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I've done what I can to clean this up. Here are what I'm aware of as outstanding:
Can anyone clarify, preferably with clear citations? -- Jmabel | Talk 21:03, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
Jmabel, you changed one sentence to read "advocating a position that the only chance of long-term survival for Israel was to accept the rights of the Palestinians as a people" This is still unclear - what "rights as a people" does it refer to? Also, I echo your concern about Goldmann's vision of Israel as a "neutral" country - in what sense? Jayjg (talk) 13:42, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
(weird sig there; presumably reachable at de:Benutzer Diskussion:Rosa Lux.)
Human rights.... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 11:21, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
In the long quotation, what do the brackets indicate? Editorial elucidations? If so, they needn't be part of the translation. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 8 July 2005 22:10 (UTC)
Who's the other Samuel? There are two mentions of Samuel Rosenman; am I missing another one? I've tried to tidy it again; is that better? -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 9 July 2005 09:35 (UTC)
Ah — I knew that there must be some reason for the misunderstanding. I was tending to read the article text and then make the edits; if I'd been editing wholly in the edit box (as I usually do, actually), I'd probably have been affected by the second appearance of "Samuel" in the WIkilink. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 09:57, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
I have removed a section called "Controversies". It was mostly uncited (or very vaguely cited: e.g. a newspaper and year are mentioned, with no more specific citation) and reads like some kind of conspiracy theory about the Holocaust, vaguely implying that it was a lie planted in advance by Jews. I'm not saying that I am certain that no form of this material belongs in the article - hence the note here - but certainly as it stood it was written was a liability. - Jmabel | Talk 00:39, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Stephen Weiss, trying to put the Goldmann reaction to rise of Nazism and the likely consequences into context...as you say the reactions and policies of the various organisations was at times conflicting ans poorly focused...The Biltmore was to create cohesion... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 17:48, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
As to Judge Bernard ;
ZIONIST OUTBREAKS DUE TO LANGUAGE; Dr. Nathan and Others Trying to Force German on Community, Says B.A. Rosenblatt January 19, 1914, [1]... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 18:52, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
SOS.Date should be 1941, not 1914. (b)What's Paul Nathan got to do with Goldmann? Sorry if I'm being stupid. Nishidani ( talk) 19:08, 6 October 2008 (UTC) Adjusted Weiss to Wise. On this period, there are numerous books. Brenner's my usual starting point for general orientation, but Alvin Hirsch Rosenfeld, Thinking about the Holocaust, 1997 pp.87ff., for example. Nishidani ( talk) 19:16, 6 October 2008 (UTC) The date was 1914.....The piece was about Judge Bernard Hon Sec ZOA..he should have an article.... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 20:25, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
1001 is crud....who ever did the fact check on it needs their brain tested....Political slanting is not the problem with it but the veracity of some points that it states as facts... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 07:35, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
The footnote is to Gruse's text, but he translates it differently. What is the proper procedure for wiki translations? In any case, this one has to be adjusted silightly. cf .'Der Präsident der Vereinigten Staaten empfängt Verhaltensmaßregeln von den drei Weisen von Zion.' Nishidani ( talk) 18:09, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
'The President of the United States receives rules on how to behave from the Three Wise Men of Zion' (lit.behavioural rules). The text we have has 'advice'. Perhaps a native speaker should review it Nishidani ( talk) 18:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
told what to do....as you would a child.... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 12:05, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
"By 1939, neither Stephen Wise nor any other Jewish or Zionist leader had mounted a campaign against the American quota system that denied European Jewry admission into the USA." Simply false. Nazism, the Jews, and American Zionism, 1933-1948 by Aaron Berman, already given as a reference, for that section clearly says: (pages 22, 32-33)
This simply does not support that sentence. It is misleading and should be rewritten or scrapped altogether. Tundrabuggy ( talk) 20:18, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Zionists like American Jewish Congress president Stephen Wise – advocates of public protest against Nazi atrocities rather than the quiet diplomacy embraced by the JDC and the American Jewish Committee – thought it best not to criticize the rigid US quotas, or the White Paper, in light of the piublicly isolationist mood that guided Washington,'Monty Noam Penkower, Decision on Palestine Deferred: America, Britain and Wartime Diplomacy, 1939-1945,Routledge, 2002, p.20
The statement is neither misleading nor inaccurate ..the quota system had been identified as a "bottle neck" point seen in 1933...and no assault on that point was made...no campaign no concerted effort....the quota hadn't even been filled....... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 06:51, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Some bloke named Rosenblat....Try looking up who Rosenblat was.... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 06:57, 9 October 2008 (UTC) Now try looking up the correct pages as stated in the ref...pages 31-33...not the pages you claimed 22 and 23....
