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This is a selected article on the Roads portal
Dear 159.134.55.1
If you wish to add distance in miles to articles on roads in the Republic of Ireland, please stick to the existing convention; which is to list distances either
- in km only (which is the legal unit in Ireland and is used by the National Roads Authority)
- in km first followed by the distance in in miles in brackets;
example: 40km (25 miles); not 25 miles (40km).
It is also conventional for distances over 5km to be cited in roads articles to the nearest 1km. distances as "16.35km" add nothing except clutter to articles on roads. (The same applies to miles, which if they must be inserted should be rounded).
Also if you are going to make changes of this nature across a wide range of articles (as several people are currently doing) why is it being done anonymously? You should sign the changes. ( Sarah777 00:48, 30 December 2006 (UTC))
I see that miles are been added to this article. Why? I Ireland is a metric country, and other countries don't have to suffer this clutter, namely English speaking Australia and New Zealand. And also the figure giving the spec of the road has miles ABOVE the kilometres. Should that not be the other way around as km are the dominant and USED unit in Ireland. I'd prefer if this "mi" would be removed alltogether. As no one in Ireland if shown "mi" would associate it with miles anyway. It was never used in Ireland when we used miles for roads.
Miles may no longer be used **officially** in this country, but a significant amount of the population (particularly older people) have grown up with them and use them in everyday speech. The speedometer in my car is miles-priority, so I need to understand miles if only in order to convert to kilometres. I'm sure there are thousands of drivers in Ireland in the same position.
Belive me, miles are not completely gone out of colliqial usage in Ireland by any strech of the imagination... -- Rdd ( talk) 13:13, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
I've updated the M11 Route Marker to the one specified in the Traffic Signs Manual 1996 published by the Department of the Environment Heritage & Local Government. This is currently under revision by the Department of Transport which has taken over responsibility for the Traffic Signs Manual. Limbo-Messiah ( talk) 22:57, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Also the N11 route marker is incorrect. I'll create a route marker in a few days that conform to the TSM I'll try to do this for all irish Roads Limbo-Messiah ( talk) 23:01, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
These are not route markers - they are Start of Motorway Regulations signs and should only ever be used at the entry point to a motorway. A route confirmation sign on the mainline without distances (rarely, if ever, used on Irish motorways) would simply read "M11" without the motorway symbol.
This of course, brings up the point that the actual physically installed Start of Motorway Regulations signs on the M11 are not in the standard format - they are a wierd varient that has the "M11" above the chopsticks rather than to the left! Only other place these are installed are at the northern terminus of the M1 heading southbound, and on the northbound slip at M50 J13. -- Rdd ( talk) 17:35, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
The one on the M7 at J10 is a mistake, one of a number of signage mistakes at this junction (unless they have been recitified recently when the gantries were installed), including, on the southbound on-slip, a sign that just reads "M7 (M9)" with no symbol followed by a sign with the motorway symbol on its own! The one on the M6 is not a mistake, that road is now the on-slip to the motorway and the sign is correct (it should, however, be at the TOP of the on-slip not the bottom, several M4 signs are the same).
The motorway symbol should never appear on the mainline of a motorway, except at terminal junctions. It is to signify roads where motorway regulations apply on all-purpose roads -- rdd ( talk) 17:28, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I reduced these shields to 150px (again) as the 200px versions are a bit OTT to my beady eye. Maybe we should agree a standard size; if there is more than one shield in the box they overwhelm the box. Maybe one size for a single (or primary) shield and a smaller size for the others? There are numerous permutations but you get my drift..... Sarah777 ( talk) 09:25, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I notice that both spellings appear in the article and that
Kilpeddar redirects to
Kilpedder. Google maps and the OSI use "Kilpedder". Why am I not surprised that the
NRA uses Kilpedder on its website, but puts up signs for Kilpeddar? I guess standardising on Kilpedder would be best. What say?
Nelson50
T
12:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
I have just reverted a move of this article from N11 road (Ireland) to N11 national road, pending further discussion.
The move was done by Sarah777 ( talk · contribs), whose contribution to articles on Irish roads has been enormous, so I'm sure vthat it was done in good faith for a good reason.
However, the convention so far has been for Irish N-roads to be located at "Nx road (Ireland)", where x is the road number, and the move made the N11 a lone exception to that convention.
It may be that this convention should be changed, and I have an open mind on that question. However, it's much easier for both editors and readers if a series of articles such as this is named consistently, so unless there is some special reason to make an exception of the N11, I would prefer that the Irish N-road articles retained that consistency. Let's either keep them all at "Nx road (Ireland)", or move them all to "Nx national road".
