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Will a Wikipedian of Syrian origin please tell us if Mr. Halaby's family name ((Arabic: نجيب إلياس حلبي) was ) is associated with the Arabic name for the city of Aleppo, Syria (Arabic: حلب ['ħalab])
Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.79.155.202 ( talk) 07:15, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm surprised no one has answered this yet, but yes, of course! Halaby translates to "Aleppian"; a person from Aleppo, Syria. George Al-Shami ( talk) 21:50, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 15:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
If Halaby indeed made the first transcontinental jet flight in 1945, what did he fly? A P-59? A P-80? Of course the question is moot, since Halaby made no such flight. The first transcontinental jet flight was made by USAAF Col. William Councill, in a Lockheed P-80 in January 1946. 173.62.11.254 ( talk) 22:09, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Its important to understand that just because a merchant or a merchant family traded in Aleppo and established business there and even one or two generations were born there does not mean the family has to be originally from Aleppo or ethnically Syrian.
A Halabi and the Halabi surname also means those who traded with Aleppo, not just those who are from originally from Aleppo, which is why there are a various Lebanese Christian families with the surname Halabi/Halaby/Halabe as you can see in /info/en/?search=Halabi_(surname). This Halabi merchants traded in Istanbul, Aleppo, Beirut and Cairo/Alexandria and where involved in the domestic/regional/terrestrial trade in that network usually of silk and cotton. A couple of examples are:
-Najeeb Halabi, former CEO of Pam American Airlines and father of Queen Nour of Jordan, who states in his biography that his father emigrated to America from Zahle, Lebanon. Najeeb Halabi thought his ancestors originally came from Aleppo because of his last name but there is no evidence of this and his ancestors could have just been Halabi merchants from Lebanon, not necesarily from Aleppo per se as discussed by Henry Louis Gates in Faces of America in https://books.google.se/books?id=meYbj1E6Ki8C&pg=PA65&lpg=PA65&dq=Almas+Mallouk+Halaby&source=bl&ots=rFkkzjZFO4&sig=ACfU3U3hlqMIm1wobTTCA4erRHx_BTcK9A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwij6KK667PoAhXPwosKHYUUDyEQ6AEwAnoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Almas%20Mallouk%20Halaby&f=false.
-The Daher family of France founders of /info/en/?search=Daher. The Daher family was a Halabi family that traded wool and cooton that arrived to France from Alepo in the 1850s https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Daher. Some of the families far back ancestors married in Istanbul. https://gw.geneanet.org/wikifrat?lang=en&p=paul&n=daher. However the Dahers are a Christian family originally from Lebanon, having settled there from Iraq in 1600 (original spelling is Dagher) /info/en/?search=Daher_(disambiguation). Chris O' Hare ( talk) 17:39, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Hi George,
Thanks for your willingness to collaborate and your detailed message. Ultimately it comes down to the present designation of what today or after 1943 it means to be a Syrian and a Lebanese. The Syrians of today are not the Syro-Lebanese of pre 1943. Just like the Syria of today is not what Ottoman Syria was pre 1918. When Lebanon was created those who came from the territory of what became Lebanon started calling themselves Lebanese and saying the father of Najeeb Halaby was a Syrian from Zahle today is not correct and confuses readers. We are in 2020 not 1925. Chris O' Hare ( talk) 21:58, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
I see you have deleted the source of Najeeb Halaby's memoir book where he says his father WAS BORN and not just lived there temporarily like you are claiming. Since you deliberately deleted the source I will be reporting you on this.
Cherry picking as per https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking is not allowed here on Wikipedia.
The only thing for sure that we know about Najeeb's father is that he was born in Zahle as per https://books.google.se/books?id=5bQQAQAAMAAJ&q=Crosswinds+airman%27s+memoir+Halaby+Lebanon&dq=Crosswinds+airman%27s+memoir+Halaby+Lebanon&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjIs5mB27PoAhUN7aYKHQB5CzwQ6AEIKDAA
Najeeb claims his grandparents came from Aleppo in that same source yes however Henry Louis Gates says that couldnt be proven in https://books.google.se/books?id=meYbj1E6Ki8C&pg=PA65&lpg=PA65&dq=Almas+Mallouk+Halaby&source=bl&ots=rFkkzjZFO4&sig=ACfU3U3hlqMIm1wobTTCA4erRHx_BTcK9A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwij6KK667PoAhXPwosKHYUUDyEQ6AEwAnoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Almas%20Mallouk%20Halaby&f=false.
