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![]() | On 8 November 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Movement Toward Socialism. The result of the discussion was Moved to Movimiento al Socialismo. |
Is the (Bolivia) really needed in this article? Is there anything else called "Movement Toward Socialism?" -- Descendall 10:28, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Yes there's a [1] Venezuelan Movement toward Socialism and an [2] Argentinian Movement toward Socialism. -- Revolución ( talk) 18:40, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Moved WhiteNight T | @ | C 05:22, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
This should be changed to "Movement towards Socialism" if it's a direct translation from the Spanish "Movimiento al Socialismo". The Spanish "al" here has a directional meaning, a movement in some direction (here, ideological). Otherwise, it'd be "Movimiento para el Socialismo". Also, the party does not describe itself strictly as a "socialist" party, but as a movement headed in that direction. There is a difference.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcentellas ( talk • contribs) 15:06, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
I changed the entry, which listed the 2002 election as two types: legislative & presidential. While this is technically true, the entry (as it appeared) didn't make clear how the Bolivian electoral system works. Since the 1997 election, Bolivia uses a mixed-member electoral system. This means that voters cast a presidential ballot, as well as a ballot for their local congressional representative. But this second (legislative) vote only elects about half the lower house (it varied from 1997 to 2005); the remainder of the lower house and the entirety of the senate are elected from proportional representation formulas based on the presidential votes cast.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcentellas ( talk • contribs) 15:10, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
The english translation of the name clearly needs to be changed to "Movement towards Socialism". Whatever the "proper" grammatical translation should be, the most widely used english translation in academic journals and news media is "Movement towards Socialism". I think Wikipedia is the only major source that translates the name to "Movement for Socialism". Unless someone can cite numerous valid sources to the contrary, I will make the change in the coming week.-- David Barba ( talk) 19:19, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
...try familiarize yourself with Google, -- Soman ( talk) 19:57, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
These are more recent BBC articles: [3] [4] And from the Economist: [5] Pexise ( talk) 00:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Soman, our argument about the hyphenated name is specifically to demonstrate that the "movement" of MAS is not directly "for" socialism. As advocated by MAS, the movement does not belong (the other connotation of 'for') to socialism as a political philosophy, but specifically belongs and is subject to the "sovereignty of the peoples"- "por". It is therefore a more contextualized translation to use "towards", denoting a movement in the direction of but not to/for socialism. In this way MAS is categorically different from previous (and existing) 'socialist' political movements in Bolivia, such as PS1 or the communist party.-- David Barba ( talk) 20:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Soman, have you withdrawn your objection to the name change? should we put it to a vote? more discussion?-- David Barba ( talk) 23:31, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Soman, you've just reverted "Movement towards Socialism" elsewhere to "Movement for Socialism." I've avoided the pedantic debate here on this page so far, but everything one else seems to have a better point than your hypothetical "they must have gone for the pronounce-able acronym" theory. And really, there is a preponderance of MtS translations into English. Could you put up either RSs that are insistent on your priority and/or RS validation of the MAS framers' intentions (and answer David Barba's questions) or back off?-- Carwil ( talk) 00:53, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
In a start of an attempt to a major rewrite of the article, I removed two passages, [8]. One would fit better in an article on US-Bolivian relations. The other passage could be reworked into the article, if we find a way to integrate into either the history or ideology section. -- Soman ( talk) 03:15, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I've removed the Office Website link from the article as it does now goes to a holding pages (presumably the registration has lapsed). I've saved the link here in case it is registered and comes back.
