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At least not a joyous occasion. I don't know why everyone thinks that. Muharram is the first month of the Islamic calendar. The tenth day of Muharram is called Ashurah (a day of mourning). For heaven's sake the Shi'ites do not celebrate the new year. They start their mourning ritual at this time. There are no festivities for the Shi'ites. You see many of the Shi'ites are Syed and claim direct descendence from one of the Imams. The death of the Imam is co-memorated like the death of an important family member. You would not celebrate the first of January as New Year's eve if your mom or dad died on that day, would you? So we do not celebrate the arrival of the New Year because our ancestors were brutally massacred on that day. This information is from the descendant of the son of Imam Husain..an Abidi Syed..ME so you can be sure this is accurate. If you don't believe me do your own research. Netpari 04:58, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
There's much overlap with the Aashurah article here. — Charles P. (Mirv) 18:01, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
To Joturner and to anyone wishing to keep the current name "Festival of Muharram", the naming convention guideline is to be used as a guideline only. Even if we do use it, it is clear that if the name is misleading, it may be changed. In this case, I cannot imagine a more misleading name. In any dictionary or thesaurus, you will see festival meaning a joyous occasion. Do we intend this encyclopedia to be rational or not? I will change the name, and I hope that people are not too stubborn or irrational to change it back. The occasions in Muharram are clearly NOT festivals. Adamcaliph 02:00, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
The use of the word Festival to identify the Shi'a observance of Muharram is very inacurate. The name needs to be changed if the article is to be kept. Dnkrumah 11:31, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
There are several articles about this issue including Mätam, Azadari of Muharram and Majlis-e-Aza. Unfortunately all of them are weak. Therefor I propose merging all of them in this article to make a good one. I chose this one due to the fact that I guess its name is more familiar for native speakers of English. Please add you idea below.-- Sa.vakilian( t- c) 02:44, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I have substantially revised and shortened the section "Azadari in Lucknow." It's unclear to me whether Azadari == Mourning of Muharram, as the previous text said that the first Azadari procession after the ban was lifted was held during Ramadan in 1998. Anyway the previous text was much too detailed for an encyclopedia article, with too many obscure and undefined terms. The account of events was skewed toward the Shia protesters' perspective, with the government entirely in the wrong and the Shia community entirely in the right. — ℜob C. alias ÀLAROB 23:26, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
Who is the Muhammad that is being quoted in the hadith section? If it is supposed to be the prophet pbuh, then there should be a pbuh or (s) next to his name. And are these quotes supposed to be things that the prophet pbuh said? How is it possible for him to speak of Husayn's death when it happened in the battle of karbala which was in 680 (and the prophet pbuh died in 632)?
70.243.141.193 (
talk) 04:25, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e30.html
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/055.sbt.html#004.055.609 http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/058.sbt.html#005.058.278
Is this vandalism, or just badly mangled English?
Around 1990s, after the post-first American-Iraq War, Iraq's Mehdi militia return to Iran for search Imam Mahdi.
Either way, would someone please fix it?
