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i suggest to chang the name Mutaween because in saudi the name Mutaween mean (religious man) and so any one who come to saudi well very confeosed so i suggest to use there offical name (hesbah) or the more commen name haia'a (arabic:هيئه) if any one think otherwise reply -- Arabian soul 11:25, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
August 28, 2007: The "etymology" section does not include any etymology. It would be interesting to have some. --yerubal
What makes Iran and Nigeria " Islamist". Saudi Arabia would consider itself salafi'ist rather than Wahabbi'ist, but calling it Islamist would be acceptable. Would it not make more sense to refer to them as Muslim nations? -- Irishpunktom\ talk 11:51, September 6, 2005 (UTC)
I removed the last paragraph under the Duties of the Mutaween section:
This is unencyclopedic commentary. I actually agree with the statement "Most probably, this Western View is true" but such commentary has no place in a NPOV encyclopedia.-- Brentt 21:15, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Brennt, most probably you are right. But: we really do nmot like these guys, accordingly, it shall be allowed to express some disgust.--
Lotse5000
11:27, 9 November 2005 (UTC)--
Due to the size of this page, I have archived topics earlier than June 2005. They can be accessed from the link at top.-- み使い Mitsukai 02:15, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
I totally agree with the earlier posts, this article used particular words that weren't necessarily applicable. Additionally, the "mutaween" events in "secular democracies" is pretty misleading - I mean, it was a group affiliated with an offshot of the NOI that was angry about Yemeni store owners selling liquor in black communities in Oakland. -- Sir192
I may be ignorant on the subject, but from what I understand, the Mutaween and the Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice are the same thing. Perhaps that article should be merged into this one? -- Tbook 23:26, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
... Never mind. I figured out that Mutaween is the general term in any Islamic state, and the Committee is specific to Saudi Arabia. -- Tbook 23:28, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Among several accuracy issues at this article is the section I have just tagged regarding nations featuring "mutaween" - the section offers a subjective and flawed definition of what constitutes "mutaween" in those countries and no sources are offered to back up such claims. Iran, for instance, does not have any police force described as "mutaween." SouthernComfort 03:28, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
the website of austria's national public-service broadcaster ORF states [1]:
is there any reference for the gestapo-connection ? -- Cherubino 17:57, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
-- 172.202.246.237 21:34, 5 July 2006 (UTC)ame==Baseej?==
I dont think Iran's Baseej really falls under the "Mutaween". The komite did. But not the Baseej.
Although they do enforce moral laws here and there nowadays, they are more of a political paramilitary group. They would rise in conflict against other clerics and Islamic groups of Iran, if necessary.
Their founding is especially tied to the Iran-Iraq war.-- Zereshk 15:23, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
I would just like to point out that the Saudi Arabian Mutaween cannot have been formed by converted by gestapo members in 1945 as Saudi Arabia did not exist until a long time afterwards. Plus I found the comments by some people about islam on this page to be complete ignorance. If you want to make opinionated comments at least know what you are talking about before you talk shit or isrespect a 1 billion + religion. 172.202.246.237 21:34, 5 July 2006 (UTC)Nad
This article cannot figure out whether it is about Saudi Arabia or about Muslims in general. There is so much personal opinion and bigotry here I cannot sort it all out. I have removed an entire section because it was completely someones opinion and had no sources to link these countries with mutaween. Please do not spread your anti-Muslim holy wars here on Wikipedia. AlMuslimeen 05:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
What other countries do have or have had Mutaween, i know the talaban in afganistan did so they should be here,anyone else. Hypnosadist 12:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Accusing a source of "partisanship" is not the same as proving it inaccurate.-- Mike18xx 22:40, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Itagallah, please provide us poor, flounding Wikipedians with a list of some sources with are (A) not "unacceptably biased" in your eyes while simultaneously not (B) stooges of Islamist propaganda in my eyes. Prior to then, I suggest refraining from removal of an otherwise verifiable source for no other reason than that you don't like them.-- Mike18xx 23:20, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
The above comment is a prime example of the POV differences that underlie this issue, many secular western laws have there first origin in the Ten Commandments but in europe they now "calibrate" to the European declaration of Human rights, in america to the Constitution. This should be made clear in this article Someway. Hypnosadist 16:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Iran doesn't have especial police for religious issues and Iran's ordinary police or some other forces like Basij execute lows in this case. There isn't any difference between crimes in Iran as religious and secular.-- Sa.vakilian 14:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC) These are the sites of Islamic republic of Iran police : [2] and [3]
In Islamic republic of Iran there isn't any distinction among crimes and murder, theft, drinking alcohol and other crimes are the same.
