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Contested Edits
@ GenoV84: As I explained in the edit summaries, "Replaced "absolute monotheism" with "puritanism", as he can't be said to be the one who introduced the doctrine of "absolute monotheism", as affirmed by brown p.245, he called for a return to it." [1], ""Replaced "oppposition to religious innovations" to "opposition to sufism", more specific" - this is supported by sources in the article and other sources [2], we can bring them and discuss them on the talk page if you'd like. I do not contest that we find the wording in the source, but the infobox details "notable idea(s)" and "absolute monotheism" is not a new idea. [3]
I will revert the infobox content and await for your reply, please try and come to a consensus on here rather than reverting, biting on my talk page or leaving a misleading edit summary that lumps me in with IP vandals. ParthikS8 ( talk) 14:47, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
@ ParthikS8: Thank you for your reply. I'm fully aware that Wahhab didn't invent the concept of "absolute, unadulterated monotheism" within Islam, [4] and that he wasn't the first to criticize religious innovations, prayers and devotional practices towards saints, tombs and shrines within Islam; in fact, the sources clearly state that he was considered (and regarded himself) more as a puritanical-revivalist preacher and reformer rather than an experienced scholar, [5] but his "uncompromising message of strict monotheism that shunned many popular religious practices", [5] which he deemed idolatrous, constitutes the ideological core of Wahhab's doctrine and theology, and, as I said before, the sources state that he criticized and opposed devotional practices that were widespread among all Sunni Muslims during his lifetime, [4] [5] not only those who adhered to Sufism; in fact, his own family and brother, [4] [5] who were Hanbali jurists just like him, rejected his teachings alongside most Islamic scholars... [4] [5] [6] and they were not Sufis. Therefore, to make Wahhab simply look like an anti-Sufi puritan would be incorrect and a misrepresentation of his religious thought. Moreover, I disagree with presenting Wahhab's doctrine as "Salafi", because that would be partially incorrect: according to David Commins, the tendency to refer to Wahhab's doctrine as Salafi "is a recent development that first emerged among Wahhabism's defenders outside Arabia well before Wahhabis themselves adopted the term." [6]-- GenoV84 ( talk) 18:00, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
I think that first these should be made seperate ideas, soPuritanism,
opposition to Sufism
On the third line we should use a term that captures exactly what he is against. Previously, the notable ideas field saidPuritanism
Opposition to Sufism
I am not sure this quite captures all that he was against and it seems to make a judgement that which he opposed were innovations (and such judgements are not for Wikipedia to make). I would suggest "Opposition to perceived religious innovations within Islam" but this is far too long, we need something succinct.opposition to religious innovations within Islam
@ ParthikS8:
Sulayman [ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab] once asked his brother Muhammad [ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab], "How many are the pillars of Islam?" "Five," he answered. Sulayman replied, "No, you have added a sixth one: He who does not follow you is not a Muslim. This, to you, is the sixth pillar of Islam." [18]
Therefore, I think that the most appropriate insertion as the first line would be " Wahhabism", because it comprises Wahhab's theology and religious thought as a whole, then "Salafi Puritanism" as the second line and "Opposition to Sufism" as the third line, although he also opposed and criticized Shia Islam [15] and the Ottoman Empire [15] (the latter on a political and religious level), [15] [17] but these aren't new or notable ideas, as well as his opposition to Sufism and his puritanical-reformist approach to Sunni Muslim practices that he considered shirk and/or bidʻah.... In summary, if we had to indicate a specifically new and notable idea attributable only to Wahhab, it would be Wahhabism itself, since Wahhab is the founder of Wahhabism.-- GenoV84 ( talk) 13:38, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
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Change "rafidah, which is an extreme Islamic sect" to "rafidah, which he regarded as an extreme Islamic sect".
