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- Bouncingmolar 10:42, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
For some of the same reasons listed in the topic below, the information on this page is disputed as being factually incorrect. Specifcally, some of the information presented on this page directly contradicts information in the aphthous ulcer wiki page, and some of the citations do not contain evidence to prove claims made in this article (see citation 2 on the mouth ulcer page). Since a "mouth ulcer" is in fact an apthous ulcer, and the wiki page for apthous ulcer is much more concise and accurate, I recommend that the mouth ulcer page simply redirect to apthous ulcer.
I disagree. Mouth ulcer is an incomplete article. Apthous ulcer is a (fairly) complete article. Not all mouth ulcers are apthous (despite the etymology of the word) and therefore we either split all the different types into separate articles or merge all under one heading of mouth ulcer. That would be one long piece. For instance, the ulcer resultant from the degeneration of bullae in vesiculobullous diseases is different from RA ulcers clinically and histologically, but both are ulcers because they breach the integrity of the mucosa. Dr-G - Illigetimi nil carborundum est. 17:32, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
( Bouncingmolar 16:04, 18 July 2006 (UTC))
i've had little 'ulcers' or whatever in the past and they always look like the one i just got. a friend says to blame stress. here's a pic, i'll release it GFDL or whatever if you're interested (i do have a much larger version but this is just cropped, so you're not losing any detail of the actual sore): http://ibulk.net/ulcer.jpg -- TIB ( talk) 00:40, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I've always known of these as mouth blisters, as well as the rest of my family. I wonder where that name started. SadanYagci 21:31, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I can see how some ulcers get mistaken. If a gland get blocked it'll swell up like a blister and often, if these swellings are popped, they'll turn into ulcers. Abigsmurf 00:31, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
From Prevention:
Quantities around 1ml are more than sufficient.
1ml seems a ridiculously small amount of mouthwash to use, I find it hard to believe it would have any effect. A quick google shows people using 20ml -> 100ml. Where did the 1ml figure come from? Could someone remove this if there's nothing to back it up? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.41.148 ( talk) 18:27, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
The section indicates that a small vessel should be used to contain the solution and, presumably, contain it against the site of injury. If this is the case, and the solution were prevented from mixing with saliva, concentrations would exceed what could normally be achieved with a much larger dose. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.161.116.251 ( talk) 22:25, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
Edited the bit about gels in the treatment section:
"Some people benefit from using the over-the-counter topical gel Bonjela, which contains choline salicylate -- choline salicylate is a local analgesic that helps to reduce the pain and inflammation associated with oral ulcers."
read too much like an advert to me, so I edited it to include the possibilities of other gels that might not contain the same substances. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.29.235.234 ( talk) 14:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
'Also, putting baking soda directly on the sore and taking l-lysine herb has been shown to help with healing and pain.' This is unsourced. I tried it, and it BUrnnnneeeddd!!!! Badly. Someone playing a TRICK I feel. >.> <.< 58.104.146.164 ( talk) 04:22, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
I was told by my doctor to press a soluable asprin against the ulcer as aspirin is an anti-infmatory drug. This seems to help stop the pain of the ulcer and it works for me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.147.234.246 ( talk) 18:37, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
I've found that consumption of a common food preservative (Sodium Benzoate aka E211) and it's close allies (e.g. Benzoic Acid aka E210) will cause me to develop mouth ulcers around two days after exposure; continued exposure leads to an increase in both numbers and severity of ulcers. This also goes for my father and brother, but not my mother; so I suspect there may be a genetic component to this effect too. If you're suffering, try an elimination diet; pay particular attention to mouthwashes and soft drinks. Quickos ( talk) 15:44, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
== INTOLLORANCE
TRUST ME; try Weleda 'Medicinal gargle. 9 drops in very small amount of water 5mm in botton of narrow glass and neat as a imediate pain relief (does sting) but well worth the short moment of pain. Gargle straight after tomatoes and can help stop one starting. AVOID TOMATOES, in fact since i have completely avioded them even sauces in curries etc. Yes some tooth pastes seem to be bad, but they do not cause them. If I have even a small bit of Tomato say in a burger king wopper= mouth ulcer by the end of the day. THE DIFFERANCE with using Weleda Gargle is it will 8 times out of ten eighter not develope at all or stay small and be gone in 3 days. AND most importantly
stop the cycle of as soon as one heals another appears. All you sufferers please please do your self a favour. try this stuff it works on tounge ulcers for me also. they are definately stress related/tired . ==
I suffered for years and years with several ulcers at once some growing to the size of your little fingernail. All because I used Bonjela which is THE WORST POSSIBLE TREATMENT.They came back with vengence. OMG Iwish I knew of Weleda back then. health shops sell it. A Homeopath recommeded it. Caledula did nothing but make them angry just like any other trament i tried. Best of luck. please edit this thread if you try it to let us know how you got on.