Police in Tehran ordered to arrest women in 'un-Islamic' dress] and Iran's fashion police put on a show of chadors to stem west's cultural invasion, Iran crackdown on New Year revellers These are about police not religious police.
-- Sa.vakilian 15:19, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
(کمیته های انقلاب اسلامی)
I think that the Saudi Arabian section should be the first for several reasons. The first and i think foremost being that the word Mutaween is saudi in origin. Second that this is the most well sourced section and third is the least controversial. Hypnosadist 16:12, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
User:Sa.vakilian has deleted this entire section without compunction & left an unrelated remark at the edit summary.-- Wiki2Go 21:55, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
- The government relied on "special units" (yegan ha-ye vizhe), to complement the existing morality police, called "Enjoining the Good and Prohibiting the Forbidden" (Amr be Ma'ruf va Nahi az Monkar) in an effort to combat "un-Islamic behavior" and social corruption among the young. These auxiliaries were to assist in enforcing the Islamic Republic's strict rules of moral behavior. Credible press reports indicated members of this morality force chased and beat persons in the streets for offenses such as listening to music or, in the case of women, wearing makeup or clothing regarded as insufficiently modest or being accompanied by unrelated men [1].
This is an Islamic practice. I don't understand why User:Sa.vakilian cringes and feels so ashamed to delete even the talk page sections. The mullahs are purposely doing this to win the support of the ulema around the globe. I surmise that they prefer to advertise it as much as the nuclear program. Your censoring in fact gives credibility to those who claim Iran is un-Islamic, run by Shias, and try to divide Muslims.-- NotSoFast3 07:13, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
There isn't especial police force for religious crimes in Iran. On one hand most of the crimes including theft, murder, adultery and etc are religious. On the other hand Police is responsible for confronting every crime, although there were another forces in the past who confront with crime but after Qalibaf's reforms all of them are managed by police of Iran.-- Sa.vakilian 15:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
There are some claims in the article and I check all of them one by one:
We can say after Islamic Revolution religious crimes are recognized and religious punishments are recognized as legitimate punishment by law. But there haven't been any especial police force for it. I
Jamal Karimi-Rad was the speaker of judiciary system of Iran and he said this organization wants to co-work with others. I can't understand its relationship with this article.
I can't understand its relationship with the issue of this article.
Yes, there is official code for women dress on the basis of hijab and some women are employed by police force to confront female guilty in any case like theft and murder. They're usual police force like others.
Citation needed.
Basij is not police force. They're under supervision of Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps. In some cases they help police force.
I like somebody describe relationship between interior ministry, the Basij of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards and Ansar e Hezbollah and religious police force.
Citation needed.
What's the relationship.
