taxonomy or otherwise equate nanobes and nanobacteria. Sp00n17 13:43, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
AFAIK the terms are used interchangeably as a quick search on google with nanobacteria & nanobe shows, here's eg. a NASA link found by that search http://nai.arc.nasa.gov/news_stories/news_detail.cfm?ID=137 - "Some scientists believe that life can be very small indeed. Called nanobes, nanobacteria, or nano-organisms, these miniscule structures borrow their name from their unit of measurement, the nanometer" . - G3, 12:07, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
Little enough seems to be known about both that we don't know if they are the same thing. The major argument against calling small things "bacteria" is that it is not known if these motes are related to bacteria or not. If it is found that they're tiny plants or black holes, they would have been misnamed if called "*bacteria". One group has chosen to call their stuff "nanobes" until they can be better identified. ( SEWilco 05:06, 4 November 2006 (UTC))
I'm guessing the etymology of nanobe is like that of microbe, just switching micro for nano. Then nanobacteria, if exists, would be a more specific type of nanobe, possibly the only nanobes, if there are nothing like nanoarchaea, nanofungi, nanozoarians, or nanosomethingelseentirelies.-- 45.234.133.88 ( talk) 15:25, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
Are Nanobacteria making us sick?
Can we get a real image? Something like this? — Omegatron 21:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
The following is a list of observations and oddities which led to the discovery of whatever these things are. This might end up in the article so feel free to edit. Start by adding material, as it isn't necessary to prune true info until it goes in the article. I'm starting with some info from "Dark Life" and detailed sourcing will be needed for material which goes in the article. ( SEWilco 06:30, 27 November 2006 (UTC))
This article needs to desperately cite its references. Peer-reviewed research if possible. Direct quotes would be good. For example:
A paper published in 2000 by a team led by a dentist John Cisar USNIH hypothesized that the "self-replication" was, in fact, an unusual form of crystalline growth, and that his contamination may have been the source of the DNA. However, the Cisar group did not as part of their study examine nanobacteria samples from the Kajander group, therefore critics observed that without such a control sample the assertion that these were self-replicating crystals or contamination had not been substantiated.
There is no need for such a control sample to substantiate the claim of contamination with foreign DNA. A matching sequencing result will do; the matching foreign sequence is the control as the working hypothesis is "these things have nucleic acids, but they are too small to have a conventional (or even unconventional) genome." (To refute the crystallization claim you would indeed need a control as outlined above. But that's not what the paragraph states). Dysmorodrepanis 10:20, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to move this to the main page if it's okay.
Some pregnancies are threatened by extensive calcification of the placenta. Currently, the etiology of this disease is unknown. One paper suggest that nanobacteria are responsible. The authors say, "The nature and mechanism of PPC development has not been defined as yet. In the present investigation, we have tested the hypothesis that the molecular basis of PPC development consists of nanobacteria-induced calcification in infected female placenta. Electron microscopy findings support this hypothesis. The initial stage of micro-calcification may originate from the external surface of individual nanobacteria-like particles found mainly in placental extracellular matrix....The micro-cavities contain free nanobacterial-like particles, which may relate to atypical Gram-negative bacteria.... We hypothesize that the increased placental calcification might be caused, at least in part, by nanobacterial infection."( PMID 17954977). ReasonableLogicalMan( Talk 16:53, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to put something like this on the main page.
Aortic valve stenosis is a often a disease of growing old. Gradually, calcification of the aortic valve occurs and results in stenosis. This can occur in normal aortic valves and is considered a part of "old age." This "old age" aortic stenosis often becomes symptomatic in the 70s or 80s and is associated with calcification. Researchers at West Virginia University have suggested that this pathology may actually be due to nanobacteria. If true, this raises the possibly that much aortic valve stenosis surgery can be prevented. ( PMID 17315391). ReasonableLogicalMan( Talk 17:05, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
I do not have access to the full text of this article. Does someone else? ( PMID 16901042) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Reasonablelogicalman ( talk • contribs) 17:08, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
There are many kinds of arthritis. Osteoarthritis is considered a disease of old age. The elderly are often on numerous medications to fight their arthritis, and the etiology of that arthritis remains unknown, or is chalked up to "old age." Rhuematoid arthritis is considered an autoimmune disease and afflicts many people, causing joint pain and inflammation. Some research, however, suggests that osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis are caused by nanobacteria. One study says, "We investigated the existence of nanosize particles in synovial fluids of rheumatoid arthritis and osteoarthritis patients.... The nanobacteria-like particles exist in synovial fluids of arthritis patients. The possibility of their existence and pathogenesis in various diseases should be verified cautiously." (PMID: 16674119) ReasonableLogicalMan( Talk 17:21, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
The Mayo clinic team seems the first to report isolating nanoparticles (nanobacteria) from atherosclerotic aortic walls (paper published in 2004), therefore the 2005 paper by László Puskás was not the first report. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BatteryIncluded ( talk • contribs) 16:23, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Sheesh -- 68.101.188.124 ( talk) 07:09, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
The lower bound on the size of a viable cell, seems to depend on the known thickness of cell membranes and some requirment on the volume of the interior of the cell. Some theories hold, though, that early life would have involved chemical reactions on the exterior surfaces of cells, instead of the way our own cells operate internally from ingested molecules. So, if the "guts" of the cell were on the outside instead of the inside, what would the lower limit be? Carl Ponder ( talk) 10:05, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be titled in plural - Nanobacteria (like Bacteria)? GregorB ( talk) 16:29, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
An anonimous guest wrote in the article: "Please note that Nanobac Pharmaceuticals was publicly traded as a penny stock. Events surrounding Nanobac Pharmaceuticals, its management and its investor relations may throw the integrity of its research into question as well. It may be best to verify any research coming from Nanobac Pharmaceuticals."