There is no mention whatsoever of cases when an ulcer would appear on the tongue.
LaughingSkull (
talk)
02:20, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was no consensus for move. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 06:50, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
Seems like there's a lot of overlap with aphthous ulcer and it's confusing having them as two articles. If they are to remain as two articles, they need to be synchronised as there is information in one that is not in the other. Jessed ( talk) 11:47, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
In the "TREATMENT" Section, some genius has suggested that rubbing Salt or Garlic can help cure mouth ulcers. And obviously thre are no citations to This is obviously a Joke, because rubbing salt or garlic is obviously going to exacerbate the lesion as one will heavy dehydrate the sorrounding and the other is a very pungent substance. I suggest this be removed with immeidate effect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashish.jagyasi ( talk • contribs) 10:46, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
The cause "Smoking cessation" is listed under trauma, should it not be listed under Immune system? Mootros ( talk) 07:30, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
For the above reason I reworked this article to be a discussion of oral ulceration generally, which is a much wider topic than RAS. Also, i had to remove the following references and associated text because either they were primary or not of an acceptable quality for a medical page:
Also, some stuff is just plain wrong, herpes simplex does not cause recurrent herpetiforme ulceration.
lesion ( talk) 07:35, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Is an ulcer left by rupture of a herpetic vesicle on the lips really considered as oral ulceration? None of the textbooks include this in the topic. lesion ( talk) 22:43, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
I have no particular reason to doubt the statements about oral electrical burns, but another editor does. The following is a quotation from the Toon reference: As mentioned, oral burns are common following the frequent incidence of children inserting a live electrical cord into the mouth. Contracture of the oral commissures may result, severely limiting the motion of the patient's mouth. These oral burns can extend entirely through the lip and oral mucosa and if the necrotic zone extends into the labial artery, commonly 10-14 days after the burn, result in severe bleeding. Parents should be warned of this risk and instructed on methods of occluding the vessel.
[1] Please don't revert again unless you have a reason better than "no" (the most pathetic edit summary I've seen in a while). --
Scray (
talk)
05:31, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
This is one way this could have been done:
Occurred to me that it would be good to have a section on how mouth ulcers heal, on the cellular level. Or maybe this would be better on the oral mucosa page. Lesion ( talk) 15:49, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
A recent edit removed the image. I think that the differentiation between a malignant ulcer and benign causes of oral ulceration is one of the most important aspects of this topic. The best way to describe something is with a picture rather than words alone. Oral cancer usually presents late, because people have ignored a "mouth ulcer" for many weeks hoping it will go away. This gives oral cancer a poor prognosis because of the lack of awareness, and by the time the person goes to see a health care professional, the tumor is large and may have spread to the lymph nodes in the neck. I did have a look through all the pictures of malignant ulcer we had available a while ago, because someone requested more pictures on the oral cancer page. Arguably, the following image is more typical of a malignant ulcer, both in terms of appearance and site, however the image we have currently for this page excellently shows the classically described rolled margin, and it is almost on the side of the tongue so it is not in an atypical site... Lesion ( talk) 10:49, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
I question the recent addition of the material about cloves as a treatment. The edit summary (from an anonymous editor) talks about personal experience, yet the added material seems to say it is from one of the references. I'm betting that it was just stuck in the middle of some properly referenced material, and that it really belongs after the reference, and is maybe original research. Lou Sander ( talk) 02:07, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