There is the list of the units of police of Iran [14]:
Ok. Which one of them religious or moral. I say all of them. Because every crime recognized as religius crime in Islamic republic. -- Sa.vakilian( t- c) 05:37, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
You can't find any law in Iran which speaks about religious police but you can find law about
religious punishment.--
Sa.vakilian
16:20, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
User:Patchouli, User:NotSoFast3, User:Wiki2Go or who else oppose above discussion, you should answer by adding fact one by one. I know the police force of Iran executes low and punished un-Islamic behavior but there isn't any law which separate police to religious and irreligious parts. There is just one police force who executes low. But there isn't anything as religious police in Iran. There might be some formal and informal groups who do so but today just police execute the low. Why there isn't such police unit? because crimes haven't been divided to Islamic and secular in Islamic republic. Murder and theft are religious crimes as well as drinking alcohol and prostitution. There is the list of the units of police of Iran [15]:
Ok. Which one of them religious or moral. I say all of them. Because every crime recognized as religius crime in Islamic republic. -- Sa.vakilian( t- c) 05:37, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
-- Sa.vakilian( t- c) 05:37, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
If it's just matter of a force being recognised by the state, there are a few, such as Ansar-e Hezbollah. But most importantly, there are those that operate in universities, I have forgotten the name. But even BBC recognises that "religious police" operates in Iran [16]. I think they may also be referred to as "Morality police" -- Rayis 09:28, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
-- IslamicIran 01:22, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
while the mutaween are some of the more well known morality police, there are others, both legal and extra-legal. This usually occurs in asia. http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,395996,00.html (india)
morality police can range from police cracking down on courting couples to vigilante groups attacking anyone who they deem is being "immoral"
strictly speaking, morality police would be any group who violently and publicly oppose what they think is "immoral", but generally are social conservatives.
i feel that since the term "morality police" is a pan-religious term, it should be expanded to include all kinds of morality policing, not just the Mutaween, since pointing the "morality police" section to the mutaween gives the impression they are the only morality police out there LKGeek 12:07, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
What would people think of creating a new article under one of the names above with the information in this article going either to the new article, or the article on the Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (i.e. the article on the official mutaween)? -- Leroy65X 16:52, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Any objections? -- BoogaLouie 22:56, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
According to the Arabic dictionary under root ط-و-ع , the literal meaning of the word would appear to be "volunteer"... AnonMoos 22:51, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
It is also important to note the historical use of this term within Saudi Arabia. The early Mutawa'a as defined by Madawi Al-Rasheed in A History of Saudi Arabia, was a term for specifically Najdi men of religion in the formative period of the state of Saudi Arabia. They differed from other religious scholars, known as ulama in other parts of the Islamic world, for their insistence of Hanbali fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence), “considered other branches of the religious and linguistic sciences as intellectual luxuries that were not needed in their own society” The Mutawa‘a were particularly concerned with ritualistic Islam rather than wider Islamic scholarship. The religious specialists were active in state building and would continue to serve this role throughout history, whereas the ikhwan “were a crucial military force created as a result of the mutawwa‘a’s efforts for the purpose of Sa‘udi expansions.”
The mutawwa‘a, it seems, had little legitimacy of their own until the Ibn Saud's capture of Riyadh in 1902. After this point, their rule of law, which included stringent “discipline and punishment,” essentially domesticated the various Arabian population centers into reaccepting the authority of Ibn Sa‘ud. Most importantly, the alliance between the Sa‘ud and the scholars allowed ritual functions to have a crucial role in state formation. Ibn Sa‘ud was legitimate as an imam for this group, so long as he recognized and enforced shari‘a to their interpretation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Madeleinehayden ( talk • contribs) 19:19, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
{{LawinAsia}}
Hello. I wonder if anyone can write a few paragraphs about the history of mutaween. When was the committee for the prevention of vice established, what were its forerunners, when did it assume its present-day significance, that sort of thing. Have a great day. 4.227.233.20 ( talk) 19:50, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
I have attempted to wikify this note:
-- BoogaLouie ( talk) 23:07, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
I type in Religious Police and get this. Surely Saudi Arabia isn't the only country with religious police, is it? One could argue that, here in America, there is religious police here. We were tried for sodomy in many states until 2003, for example. Thoughts? GnarlyLikeWhoa ( talk) 16:23, 9 March 2009 (UTC) The Mutaween aren't quite the same. They are subjected to the Church, not to the state and exist separately. Although there are a plenty of states comparably conservative in America the religious law there is executed formally as the will of the people, not as that of the church. 79.216.167.243 ( talk) 01:33, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
It has been suggested that The Religious Policeman entry should be merged with this one. I disagree for the following reasons:
- This entry describes the role, rationale and activities of Mutaween or Religious Policemen. 'The Religious Policeman' entry describes a blog which uses that title because it satirises the Saudi Religious Police, the Saudi Arabian government, and human rights within Saudi Arabia. The orientations and subject matter of the two entries therefore differ greatly.
