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I'm rather stunned that the page has been moved from the original Murder of Nicola Hughes and Fiona Bone. There are no conceivable grounds for the deaths of two unarmed police officers by the use of a firearm and/or explosives to be regarded as anything other than unlawful, i.e. murder. Nick Cooper ( talk) 16:11, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
( ←) Clearly since Cregan had changed his plea to the murder charge to "guilty," we can stop the obfuscation, and re-name the page appropriately. Nick Cooper ( talk) 16:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
With Dale Cregan having been nominated for deletion yesterday, I'm absolutely stunned to see an article on this topic appearing here again today. Not only does this fall into the WP:NOTNEWS category, but as the incident happened only yesterday, it's far too early for this article to be here. Much of the information that's likely to be available on this will be purely of a speculative nature at this stage, particularly as a subject is yet to be charged. Paul MacDermott ( talk) 17:36, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
After the initial "news-worthiness" of the article has diminished, there will be hardly any new information to add to the article until after any criminal proceedings have been completed. It was the same with the annecey shootings recently, a big news story gets everyones attention, rumours fly everywhere and then things calm down until the next big news story comes along.Whilst what happened to these officers was dispicable, until all the full facts have been placed into the public domain, people are making half guesses about what really happened. I think the article is worthy of inclusion but only after more concrete facts are known. Markdarrly ( talk) 14:38, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Please could someone take a photo of the crime scene, Abbey Gardens.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 09:47, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
I have removed this because it seemed like an advert. Many places chose to undertake collections following the deaths of these officers but all of them are not expected to be listed. Before anybody complains that I am short-changing the families and PBF of income, I deleted it AFTER the event had taken place. Markdarrly ( talk) 08:32, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
The name of Dale Cregan should not be placed as the perpatrator as at this time we do not know what his plea will be and as such, naming him as the perp at this stage is not advisable. Maybe "alledged perp" would have been better, but even that could be viewed a prejudicial. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Markdarrly ( talk • contribs) 17:44, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Because so little information has been released from official sources, people contributing to this article should refrain from hear say or half truths. Wikipedia is a massive entity and it is quite possible that the very people who will sit on the jury when this case comes up for trial are reading this article and forming opinions. If opinions are to be formed, they should be formed on the basis of the known facts at that time and not as a result of a knee-jerk, over-reaction by angry individuals who need a name to blame. As awful and terrible as this crime was, the basis of British Justice is innocent until proven guilty and contributors should bear this in mind. Markdarrly ( talk) 20:42, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
This Guardian article will be of interest to any UK editors. JRPG ( talk) 22:53, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Its that old chestnut again, its all very well for a judge to tell a jury to discard any thoughts they have and not to look at the internet, but usually as soon as you tell a person not to do something, they will do the opposite and log on. Its called life. Markdarrly ( talk) 15:22, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Did the PC double murder happen in Hattersley or Mottram? The news mention both locations, and so does Wikipedia (see entry on Hattersley). Can anyone please clarify this for the sake of precision? Thank you ViennaUK ( talk) 14:12, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
A man who wore an anti-police T-shirt in public just hours after the killings was today jailed for four months, with an additional four months in connection with another offence. (BBC News) I'm not sure what section this would belong in, but it may be worth a brief mention as an associated event. Paul MacDermott ( talk) 19:11, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
A IP editor has twice removed reference to Paul Cregan's reported regret that the victims were women. I suggest that the matter be discussed here.
