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Although he is referred to as "Boabdil" in Spanish the word itself is a Spanish "corruption" and not a "rendering", this is a mis-statement. Moughera ( talk) 12:21, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
The place where Boabdil turned to look at his beloved Granada for the last time is actually called "El Suspiro del Moro" (the sigh of the Mooor)
David Santamaria, 20-Apr-05
Question : there is a question about the place of his death and resting place. His grave is said by the inhabitants of Tlemcen (Algeria) and Fes (Marocco) to be in their respective cities. In Tlemcen, the gravestone is said to have been taken by the french in Tlemcen (1847) and sent to the international exhibition in Paris (1898) where it would have misteriously disappeard (source : Mr. El Hassar Bénali). Does anybody knows something about this controversy ? We lack so much sources about the life of Muhammad XII of Gharnata...
Jibrîl 09-apr-2006
Date of Death?
The article starts by listing his lifespan as:
(1460?–1527)
But later on says:
... but he soon crossed the Strait of Gibraltar to Fez, where he died in 1533.
-- Aapold 01:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm trying to find sources for this union, or even the existence of Aixa, and haven't yet found anything but links back to other Wikipedia articles. The footnote here is not to a reliable source, but to someone's blog entry. Given that Boabdil's life has been highly mythologized, it wouldn't surprise me that Aixa is another legend, though not one than I can source at all.
- Eileen R 161.184.107.221 ( talk) 03:24, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Given the period described, perhaps "Spain" should be replaced by the names of the relevant political entities (Catholic Monarchs, Kingdom of Aragon, Kingdom of Castile) or geographic denominations (Iberia, Southern Iberia, Iberian Peninsula and so forth) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.124.65.6 ( talk) 13:00, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
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Is the numbering XI or XII? Seeing multiple sources which list him at XI (e.g. Collins English Dictionary and Larousse). Gotitbro ( talk) 14:40, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
Was Boabdil really the only Muhammad XII? Because the latter title seems a bit ambiguous. Snowstormfigorion ( talk) 11:43, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
@ Snowstormfigorion: on what basis are you claiming that this image is a "later copy"? The new file actually has a source with background information on the painting, unlike the other file. Perhaps @ Saguescabe can comment if they know anything more. Even if it were a copy, what difference does it make when it's clearly a higher quality image of exactly the same thing? R Prazeres ( talk) 16:50, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
The current caption calls the image both an engraving and a painting. This does not inspire confidence. I would restore the oil painting. The title at the top of the engraving would seem to indicate it is of a painting. I suppose the oil painting could be a recreationg based on an engraving, but then what reason is there to prefer the engraving over the painting if it all goes back to a lost painting? Srnec ( talk) 15:17, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
Lead images should be natural and appropriate representations of the topic; they should not only illustrate the topic specifically, but also be the type of image used for similar purposes in high-quality reference works, and therefore what our readers will expect to see.", applies here. Though–on a merely representational level–of all the portraits of Muhammad XII, using one of him with bloodshot eyes should be a last approach; I'd even go on to say that the MOS's "appropriate representation" could be argued on this. Snowstormfigorion ( talk) 16:12, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
Several historians affirm that Boabdil died in Tlemsen and not in Fez here are some sources: https://www.google.fr/books/edition/Compl%C3%A9ment_de_l_histoire_des_Beni_Zeiya/EYcBAAAAMAAJ?hl=fr&gbpv=1&dq=asile+tlemcen+boabdil&pg=PA403&printsec=frontcover https://cths.fr/an/savant.php?id=109835 https://www.google.fr/books/edition/Jews_Christians_and_Muslims_in_the_Medit/hZfrAgAAQBAJ?hl=fr&gbpv=1&dq=%22boabdil%22+%22tlemcen%22&pg=PA56&printsec=frontcover https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k320790b/f427.image.r=boabdil%20tlemcen%20%C3%A9pitaphe?rk=150215;2 The Moor's Last Stand How Seven Centuries of Muslim Rule in Spain Came to an End By Elizabeth Drayson
so it would be better to specify that he died in North Africa rather than in a specific place to avoid problems and debates 2A01:E0A:13C:64E0:F91E:8E1B:44B7:970A ( talk) 16:36, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on January 2, 2008. |
Although he is referred to as "Boabdil" in Spanish the word itself is a Spanish "corruption" and not a "rendering", this is a mis-statement. Moughera ( talk) 12:21, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
The place where Boabdil turned to look at his beloved Granada for the last time is actually called "El Suspiro del Moro" (the sigh of the Mooor)
David Santamaria, 20-Apr-05
Question : there is a question about the place of his death and resting place. His grave is said by the inhabitants of Tlemcen (Algeria) and Fes (Marocco) to be in their respective cities. In Tlemcen, the gravestone is said to have been taken by the french in Tlemcen (1847) and sent to the international exhibition in Paris (1898) where it would have misteriously disappeard (source : Mr. El Hassar Bénali). Does anybody knows something about this controversy ? We lack so much sources about the life of Muhammad XII of Gharnata...
