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Moscow Connection, Can You fix repeating information and correct the inaccurate date of creation? Can we try to do the article as neutral, as possible. Dctrzl ( talk) 08:16, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
An IP editor has removed the categories Category:Human rights abuses and Category:Human rights in Ukraine without explanation. Instead he/she has demanded an explanation for the article being included in the categories.
One of the human rights is the right to life. In April 2015 the Myrotvorets website published the home addresses of Oles Buzina and Oleg Kalashnikov, and within days they were murdered. On 7 May 2016 Myrotvorets published the personal data of 4,508 journalists, etc. who were perceived as having cooperated with the Russian-backed/controlled Donetsk People's Republic. Doing this put their lives at risk. Hence the inclusion in categories covering human rights abuses.-- Toddy1 (talk) 06:02, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
@Mhorg. [5] - perhaps this is sourced, but this is an extremist website does grave dancing. I would be inclined to remove, and especially the link to website. However, if you insist to keep it, well, this is your responsibility. I am not going to edit war. My very best wishes ( talk) 16:05, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
[8] - this edit. Yes, I can see that the Italian source flatly tells that Mirotvorets is "curated" by the SBU, nothing more. 2nd English language source tells that "Yekaterina Sergatskova, an anchor at Hramadske TV told the Daily Beast: "This is a project curated by the SBU and praised Anton Geraschenko [at the Interior Ministry]." These sources do not provide any details, beyond saying "it was curated". But what does it mean "curated"? This is not clear. Meaning like a database curation, i.e. the database of Mirotvorets was curated by SBU people? Or meaning like curator of someone in intelligence operations? Any good RS on this subject must explain how exactly SBU was involved and why. Are the people in Mirotvorets sitting on their payroll? Is it a front organization? Did the SBU "penetrated" the organization or what? I am afraid these two sources are not good enough to support such statement made in WP voice. My very best wishes ( talk) 01:37, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
I had a real brain fart moment with this edit—the "RT Staff Reporters" obviously meant Rio Times and not Russia Today ... Still, the fact that the Rio Times article cites this Wikipedia article for the claim that Myrotvorets is "managed by the Ukrainian Security Service and the Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs officials" or the fact that this article is part of a series on "curated alternative narratives", which include coverage of Bill Gates sourced entirely to MintPress News ( a deprecated source), UFOs, and " imminent collapse of the [Ukrainian] army" makes me doubt the source's reliability. Kleinpecan ( talk) 06:34, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
Shouldn't this article mention the minors listed on the website? It seems to be an important matter as sharing children's private information is both unethical and illegal in most countries. 80.94.250.115 ( talk) 18:33, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
Since there has been a lot of talk lately about Myrotvorets, I would like to warn other colleagues that two rather important cases have been removed [17] from the article. The first concerns Svetlana Alexievich (2015 Nobel Prize in Literature), who had to cancel a meeting because she was threatened because of Myrotvorets. The second is about the Italian reporter Andrea Rocchelli, who was killed in Ukraine. I think we should restore them, both. Please, could you give your opinion? Mhorg ( talk) 09:21, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Mhorg, you put into this article that Rocchelli was “murdered by the Ukrainian army”. OF COURSE I removed such nonsense and I’m not sure why you’d want to bring attention to the kind of edits you’re making here. Volunteer Marek 00:36, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
Svetlana Alexievich and Andrea Rocchelli are important examples. Today, there has been another attempt to remove the paragraph about Alexievich [20]. I don't get it, she is an extremely notable example, her addition to the list really caused some stir. -- Moscow Connection ( talk) 06:10, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
@
Volunteer Marek removed from the lead
[29]
[30] the info that Myrotvorets is widely used by government officials in carrying out their duties. Here's the text, slightly edited: Although it has no official status, the website is regularly consulted at checkpoints to integrate government information systems
(source,
The Times
[31]).