I was searching for causes for mouth ulcers and found this article much more better than [NIH http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Mouth-ulcer/Pages/Introduction.aspx] article. Thanks a lot for creating such an exhaustive article. I would like to thank to all the contributors of this article. -- Abhijeet Safai ( talk) 06:53, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
I see BedrockPerson and 58.7.108.178/ Matthew Ferguson 57 have been engaging in an edit war over adding BedrockPerson's photo of his own mouth. I can't see that the image is needed since it's highly similar to the image above it, and there is no shortage of images in the article. AntiVan ( talk) 02:32, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
This image is problematic. It does not correspond to descriptions of the pathophysiology of mouth ulcers that I have seen. Please provide reliable references. Matthew Ferguson ( talk) 21:22, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
Neither of these sources contain any diagram, and they do not seem to support several aspects of the diagram. I believe this diagram is too inaccurate and has been drawn together partly with original research. Having said this, the aphthous stomatitis article might benefit from a histopathology type diagram, but one more closely based on a diagram provided by a reliable source such as a pathology textbook. Given there are so many different types of mouth ulcer with different etiologies, I feel a generic diagram beyond what is already available in the definition section ( [3]) is not helpful.
Specific issues with diagram:
I have informed WT:MED for more opinions on this issue, kindly do not re-add this contentious diagram until there is a clear consensus to do so. Many thanks, Matthew Ferguson ( talk) 09:36, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
the abbreviation RAS is used here without being introduced. could someone who knows what it is kindly add the definition and link? 108.14.251.104 ( talk) 13:41, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
" Cancer sore" redirects to this article now; does this term actually refer to mouth ulcers instead of sores that are caused by cancer? Jarble ( talk) 22:37, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Mouth ulcer article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL |
![]() | Mouth ulcer received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
![]() | Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Ideal sources for Wikipedia's health content are defined in the guideline
Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (medicine) and are typically
review articles. Here are links to possibly useful sources of information about Mouth ulcer.
|
- Bouncingmolar 10:42, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
For some of the same reasons listed in the topic below, the information on this page is disputed as being factually incorrect. Specifcally, some of the information presented on this page directly contradicts information in the aphthous ulcer wiki page, and some of the citations do not contain evidence to prove claims made in this article (see citation 2 on the mouth ulcer page). Since a "mouth ulcer" is in fact an apthous ulcer, and the wiki page for apthous ulcer is much more concise and accurate, I recommend that the mouth ulcer page simply redirect to apthous ulcer.
I disagree. Mouth ulcer is an incomplete article. Apthous ulcer is a (fairly) complete article. Not all mouth ulcers are apthous (despite the etymology of the word) and therefore we either split all the different types into separate articles or merge all under one heading of mouth ulcer. That would be one long piece. For instance, the ulcer resultant from the degeneration of bullae in vesiculobullous diseases is different from RA ulcers clinically and histologically, but both are ulcers because they breach the integrity of the mucosa. Dr-G - Illigetimi nil carborundum est. 17:32, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
( Bouncingmolar 16:04, 18 July 2006 (UTC))
i've had little 'ulcers' or whatever in the past and they always look like the one i just got. a friend says to blame stress. here's a pic, i'll release it GFDL or whatever if you're interested (i do have a much larger version but this is just cropped, so you're not losing any detail of the actual sore): http://ibulk.net/ulcer.jpg -- TIB ( talk) 00:40, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I've always known of these as mouth blisters, as well as the rest of my family. I wonder where that name started. SadanYagci 21:31, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I can see how some ulcers get mistaken. If a gland get blocked it'll swell up like a blister and often, if these swellings are popped, they'll turn into ulcers. Abigsmurf 00:31, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
From Prevention:
Quantities around 1ml are more than sufficient.
