Music of the Trecento was one of the Music good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||
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Current status: Delisted good article |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Much of the current literature presents the Robertsbridge Codex as English (for instance the article Sources of keyboard music to 1660, §2: Individual sources in the New Grove). I would minimize its appearance in this article in favor of the Faenza codex. (Great start, Antandrus!). (Myke Cuthbert -- from before I remembered to sign) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mscuthbert ( talk • contribs) 12:49, 17 February 2006
Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. Currently this article does not include in-line citations. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. Agne 03:17, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
It may be just too early in the morning for me, but this article doesn't seem to present or address the fact that Trecento music was notated in a rhythmically precise manner, like Ars Nova notation. Should it? Or should it link to some discussion of it in another article? Thoughts? Dunkelweizen ( talk) 11:47, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Wow, you are highly qualified to work with this topic!!! (Just saw your page.) Over the next few months I may contribute on notation. I'm in the middle of my dissertation now, though, on a very different topic, so my participation will be minimal. Dunkelweizen ( talk) 17:17, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
The motet Ypocrite / Et Gaudebit is not part of the trecento musical style, so I've removed it from this article. It could be placed in articles on ars antiqua music or Notre Dame. -- Myke Cuthbert (talk) 17:10, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Starting GA reassessment as part of the GA Sweeps process. Jezhotwells ( talk) 20:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
I need to ask how someone can know whether an article follows NPOV if the assessor doesn't know any of the points of view on the topic? If he or she hasn't read any of the sources cited and doesn't know the field how do he or she know that the article doesn't present fringe views that no medieval musicologist would ever agree with? Assessments should be done by people who can tell if the article is Original Research or not even if all the sources are removed. It's not at all bad to say that someone might not be qualified to assess a particular article. I know that I'm not qualified for 99.9(99?)% of WP's articles; maybe the GAR squad can focus their energies on contacting people outside WP who might be able to assess and help improve an article. -- Myke Cuthbert (talk) 21:46, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
General Comment I know you boys have adduced your own criteria, but that's why I say who cares. Where in the how-to review process does it state that reviewers should have some kind of general knowledge of the subject in order to be able to make an assessment in the first place? Nowhere. That's why the GA has no credibility. Before you reviewed this article, did you think "hmm, I should go to Groves or the New Cambridge to bone up on the topic?" Doubt it, right? Look, I can slap a reference for something like
Greater independence of voices was characteristic of the music of this generation, and points of imitation are common; in addition, the uppermost voice is often highly ornamented. Landini's music was particularly admired for its lyricism and expressive intensity: his fame has endured for six hundred years, and numerous contemporary recordings exist of his work.
but how, exactly, are you going to be in any kind of position to determine whether my reference is itself reflective of the mainstream view? Are you familiar with what does and does not constitute the main academic resources in this particular field? Likely no. So what we have are reftag beancounters who hide behind the bogus principle of the "general reader". Textbooks are written for the general reader, but they are not edited or peer-reviewed by them. Before you decided to delist, did you pass by the Classical Music project to ask if any of the participants - including a number of editors who have musicological training - could take a look to see if the content was controversial or inaccurate or incomplete? Again no. You counted up the ref tags and said "hmmm not enough references, imma delist."
Frankly, these GAR's would be more credible if we had reviewers that were capable of providing some kind of content-driven responses (i.e. claim 'x' remains a matter of conjecture) rather than simply counting up the number of ref tags. In that event, your more general plaint regarding lack of cites would be received more sympathetically. Note, btw, I am not attacking you specifically; this is a problem with GA in general. I have actually done GA assessments but stopped after I realised that the whole thing was a waste of time b/c of the lack of even suggesting some kind of knowledge in the review process.