I have done a little research on this (without reaching any conclusion either way), and to centralise discussion I will post it at Talk:National primary road. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 09:55, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was no consensus to move. – Juliancolton | Talk 01:17, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
N11 road (Ireland) → N11 road — this is a procedural request following a note on my talk page from Sarah777 ( talk · contribs) that she intends to perform this move unless she receives a "valid objection". Note that this follows a similar statement of intent regarding the N3 road (Ireland). -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 09:11, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Country | Google.com.au hits |
---|---|
Belgium | 1 |
France | 1 |
Ireland | 58 |
Luxembourg | 1 |
South Africa | 16 |
Spain | 3 |
Switzerland | 2 |
Unclear or not relevant | 20 |
If anyone gets the time to check other metrics before I do, feel free to add them to this table, but please note that you have done. Thryduulf ( talk) 11:33, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Could someone unprotect the article and remove that tag? The ludicrous block of the move request should not be an excuse for perfobulation. Sarah777 ( talk) 23:07, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
I have replaced the ugly big tag with the small lock symbol. I'm not yet certain the protection itself should be removed – Sarah777, I see no clear recognition in your posting above that you are going to respect the consensus that has emerged here. Are you? Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:49, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Looking at Openstreetmap [2] it appears that the N11 north of Mount Merrion Avenue has been reclassified as the R138. Is that correct? Sarah777 ( talk) 23:34, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
I don't know if Openstreetmap is correct — it is unofficial and anyone can edit it and introduce errors, as in Wikipedia. Google Maps contains errors, too. The statutory description of the N11 is:
“ | "Dublin — Wexford: Between its junction with N31 at Mount Merrion Avenue in the county of Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown and its junction with N25 at Ballindinas in the county of Wexford via Stillorgan Road, Bray Road, Cabinteely Bypass, Loughlinstown, Shanganagh, SHANKILL BYPASS and OLD CONNAUGHT in the county of Dun Laoghaire — Rathdown: FASSAROE, Kilcroney, Wingfield, Kilmacanogue, Glen of the Downs, Drummin, Kilpedder, Mount Kennedy Demesne, Killadreenan, Timore, RATHMORE, BALLYHENRY, ROSSANA LOWER, BALLYNABARNEY, The Beehive, Ballard Lower, Ballinacor East, Jack Whites Cross and TEMPLERAINY in the county of Wicklow: MARSH in the town of Arklow: BALLYRAINE UPPER and KISH in the county of Wicklow: ASHWOOD LOWER, BALLYELLIN, TOBERDUFF, RAHEENAGURREN WEST, COOLNAVEAGH, FRANKFORT, Camolin, Ferns, Ballynahallin, Moyne Middle, Blackstoops and Blackstoops Road in the county of Wexford: Island Street, Enniscorthy Bridge and Shannon Quay (and via Seamus Rafter Bridge and Abbey Quay) in the town of Enniscorthy: Brownswood, Oilgate, Kyle Upper, Ferrycarrig Bridge and Newtown in the county of Wexford. | ” |
It is noteworthy that Google Maps shows the N11 reaching north into the city centre while the statute shows it only going as far north as Mount Merrion Avenue. Google Maps also depicts the N31 going south from Mount Merrion Avenue on the route of the N11, in contradiction to the statute ( see junction).
The statutory description of the R138 is:
“ | "O'Connell Bridge — Mount Merrion Avenue, County Dublin: Between its junction with R148 at Bachelors Walk in the city of Dublin and its junction with N31 at Mount Merrion Avenue in the county of Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown via OConnell Bridge, DOlier Street, College Street (and via Westmoreland Street), College Green, Grafton Street (and via Suffolk Street, Church Lane and Dame Street), Nassau Street, Kildare Street, Saint Stephens Green North, (and via Saint Stephens Green North and Dawson Street) Merrion Row, Baggot Street Lower, Pembroke Street Lower, Fitzwilliam Square West, Pembroke Street Upper, (and via Leeson Street Lower and Saint Stephens Green East) Leeson Street Lower, Leeson Street Upper, Sussex Road (and via Leeson Street Upper), Morehampton Road, Donnybrook Road and Stillorgan Road in the city of Dublin: and Stillorgan Road in the county of Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown. | ” |
Bachelors Walk is described in the quoted text above as the R148 but it shows up on Google Maps as both the N1 and as the N4. Either the definitions overlap or Google is careless in its mapping. I have found an error in Google Maps in Mayo where I mapped the route of the R378 but if you look at the Google Map, the route is depicted in error as swinging south of the official route that I marked in blue. Make of all that what you will. When choosing between competing versions describing a route (Irish statute, Ordnance Survey maps, Google Maps, Openstreetmap) I favour the first two official sources. While officials do make mistakes, at least, by god, they are official mistakes! — O'Dea ( talk) 23:36, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
And we got an award! This is a selected article on the Roads portal. I have added this honour to the assessment box section above :) Sarah777 ( talk) 13:31, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
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This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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This is a selected article on the Roads portal
Dear 159.134.55.1
If you wish to add distance in miles to articles on roads in the Republic of Ireland, please stick to the existing convention; which is to list distances either
- in km only (which is the legal unit in Ireland and is used by the National Roads Authority)
- in km first followed by the distance in in miles in brackets;
example: 40km (25 miles); not 25 miles (40km).