1ml seems a ridiculously small amount of mouthwash to use, I find it hard to believe it would have any effect. A quick google shows people using 20ml -> 100ml. Where did the 1ml figure come from? Could someone remove this if there's nothing to back it up? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.41.148 ( talk) 18:27, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
The section indicates that a small vessel should be used to contain the solution and, presumably, contain it against the site of injury. If this is the case, and the solution were prevented from mixing with saliva, concentrations would exceed what could normally be achieved with a much larger dose. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.161.116.251 ( talk) 22:25, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
Edited the bit about gels in the treatment section:
"Some people benefit from using the over-the-counter topical gel Bonjela, which contains choline salicylate -- choline salicylate is a local analgesic that helps to reduce the pain and inflammation associated with oral ulcers."
read too much like an advert to me, so I edited it to include the possibilities of other gels that might not contain the same substances. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.29.235.234 ( talk) 14:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
'Also, putting baking soda directly on the sore and taking l-lysine herb has been shown to help with healing and pain.' This is unsourced. I tried it, and it BUrnnnneeeddd!!!! Badly. Someone playing a TRICK I feel. >.> <.< 58.104.146.164 ( talk) 04:22, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
I was told by my doctor to press a soluable asprin against the ulcer as aspirin is an anti-infmatory drug. This seems to help stop the pain of the ulcer and it works for me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.147.234.246 ( talk) 18:37, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
I've found that consumption of a common food preservative (Sodium Benzoate aka E211) and it's close allies (e.g. Benzoic Acid aka E210) will cause me to develop mouth ulcers around two days after exposure; continued exposure leads to an increase in both numbers and severity of ulcers. This also goes for my father and brother, but not my mother; so I suspect there may be a genetic component to this effect too. If you're suffering, try an elimination diet; pay particular attention to mouthwashes and soft drinks. Quickos ( talk) 15:44, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
== INTOLLORANCE
TRUST ME; try Weleda 'Medicinal gargle. 9 drops in very small amount of water 5mm in botton of narrow glass and neat as a imediate pain relief (does sting) but well worth the short moment of pain. Gargle straight after tomatoes and can help stop one starting. AVOID TOMATOES, in fact since i have completely avioded them even sauces in curries etc. Yes some tooth pastes seem to be bad, but they do not cause them. If I have even a small bit of Tomato say in a burger king wopper= mouth ulcer by the end of the day. THE DIFFERANCE with using Weleda Gargle is it will 8 times out of ten eighter not develope at all or stay small and be gone in 3 days. AND most importantly
stop the cycle of as soon as one heals another appears. All you sufferers please please do your self a favour. try this stuff it works on tounge ulcers for me also. they are definately stress related/tired . ==
I suffered for years and years with several ulcers at once some growing to the size of your little fingernail. All because I used Bonjela which is THE WORST POSSIBLE TREATMENT.They came back with vengence. OMG Iwish I knew of Weleda back then. health shops sell it. A Homeopath recommeded it. Caledula did nothing but make them angry just like any other trament i tried. Best of luck. please edit this thread if you try it to let us know how you got on.
There is no mention whatsoever of cases when an ulcer would appear on the tongue.
LaughingSkull (
talk)
02:20, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was no consensus for move. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 06:50, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
Seems like there's a lot of overlap with aphthous ulcer and it's confusing having them as two articles. If they are to remain as two articles, they need to be synchronised as there is information in one that is not in the other. Jessed ( talk) 11:47, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
In the "TREATMENT" Section, some genius has suggested that rubbing Salt or Garlic can help cure mouth ulcers. And obviously thre are no citations to This is obviously a Joke, because rubbing salt or garlic is obviously going to exacerbate the lesion as one will heavy dehydrate the sorrounding and the other is a very pungent substance. I suggest this be removed with immeidate effect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ashish.jagyasi ( talk • contribs) 10:46, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
The cause "Smoking cessation" is listed under trauma, should it not be listed under Immune system? Mootros ( talk) 07:30, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
For the above reason I reworked this article to be a discussion of oral ulceration generally, which is a much wider topic than RAS. Also, i had to remove the following references and associated text because either they were primary or not of an acceptable quality for a medical page:
Also, some stuff is just plain wrong, herpes simplex does not cause recurrent herpetiforme ulceration.
