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The consensus is against including the sexuality information in the article per the four points raised by Collect.
Cunard (
talk) 00:47, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The sexuality info
added is disputed by interpretation of
WP:BLP's rule on categorization. Does
Metrosource make actor Bartlett's sexuality notable? Would the person's sexuality be notable in any way? Why or why not? How? --
George Ho (
talk) 01:31, 13 August 2016 (UTC)reply
Not usable First of all, the "source" does not meet
WP:RS. Second, at no point in the interview does Bartlett actually state that he is gay. Third, Wikipedia requites strong reliable self-identification fir such claims about sexuality. Fourth, sexuality is not used in a BLP unless it is part of the person's specific notability. Four strikes.
Collect (
talk) 13:09, 15 August 2016 (UTC)reply
No per
Collect - A) The source isn't a
Reliable source and shouldn't ever be used on an encyclopedia, B) There needs to be alot more than just one "source", and last but not least C) Unless they're notable for being gay then it shouldn't even be in the article and if the SPA readds it again they'll probably be blocked. –
Davey2010Talk 15:32, 15 August 2016 (UTC)reply
Re the quality of the source used. The editor probably should have used one of the more notable sources littering the google search to support the claim.
[1]Rainthe 1 23:40, 15 August 2016 (UTC)reply
The NYP (not a paragon for "celebrity gossip" by the way) makes their entire comment "who is gay and has a partner" which does not rise to meet any level of "self-identification" as required on Wikipedia. The article is about the show being cancelled, and not actually about Bartlett.
Collect (
talk) 00:04, 16 August 2016 (UTC)reply
Hello Collect. Thank you and point taken. I was just trying to help but probably should have spent extra time searching a source. Hopefully the editor reads that too as you explained it very well. Perhaps they could have used this source, assuming it needed mentioning in the article -
[2]Rainthe 1 01:38, 16 August 2016 (UTC)reply
I don't know,
Rain. Are you sure that the source makes the guy's sexuality notable per
WP:BLPCAT? Certain people would oppose the inclusion as non-notable.
George Ho (
talk) 03:49, 16 August 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Stanton and
Collect: What about the interview with Australia's Channel Nine? Does it help?
George Ho (
talk) 18:24, 16 August 2016 (UTC)reply
Probably not, since it would appear to have nothing to do with the subject's notability. Whether it's an attempt by the LGBT community to "claim" Bartlett, or an attempt by others to cast aspersions on him for his alleged sexual preference in a conservative political climate, it doesn't really seem appropriate here. Contrast this sharply with, say,
Harvey Milk, who was openly gay and campaigning in part on a platform appealing to the gay vote, and shot in a hate-crime. —
SMcCandlish ☺☏¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 20:47, 16 August 2016 (UTC)reply PS: Issues like this are an example of why I mostly stay out of BLP editing. It's not like working on an article about the
Manx cat or
albinism, where whatever facts that can be sourced can be included if they're relevant. BLPs have a lot of sensitivity rules. —
SMcCandlish ☺☏¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 20:49, 16 August 2016 (UTC)reply
No per all four of Collect's points. The self-identification thing is key, not least because the press often misidentifies bisexuals and pansexuals as "gay". —
SMcCandlish ☺☏¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 12:10, 16 August 2016 (UTC)reply
No - As above, the claim is not supported by reliable enough sources, nor is this even relevant to his notability.
Meatsgains (
talk) 18:55, 16 August 2016 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following
WikiProjects:
Murray Bartlett is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of
Australia and
Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the
project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBT studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all
LGBT-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the
project page or contribute to the
discussion.LGBT studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBT studiesLGBT articles
The consensus is against including the sexuality information in the article per the four points raised by Collect.
Cunard (
talk) 00:47, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The sexuality info
added is disputed by interpretation of
WP:BLP's rule on categorization. Does
Metrosource make actor Bartlett's sexuality notable? Would the person's sexuality be notable in any way? Why or why not? How? --
George Ho (
talk) 01:31, 13 August 2016 (UTC)reply
Not usable First of all, the "source" does not meet
WP:RS. Second, at no point in the interview does Bartlett actually state that he is gay. Third, Wikipedia requites strong reliable self-identification fir such claims about sexuality. Fourth, sexuality is not used in a BLP unless it is part of the person's specific notability. Four strikes.
Collect (
talk) 13:09, 15 August 2016 (UTC)reply
No per
Collect - A) The source isn't a
Reliable source and shouldn't ever be used on an encyclopedia, B) There needs to be alot more than just one "source", and last but not least C) Unless they're notable for being gay then it shouldn't even be in the article and if the SPA readds it again they'll probably be blocked. –
Davey2010Talk 15:32, 15 August 2016 (UTC)reply
Re the quality of the source used. The editor probably should have used one of the more notable sources littering the google search to support the claim.
[1]Rainthe 1 23:40, 15 August 2016 (UTC)reply
The NYP (not a paragon for "celebrity gossip" by the way) makes their entire comment "who is gay and has a partner" which does not rise to meet any level of "self-identification" as required on Wikipedia. The article is about the show being cancelled, and not actually about Bartlett.
Collect (
talk) 00:04, 16 August 2016 (UTC)reply
Hello Collect. Thank you and point taken. I was just trying to help but probably should have spent extra time searching a source. Hopefully the editor reads that too as you explained it very well. Perhaps they could have used this source, assuming it needed mentioning in the article -
[2]Rainthe 1 01:38, 16 August 2016 (UTC)reply
I don't know,
Rain. Are you sure that the source makes the guy's sexuality notable per
WP:BLPCAT? Certain people would oppose the inclusion as non-notable.
George Ho (
talk) 03:49, 16 August 2016 (UTC)reply
@
Stanton and
Collect: What about the interview with Australia's Channel Nine? Does it help?
George Ho (
talk) 18:24, 16 August 2016 (UTC)reply
Probably not, since it would appear to have nothing to do with the subject's notability. Whether it's an attempt by the LGBT community to "claim" Bartlett, or an attempt by others to cast aspersions on him for his alleged sexual preference in a conservative political climate, it doesn't really seem appropriate here. Contrast this sharply with, say,
Harvey Milk, who was openly gay and campaigning in part on a platform appealing to the gay vote, and shot in a hate-crime. —
SMcCandlish ☺☏¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 20:47, 16 August 2016 (UTC)reply PS: Issues like this are an example of why I mostly stay out of BLP editing. It's not like working on an article about the
Manx cat or
albinism, where whatever facts that can be sourced can be included if they're relevant. BLPs have a lot of sensitivity rules. —
SMcCandlish ☺☏¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 20:49, 16 August 2016 (UTC)reply
No per all four of Collect's points. The self-identification thing is key, not least because the press often misidentifies bisexuals and pansexuals as "gay". —
SMcCandlish ☺☏¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 12:10, 16 August 2016 (UTC)reply
No - As above, the claim is not supported by reliable enough sources, nor is this even relevant to his notability.
Meatsgains (
talk) 18:55, 16 August 2016 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.