Terry Yager ( talk) 05:38, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
This article only reflects the traditional belief and local legends, and fully neglects certain scholastic and modern approaches. For example, there are striking similarities between the Shia traditions and ancient, pre-Islamic cults of the region, for example the Zoroastrian Siyâvash cult. Pre-Islamic Persians and other Zoroastrians in Mesopotamia used to mourn for the Avestan hero Siyâvash. The Iranian scholar Amir-Moezzi writes in the Encyclopaedia Iranica (article " Shahrbanu": [1]):
This should be added to the article. Tājik ( talk) 14:13, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Al-Mukhtar ibn Abi Ubayd al Thaqafi--
94.193.42.11 (
talk) 08:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC) can we please have a section on him
In "Twelver Alevis", "Twelver" is wikified to the Twelver article, which is about "the largest branch of Shī‘ī (Shi'a) Islam". But Alevi#The_Twelve_Imams says: "The Twelve Imams is another common Alevi belief [...] There is not much real affiliation with the actual Twelve Imams of Shi'i Islam". So perhaps "twelver alevis" should rather send to Alevi#The_Twelve_Imams ? Apokrif ( talk) 17:27, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
Beleive in freedom. Beleive in let others beleive they want to & let others do they want to, without interfering with you physically. This is what Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) told & Quran says - you be yourself & we be ourselves & all will be decided on the Promised Day. So thats it. Why interfere here or there? And, where anyone AMONGTS us present during that time of Karbala War!!?? A big NO. So just see which sect supports yazid & which sect supports Imam Hussain (A.S.). Fine, no one was present then, but one can mourn for Imam Hussain now! So let them do it, let them cry, let them beat themselves. Why is another body worried by a Shia flaggelating himself. Christains take out march showing how Jesus was crucified, Hindus do many other things, many other religions do many things, will all these be stopped too!!?? No one can. So live your life unto yourself without forcing your thoughts onto others! Understand - you better do it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Syed Aijaz Ali Rizvi ( talk • contribs) 09:59, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
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Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and according to fair use may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Diannaa ( talk) 17:23, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
@ Sonia Sevilla: What's your motivation for changing the picture in infobox? Your picture is very vague and does not show the reality! This picture is not showing what's really going on and as you see there's a green flag covering some parts of the picture. This is while the previous picture is demonstrating the reality of Mourning in Muharram. The picture is wide and very clear! Mhhossein ( talk) 11:56, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
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I searched a lot between sources but i can't find any reliable sources about mourning ritual among the shia Ismaili and Alavi and Baktashi. I move the texts that is about this subject to here until suitable source is found. Lstfllw203 ( talk) 15:09, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
Bektashis and Alevis also mourn, and they keep themselves from eating and drinking ("fasting") the first 10–12 days of Muharram. In this period, the Alevis wear black clothes, do not shave themselves and avoid entertainment and pleasure. Originally, it was forbidden to bathe and change clothes during this period, but today most Alevis do not follow this rule. This is called "Muharrem Matemi", "Yas-i Muharrem" or "Muharrem orucu". But because it is called "fasting", many people falsely think that Alevis celebrate the Muharram. The definition of the "fast" in this connection is different from the normal type of "fasting". Bektashis greet each other by saying "Ya Imam! Ya Husayn."
The only Ismaili group which mourns are the Mustaali, who mourn similarly to most Twelvers. Although, Nizari Ismaili commemorate Muharram through the tradition of not celebrating marriages, birthdays, and other religious celebrations during this time to show respect to their other Muslim brothers who are mourning.
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In the subsection Pilgrimage to the shrine of Husayn, it says "one million pilgrims visit the city annually", citing Yaacov Shimoni's 1974 book. Can we get a newer citation that is up-to-date? The estimate of the pilgrims to Husayn Ibn Ali's shrine varies, but it is definitely not the low number of one million per year. The Karbala article says 8 million pilgrims. However, 'The Walk of the Free' Najaf -to Kerbala webpage reports that pilgrims are estimated to be 5-10 million. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by CryMeAnOcean ( talk • contribs) 01:37, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
References
This is outrageous. Why would someone change this without any explanation or reason? As a sunni, i find this offensive that someone is actually assuming "sunnis celebrate on the day of ashura". this is wrong. I am going to revert this edit. I cannot believe someone would play this dirty trick, trying to paint the picture that somehow the shia community mourns the death of the fallen and sunnis celebrate ? how cruel.