Im pretty sure that there is plenty of documentation in Aleppo so if Gates couldnt find any birth or marriages certificates there perhaps Queen Noor of Jordan's great grandparents werent really born or lived there and perhaps she, like her fathe did, was assuming they were from there because that is what her "Halaby" surname "means" when its also known it could mean "those who traded with Aleppo" and as stated by Gates they could have easily been from Zahle as well or Beirut and adopted the surname many generations far back.
And no, i did not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. The memoir of Queen Noor where she says hee greatgrandparents where from Aleppo is from 2003. The book of Gates where it says WE DIDNT KNOW (whichs means both Gates and Queen Noor) where exactly in Syria Noor greatgranfparents Elias and Almas were from is from 2010. So a more recent source says the place of birth of Elias Halaby is currently unknown which is why i left out that Najeebs grandparents where from Aleppo as that is still in doubt qnd only stated what is know for sure which is that he was born un Zahle
I will be reporting you on eliminating THE most important source which is definitely Najeebs own biography and taking away the sentence that said he was born in Zahle.
I know you Syrian Americans have little accomplishments just like the rest of the non-Lebanese Middle Eastern Americans so you resort to stealing the accomplishments of the Lebanese Americans. And when you cant, you resort to saying the Christian Lebanese dont descend from the original Cannanites and Phoenicians and that they are descendands of Arabs to calm down the pathetic insecurity of the Syrians and Palestinians which are 90% arab muslims like you are pushing on the Maronites page where you reverted my edit and kept the Arab descendance of the Maronites backed by a source that i havent been able to verify and is probably fake or doesnt say that. The Syrians and Palestinians stealing the accomplishments and denying the history and legacy of the very same country and people that has taken two million Syrian and Palestinians. Pretty pathetic isnt it.
I will be reporting your cherry picking edits Chris O' Hare ( talk) 23:20, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
Dont call my arguments silly you arrogant prick.
Najeebs grandfather was born in Zahle and immigrated to America from Beirut according to Queen Noor but so what? Beirut was a port and most people left to America from there but sure i could have said exactly that to satisfy your literal copying from sources demand but its also a wikipedia guideline to keep things concise and avoid unnecesary dribbling.
You on the other hand deleted he came from Zahle (meaning he was a native from there which is what i meant) both in Najeeb' and Queen Noor articles and stated in Queen Noor article Najeebs grandparents hailed from Aleppo which both Gates and Queen Noor in 2010 state they were not sure of.
Only you believe your kingship bullshit but trust me you are not the first Arab American with relatives from todays Syria that i have stopped trying to turn a Lebanese into a todays Syrian. They are all over the internet, same as the Assyrians, trying to get a hold of Lebanese and steal its nationality to make the Syrian kind look better. They arent gonna full anyone just like you arent.
Regarding the Maronires, instead of deleting the only unsourced sentence i add out of all the edits with sources i added along with it to expand on the history of the Maronites you changed or decided to revert it to someone elses that came in and edited and changed it to a "sourced" claim that says the Maronites are of Arab descent when there are reliable notable sources that says about 2500 Maronites out of 1.5 million in Lebanon are descendants of muslim converts to Christianity but of course you being knowledgable about the topic as you claim you are decided to ignore that and keep the arab descendance "sourced" sentence.
You also reverted or actually deleted the ethnic groups they are related to. Before it used to say the first ethnic group they were related to were the Assyrians which is pretty laughable. I came in and added their more closely related groups which indeed are the Cannanites, Phoenicians, Arameans and Jews as already proven by genetic studies by Behar et al. Instead of requesting a source for it you deleted it probably because it didnt say Arab like you wished it said right? Who are you fooling here Al-Shami? Not me thats for sure Chris O' Hare ( talk) 12:32, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
How should we state in their wiki bios what Najeeb Halaby and Queen Noor of Jordan have said in their autobiography about the origins of his father and her grandfather? Ongoing discussion found at /info/en/?search=Talk:Najeeb_Halaby#Najeeb_Halaby_Lebanese_Origins Chris O' Hare ( talk) 15:14, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
Who was the first to fly a jet across the United States? Najeeb Halaby or Jack Woolams Whatsupkarren ( talk) 18:45, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Najeeb Halaby article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
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Will a Wikipedian of Syrian origin please tell us if Mr. Halaby's family name ((Arabic: نجيب إلياس حلبي) was ) is associated with the Arabic name for the city of Aleppo, Syria (Arabic: حلب ['ħalab])
Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.79.155.202 ( talk) 07:15, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm surprised no one has answered this yet, but yes, of course! Halaby translates to "Aleppian"; a person from Aleppo, Syria. George Al-Shami ( talk) 21:50, 9 July 2016 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 15:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
If Halaby indeed made the first transcontinental jet flight in 1945, what did he fly? A P-59? A P-80? Of course the question is moot, since Halaby made no such flight. The first transcontinental jet flight was made by USAAF Col. William Councill, in a Lockheed P-80 in January 1946. 173.62.11.254 ( talk) 22:09, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Its important to understand that just because a merchant or a merchant family traded in Aleppo and established business there and even one or two generations were born there does not mean the family has to be originally from Aleppo or ethnically Syrian.