as per:-
note page 22 and pages 31 to 33.
that makes your edit misleading and inaccurate.... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 07:25, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Calling the US gov anti-Semitic and or racist is also to forget that the putative refugees were also feared as a source of communism. let alone the normal xenophobic reaction... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 08:36, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
The point of the statement was to bring up:
the lack of cohesive effort or policy that Goldmann found in the US. Hence the call for the Biltmore conference..... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 09:07, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
I did not particularly want to use that quote because it is particularly harsh but it does show the accuracy of the statement...
Ashley kennedy3 (
talk)
09:33, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
German Jewry was not 3 million....by 39 was down to 300,000.....the emphasis was on German Jewry as the Polish Jewry was at that time not under threat... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 09:53, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
I was talking about 1939 pre Biltmore....by the time of Biltmore the Nazi persecutions were still looked at as a pogrom...the thoughts of Holocaust came 6 months later (even then not full scale).....the 25% was looked at as extremist scaremongering... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 11:44, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
(a)By 1939, neither Stephen Wise nor any other Jewish or Zionist leader had mounted a campaign against the American quota system that denied European Jewry admission into the USA. The efforts had been put into 'rehabilitating Palestine'. Bernard A Rosenblatt, a veteran member of the Zionist Organization of America, saw Hitler’s policies as ensuring a Jewish majority in Palestine. [1]
American Jewry only had 2 options, apply pressure/mount a campaign for refugee admission to the US or apply pressure for Palestine to be opened.....they chose the latter path... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 09:41, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
PS the US quota was one of the smallest around...note Voyage of the damned... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 09:45, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
US Boycott of German goods and Ha'avara Agreement equal and opposite outcome stalemate....There was no cohesive policy...hence Biltmore....Which is why the lead up to Biltmore needs to be included, the rationale for Biltmore did not just drop out of the sky as a substitute for the WZO conference, also Biltmore included many non-Zionists (the socialist wing, who opposed the emphasis on Palestine).... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 10:21, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
References
has got an indent for some reason, can anyone spot the fault?.... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 14:19, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Would someone please tell me why the average person reading this article about Nahum Goldmann would be interested in Bernard Rosenblatt's view of Hitler? Tundrabuggy ( talk) 14:49, 9 October 2008 (UTC) If Rosenblatt is so important perhaps he should have his own bio here at wiki and include his opinions in that. Then perhaps a connection can be clearly made to Goldmann. While we are at it will someone please explain why rehabilitating Palestine is in scare quotes? In fact, it is not even clear what is meant by that. The original edit has the same problems as I've explained above. Perhaps it would be wise to discuss and achieve consensus before reverting. Tundrabuggy ( talk) 15:04, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
If the quota system was working why the voyage of the damned of May 1939?....Just the right time for a propaganda coup....what was the American Jewry response?.... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 10:30, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
If I may intrude, the response of American Jewry was vigorous. The Joint and (parts of the) State department, while unable to reform American immigration laws (an obstacle which is easy to underestimate, and very often is, with prescient but forgetful hindsight) worked hard to rescue these refugees - and while unsuccessful in bribing the Cuban government, they were successful in getting all of them asylum, so they were safe for a time. What killed the 254 (of the 936) of them who perished in the holocaust was Hitler's Blitzkrieg succeeding beyond his own expectations, something that no one could have predicted or did predict at the time. John Z ( talk) 09:44, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
"American" Zionism is/was by definition the belief in the necessity for a Jewish homeland in the area of the ancient states of Israel and Judah, including of course, Jerusalem; that is, what was then called "The Palestinian Mandate" and presumably held in trust by Britain for just such a homeland. Zionists the world over worked toward this end both before, during, and after WWII. Obviously this project took on special importance in light of the situation in Germany, and as more became known as to the extent of what the Nazis were doing to Jews. During the early years in Germany, many Jews believed that the horrible antisemitic situation would blow over...most could not conceive of such systematic murder and destruction that was to become clear later. During these years, no major country anywhere opened their doors to the refugees. (see: Evian Conference ) Britain went so far as to close the doors to Palestine, in response to Arab complaints, so that Jews escaping death in Europe were unable to immigrate there either. This, of course, lent urgency to the Jewish need for a homeland, and led some Zionists to begin demanding Jewish control in the area in order to save lives.