Jibrîl 09-apr-2006
Date of Death?
The article starts by listing his lifespan as:
(1460?–1527)
But later on says:
... but he soon crossed the Strait of Gibraltar to Fez, where he died in 1533.
-- Aapold 01:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm trying to find sources for this union, or even the existence of Aixa, and haven't yet found anything but links back to other Wikipedia articles. The footnote here is not to a reliable source, but to someone's blog entry. Given that Boabdil's life has been highly mythologized, it wouldn't surprise me that Aixa is another legend, though not one than I can source at all.
- Eileen R 161.184.107.221 ( talk) 03:24, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Given the period described, perhaps "Spain" should be replaced by the names of the relevant political entities (Catholic Monarchs, Kingdom of Aragon, Kingdom of Castile) or geographic denominations (Iberia, Southern Iberia, Iberian Peninsula and so forth) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.124.65.6 ( talk) 13:00, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Muhammad XII of Granada. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Is the numbering XI or XII? Seeing multiple sources which list him at XI (e.g. Collins English Dictionary and Larousse). Gotitbro ( talk) 14:40, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
Was Boabdil really the only Muhammad XII? Because the latter title seems a bit ambiguous. Snowstormfigorion ( talk) 11:43, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
@ Snowstormfigorion: on what basis are you claiming that this image is a "later copy"? The new file actually has a source with background information on the painting, unlike the other file. Perhaps @ Saguescabe can comment if they know anything more. Even if it were a copy, what difference does it make when it's clearly a higher quality image of exactly the same thing? R Prazeres ( talk) 16:50, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
The current caption calls the image both an engraving and a painting. This does not inspire confidence. I would restore the oil painting. The title at the top of the engraving would seem to indicate it is of a painting. I suppose the oil painting could be a recreationg based on an engraving, but then what reason is there to prefer the engraving over the painting if it all goes back to a lost painting? Srnec ( talk) 15:17, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
Lead images should be natural and appropriate representations of the topic; they should not only illustrate the topic specifically, but also be the type of image used for similar purposes in high-quality reference works, and therefore what our readers will expect to see.", applies here. Though–on a merely representational level–of all the portraits of Muhammad XII, using one of him with bloodshot eyes should be a last approach; I'd even go on to say that the MOS's "appropriate representation" could be argued on this. Snowstormfigorion ( talk) 16:12, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
Several historians affirm that Boabdil died in Tlemsen and not in Fez here are some sources: https://www.google.fr/books/edition/Compl%C3%A9ment_de_l_histoire_des_Beni_Zeiya/EYcBAAAAMAAJ?hl=fr&gbpv=1&dq=asile+tlemcen+boabdil&pg=PA403&printsec=frontcover https://cths.fr/an/savant.php?id=109835 https://www.google.fr/books/edition/Jews_Christians_and_Muslims_in_the_Medit/hZfrAgAAQBAJ?hl=fr&gbpv=1&dq=%22boabdil%22+%22tlemcen%22&pg=PA56&printsec=frontcover https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k320790b/f427.image.r=boabdil%20tlemcen%20%C3%A9pitaphe?rk=150215;2 The Moor's Last Stand How Seven Centuries of Muslim Rule in Spain Came to an End By Elizabeth Drayson
so it would be better to specify that he died in North Africa rather than in a specific place to avoid problems and debates 2A01:E0A:13C:64E0:F91E:8E1B:44B7:970A ( talk) 16:36, 11 July 2024 (UTC)