- Any merging of the two entries would bring together two communities whose outlook could be widely different, strongly antipathetic, and lead to unnecessary conflict. This entry will largely appeal to Muslims whose religious and cultural outlook tends to be serious and traditional. The entry for 'The Religious Policeman' will appeal to a wider international and multi-religious community whose attitude to Islam will vary from dubious to explicity antagonistic.
- This entry falls within the scope of the Law Enforcement project. The 'Religious Policeman' entry falls within the scope of the Blogging project. These different classifications alone argue that the two entries should remain separate.
PJO'M ( talk) 11:02, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
It seems to this Westerner that the only notable cases of the Saudi or other mutaween arresting or harassing people for homosexuality is in regards to male sexuality. Are lesbians and/or bisexual women ignored by the religious police? - 75.57.7.223 ( talk) 19:31, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I hope this is true but I suspect it is not. It smacks of wishful thinking by some regular Saudi who (quite understandably) hates the Mutawi'in. Do we have any sources for this?
-- Lyphatma ( talk) 05:56, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
The Arabic meaning of the word "Mutawwa'" is not "volunteer", rather it carries the meaning of enforcement.
The word in Arabic is from the root "ط و ع" which relates to "will".
The variation might not be clear in non-Arabic writings; however, in Arabic the word "مطوع" can carry many meanings, including:
The common usage of the word in Saudi Arabia suggests meaning 3 or 4 above. If meaning 1 was intended, then the pronunciation of the word would be different.
There is also a chance that the local dialect is the cause of the confusion.
Fahapro (
talk)
14:57, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Mutaween redirect. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
Talk Archive:
i suggest to chang the name Mutaween because in saudi the name Mutaween mean (religious man) and so any one who come to saudi well very confeosed so i suggest to use there offical name (hesbah) or the more commen name haia'a (arabic:هيئه) if any one think otherwise reply -- Arabian soul 11:25, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
August 28, 2007: The "etymology" section does not include any etymology. It would be interesting to have some. --yerubal
What makes Iran and Nigeria " Islamist". Saudi Arabia would consider itself salafi'ist rather than Wahabbi'ist, but calling it Islamist would be acceptable. Would it not make more sense to refer to them as Muslim nations? -- Irishpunktom\ talk 11:51, September 6, 2005 (UTC)
I removed the last paragraph under the Duties of the Mutaween section:
This is unencyclopedic commentary. I actually agree with the statement "Most probably, this Western View is true" but such commentary has no place in a NPOV encyclopedia.-- Brentt 21:15, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Brennt, most probably you are right. But: we really do nmot like these guys, accordingly, it shall be allowed to express some disgust.--
Lotse5000
11:27, 9 November 2005 (UTC)--
Due to the size of this page, I have archived topics earlier than June 2005. They can be accessed from the link at top.-- み使い Mitsukai 02:15, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
I totally agree with the earlier posts, this article used particular words that weren't necessarily applicable. Additionally, the "mutaween" events in "secular democracies" is pretty misleading - I mean, it was a group affiliated with an offshot of the NOI that was angry about Yemeni store owners selling liquor in black communities in Oakland. -- Sir192
I may be ignorant on the subject, but from what I understand, the Mutaween and the Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice are the same thing. Perhaps that article should be merged into this one? -- Tbook 23:26, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
... Never mind. I figured out that Mutaween is the general term in any Islamic state, and the Committee is specific to Saudi Arabia. -- Tbook 23:28, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Among several accuracy issues at this article is the section I have just tagged regarding nations featuring "mutaween" - the section offers a subjective and flawed definition of what constitutes "mutaween" in those countries and no sources are offered to back up such claims. Iran, for instance, does not have any police force described as "mutaween." SouthernComfort 03:28, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
the website of austria's national public-service broadcaster ORF states [1]:
is there any reference for the gestapo-connection ? -- Cherubino 17:57, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
-- 172.202.246.237 21:34, 5 July 2006 (UTC)ame==Baseej?==
I dont think Iran's Baseej really falls under the "Mutaween". The komite did. But not the Baseej.