It is also conventional for distances over 5km to be cited in roads articles to the nearest 1km. distances as "16.35km" add nothing except clutter to articles on roads. (The same applies to miles, which if they must be inserted should be rounded).
Also if you are going to make changes of this nature across a wide range of articles (as several people are currently doing) why is it being done anonymously? You should sign the changes. ( Sarah777 00:48, 30 December 2006 (UTC))
I see that miles are been added to this article. Why? I Ireland is a metric country, and other countries don't have to suffer this clutter, namely English speaking Australia and New Zealand. And also the figure giving the spec of the road has miles ABOVE the kilometres. Should that not be the other way around as km are the dominant and USED unit in Ireland. I'd prefer if this "mi" would be removed alltogether. As no one in Ireland if shown "mi" would associate it with miles anyway. It was never used in Ireland when we used miles for roads.
Miles may no longer be used **officially** in this country, but a significant amount of the population (particularly older people) have grown up with them and use them in everyday speech. The speedometer in my car is miles-priority, so I need to understand miles if only in order to convert to kilometres. I'm sure there are thousands of drivers in Ireland in the same position.
Belive me, miles are not completely gone out of colliqial usage in Ireland by any strech of the imagination... -- Rdd ( talk) 13:13, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
I've updated the M11 Route Marker to the one specified in the Traffic Signs Manual 1996 published by the Department of the Environment Heritage & Local Government. This is currently under revision by the Department of Transport which has taken over responsibility for the Traffic Signs Manual. Limbo-Messiah ( talk) 22:57, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Also the N11 route marker is incorrect. I'll create a route marker in a few days that conform to the TSM I'll try to do this for all irish Roads Limbo-Messiah ( talk) 23:01, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
These are not route markers - they are Start of Motorway Regulations signs and should only ever be used at the entry point to a motorway. A route confirmation sign on the mainline without distances (rarely, if ever, used on Irish motorways) would simply read "M11" without the motorway symbol.
This of course, brings up the point that the actual physically installed Start of Motorway Regulations signs on the M11 are not in the standard format - they are a wierd varient that has the "M11" above the chopsticks rather than to the left! Only other place these are installed are at the northern terminus of the M1 heading southbound, and on the northbound slip at M50 J13. -- Rdd ( talk) 17:35, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
The one on the M7 at J10 is a mistake, one of a number of signage mistakes at this junction (unless they have been recitified recently when the gantries were installed), including, on the southbound on-slip, a sign that just reads "M7 (M9)" with no symbol followed by a sign with the motorway symbol on its own! The one on the M6 is not a mistake, that road is now the on-slip to the motorway and the sign is correct (it should, however, be at the TOP of the on-slip not the bottom, several M4 signs are the same).
The motorway symbol should never appear on the mainline of a motorway, except at terminal junctions. It is to signify roads where motorway regulations apply on all-purpose roads -- rdd ( talk) 17:28, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
I reduced these shields to 150px (again) as the 200px versions are a bit OTT to my beady eye. Maybe we should agree a standard size; if there is more than one shield in the box they overwhelm the box. Maybe one size for a single (or primary) shield and a smaller size for the others? There are numerous permutations but you get my drift..... Sarah777 ( talk) 09:25, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
I notice that both spellings appear in the article and that
Kilpeddar redirects to
Kilpedder. Google maps and the OSI use "Kilpedder". Why am I not surprised that the
NRA uses Kilpedder on its website, but puts up signs for Kilpeddar? I guess standardising on Kilpedder would be best. What say?
Nelson50
T
12:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
I have just reverted a move of this article from N11 road (Ireland) to N11 national road, pending further discussion.
The move was done by Sarah777 ( talk · contribs), whose contribution to articles on Irish roads has been enormous, so I'm sure vthat it was done in good faith for a good reason.
However, the convention so far has been for Irish N-roads to be located at "Nx road (Ireland)", where x is the road number, and the move made the N11 a lone exception to that convention.
It may be that this convention should be changed, and I have an open mind on that question. However, it's much easier for both editors and readers if a series of articles such as this is named consistently, so unless there is some special reason to make an exception of the N11, I would prefer that the Irish N-road articles retained that consistency. Let's either keep them all at "Nx road (Ireland)", or move them all to "Nx national road".