That was the backdrop of American Zionism at the time. The American Zionists were basically of two minds. One was to work quiet diplomacy behind the scenes, based on fears of exacerbating an already bad situation and strong isolationist (as well as varying degrees of antisemitic and pro-German) sentiments at home; and another to work publicly and loudly to organize public sentiment in the other direction. American Zionists were at varying points on that scale. Zionists tried to unite each other behind one approach, believing in the necessity of unity. It was a frustrating time, and while they argued, they were aware that fellow Jews were desperate and dying. No one knew what would be the best approach to take given the uniqueness of the situation, and the inability to read all the nuances of what was happening in the world. Today there is an inclination to blame the Zionists who believed in quiet diplomacy for not having been more aggressive, on the assumption that aggressiveness would have worked better and saved more lives.
Some have even tried to suggest that a cabal of Zionists attempted to secretly manipulate the situation, sacrificing Jewish lives in order to populate the Palestinian Mandate with Jews and 'steal' Arab land. Like all conspiracy theories, the promotion of this theory relies first on obfuscation of the obvious, then cherry-picking facts and comments to string together a seemingly plausible theory that appeals to those who already have a bias -- that is, those whose sympathies lie with the Arabs of the region (today's 'Palestinians') and/or those who tend to think the worst of Jews (today's 'antisemites') . Belief in a conspiracy theory of this type is similar to paranoia, in which, if one accepts the initial premise of the paranoid, the web of supporting evidence holds. We need to make sure that Wikipedia articles in respect to early Zionism are not tinged with such a theory.
Finally, I would remind those who want to blame the Zionists for not having done enough or the 'right thing' that no one knew what was the right thing was. It would have been great if they had known the best way to save Jewish lives. In the end, only about 150,000 Jews (a small or medium-sized city) managed to escape Hitler's Europe to the Palestinian Mandate. Eventually it took a world war and millions of deaths to defeat Hitler, and the world map, not just the Palestine region, was changed forever. This is the context of American Zionism in the '30's and '40's. It is reasonably straight-forward. Please let's keep out any suggestion of Zionist "cabals" and deal simply with Goldmann's biography and his views. Tundrabuggy ( talk) 15:25, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
So every one has to write for you because you have decided that you're the enemy???? That statement of yours shows that you are only interested in making POV...
As to addressing the the reason behind including the Rosenblatt comment.