Anyways, this edit was made without giving any justification and i am rolling back the edit. Mhveinvp ( talk) 11:42, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
[1] [2] This is an indian "sunni" imam, Mr. Ahmad Naqshbandi, watch these two sermons. its in Urdu. As a sunni if at least these two videos dont tell you about "Mourn and derive messages from Hussein's Sacrifice", i dont know what to say. Mhveinvp ( talk) 11:47, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
References
![]() | Types of mourning of Muharram was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 29 November 2015 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Mourning of Muharram. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Mourning of Muharram article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | A fact from Mourning of Muharram appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 26 October 2007. The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on February 10, 2005, January 31, 2006, January 20, 2007, January 10, 2008, December 29, 2008, December 18, 2009, and December 7, 2010. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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|
At least not a joyous occasion. I don't know why everyone thinks that. Muharram is the first month of the Islamic calendar. The tenth day of Muharram is called Ashurah (a day of mourning). For heaven's sake the Shi'ites do not celebrate the new year. They start their mourning ritual at this time. There are no festivities for the Shi'ites. You see many of the Shi'ites are Syed and claim direct descendence from one of the Imams. The death of the Imam is co-memorated like the death of an important family member. You would not celebrate the first of January as New Year's eve if your mom or dad died on that day, would you? So we do not celebrate the arrival of the New Year because our ancestors were brutally massacred on that day. This information is from the descendant of the son of Imam Husain..an Abidi Syed..ME so you can be sure this is accurate. If you don't believe me do your own research. Netpari 04:58, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
There's much overlap with the Aashurah article here. — Charles P. (Mirv) 18:01, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
To Joturner and to anyone wishing to keep the current name "Festival of Muharram", the naming convention guideline is to be used as a guideline only. Even if we do use it, it is clear that if the name is misleading, it may be changed. In this case, I cannot imagine a more misleading name. In any dictionary or thesaurus, you will see festival meaning a joyous occasion. Do we intend this encyclopedia to be rational or not? I will change the name, and I hope that people are not too stubborn or irrational to change it back. The occasions in Muharram are clearly NOT festivals. Adamcaliph 02:00, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
The use of the word Festival to identify the Shi'a observance of Muharram is very inacurate. The name needs to be changed if the article is to be kept. Dnkrumah 11:31, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
There are several articles about this issue including Mätam, Azadari of Muharram and Majlis-e-Aza. Unfortunately all of them are weak. Therefor I propose merging all of them in this article to make a good one. I chose this one due to the fact that I guess its name is more familiar for native speakers of English. Please add you idea below.-- Sa.vakilian( t- c) 02:44, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I have substantially revised and shortened the section "Azadari in Lucknow." It's unclear to me whether Azadari == Mourning of Muharram, as the previous text said that the first Azadari procession after the ban was lifted was held during Ramadan in 1998. Anyway the previous text was much too detailed for an encyclopedia article, with too many obscure and undefined terms. The account of events was skewed toward the Shia protesters' perspective, with the government entirely in the wrong and the Shia community entirely in the right. — ℜob C. alias ÀLAROB 23:26, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
Who is the Muhammad that is being quoted in the hadith section? If it is supposed to be the prophet pbuh, then there should be a pbuh or (s) next to his name. And are these quotes supposed to be things that the prophet pbuh said? How is it possible for him to speak of Husayn's death when it happened in the battle of karbala which was in 680 (and the prophet pbuh died in 632)?
70.243.141.193 (
talk) 04:25, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
http://www.livingislam.org/fiqhi/fiqha_e30.html
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/055.sbt.html#004.055.609 http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/058.sbt.html#005.058.278
Is this vandalism, or just badly mangled English?
Around 1990s, after the post-first American-Iraq War, Iraq's Mehdi militia return to Iran for search Imam Mahdi.
Either way, would someone please fix it?