lesion ( talk) 07:35, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Is an ulcer left by rupture of a herpetic vesicle on the lips really considered as oral ulceration? None of the textbooks include this in the topic. lesion ( talk) 22:43, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
I have no particular reason to doubt the statements about oral electrical burns, but another editor does. The following is a quotation from the Toon reference: As mentioned, oral burns are common following the frequent incidence of children inserting a live electrical cord into the mouth. Contracture of the oral commissures may result, severely limiting the motion of the patient's mouth. These oral burns can extend entirely through the lip and oral mucosa and if the necrotic zone extends into the labial artery, commonly 10-14 days after the burn, result in severe bleeding. Parents should be warned of this risk and instructed on methods of occluding the vessel.
[1] Please don't revert again unless you have a reason better than "no" (the most pathetic edit summary I've seen in a while). --
Scray (
talk)
05:31, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
This is one way this could have been done:
Occurred to me that it would be good to have a section on how mouth ulcers heal, on the cellular level. Or maybe this would be better on the oral mucosa page. Lesion ( talk) 15:49, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
A recent edit removed the image. I think that the differentiation between a malignant ulcer and benign causes of oral ulceration is one of the most important aspects of this topic. The best way to describe something is with a picture rather than words alone. Oral cancer usually presents late, because people have ignored a "mouth ulcer" for many weeks hoping it will go away. This gives oral cancer a poor prognosis because of the lack of awareness, and by the time the person goes to see a health care professional, the tumor is large and may have spread to the lymph nodes in the neck. I did have a look through all the pictures of malignant ulcer we had available a while ago, because someone requested more pictures on the oral cancer page. Arguably, the following image is more typical of a malignant ulcer, both in terms of appearance and site, however the image we have currently for this page excellently shows the classically described rolled margin, and it is almost on the side of the tongue so it is not in an atypical site... Lesion ( talk) 10:49, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
I question the recent addition of the material about cloves as a treatment. The edit summary (from an anonymous editor) talks about personal experience, yet the added material seems to say it is from one of the references. I'm betting that it was just stuck in the middle of some properly referenced material, and that it really belongs after the reference, and is maybe original research. Lou Sander ( talk) 02:07, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
I was searching for causes for mouth ulcers and found this article much more better than [NIH http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Mouth-ulcer/Pages/Introduction.aspx] article. Thanks a lot for creating such an exhaustive article. I would like to thank to all the contributors of this article. -- Abhijeet Safai ( talk) 06:53, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
I see BedrockPerson and 58.7.108.178/ Matthew Ferguson 57 have been engaging in an edit war over adding BedrockPerson's photo of his own mouth. I can't see that the image is needed since it's highly similar to the image above it, and there is no shortage of images in the article. AntiVan ( talk) 02:32, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
This image is problematic. It does not correspond to descriptions of the pathophysiology of mouth ulcers that I have seen. Please provide reliable references. Matthew Ferguson ( talk) 21:22, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
Neither of these sources contain any diagram, and they do not seem to support several aspects of the diagram. I believe this diagram is too inaccurate and has been drawn together partly with original research. Having said this, the aphthous stomatitis article might benefit from a histopathology type diagram, but one more closely based on a diagram provided by a reliable source such as a pathology textbook. Given there are so many different types of mouth ulcer with different etiologies, I feel a generic diagram beyond what is already available in the definition section ( [3]) is not helpful.
Specific issues with diagram:
I have informed WT:MED for more opinions on this issue, kindly do not re-add this contentious diagram until there is a clear consensus to do so. Many thanks, Matthew Ferguson ( talk) 09:36, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
the abbreviation RAS is used here without being introduced. could someone who knows what it is kindly add the definition and link? 108.14.251.104 ( talk) 13:41, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
" Cancer sore" redirects to this article now; does this term actually refer to mouth ulcers instead of sores that are caused by cancer? Jarble ( talk) 22:37, 28 March 2023 (UTC)