It is to establish the context of the decision of the American Jewry leadership to play the NIMBY card (choosing Palestine as the basket for all the eggs). At the time the Nazi persecutions were seen as a Pogrom not as a programme of annihilation (that started to come out shortly after the Biltmore. conference).... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 04:05, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
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Unbelievable there was nothing on the page about these two organizations that are a huge part of Goldmann's legacy so I just added. MaskedSinger ( talk) 15:40, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
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I've done what I can to clean this up. Here are what I'm aware of as outstanding:
Can anyone clarify, preferably with clear citations? -- Jmabel | Talk 21:03, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
Jmabel, you changed one sentence to read "advocating a position that the only chance of long-term survival for Israel was to accept the rights of the Palestinians as a people" This is still unclear - what "rights as a people" does it refer to? Also, I echo your concern about Goldmann's vision of Israel as a "neutral" country - in what sense? Jayjg (talk) 13:42, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
(weird sig there; presumably reachable at de:Benutzer Diskussion:Rosa Lux.)
Human rights.... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 11:21, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
In the long quotation, what do the brackets indicate? Editorial elucidations? If so, they needn't be part of the translation. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 8 July 2005 22:10 (UTC)
Who's the other Samuel? There are two mentions of Samuel Rosenman; am I missing another one? I've tried to tidy it again; is that better? -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 9 July 2005 09:35 (UTC)
Ah — I knew that there must be some reason for the misunderstanding. I was tending to read the article text and then make the edits; if I'd been editing wholly in the edit box (as I usually do, actually), I'd probably have been affected by the second appearance of "Samuel" in the WIkilink. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 09:57, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
I have removed a section called "Controversies". It was mostly uncited (or very vaguely cited: e.g. a newspaper and year are mentioned, with no more specific citation) and reads like some kind of conspiracy theory about the Holocaust, vaguely implying that it was a lie planted in advance by Jews. I'm not saying that I am certain that no form of this material belongs in the article - hence the note here - but certainly as it stood it was written was a liability. - Jmabel | Talk 00:39, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Stephen Weiss, trying to put the Goldmann reaction to rise of Nazism and the likely consequences into context...as you say the reactions and policies of the various organisations was at times conflicting ans poorly focused...The Biltmore was to create cohesion... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 17:48, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
As to Judge Bernard ;
ZIONIST OUTBREAKS DUE TO LANGUAGE; Dr. Nathan and Others Trying to Force German on Community, Says B.A. Rosenblatt January 19, 1914, [1]... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 18:52, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
SOS.Date should be 1941, not 1914. (b)What's Paul Nathan got to do with Goldmann? Sorry if I'm being stupid. Nishidani ( talk) 19:08, 6 October 2008 (UTC) Adjusted Weiss to Wise. On this period, there are numerous books. Brenner's my usual starting point for general orientation, but Alvin Hirsch Rosenfeld, Thinking about the Holocaust, 1997 pp.87ff., for example. Nishidani ( talk) 19:16, 6 October 2008 (UTC) The date was 1914.....The piece was about Judge Bernard Hon Sec ZOA..he should have an article.... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 20:25, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
1001 is crud....who ever did the fact check on it needs their brain tested....Political slanting is not the problem with it but the veracity of some points that it states as facts... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 07:35, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
The footnote is to Gruse's text, but he translates it differently. What is the proper procedure for wiki translations? In any case, this one has to be adjusted silightly. cf .'Der Präsident der Vereinigten Staaten empfängt Verhaltensmaßregeln von den drei Weisen von Zion.' Nishidani ( talk) 18:09, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
'The President of the United States receives rules on how to behave from the Three Wise Men of Zion' (lit.behavioural rules). The text we have has 'advice'. Perhaps a native speaker should review it Nishidani ( talk) 18:42, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
told what to do....as you would a child.... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 12:05, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
"By 1939, neither Stephen Wise nor any other Jewish or Zionist leader had mounted a campaign against the American quota system that denied European Jewry admission into the USA." Simply false. Nazism, the Jews, and American Zionism, 1933-1948 by Aaron Berman, already given as a reference, for that section clearly says: (pages 22, 32-33)
This simply does not support that sentence. It is misleading and should be rewritten or scrapped altogether. Tundrabuggy ( talk) 20:18, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Zionists like American Jewish Congress president Stephen Wise – advocates of public protest against Nazi atrocities rather than the quiet diplomacy embraced by the JDC and the American Jewish Committee – thought it best not to criticize the rigid US quotas, or the White Paper, in light of the piublicly isolationist mood that guided Washington,'Monty Noam Penkower, Decision on Palestine Deferred: America, Britain and Wartime Diplomacy, 1939-1945,Routledge, 2002, p.20
The statement is neither misleading nor inaccurate ..the quota system had been identified as a "bottle neck" point seen in 1933...and no assault on that point was made...no campaign no concerted effort....the quota hadn't even been filled....... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 06:51, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Some bloke named Rosenblat....Try looking up who Rosenblat was.... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 06:57, 9 October 2008 (UTC) Now try looking up the correct pages as stated in the ref...pages 31-33...not the pages you claimed 22 and 23....