Although they do enforce moral laws here and there nowadays, they are more of a political paramilitary group. They would rise in conflict against other clerics and Islamic groups of Iran, if necessary.
Their founding is especially tied to the Iran-Iraq war.-- Zereshk 15:23, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
I would just like to point out that the Saudi Arabian Mutaween cannot have been formed by converted by gestapo members in 1945 as Saudi Arabia did not exist until a long time afterwards. Plus I found the comments by some people about islam on this page to be complete ignorance. If you want to make opinionated comments at least know what you are talking about before you talk shit or isrespect a 1 billion + religion. 172.202.246.237 21:34, 5 July 2006 (UTC)Nad
This article cannot figure out whether it is about Saudi Arabia or about Muslims in general. There is so much personal opinion and bigotry here I cannot sort it all out. I have removed an entire section because it was completely someones opinion and had no sources to link these countries with mutaween. Please do not spread your anti-Muslim holy wars here on Wikipedia. AlMuslimeen 05:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
What other countries do have or have had Mutaween, i know the talaban in afganistan did so they should be here,anyone else. Hypnosadist 12:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Accusing a source of "partisanship" is not the same as proving it inaccurate.-- Mike18xx 22:40, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Itagallah, please provide us poor, flounding Wikipedians with a list of some sources with are (A) not "unacceptably biased" in your eyes while simultaneously not (B) stooges of Islamist propaganda in my eyes. Prior to then, I suggest refraining from removal of an otherwise verifiable source for no other reason than that you don't like them.-- Mike18xx 23:20, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
The above comment is a prime example of the POV differences that underlie this issue, many secular western laws have there first origin in the Ten Commandments but in europe they now "calibrate" to the European declaration of Human rights, in america to the Constitution. This should be made clear in this article Someway. Hypnosadist 16:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Iran doesn't have especial police for religious issues and Iran's ordinary police or some other forces like Basij execute lows in this case. There isn't any difference between crimes in Iran as religious and secular.-- Sa.vakilian 14:32, 9 February 2007 (UTC) These are the sites of Islamic republic of Iran police : [2] and [3]
In Islamic republic of Iran there isn't any distinction among crimes and murder, theft, drinking alcohol and other crimes are the same.
Police in Tehran ordered to arrest women in 'un-Islamic' dress] and Iran's fashion police put on a show of chadors to stem west's cultural invasion, Iran crackdown on New Year revellers These are about police not religious police.
-- Sa.vakilian 15:19, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
(کمیته های انقلاب اسلامی)
I think that the Saudi Arabian section should be the first for several reasons. The first and i think foremost being that the word Mutaween is saudi in origin. Second that this is the most well sourced section and third is the least controversial. Hypnosadist 16:12, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
User:Sa.vakilian has deleted this entire section without compunction & left an unrelated remark at the edit summary.-- Wiki2Go 21:55, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
- The government relied on "special units" (yegan ha-ye vizhe), to complement the existing morality police, called "Enjoining the Good and Prohibiting the Forbidden" (Amr be Ma'ruf va Nahi az Monkar) in an effort to combat "un-Islamic behavior" and social corruption among the young. These auxiliaries were to assist in enforcing the Islamic Republic's strict rules of moral behavior. Credible press reports indicated members of this morality force chased and beat persons in the streets for offenses such as listening to music or, in the case of women, wearing makeup or clothing regarded as insufficiently modest or being accompanied by unrelated men [1].