Terry Yager ( talk) 05:38, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
This article only reflects the traditional belief and local legends, and fully neglects certain scholastic and modern approaches. For example, there are striking similarities between the Shia traditions and ancient, pre-Islamic cults of the region, for example the Zoroastrian Siyâvash cult. Pre-Islamic Persians and other Zoroastrians in Mesopotamia used to mourn for the Avestan hero Siyâvash. The Iranian scholar Amir-Moezzi writes in the Encyclopaedia Iranica (article " Shahrbanu": [1]):
This should be added to the article. Tājik ( talk) 14:13, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Al-Mukhtar ibn Abi Ubayd al Thaqafi--
94.193.42.11 (
talk) 08:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC) can we please have a section on him
In "Twelver Alevis", "Twelver" is wikified to the Twelver article, which is about "the largest branch of Shī‘ī (Shi'a) Islam". But Alevi#The_Twelve_Imams says: "The Twelve Imams is another common Alevi belief [...] There is not much real affiliation with the actual Twelve Imams of Shi'i Islam". So perhaps "twelver alevis" should rather send to Alevi#The_Twelve_Imams ? Apokrif ( talk) 17:27, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
Beleive in freedom. Beleive in let others beleive they want to & let others do they want to, without interfering with you physically. This is what Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) told & Quran says - you be yourself & we be ourselves & all will be decided on the Promised Day. So thats it. Why interfere here or there? And, where anyone AMONGTS us present during that time of Karbala War!!?? A big NO. So just see which sect supports yazid & which sect supports Imam Hussain (A.S.). Fine, no one was present then, but one can mourn for Imam Hussain now! So let them do it, let them cry, let them beat themselves. Why is another body worried by a Shia flaggelating himself. Christains take out march showing how Jesus was crucified, Hindus do many other things, many other religions do many things, will all these be stopped too!!?? No one can. So live your life unto yourself without forcing your thoughts onto others! Understand - you better do it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Syed Aijaz Ali Rizvi ( talk • contribs) 09:59, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:Husayn callig.gif, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests October 2011
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 20:43, 24 October 2011 (UTC) |
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and according to fair use may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Diannaa ( talk) 17:23, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
@ Sonia Sevilla: What's your motivation for changing the picture in infobox? Your picture is very vague and does not show the reality! This picture is not showing what's really going on and as you see there's a green flag covering some parts of the picture. This is while the previous picture is demonstrating the reality of Mourning in Muharram. The picture is wide and very clear! Mhhossein ( talk) 11:56, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 03:52, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
I searched a lot between sources but i can't find any reliable sources about mourning ritual among the shia Ismaili and Alavi and Baktashi. I move the texts that is about this subject to here until suitable source is found. Lstfllw203 ( talk) 15:09, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
Bektashis and Alevis also mourn, and they keep themselves from eating and drinking ("fasting") the first 10–12 days of Muharram. In this period, the Alevis wear black clothes, do not shave themselves and avoid entertainment and pleasure. Originally, it was forbidden to bathe and change clothes during this period, but today most Alevis do not follow this rule. This is called "Muharrem Matemi", "Yas-i Muharrem" or "Muharrem orucu". But because it is called "fasting", many people falsely think that Alevis celebrate the Muharram. The definition of the "fast" in this connection is different from the normal type of "fasting". Bektashis greet each other by saying "Ya Imam! Ya Husayn."
The only Ismaili group which mourns are the Mustaali, who mourn similarly to most Twelvers. Although, Nizari Ismaili commemorate Muharram through the tradition of not celebrating marriages, birthdays, and other religious celebrations during this time to show respect to their other Muslim brothers who are mourning.
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Mourning of Muharram. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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In the subsection Pilgrimage to the shrine of Husayn, it says "one million pilgrims visit the city annually", citing Yaacov Shimoni's 1974 book. Can we get a newer citation that is up-to-date? The estimate of the pilgrims to Husayn Ibn Ali's shrine varies, but it is definitely not the low number of one million per year. The Karbala article says 8 million pilgrims. However, 'The Walk of the Free' Najaf -to Kerbala webpage reports that pilgrims are estimated to be 5-10 million. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by CryMeAnOcean ( talk • contribs) 01:37, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
References
This is outrageous. Why would someone change this without any explanation or reason? As a sunni, i find this offensive that someone is actually assuming "sunnis celebrate on the day of ashura". this is wrong. I am going to revert this edit. I cannot believe someone would play this dirty trick, trying to paint the picture that somehow the shia community mourns the death of the fallen and sunnis celebrate ? how cruel.
Anyways, this edit was made without giving any justification and i am rolling back the edit. Mhveinvp ( talk) 11:42, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
[1] [2] This is an indian "sunni" imam, Mr. Ahmad Naqshbandi, watch these two sermons. its in Urdu. As a sunni if at least these two videos dont tell you about "Mourn and derive messages from Hussein's Sacrifice", i dont know what to say. Mhveinvp ( talk) 11:47, 3 April 2019 (UTC)
References