It is expected that most scientists progress their research work into development (R & D). Name ONE pharmaceutical company not interested in it. - BatteryIncluded ( talk) 05:20, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
There are people who believe that not all life requires DNA, and that life outside Earth could exist wthout DNA. For instance, in 2001 there were reports about red rains of Kerela being composed of foreign microbes. The question of life without DNA is currently being discussed for the proposed class of nanobacteria. [4] [5] Also, there was a strange report in 2009 in Mexico about a baby alien who didn't have DNA. [6] ADM ( talk) 09:32, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
I've flagged this article as {{NPOV language}}. It doesn't properly abide by WP:NPOV. For example:
Peter coxhead ( talk) 21:14, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
I've re-written one sentence to be more neutral. I've also removed a part which was referenced by http://www.physorg.com/news128167633.html. If you look at this it quotes Martel & Young, who quote the 1999 Workshop (note 19 in Martel & Young). So it doesn't belong in a section on 2008 articles. Peter coxhead ( talk) 16:36, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
It seems odd to have so many dated sections, with different titles (e.g. "1981-1992 discoveries" vs. "1998–2000 articles"). I also note that a 2009 paper has been added under the 2008 heading. I'm going to be bold and merge the sections into two. Peter coxhead ( talk) 10:59, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
The cryptic "bioreactor that simulates conditions of space travel" is nothing more than a cylindrical tissue culture plastic flask filled with DMEM media and placed on a roller, so that the CNP do not settle down. Sorry, no complex artificial gravity neutralizer.... -- BatteryIncluded ( talk) 17:20, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
I've removed this from the article until a source is provided.
Similar experiments were done independently showing that the nanobacteria were hydroxapatite crystals that had incorporated proteins into their lattice structure, disrupting normal crystallization and creating an amorphous, bacteria-like shape. The crystals were shown to bond with nucleic acids and other organic compounds available and kept growing until the organic compounds ran out; the nanobacteria then reverted into apatite crystals that took the form of jagged sheets. Young and Martel theorize that nanobacteria are the end result of metabolic abnormalities which affect mineral inhibition and clearance.
There's an excellent Sci Am article, Jan. 2010, entitled "The Rise and Fall of Nanobacteria," by John D. Young and Jan Martel. I couldn't figure out how to edit "reflist" though, so I'll leave it to a guru. <<((:-:))>>0X0<<((:-:))>> ( talk) 05:05, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
It is is suggested that a Wiki author of note remove the following text. "One skeptic dubbed them "the cold fusion of microbiology", in reference to a notorious episode of erroneous science.[6]
This comment is erronous because cold fusion is currently under serious investigation after an unnecessary witch hunt in the 1990's. See source http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/17/60minutes/main4952167.shtml.
Note that while this source - 60 minutes is in not an elite source for scientific, it is noteworthy for those who use mainstream media to form their opinions.
A search of cold fusion using google scholar reveals hundreds of articles from Ph.D.'s from accredited universities such as...
H Kozima, T Mizuno - Proc. JCF9, 2009 - geocities.jp Reports ofCFRL (ColdFusion Research Laboratory), 92, pp. 1-11 (October, 2009) Investigation of the Cold Fusion Phenomenon in the Surface Region of Hydrogen Non-occlusive Metal Catalysts; W, Pt, and Auf Hideo Kozima* and Tadahiko Mizuno** *Cold Fusion Research ..
I agree it is wrong to equate 'cold fusion' with spurious, fringe, or pathological science. I have changed the text to read "...in reference to a notorious episode of supposed erroneous science".Theodore Rigley 19:54, 23 February 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trigley ( talk • contribs)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Nanobacterium. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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"Research tends to agree that these structures exist, and appear to replicate in some way. However, the idea that they are living entities has now largely been discarded" — I'm finding myself confused here—what criteria of "life" do they not meet? This is probably really obvious to experts, but I'm not, so it would be nice to have that included on this page. Yitz ( talk) 21:51, 27 May 2022 (UTC)