This is an Islamic practice. I don't understand why User:Sa.vakilian cringes and feels so ashamed to delete even the talk page sections. The mullahs are purposely doing this to win the support of the ulema around the globe. I surmise that they prefer to advertise it as much as the nuclear program. Your censoring in fact gives credibility to those who claim Iran is un-Islamic, run by Shias, and try to divide Muslims.-- NotSoFast3 07:13, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
There isn't especial police force for religious crimes in Iran. On one hand most of the crimes including theft, murder, adultery and etc are religious. On the other hand Police is responsible for confronting every crime, although there were another forces in the past who confront with crime but after Qalibaf's reforms all of them are managed by police of Iran.-- Sa.vakilian 15:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
There are some claims in the article and I check all of them one by one:
We can say after Islamic Revolution religious crimes are recognized and religious punishments are recognized as legitimate punishment by law. But there haven't been any especial police force for it. I
Jamal Karimi-Rad was the speaker of judiciary system of Iran and he said this organization wants to co-work with others. I can't understand its relationship with this article.
I can't understand its relationship with the issue of this article.
Yes, there is official code for women dress on the basis of hijab and some women are employed by police force to confront female guilty in any case like theft and murder. They're usual police force like others.
Citation needed.
Basij is not police force. They're under supervision of Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps. In some cases they help police force.
I like somebody describe relationship between interior ministry, the Basij of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards and Ansar e Hezbollah and religious police force.
Citation needed.
What's the relationship.
There is the list of the units of police of Iran [14]:
Ok. Which one of them religious or moral. I say all of them. Because every crime recognized as religius crime in Islamic republic. -- Sa.vakilian( t- c) 05:37, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
You can't find any law in Iran which speaks about religious police but you can find law about
religious punishment.--
Sa.vakilian
16:20, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
User:Patchouli, User:NotSoFast3, User:Wiki2Go or who else oppose above discussion, you should answer by adding fact one by one. I know the police force of Iran executes low and punished un-Islamic behavior but there isn't any law which separate police to religious and irreligious parts. There is just one police force who executes low. But there isn't anything as religious police in Iran. There might be some formal and informal groups who do so but today just police execute the low. Why there isn't such police unit? because crimes haven't been divided to Islamic and secular in Islamic republic. Murder and theft are religious crimes as well as drinking alcohol and prostitution. There is the list of the units of police of Iran [15]:
Ok. Which one of them religious or moral. I say all of them. Because every crime recognized as religius crime in Islamic republic. -- Sa.vakilian( t- c) 05:37, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
-- Sa.vakilian( t- c) 05:37, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
If it's just matter of a force being recognised by the state, there are a few, such as Ansar-e Hezbollah. But most importantly, there are those that operate in universities, I have forgotten the name. But even BBC recognises that "religious police" operates in Iran [16]. I think they may also be referred to as "Morality police" -- Rayis 09:28, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
-- IslamicIran 01:22, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
while the mutaween are some of the more well known morality police, there are others, both legal and extra-legal. This usually occurs in asia. http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,395996,00.html (india)
morality police can range from police cracking down on courting couples to vigilante groups attacking anyone who they deem is being "immoral"
strictly speaking, morality police would be any group who violently and publicly oppose what they think is "immoral", but generally are social conservatives.
i feel that since the term "morality police" is a pan-religious term, it should be expanded to include all kinds of morality policing, not just the Mutaween, since pointing the "morality police" section to the mutaween gives the impression they are the only morality police out there LKGeek 12:07, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
What would people think of creating a new article under one of the names above with the information in this article going either to the new article, or the article on the Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (i.e. the article on the official mutaween)? -- Leroy65X 16:52, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Any objections? -- BoogaLouie 22:56, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
According to the Arabic dictionary under root ط-و-ع , the literal meaning of the word would appear to be "volunteer"... AnonMoos 22:51, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
It is also important to note the historical use of this term within Saudi Arabia. The early Mutawa'a as defined by Madawi Al-Rasheed in A History of Saudi Arabia, was a term for specifically Najdi men of religion in the formative period of the state of Saudi Arabia. They differed from other religious scholars, known as ulama in other parts of the Islamic world, for their insistence of Hanbali fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence), “considered other branches of the religious and linguistic sciences as intellectual luxuries that were not needed in their own society” The Mutawa‘a were particularly concerned with ritualistic Islam rather than wider Islamic scholarship. The religious specialists were active in state building and would continue to serve this role throughout history, whereas the ikhwan “were a crucial military force created as a result of the mutawwa‘a’s efforts for the purpose of Sa‘udi expansions.”