I appreciate your good faith in these efforts, but reviewing a topic about which you have no specific knowledge when a number of editors who do have that knowledge have worked on it comes across as so much rudeness and the GA folks should know better. Eusebeus ( talk) 23:14, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
I object to riddling this article with "fact" tags. I have listed all the sources from which I wrote this article, and there is nothing whatsoever controversial about the statements so tagged. Remember we need to serve our readers and meta-tags are for editors; "fact" tags are disruptive and completely unnecessary unless they apply to genuinely controversial statements. It's idiotic to repeat the same footnote over and over again. Antandrus (talk) 20:33, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
Music of the Trecento was one of the Music good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Delisted good article |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Much of the current literature presents the Robertsbridge Codex as English (for instance the article Sources of keyboard music to 1660, §2: Individual sources in the New Grove). I would minimize its appearance in this article in favor of the Faenza codex. (Great start, Antandrus!). (Myke Cuthbert -- from before I remembered to sign) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mscuthbert ( talk • contribs) 12:49, 17 February 2006
Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. Currently this article does not include in-line citations. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. Agne 03:17, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
It may be just too early in the morning for me, but this article doesn't seem to present or address the fact that Trecento music was notated in a rhythmically precise manner, like Ars Nova notation. Should it? Or should it link to some discussion of it in another article? Thoughts? Dunkelweizen ( talk) 11:47, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Wow, you are highly qualified to work with this topic!!! (Just saw your page.) Over the next few months I may contribute on notation. I'm in the middle of my dissertation now, though, on a very different topic, so my participation will be minimal. Dunkelweizen ( talk) 17:17, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
The motet Ypocrite / Et Gaudebit is not part of the trecento musical style, so I've removed it from this article. It could be placed in articles on ars antiqua music or Notre Dame. -- Myke Cuthbert (talk) 17:10, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Starting GA reassessment as part of the GA Sweeps process. Jezhotwells ( talk) 20:25, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
I need to ask how someone can know whether an article follows NPOV if the assessor doesn't know any of the points of view on the topic? If he or she hasn't read any of the sources cited and doesn't know the field how do he or she know that the article doesn't present fringe views that no medieval musicologist would ever agree with? Assessments should be done by people who can tell if the article is Original Research or not even if all the sources are removed. It's not at all bad to say that someone might not be qualified to assess a particular article. I know that I'm not qualified for 99.9(99?)% of WP's articles; maybe the GAR squad can focus their energies on contacting people outside WP who might be able to assess and help improve an article. -- Myke Cuthbert (talk) 21:46, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
General Comment I know you boys have adduced your own criteria, but that's why I say who cares. Where in the how-to review process does it state that reviewers should have some kind of general knowledge of the subject in order to be able to make an assessment in the first place? Nowhere. That's why the GA has no credibility. Before you reviewed this article, did you think "hmm, I should go to Groves or the New Cambridge to bone up on the topic?" Doubt it, right? Look, I can slap a reference for something like
Greater independence of voices was characteristic of the music of this generation, and points of imitation are common; in addition, the uppermost voice is often highly ornamented. Landini's music was particularly admired for its lyricism and expressive intensity: his fame has endured for six hundred years, and numerous contemporary recordings exist of his work.
but how, exactly, are you going to be in any kind of position to determine whether my reference is itself reflective of the mainstream view? Are you familiar with what does and does not constitute the main academic resources in this particular field? Likely no. So what we have are reftag beancounters who hide behind the bogus principle of the "general reader". Textbooks are written for the general reader, but they are not edited or peer-reviewed by them. Before you decided to delist, did you pass by the Classical Music project to ask if any of the participants - including a number of editors who have musicological training - could take a look to see if the content was controversial or inaccurate or incomplete? Again no. You counted up the ref tags and said "hmmm not enough references, imma delist."
Frankly, these GAR's would be more credible if we had reviewers that were capable of providing some kind of content-driven responses (i.e. claim 'x' remains a matter of conjecture) rather than simply counting up the number of ref tags. In that event, your more general plaint regarding lack of cites would be received more sympathetically. Note, btw, I am not attacking you specifically; this is a problem with GA in general. I have actually done GA assessments but stopped after I realised that the whole thing was a waste of time b/c of the lack of even suggesting some kind of knowledge in the review process.
I appreciate your good faith in these efforts, but reviewing a topic about which you have no specific knowledge when a number of editors who do have that knowledge have worked on it comes across as so much rudeness and the GA folks should know better. Eusebeus ( talk) 23:14, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
I object to riddling this article with "fact" tags. I have listed all the sources from which I wrote this article, and there is nothing whatsoever controversial about the statements so tagged. Remember we need to serve our readers and meta-tags are for editors; "fact" tags are disruptive and completely unnecessary unless they apply to genuinely controversial statements. It's idiotic to repeat the same footnote over and over again. Antandrus (talk) 20:33, 19 July 2009 (UTC)