Does anyone have a link to the current offical MAS (Bolivia) website? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.125.202 ( talk) 11:20, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Why some people are erasing my reports in the ideology part? they are saying that I don`t write references, please who cares about the references!? I write it because it´s important information and not for vandalism, moreover, the same integrants´ party say that the party has as ideology Socialism of the 21st century, Communitarianism, Indigenism and Bolivarianism. So stop erasing important information, it´s annoying!!-- Alcastilloru 23:35, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Number 5 7 19:42, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Movement for Socialism – Political Instrument for the Sovereignty of the Peoples → Movement for Socialism (Bolivia) – Rather than the full, official (but translated) name, I think we should simply use the common name for this party, which seems to be "Movement for Socialism". There are multiple parties that use this name, so it can be disambiguated with the country. I note that this was the name that was used until it was moved in 2010 without a discussion about using the full name. --Relisted. George Ho ( talk) 20:27, 28 September 2014 (UTC) Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:30, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: MOVED. Obvious primary topic by educational significance; no opposing editor gave any sort of reason why not to follow our primary topic criteria. You can't just blindly assert "no primary topic", lol. ( non-admin closure) Red Slash 17:23, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
– The Bolivian Movement for Socialism has been the country's dominant ruling political party for nearly two decades, whereas the other four parties are either incredibly minor or defunct. Therefore, it's reasonable to state that the Bolivian MAS is the primary topic. The current name space can include the (disambiguation) modifier. A previous discussion did settle on the current page titles; however that occurred at the latter end of 2005, when it had only just come to power. Krisgabwoosh ( talk) 06:56, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Pageviews In ictu oculi ( talk) 12:34, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Movimiento al Socialismo. Consensus developed as such. ( closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky ( talk) 20:39, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
– 'Movement Toward Socialism' is by far the more accurate translation of the Spanish 'Movimiento al Socialism'. Even Movement to Socialism would be more correct, but no serious translator would use 'for'. Movement Toward Socialism already redirects here, with the Bolivian party being the dominant primary topic (See: GBooks, Britannica, etc.). The other minor Latin American parties should also be moved to the more accurate name, with the added '(country)' modifier. The British party should keep its name, 'Movement for Socialism' should redirect to the Bolivian party, and ' Movement for Socialism (disambiguation)' should redirect to ' Movement Toward Socialism (disambiguation)'. Should this pass, I'll handle changing the names on all of the respective articles. Krisgabwoosh ( talk) 17:40, 8 November 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 14:52, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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![]() | On 8 November 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Movement Toward Socialism. The result of the discussion was Moved to Movimiento al Socialismo. |
Is the (Bolivia) really needed in this article? Is there anything else called "Movement Toward Socialism?" -- Descendall 10:28, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Yes there's a [1] Venezuelan Movement toward Socialism and an [2] Argentinian Movement toward Socialism. -- Revolución ( talk) 18:40, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Moved WhiteNight T | @ | C 05:22, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
This should be changed to "Movement towards Socialism" if it's a direct translation from the Spanish "Movimiento al Socialismo". The Spanish "al" here has a directional meaning, a movement in some direction (here, ideological). Otherwise, it'd be "Movimiento para el Socialismo". Also, the party does not describe itself strictly as a "socialist" party, but as a movement headed in that direction. There is a difference.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcentellas ( talk • contribs) 15:06, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
I changed the entry, which listed the 2002 election as two types: legislative & presidential. While this is technically true, the entry (as it appeared) didn't make clear how the Bolivian electoral system works. Since the 1997 election, Bolivia uses a mixed-member electoral system. This means that voters cast a presidential ballot, as well as a ballot for their local congressional representative. But this second (legislative) vote only elects about half the lower house (it varied from 1997 to 2005); the remainder of the lower house and the entirety of the senate are elected from proportional representation formulas based on the presidential votes cast.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcentellas ( talk • contribs) 15:10, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
The english translation of the name clearly needs to be changed to "Movement towards Socialism". Whatever the "proper" grammatical translation should be, the most widely used english translation in academic journals and news media is "Movement towards Socialism". I think Wikipedia is the only major source that translates the name to "Movement for Socialism". Unless someone can cite numerous valid sources to the contrary, I will make the change in the coming week.-- David Barba ( talk) 19:19, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