Since the info is significant, I temporarely placed it in the article body
[32] but I believe it should belong to the lead. Apart from that, I believe it's extremely POV that we remove this info from the lead while leaving there the info that The website has no official status
, as Volunteer Marek proposes we do
[33]. It sounds as if we were saying: "it's just a private enterprise, not the government's business". On the contrary, if officials use the database, and the database is privately owned and privately menaged, that makes the whole situation even more worrying, because (on top of the issues with privacy, human rights, etc.) there's also an issue of accountability.
So either both infos are placed in the lead (which I think is better), or both are placed in the body of the article. Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 01:19, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
Can anyone confirm or deny reports he was added there? The claim is being circulated on RT but I don't know how to check. LichCake ( talk) 12:03, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
This is my first attempt at edit or talk page, so please forgive me if I'm wrong format (I'll learn to do better). My suggested edit is change "in his" to "to its". The last paragraph on article currently reads "Following the beginning of the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, Myrotvorets added the names of Viktor Orbán (Prime Minister of Hungary) and Zoran Milanović (President of Croatia) in his list of "Enemies of Ukraine"." The current wording use "his", sound like Myrotvorets is a single person. I suggest it be changed to "Following the beginning of the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, Myrotvorets added the names of Viktor Orbán (Prime Minister of Hungary) and Zoran Milanović (President of Croatia) to its list of "Enemies of Ukraine"." The second one sounds more natural grammar to me, but I may not understand what is actually said. Thank you. Jim Basketballhoop ( talk) 20:23, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
I believe we should also include possible allegations on the website being a kill list considering how many people on the list end up dead 38.99.190.243 ( talk) 23:41, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
As of writing the following highly dubiously sourced but perhaps/probably true information is included in the article as such -> "Myrotvorets" is also recognised by the courts of Ukraine when making decisions, according to rights group Uspishna Varta. According to them the data of the collected on the website is used in court decisions at all stages - from the beginning of the pre-trial investigation to the conviction of the person, and in numerous rulings, judges also accept information from the "Myrotvorets" as material evidence. The use of the website applies not only to criminal cases, but also to civil legal relations and factfinding acts. As of 2019, data from the site was used in over 100 cases, according to Uspishna Varta.
Similarly, the website of Myrotvorets say something very similar: "Ukrainian courts use the information published on the Myrotvorets website at all stages of judicial proceedings..."
Uspishna Varta describe itself as -> "The human rights platform “Uspishna Varta” was created on the initiative and with the support of the Ukrainian public figure and philanthropist Oleksandr Klymenko (politician)"... for context he's wanted for high treason within Ukraine.
This can be seen at the bottom of the current opinionto OSCE reference that's linked on the main page.
StopFake (Ukrainian NGO) has an article on some claims of the group it says are not-collaborated as seen here
It's safe to assume Uspishna Varta disbanded around 2019, and news released by the ground ceased in 2019. Their last existing cache that I could find date to 2020 here.
I'm unsure if the current sources (Al-Jazeera referring to Uspishna Varta + the opinion Uspishna Varta itself to the OSCE) are sufficient and I couldn't find any on my own. Perhaps something like the group's own self-reference or omitting the court related information altogether is better in context but I don't usually wiki and this seem touchy.
I was going to added a more citation needed tag with a link to this talk section but it seem locked at the moment or at least locked to non-users. 184.163.73.178 ( talk) 16:35, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
There is a space at the end of the sentence "It has been promoted by Anton Herashchenko, a co-founder and later advisor to the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine .", which I believe should be deleted. 76.14.32.104 ( talk) 20:26, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
This should be removed as soon as possible, since the forum with doxing content kiwifarms' link was removed to remove publicity, there is no reason to list a website that doxes people by listing their passport numbers, addresses, date of births, relatives, emails and everything else and then celebrates on the home page with graphic violence when they get killed.
An example of such content: https://myrotvorets.center/criminal/okhlobystina-oksana-vladimirovna/ Feeelix Kai ( talk) 16:54, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
If you want to improve the article, my suggestion is to include a section on the many criticisms Myrotvorets has received. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB1D:9326:CC00:29F7:19F5:C098:D83B ( talk) 17:10, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Myrotvorets article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to Eastern Europe or the Balkans, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
Moscow Connection, Can You fix repeating information and correct the inaccurate date of creation? Can we try to do the article as neutral, as possible. Dctrzl ( talk) 08:16, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
An IP editor has removed the categories Category:Human rights abuses and Category:Human rights in Ukraine without explanation. Instead he/she has demanded an explanation for the article being included in the categories.