I have done a little research on this (without reaching any conclusion either way), and to centralise discussion I will post it at Talk:National primary road. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 09:55, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was no consensus to move. – Juliancolton | Talk 01:17, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
N11 road (Ireland) → N11 road — this is a procedural request following a note on my talk page from Sarah777 ( talk · contribs) that she intends to perform this move unless she receives a "valid objection". Note that this follows a similar statement of intent regarding the N3 road (Ireland). -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 09:11, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Country | Google.com.au hits |
---|---|
Belgium | 1 |
France | 1 |
Ireland | 58 |
Luxembourg | 1 |
South Africa | 16 |
Spain | 3 |
Switzerland | 2 |
Unclear or not relevant | 20 |
If anyone gets the time to check other metrics before I do, feel free to add them to this table, but please note that you have done. Thryduulf ( talk) 11:33, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Could someone unprotect the article and remove that tag? The ludicrous block of the move request should not be an excuse for perfobulation. Sarah777 ( talk) 23:07, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
I have replaced the ugly big tag with the small lock symbol. I'm not yet certain the protection itself should be removed – Sarah777, I see no clear recognition in your posting above that you are going to respect the consensus that has emerged here. Are you? Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:49, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
Looking at Openstreetmap [2] it appears that the N11 north of Mount Merrion Avenue has been reclassified as the R138. Is that correct? Sarah777 ( talk) 23:34, 3 May 2013 (UTC)
I don't know if Openstreetmap is correct — it is unofficial and anyone can edit it and introduce errors, as in Wikipedia. Google Maps contains errors, too. The statutory description of the N11 is:
“ | "Dublin — Wexford: Between its junction with N31 at Mount Merrion Avenue in the county of Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown and its junction with N25 at Ballindinas in the county of Wexford via Stillorgan Road, Bray Road, Cabinteely Bypass, Loughlinstown, Shanganagh, SHANKILL BYPASS and OLD CONNAUGHT in the county of Dun Laoghaire — Rathdown: FASSAROE, Kilcroney, Wingfield, Kilmacanogue, Glen of the Downs, Drummin, Kilpedder, Mount Kennedy Demesne, Killadreenan, Timore, RATHMORE, BALLYHENRY, ROSSANA LOWER, BALLYNABARNEY, The Beehive, Ballard Lower, Ballinacor East, Jack Whites Cross and TEMPLERAINY in the county of Wicklow: MARSH in the town of Arklow: BALLYRAINE UPPER and KISH in the county of Wicklow: ASHWOOD LOWER, BALLYELLIN, TOBERDUFF, RAHEENAGURREN WEST, COOLNAVEAGH, FRANKFORT, Camolin, Ferns, Ballynahallin, Moyne Middle, Blackstoops and Blackstoops Road in the county of Wexford: Island Street, Enniscorthy Bridge and Shannon Quay (and via Seamus Rafter Bridge and Abbey Quay) in the town of Enniscorthy: Brownswood, Oilgate, Kyle Upper, Ferrycarrig Bridge and Newtown in the county of Wexford. | ” |
It is noteworthy that Google Maps shows the N11 reaching north into the city centre while the statute shows it only going as far north as Mount Merrion Avenue. Google Maps also depicts the N31 going south from Mount Merrion Avenue on the route of the N11, in contradiction to the statute ( see junction).
The statutory description of the R138 is:
“ | "O'Connell Bridge — Mount Merrion Avenue, County Dublin: Between its junction with R148 at Bachelors Walk in the city of Dublin and its junction with N31 at Mount Merrion Avenue in the county of Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown via OConnell Bridge, DOlier Street, College Street (and via Westmoreland Street), College Green, Grafton Street (and via Suffolk Street, Church Lane and Dame Street), Nassau Street, Kildare Street, Saint Stephens Green North, (and via Saint Stephens Green North and Dawson Street) Merrion Row, Baggot Street Lower, Pembroke Street Lower, Fitzwilliam Square West, Pembroke Street Upper, (and via Leeson Street Lower and Saint Stephens Green East) Leeson Street Lower, Leeson Street Upper, Sussex Road (and via Leeson Street Upper), Morehampton Road, Donnybrook Road and Stillorgan Road in the city of Dublin: and Stillorgan Road in the county of Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown. | ” |
Bachelors Walk is described in the quoted text above as the R148 but it shows up on Google Maps as both the N1 and as the N4. Either the definitions overlap or Google is careless in its mapping. I have found an error in Google Maps in Mayo where I mapped the route of the R378 but if you look at the Google Map, the route is depicted in error as swinging south of the official route that I marked in blue. Make of all that what you will. When choosing between competing versions describing a route (Irish statute, Ordnance Survey maps, Google Maps, Openstreetmap) I favour the first two official sources. While officials do make mistakes, at least, by god, they are official mistakes! — O'Dea ( talk) 23:36, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
And we got an award! This is a selected article on the Roads portal. I have added this honour to the assessment box section above :) Sarah777 ( talk) 13:31, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
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