as per:-
note page 22 and pages 31 to 33.
that makes your edit misleading and inaccurate.... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 07:25, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Calling the US gov anti-Semitic and or racist is also to forget that the putative refugees were also feared as a source of communism. let alone the normal xenophobic reaction... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 08:36, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
The point of the statement was to bring up:
the lack of cohesive effort or policy that Goldmann found in the US. Hence the call for the Biltmore conference..... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 09:07, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
I did not particularly want to use that quote because it is particularly harsh but it does show the accuracy of the statement...
Ashley kennedy3 (
talk)
09:33, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
German Jewry was not 3 million....by 39 was down to 300,000.....the emphasis was on German Jewry as the Polish Jewry was at that time not under threat... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 09:53, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
I was talking about 1939 pre Biltmore....by the time of Biltmore the Nazi persecutions were still looked at as a pogrom...the thoughts of Holocaust came 6 months later (even then not full scale).....the 25% was looked at as extremist scaremongering... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 11:44, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
(a)By 1939, neither Stephen Wise nor any other Jewish or Zionist leader had mounted a campaign against the American quota system that denied European Jewry admission into the USA. The efforts had been put into 'rehabilitating Palestine'. Bernard A Rosenblatt, a veteran member of the Zionist Organization of America, saw Hitler’s policies as ensuring a Jewish majority in Palestine. [1]
American Jewry only had 2 options, apply pressure/mount a campaign for refugee admission to the US or apply pressure for Palestine to be opened.....they chose the latter path... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 09:41, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
PS the US quota was one of the smallest around...note Voyage of the damned... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 09:45, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
US Boycott of German goods and Ha'avara Agreement equal and opposite outcome stalemate....There was no cohesive policy...hence Biltmore....Which is why the lead up to Biltmore needs to be included, the rationale for Biltmore did not just drop out of the sky as a substitute for the WZO conference, also Biltmore included many non-Zionists (the socialist wing, who opposed the emphasis on Palestine).... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 10:21, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
References
has got an indent for some reason, can anyone spot the fault?.... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 14:19, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Would someone please tell me why the average person reading this article about Nahum Goldmann would be interested in Bernard Rosenblatt's view of Hitler? Tundrabuggy ( talk) 14:49, 9 October 2008 (UTC) If Rosenblatt is so important perhaps he should have his own bio here at wiki and include his opinions in that. Then perhaps a connection can be clearly made to Goldmann. While we are at it will someone please explain why rehabilitating Palestine is in scare quotes? In fact, it is not even clear what is meant by that. The original edit has the same problems as I've explained above. Perhaps it would be wise to discuss and achieve consensus before reverting. Tundrabuggy ( talk) 15:04, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
If the quota system was working why the voyage of the damned of May 1939?....Just the right time for a propaganda coup....what was the American Jewry response?.... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 10:30, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
If I may intrude, the response of American Jewry was vigorous. The Joint and (parts of the) State department, while unable to reform American immigration laws (an obstacle which is easy to underestimate, and very often is, with prescient but forgetful hindsight) worked hard to rescue these refugees - and while unsuccessful in bribing the Cuban government, they were successful in getting all of them asylum, so they were safe for a time. What killed the 254 (of the 936) of them who perished in the holocaust was Hitler's Blitzkrieg succeeding beyond his own expectations, something that no one could have predicted or did predict at the time. John Z ( talk) 09:44, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
"American" Zionism is/was by definition the belief in the necessity for a Jewish homeland in the area of the ancient states of Israel and Judah, including of course, Jerusalem; that is, what was then called "The Palestinian Mandate" and presumably held in trust by Britain for just such a homeland. Zionists the world over worked toward this end both before, during, and after WWII. Obviously this project took on special importance in light of the situation in Germany, and as more became known as to the extent of what the Nazis were doing to Jews. During the early years in Germany, many Jews believed that the horrible antisemitic situation would blow over...most could not conceive of such systematic murder and destruction that was to become clear later. During these years, no major country anywhere opened their doors to the refugees. (see: Evian Conference ) Britain went so far as to close the doors to Palestine, in response to Arab complaints, so that Jews escaping death in Europe were unable to immigrate there either. This, of course, lent urgency to the Jewish need for a homeland, and led some Zionists to begin demanding Jewish control in the area in order to save lives.