One of the human rights is the right to life. In April 2015 the Myrotvorets website published the home addresses of Oles Buzina and Oleg Kalashnikov, and within days they were murdered. On 7 May 2016 Myrotvorets published the personal data of 4,508 journalists, etc. who were perceived as having cooperated with the Russian-backed/controlled Donetsk People's Republic. Doing this put their lives at risk. Hence the inclusion in categories covering human rights abuses.-- Toddy1 (talk) 06:02, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
@Mhorg. [5] - perhaps this is sourced, but this is an extremist website does grave dancing. I would be inclined to remove, and especially the link to website. However, if you insist to keep it, well, this is your responsibility. I am not going to edit war. My very best wishes ( talk) 16:05, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
[8] - this edit. Yes, I can see that the Italian source flatly tells that Mirotvorets is "curated" by the SBU, nothing more. 2nd English language source tells that "Yekaterina Sergatskova, an anchor at Hramadske TV told the Daily Beast: "This is a project curated by the SBU and praised Anton Geraschenko [at the Interior Ministry]." These sources do not provide any details, beyond saying "it was curated". But what does it mean "curated"? This is not clear. Meaning like a database curation, i.e. the database of Mirotvorets was curated by SBU people? Or meaning like curator of someone in intelligence operations? Any good RS on this subject must explain how exactly SBU was involved and why. Are the people in Mirotvorets sitting on their payroll? Is it a front organization? Did the SBU "penetrated" the organization or what? I am afraid these two sources are not good enough to support such statement made in WP voice. My very best wishes ( talk) 01:37, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
I had a real brain fart moment with this edit—the "RT Staff Reporters" obviously meant Rio Times and not Russia Today ... Still, the fact that the Rio Times article cites this Wikipedia article for the claim that Myrotvorets is "managed by the Ukrainian Security Service and the Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs officials" or the fact that this article is part of a series on "curated alternative narratives", which include coverage of Bill Gates sourced entirely to MintPress News ( a deprecated source), UFOs, and " imminent collapse of the [Ukrainian] army" makes me doubt the source's reliability. Kleinpecan ( talk) 06:34, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
Shouldn't this article mention the minors listed on the website? It seems to be an important matter as sharing children's private information is both unethical and illegal in most countries. 80.94.250.115 ( talk) 18:33, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
Since there has been a lot of talk lately about Myrotvorets, I would like to warn other colleagues that two rather important cases have been removed [17] from the article. The first concerns Svetlana Alexievich (2015 Nobel Prize in Literature), who had to cancel a meeting because she was threatened because of Myrotvorets. The second is about the Italian reporter Andrea Rocchelli, who was killed in Ukraine. I think we should restore them, both. Please, could you give your opinion? Mhorg ( talk) 09:21, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Mhorg, you put into this article that Rocchelli was “murdered by the Ukrainian army”. OF COURSE I removed such nonsense and I’m not sure why you’d want to bring attention to the kind of edits you’re making here. Volunteer Marek 00:36, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
Svetlana Alexievich and Andrea Rocchelli are important examples. Today, there has been another attempt to remove the paragraph about Alexievich [20]. I don't get it, she is an extremely notable example, her addition to the list really caused some stir. -- Moscow Connection ( talk) 06:10, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
@
Volunteer Marek removed from the lead
[29]
[30] the info that Myrotvorets is widely used by government officials in carrying out their duties. Here's the text, slightly edited: Although it has no official status, the website is regularly consulted at checkpoints to integrate government information systems
(source,
The Times
[31]).