A Halabi and the Halabi surname also means those who traded with Aleppo, not just those who are from originally from Aleppo, which is why there are a various Lebanese Christian families with the surname Halabi/Halaby/Halabe as you can see in /info/en/?search=Halabi_(surname). This Halabi merchants traded in Istanbul, Aleppo, Beirut and Cairo/Alexandria and where involved in the domestic/regional/terrestrial trade in that network usually of silk and cotton. A couple of examples are:
-Najeeb Halabi, former CEO of Pam American Airlines and father of Queen Nour of Jordan, who states in his biography that his father emigrated to America from Zahle, Lebanon. Najeeb Halabi thought his ancestors originally came from Aleppo because of his last name but there is no evidence of this and his ancestors could have just been Halabi merchants from Lebanon, not necesarily from Aleppo per se as discussed by Henry Louis Gates in Faces of America in https://books.google.se/books?id=meYbj1E6Ki8C&pg=PA65&lpg=PA65&dq=Almas+Mallouk+Halaby&source=bl&ots=rFkkzjZFO4&sig=ACfU3U3hlqMIm1wobTTCA4erRHx_BTcK9A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwij6KK667PoAhXPwosKHYUUDyEQ6AEwAnoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Almas%20Mallouk%20Halaby&f=false.
-The Daher family of France founders of /info/en/?search=Daher. The Daher family was a Halabi family that traded wool and cooton that arrived to France from Alepo in the 1850s https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Daher. Some of the families far back ancestors married in Istanbul. https://gw.geneanet.org/wikifrat?lang=en&p=paul&n=daher. However the Dahers are a Christian family originally from Lebanon, having settled there from Iraq in 1600 (original spelling is Dagher) /info/en/?search=Daher_(disambiguation). Chris O' Hare ( talk) 17:39, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Hi George,
Thanks for your willingness to collaborate and your detailed message. Ultimately it comes down to the present designation of what today or after 1943 it means to be a Syrian and a Lebanese. The Syrians of today are not the Syro-Lebanese of pre 1943. Just like the Syria of today is not what Ottoman Syria was pre 1918. When Lebanon was created those who came from the territory of what became Lebanon started calling themselves Lebanese and saying the father of Najeeb Halaby was a Syrian from Zahle today is not correct and confuses readers. We are in 2020 not 1925. Chris O' Hare ( talk) 21:58, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
I see you have deleted the source of Najeeb Halaby's memoir book where he says his father WAS BORN and not just lived there temporarily like you are claiming. Since you deliberately deleted the source I will be reporting you on this.
Cherry picking as per https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking is not allowed here on Wikipedia.
The only thing for sure that we know about Najeeb's father is that he was born in Zahle as per https://books.google.se/books?id=5bQQAQAAMAAJ&q=Crosswinds+airman%27s+memoir+Halaby+Lebanon&dq=Crosswinds+airman%27s+memoir+Halaby+Lebanon&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjIs5mB27PoAhUN7aYKHQB5CzwQ6AEIKDAA
Najeeb claims his grandparents came from Aleppo in that same source yes however Henry Louis Gates says that couldnt be proven in https://books.google.se/books?id=meYbj1E6Ki8C&pg=PA65&lpg=PA65&dq=Almas+Mallouk+Halaby&source=bl&ots=rFkkzjZFO4&sig=ACfU3U3hlqMIm1wobTTCA4erRHx_BTcK9A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwij6KK667PoAhXPwosKHYUUDyEQ6AEwAnoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=Almas%20Mallouk%20Halaby&f=false.