That was the backdrop of American Zionism at the time. The American Zionists were basically of two minds. One was to work quiet diplomacy behind the scenes, based on fears of exacerbating an already bad situation and strong isolationist (as well as varying degrees of antisemitic and pro-German) sentiments at home; and another to work publicly and loudly to organize public sentiment in the other direction. American Zionists were at varying points on that scale. Zionists tried to unite each other behind one approach, believing in the necessity of unity. It was a frustrating time, and while they argued, they were aware that fellow Jews were desperate and dying. No one knew what would be the best approach to take given the uniqueness of the situation, and the inability to read all the nuances of what was happening in the world. Today there is an inclination to blame the Zionists who believed in quiet diplomacy for not having been more aggressive, on the assumption that aggressiveness would have worked better and saved more lives.
Some have even tried to suggest that a cabal of Zionists attempted to secretly manipulate the situation, sacrificing Jewish lives in order to populate the Palestinian Mandate with Jews and 'steal' Arab land. Like all conspiracy theories, the promotion of this theory relies first on obfuscation of the obvious, then cherry-picking facts and comments to string together a seemingly plausible theory that appeals to those who already have a bias -- that is, those whose sympathies lie with the Arabs of the region (today's 'Palestinians') and/or those who tend to think the worst of Jews (today's 'antisemites') . Belief in a conspiracy theory of this type is similar to paranoia, in which, if one accepts the initial premise of the paranoid, the web of supporting evidence holds. We need to make sure that Wikipedia articles in respect to early Zionism are not tinged with such a theory.
Finally, I would remind those who want to blame the Zionists for not having done enough or the 'right thing' that no one knew what was the right thing was. It would have been great if they had known the best way to save Jewish lives. In the end, only about 150,000 Jews (a small or medium-sized city) managed to escape Hitler's Europe to the Palestinian Mandate. Eventually it took a world war and millions of deaths to defeat Hitler, and the world map, not just the Palestine region, was changed forever. This is the context of American Zionism in the '30's and '40's. It is reasonably straight-forward. Please let's keep out any suggestion of Zionist "cabals" and deal simply with Goldmann's biography and his views. Tundrabuggy ( talk) 15:25, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
So every one has to write for you because you have decided that you're the enemy???? That statement of yours shows that you are only interested in making POV...
As to addressing the the reason behind including the Rosenblatt comment.
It is to establish the context of the decision of the American Jewry leadership to play the NIMBY card (choosing Palestine as the basket for all the eggs). At the time the Nazi persecutions were seen as a Pogrom not as a programme of annihilation (that started to come out shortly after the Biltmore. conference).... Ashley kennedy3 ( talk) 04:05, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Nahum Goldmann. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
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nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 21:00, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:20, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 12:21, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
Unbelievable there was nothing on the page about these two organizations that are a huge part of Goldmann's legacy so I just added. MaskedSinger ( talk) 15:40, 11 July 2023 (UTC)