The mutawwa‘a, it seems, had little legitimacy of their own until the Ibn Saud's capture of Riyadh in 1902. After this point, their rule of law, which included stringent “discipline and punishment,” essentially domesticated the various Arabian population centers into reaccepting the authority of Ibn Sa‘ud. Most importantly, the alliance between the Sa‘ud and the scholars allowed ritual functions to have a crucial role in state formation. Ibn Sa‘ud was legitimate as an imam for this group, so long as he recognized and enforced shari‘a to their interpretation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Madeleinehayden ( talk • contribs) 19:19, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
{{LawinAsia}}
Hello. I wonder if anyone can write a few paragraphs about the history of mutaween. When was the committee for the prevention of vice established, what were its forerunners, when did it assume its present-day significance, that sort of thing. Have a great day. 4.227.233.20 ( talk) 19:50, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
I have attempted to wikify this note:
-- BoogaLouie ( talk) 23:07, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
I type in Religious Police and get this. Surely Saudi Arabia isn't the only country with religious police, is it? One could argue that, here in America, there is religious police here. We were tried for sodomy in many states until 2003, for example. Thoughts? GnarlyLikeWhoa ( talk) 16:23, 9 March 2009 (UTC) The Mutaween aren't quite the same. They are subjected to the Church, not to the state and exist separately. Although there are a plenty of states comparably conservative in America the religious law there is executed formally as the will of the people, not as that of the church. 79.216.167.243 ( talk) 01:33, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
It has been suggested that The Religious Policeman entry should be merged with this one. I disagree for the following reasons:
- This entry describes the role, rationale and activities of Mutaween or Religious Policemen. 'The Religious Policeman' entry describes a blog which uses that title because it satirises the Saudi Religious Police, the Saudi Arabian government, and human rights within Saudi Arabia. The orientations and subject matter of the two entries therefore differ greatly.
- Any merging of the two entries would bring together two communities whose outlook could be widely different, strongly antipathetic, and lead to unnecessary conflict. This entry will largely appeal to Muslims whose religious and cultural outlook tends to be serious and traditional. The entry for 'The Religious Policeman' will appeal to a wider international and multi-religious community whose attitude to Islam will vary from dubious to explicity antagonistic.
- This entry falls within the scope of the Law Enforcement project. The 'Religious Policeman' entry falls within the scope of the Blogging project. These different classifications alone argue that the two entries should remain separate.
PJO'M ( talk) 11:02, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
It seems to this Westerner that the only notable cases of the Saudi or other mutaween arresting or harassing people for homosexuality is in regards to male sexuality. Are lesbians and/or bisexual women ignored by the religious police? - 75.57.7.223 ( talk) 19:31, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I hope this is true but I suspect it is not. It smacks of wishful thinking by some regular Saudi who (quite understandably) hates the Mutawi'in. Do we have any sources for this?
-- Lyphatma ( talk) 05:56, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
The Arabic meaning of the word "Mutawwa'" is not "volunteer", rather it carries the meaning of enforcement.
The word in Arabic is from the root "ط و ع" which relates to "will".
The variation might not be clear in non-Arabic writings; however, in Arabic the word "مطوع" can carry many meanings, including:
The common usage of the word in Saudi Arabia suggests meaning 3 or 4 above. If meaning 1 was intended, then the pronunciation of the word would be different.
There is also a chance that the local dialect is the cause of the confusion.
Fahapro (
talk)
14:57, 20 July 2011 (UTC)