The source of the statement is the speech by prosecuting counsel at Cregan's trial as reported by the BBC. In that Cregan is said to have told the police he was 'sorry about those two that have been killed, I wish it was men'. There is no reason to doubt that those words were used. My view is that as the murders are notable partly because they were of female officers, and as the article reports that Cregan set out to kill police officers, it is right to mention that he claimed to regret killing women. That does not diminish the severity of the crime, and the evidence points to his knowing they were women when he killed them, but his motivation is so clearly a part of the events that I think that this is something that should be included. How we do so is of course for discussion. -- AJHingston ( talk) 08:44, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Formal request has been received to merge: Dale Cregan into Murders of Nicola Hughes and Fiona Bone; dated: September 19, 2020. Proposer's Rationale: Cregan has no indication of notability besides being the killer of the two officers and most of his article's content already exists in the murders article, similar to how most shooters articles are redirected to the shootings they committed. 108.41.60.144. Discuss here. GenQuest "Talk to Me" 05:11, 20 September 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Murders of Nicola Hughes and Fiona Bone article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I'm rather stunned that the page has been moved from the original Murder of Nicola Hughes and Fiona Bone. There are no conceivable grounds for the deaths of two unarmed police officers by the use of a firearm and/or explosives to be regarded as anything other than unlawful, i.e. murder. Nick Cooper ( talk) 16:11, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
( ←) Clearly since Cregan had changed his plea to the murder charge to "guilty," we can stop the obfuscation, and re-name the page appropriately. Nick Cooper ( talk) 16:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
With Dale Cregan having been nominated for deletion yesterday, I'm absolutely stunned to see an article on this topic appearing here again today. Not only does this fall into the WP:NOTNEWS category, but as the incident happened only yesterday, it's far too early for this article to be here. Much of the information that's likely to be available on this will be purely of a speculative nature at this stage, particularly as a subject is yet to be charged. Paul MacDermott ( talk) 17:36, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
After the initial "news-worthiness" of the article has diminished, there will be hardly any new information to add to the article until after any criminal proceedings have been completed. It was the same with the annecey shootings recently, a big news story gets everyones attention, rumours fly everywhere and then things calm down until the next big news story comes along.Whilst what happened to these officers was dispicable, until all the full facts have been placed into the public domain, people are making half guesses about what really happened. I think the article is worthy of inclusion but only after more concrete facts are known. Markdarrly ( talk) 14:38, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Please could someone take a photo of the crime scene, Abbey Gardens.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 09:47, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
I have removed this because it seemed like an advert. Many places chose to undertake collections following the deaths of these officers but all of them are not expected to be listed. Before anybody complains that I am short-changing the families and PBF of income, I deleted it AFTER the event had taken place. Markdarrly ( talk) 08:32, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
The name of Dale Cregan should not be placed as the perpatrator as at this time we do not know what his plea will be and as such, naming him as the perp at this stage is not advisable. Maybe "alledged perp" would have been better, but even that could be viewed a prejudicial. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Markdarrly ( talk • contribs) 17:44, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Because so little information has been released from official sources, people contributing to this article should refrain from hear say or half truths. Wikipedia is a massive entity and it is quite possible that the very people who will sit on the jury when this case comes up for trial are reading this article and forming opinions. If opinions are to be formed, they should be formed on the basis of the known facts at that time and not as a result of a knee-jerk, over-reaction by angry individuals who need a name to blame. As awful and terrible as this crime was, the basis of British Justice is innocent until proven guilty and contributors should bear this in mind. Markdarrly ( talk) 20:42, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
This Guardian article will be of interest to any UK editors. JRPG ( talk) 22:53, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Its that old chestnut again, its all very well for a judge to tell a jury to discard any thoughts they have and not to look at the internet, but usually as soon as you tell a person not to do something, they will do the opposite and log on. Its called life. Markdarrly ( talk) 15:22, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Did the PC double murder happen in Hattersley or Mottram? The news mention both locations, and so does Wikipedia (see entry on Hattersley). Can anyone please clarify this for the sake of precision? Thank you ViennaUK ( talk) 14:12, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
A man who wore an anti-police T-shirt in public just hours after the killings was today jailed for four months, with an additional four months in connection with another offence. (BBC News) I'm not sure what section this would belong in, but it may be worth a brief mention as an associated event. Paul MacDermott ( talk) 19:11, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
A IP editor has twice removed reference to Paul Cregan's reported regret that the victims were women. I suggest that the matter be discussed here.
The source of the statement is the speech by prosecuting counsel at Cregan's trial as reported by the BBC. In that Cregan is said to have told the police he was 'sorry about those two that have been killed, I wish it was men'. There is no reason to doubt that those words were used. My view is that as the murders are notable partly because they were of female officers, and as the article reports that Cregan set out to kill police officers, it is right to mention that he claimed to regret killing women. That does not diminish the severity of the crime, and the evidence points to his knowing they were women when he killed them, but his motivation is so clearly a part of the events that I think that this is something that should be included. How we do so is of course for discussion. -- AJHingston ( talk) 08:44, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Formal request has been received to merge: Dale Cregan into Murders of Nicola Hughes and Fiona Bone; dated: September 19, 2020. Proposer's Rationale: Cregan has no indication of notability besides being the killer of the two officers and most of his article's content already exists in the murders article, similar to how most shooters articles are redirected to the shootings they committed. 108.41.60.144. Discuss here. GenQuest "Talk to Me" 05:11, 20 September 2020 (UTC)