...try familiarize yourself with Google, -- Soman ( talk) 19:57, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
These are more recent BBC articles: [3] [4] And from the Economist: [5] Pexise ( talk) 00:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Soman, our argument about the hyphenated name is specifically to demonstrate that the "movement" of MAS is not directly "for" socialism. As advocated by MAS, the movement does not belong (the other connotation of 'for') to socialism as a political philosophy, but specifically belongs and is subject to the "sovereignty of the peoples"- "por". It is therefore a more contextualized translation to use "towards", denoting a movement in the direction of but not to/for socialism. In this way MAS is categorically different from previous (and existing) 'socialist' political movements in Bolivia, such as PS1 or the communist party.-- David Barba ( talk) 20:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Soman, have you withdrawn your objection to the name change? should we put it to a vote? more discussion?-- David Barba ( talk) 23:31, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Soman, you've just reverted "Movement towards Socialism" elsewhere to "Movement for Socialism." I've avoided the pedantic debate here on this page so far, but everything one else seems to have a better point than your hypothetical "they must have gone for the pronounce-able acronym" theory. And really, there is a preponderance of MtS translations into English. Could you put up either RSs that are insistent on your priority and/or RS validation of the MAS framers' intentions (and answer David Barba's questions) or back off?-- Carwil ( talk) 00:53, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
In a start of an attempt to a major rewrite of the article, I removed two passages, [8]. One would fit better in an article on US-Bolivian relations. The other passage could be reworked into the article, if we find a way to integrate into either the history or ideology section. -- Soman ( talk) 03:15, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I've removed the Office Website link from the article as it does now goes to a holding pages (presumably the registration has lapsed). I've saved the link here in case it is registered and comes back.
Does anyone have a link to the current offical MAS (Bolivia) website? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.125.202 ( talk) 11:20, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Why some people are erasing my reports in the ideology part? they are saying that I don`t write references, please who cares about the references!? I write it because it´s important information and not for vandalism, moreover, the same integrants´ party say that the party has as ideology Socialism of the 21st century, Communitarianism, Indigenism and Bolivarianism. So stop erasing important information, it´s annoying!!-- Alcastilloru 23:35, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Number 5 7 19:42, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
Movement for Socialism – Political Instrument for the Sovereignty of the Peoples → Movement for Socialism (Bolivia) – Rather than the full, official (but translated) name, I think we should simply use the common name for this party, which seems to be "Movement for Socialism". There are multiple parties that use this name, so it can be disambiguated with the country. I note that this was the name that was used until it was moved in 2010 without a discussion about using the full name. --Relisted. George Ho ( talk) 20:27, 28 September 2014 (UTC) Good Ol’factory (talk) 02:30, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: MOVED. Obvious primary topic by educational significance; no opposing editor gave any sort of reason why not to follow our primary topic criteria. You can't just blindly assert "no primary topic", lol. ( non-admin closure) Red Slash 17:23, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
– The Bolivian Movement for Socialism has been the country's dominant ruling political party for nearly two decades, whereas the other four parties are either incredibly minor or defunct. Therefore, it's reasonable to state that the Bolivian MAS is the primary topic. The current name space can include the (disambiguation) modifier. A previous discussion did settle on the current page titles; however that occurred at the latter end of 2005, when it had only just come to power. Krisgabwoosh ( talk) 06:56, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Pageviews In ictu oculi ( talk) 12:34, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Movimiento al Socialismo. Consensus developed as such. ( closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky ( talk) 20:39, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
– 'Movement Toward Socialism' is by far the more accurate translation of the Spanish 'Movimiento al Socialism'. Even Movement to Socialism would be more correct, but no serious translator would use 'for'. Movement Toward Socialism already redirects here, with the Bolivian party being the dominant primary topic (See: GBooks, Britannica, etc.). The other minor Latin American parties should also be moved to the more accurate name, with the added '(country)' modifier. The British party should keep its name, 'Movement for Socialism' should redirect to the Bolivian party, and ' Movement for Socialism (disambiguation)' should redirect to ' Movement Toward Socialism (disambiguation)'. Should this pass, I'll handle changing the names on all of the respective articles. Krisgabwoosh ( talk) 17:40, 8 November 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. —usernamekiran (talk) 14:52, 5 December 2022 (UTC)