Since the info is significant, I temporarely placed it in the article body
[32] but I believe it should belong to the lead. Apart from that, I believe it's extremely POV that we remove this info from the lead while leaving there the info that The website has no official status
, as Volunteer Marek proposes we do
[33]. It sounds as if we were saying: "it's just a private enterprise, not the government's business". On the contrary, if officials use the database, and the database is privately owned and privately menaged, that makes the whole situation even more worrying, because (on top of the issues with privacy, human rights, etc.) there's also an issue of accountability.
So either both infos are placed in the lead (which I think is better), or both are placed in the body of the article. Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 01:19, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
Can anyone confirm or deny reports he was added there? The claim is being circulated on RT but I don't know how to check. LichCake ( talk) 12:03, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
This is my first attempt at edit or talk page, so please forgive me if I'm wrong format (I'll learn to do better). My suggested edit is change "in his" to "to its". The last paragraph on article currently reads "Following the beginning of the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, Myrotvorets added the names of Viktor Orbán (Prime Minister of Hungary) and Zoran Milanović (President of Croatia) in his list of "Enemies of Ukraine"." The current wording use "his", sound like Myrotvorets is a single person. I suggest it be changed to "Following the beginning of the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, Myrotvorets added the names of Viktor Orbán (Prime Minister of Hungary) and Zoran Milanović (President of Croatia) to its list of "Enemies of Ukraine"." The second one sounds more natural grammar to me, but I may not understand what is actually said. Thank you. Jim Basketballhoop ( talk) 20:23, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
I believe we should also include possible allegations on the website being a kill list considering how many people on the list end up dead 38.99.190.243 ( talk) 23:41, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
As of writing the following highly dubiously sourced but perhaps/probably true information is included in the article as such -> "Myrotvorets" is also recognised by the courts of Ukraine when making decisions, according to rights group Uspishna Varta. According to them the data of the collected on the website is used in court decisions at all stages - from the beginning of the pre-trial investigation to the conviction of the person, and in numerous rulings, judges also accept information from the "Myrotvorets" as material evidence. The use of the website applies not only to criminal cases, but also to civil legal relations and factfinding acts. As of 2019, data from the site was used in over 100 cases, according to Uspishna Varta.
Similarly, the website of Myrotvorets say something very similar: "Ukrainian courts use the information published on the Myrotvorets website at all stages of judicial proceedings..."
Uspishna Varta describe itself as -> "The human rights platform “Uspishna Varta” was created on the initiative and with the support of the Ukrainian public figure and philanthropist Oleksandr Klymenko (politician)"... for context he's wanted for high treason within Ukraine.
This can be seen at the bottom of the current opinionto OSCE reference that's linked on the main page.
StopFake (Ukrainian NGO) has an article on some claims of the group it says are not-collaborated as seen here
It's safe to assume Uspishna Varta disbanded around 2019, and news released by the ground ceased in 2019. Their last existing cache that I could find date to 2020 here.
I'm unsure if the current sources (Al-Jazeera referring to Uspishna Varta + the opinion Uspishna Varta itself to the OSCE) are sufficient and I couldn't find any on my own. Perhaps something like the group's own self-reference or omitting the court related information altogether is better in context but I don't usually wiki and this seem touchy.
I was going to added a more citation needed tag with a link to this talk section but it seem locked at the moment or at least locked to non-users. 184.163.73.178 ( talk) 16:35, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
There is a space at the end of the sentence "It has been promoted by Anton Herashchenko, a co-founder and later advisor to the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Ukraine .", which I believe should be deleted. 76.14.32.104 ( talk) 20:26, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
This should be removed as soon as possible, since the forum with doxing content kiwifarms' link was removed to remove publicity, there is no reason to list a website that doxes people by listing their passport numbers, addresses, date of births, relatives, emails and everything else and then celebrates on the home page with graphic violence when they get killed.
An example of such content: https://myrotvorets.center/criminal/okhlobystina-oksana-vladimirovna/ Feeelix Kai ( talk) 16:54, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
If you want to improve the article, my suggestion is to include a section on the many criticisms Myrotvorets has received. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB1D:9326:CC00:29F7:19F5:C098:D83B ( talk) 17:10, 20 April 2024 (UTC)