Im pretty sure that there is plenty of documentation in Aleppo so if Gates couldnt find any birth or marriages certificates there perhaps Queen Noor of Jordan's great grandparents werent really born or lived there and perhaps she, like her fathe did, was assuming they were from there because that is what her "Halaby" surname "means" when its also known it could mean "those who traded with Aleppo" and as stated by Gates they could have easily been from Zahle as well or Beirut and adopted the surname many generations far back.
And no, i did not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. The memoir of Queen Noor where she says hee greatgrandparents where from Aleppo is from 2003. The book of Gates where it says WE DIDNT KNOW (whichs means both Gates and Queen Noor) where exactly in Syria Noor greatgranfparents Elias and Almas were from is from 2010. So a more recent source says the place of birth of Elias Halaby is currently unknown which is why i left out that Najeebs grandparents where from Aleppo as that is still in doubt qnd only stated what is know for sure which is that he was born un Zahle
I will be reporting you on eliminating THE most important source which is definitely Najeebs own biography and taking away the sentence that said he was born in Zahle.
I know you Syrian Americans have little accomplishments just like the rest of the non-Lebanese Middle Eastern Americans so you resort to stealing the accomplishments of the Lebanese Americans. And when you cant, you resort to saying the Christian Lebanese dont descend from the original Cannanites and Phoenicians and that they are descendands of Arabs to calm down the pathetic insecurity of the Syrians and Palestinians which are 90% arab muslims like you are pushing on the Maronites page where you reverted my edit and kept the Arab descendance of the Maronites backed by a source that i havent been able to verify and is probably fake or doesnt say that. The Syrians and Palestinians stealing the accomplishments and denying the history and legacy of the very same country and people that has taken two million Syrian and Palestinians. Pretty pathetic isnt it.
I will be reporting your cherry picking edits Chris O' Hare ( talk) 23:20, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
Dont call my arguments silly you arrogant prick.
Najeebs grandfather was born in Zahle and immigrated to America from Beirut according to Queen Noor but so what? Beirut was a port and most people left to America from there but sure i could have said exactly that to satisfy your literal copying from sources demand but its also a wikipedia guideline to keep things concise and avoid unnecesary dribbling.
You on the other hand deleted he came from Zahle (meaning he was a native from there which is what i meant) both in Najeeb' and Queen Noor articles and stated in Queen Noor article Najeebs grandparents hailed from Aleppo which both Gates and Queen Noor in 2010 state they were not sure of.
Only you believe your kingship bullshit but trust me you are not the first Arab American with relatives from todays Syria that i have stopped trying to turn a Lebanese into a todays Syrian. They are all over the internet, same as the Assyrians, trying to get a hold of Lebanese and steal its nationality to make the Syrian kind look better. They arent gonna full anyone just like you arent.
Regarding the Maronires, instead of deleting the only unsourced sentence i add out of all the edits with sources i added along with it to expand on the history of the Maronites you changed or decided to revert it to someone elses that came in and edited and changed it to a "sourced" claim that says the Maronites are of Arab descent when there are reliable notable sources that says about 2500 Maronites out of 1.5 million in Lebanon are descendants of muslim converts to Christianity but of course you being knowledgable about the topic as you claim you are decided to ignore that and keep the arab descendance "sourced" sentence.
You also reverted or actually deleted the ethnic groups they are related to. Before it used to say the first ethnic group they were related to were the Assyrians which is pretty laughable. I came in and added their more closely related groups which indeed are the Cannanites, Phoenicians, Arameans and Jews as already proven by genetic studies by Behar et al. Instead of requesting a source for it you deleted it probably because it didnt say Arab like you wished it said right? Who are you fooling here Al-Shami? Not me thats for sure Chris O' Hare ( talk) 12:32, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
How should we state in their wiki bios what Najeeb Halaby and Queen Noor of Jordan have said in their autobiography about the origins of his father and her grandfather? Ongoing discussion found at /info/en/?search=Talk:Najeeb_Halaby#Najeeb_Halaby_Lebanese_Origins Chris O' Hare ( talk) 15:14, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
Who was the first to fly a jet across the United States? Najeeb Halaby or Jack Woolams Whatsupkarren ( talk) 18:45, 6 July 2024 (UTC)