Note: His view was subjective, so the article needs to make it clear that that was his view rather than stating it as a fact. David.webb271327 ( talk) 14:20, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
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It is absolutely ridiculous to have this guy's name in calligraphy rather than show his picture. He is not a saint by any means, do not glorify him like this while treating other religious figures with less respect. Insane. 73.211.240.226 ( talk) 02:58, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 20:03, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 90 days |
This
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 4 sections are present. |
Contested Edits
@ GenoV84: As I explained in the edit summaries, "Replaced "absolute monotheism" with "puritanism", as he can't be said to be the one who introduced the doctrine of "absolute monotheism", as affirmed by brown p.245, he called for a return to it." [1], ""Replaced "oppposition to religious innovations" to "opposition to sufism", more specific" - this is supported by sources in the article and other sources [2], we can bring them and discuss them on the talk page if you'd like. I do not contest that we find the wording in the source, but the infobox details "notable idea(s)" and "absolute monotheism" is not a new idea. [3]
I will revert the infobox content and await for your reply, please try and come to a consensus on here rather than reverting, biting on my talk page or leaving a misleading edit summary that lumps me in with IP vandals. ParthikS8 ( talk) 14:47, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
@ ParthikS8: Thank you for your reply. I'm fully aware that Wahhab didn't invent the concept of "absolute, unadulterated monotheism" within Islam, [4] and that he wasn't the first to criticize religious innovations, prayers and devotional practices towards saints, tombs and shrines within Islam; in fact, the sources clearly state that he was considered (and regarded himself) more as a puritanical-revivalist preacher and reformer rather than an experienced scholar, [5] but his "uncompromising message of strict monotheism that shunned many popular religious practices", [5] which he deemed idolatrous, constitutes the ideological core of Wahhab's doctrine and theology, and, as I said before, the sources state that he criticized and opposed devotional practices that were widespread among all Sunni Muslims during his lifetime, [4] [5] not only those who adhered to Sufism; in fact, his own family and brother, [4] [5] who were Hanbali jurists just like him, rejected his teachings alongside most Islamic scholars... [4] [5] [6] and they were not Sufis. Therefore, to make Wahhab simply look like an anti-Sufi puritan would be incorrect and a misrepresentation of his religious thought. Moreover, I disagree with presenting Wahhab's doctrine as "Salafi", because that would be partially incorrect: according to David Commins, the tendency to refer to Wahhab's doctrine as Salafi "is a recent development that first emerged among Wahhabism's defenders outside Arabia well before Wahhabis themselves adopted the term." [6]-- GenoV84 ( talk) 18:00, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
I think that first these should be made seperate ideas, soPuritanism,
opposition to Sufism
On the third line we should use a term that captures exactly what he is against. Previously, the notable ideas field saidPuritanism
Opposition to Sufism
I am not sure this quite captures all that he was against and it seems to make a judgement that which he opposed were innovations (and such judgements are not for Wikipedia to make). I would suggest "Opposition to perceived religious innovations within Islam" but this is far too long, we need something succinct.opposition to religious innovations within Islam
@ ParthikS8:
Sulayman [ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab] once asked his brother Muhammad [ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab], "How many are the pillars of Islam?" "Five," he answered. Sulayman replied, "No, you have added a sixth one: He who does not follow you is not a Muslim. This, to you, is the sixth pillar of Islam." [18]
Therefore, I think that the most appropriate insertion as the first line would be " Wahhabism", because it comprises Wahhab's theology and religious thought as a whole, then "Salafi Puritanism" as the second line and "Opposition to Sufism" as the third line, although he also opposed and criticized Shia Islam [15] and the Ottoman Empire [15] (the latter on a political and religious level), [15] [17] but these aren't new or notable ideas, as well as his opposition to Sufism and his puritanical-reformist approach to Sunni Muslim practices that he considered shirk and/or bidʻah.... In summary, if we had to indicate a specifically new and notable idea attributable only to Wahhab, it would be Wahhabism itself, since Wahhab is the founder of Wahhabism.-- GenoV84 ( talk) 13:38, 4 July 2020 (UTC)
References
{{
cite book}}
: Invalid |ref=harv
(
help)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "rafidah, which is an extreme Islamic sect" to "rafidah, which he regarded as an extreme Islamic sect".
Note: His view was subjective, so the article needs to make it clear that that was his view rather than stating it as a fact. David.webb271327 ( talk) 14:20, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
It is absolutely ridiculous to have this guy's name in calligraphy rather than show his picture. He is not a saint by any means, do not glorify him like this while treating other religious figures with less respect. Insane. 73.211.240.226 ( talk) 02:58, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 20:03, 23 January 2023 (UTC)