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![]() | This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
Anyone have an approximate timeframe for the events described in the Next Phase? section (and that ? needs to be removed, so I may edit that to something else)? Given the thickness of the walls of the crater and the slowness (in human terms) of geological processes, I'd assume this is several million years in the future, as are any potential future eruptions. I just want to clarify for the geologically-challenged that their hotel reservations for next summer aren't in danger.
I was surprised to learn there is still volcanic activity. I would have assumed that the massiveness of the explosion had completely emptied Mazama's magma chamber, and that by now any magma plumes or subduction zones or whatever had moved sufficiently to make Mazama an extinct volcano, but I'm not a vulcanologist--I just took a geology class in college. I guess 7,000 years isn't long, though (in geological terms). cluth 11:08, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
llao rock is a dacite flow down a glacial valley, not a pyroclastic flow. Source: http://www.nps.gov/archive/crla/notes/vol10-3b.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.248.3.2 ( talk) 00:13, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
I'm not so sure about the statement that the breach of the rim will cause massive flooding. Unless the rate of erosion, once the rim is breached, is comparable to the rate of water release, the water level will simply be constrained by the low point in the rim. Verisimilus T 13:34, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
What is the status of this volcano - extinct, dormant or active? In the "future activity" section, it says "Assuming no large eruptions destroy it first" which would suggest it's either dormant or active, but it isn't stated which explictly.
Shouldn't there be an entry for the status in the infobox? Seems like a pretty basic (and important) bit of information. 86.147.160.133 ( talk) 09:51, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Okay but what's the safety conditions of residents around the Volcano, I do understand that Vulcanologists don't like the term but shouldn't they be an estimated time of possible eruptions? Wiki talker ( talk) 14:35, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
Not anything big, but while reviewing the Mount Mazama article, it seemed a little odd that the majority of the article deals with scientific & historical information on the volcano; Physical geography, Ecology, Native History, Eruptive history, Geology. Then the small very last section is "Recreation". For such a well written "hard science" article, "recreation" really does not seem to fit. Much of the same recreation information can be found at both the Crater Lake National Park and the Crater Lake articles which are linked to from here. One would expect this in articles on a park or lake, the inclusion in an article made to feature the dramatic explosion of a large shield volcano almost 8,000 years ago and it's historical effects on nature, geology and the indigenous peoples? Seemed out of place. Not too relevant, but worth noting that people probably don't look up Mount Mazama to find encyclopedic information on recreation. It's be similar to reading about the Missoula Floods hoping to find information on eastern Washington fishing. 😉 Crater Lake and the park are what people would be searching.
But @ Ian Rose: raises an interesting point when he stated, "Given this is featured article and community review didn't appear to have an issue with this section, suggest discussing on talk page to find consensus for your change". I had missed the featured article star. I would certainly feel that if others felt the section fits, it could remain. My feeling is that it makes for a clearer, less cluttered, concise article if it sticks to way it was originally created back in 2012, and continued for many years, without the inclusion of less relevant information already viewable in other articles.
Thanks for your time & consideration. → 72.234.220.38 ( talk) 18:19, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
So the intro has said "Indigenous populations have inhabited the area around Mazama and Crater Lake for at least 10,000 years, and..." for more than a year, and it is that text which was promoted to a Featured Article. I reverted once to the stable version, but Kevin McE has edit warred back to the new phrasing.
The stable version's phrasing is consistent with the cited sources. The first one cited in the Human history has an "Original Visitors" section that doesn't say "A human connection with this area has been traced back to before the cataclysmic eruption of Mount Mazama.". What it says is, "A Native American connection with this area has been traced back to before the cataclysmic eruption of Mount Mazama." The next source says "Fiery avalanches sometimes interrupted the lives of Native Americans near Mount Mazama -- (pre-Crater Lake volcano) -- more than 6,000 years ago." It does not say "Fiery avalanches sometimes interrupted the lives of humans near Mount Mazama -- (pre-Crater Lake volcano) -- more than 6,000 years ago." It's why the body of the article says "Native American people have lived in the area near Mazama for at least 10,000 years."
Changing the intro to say "Humans have inhabited the area around Mazama and Crater Lake for at least 10,000 years" with the edit summary "to suggest that it needs to be specified that these are of any given race is to betray an assumption that "humans" will be presumed to be of white European heritage. I think we should assume better of our readers" is a creative and novel approach that isn't found in sources or in the contents of the article. Both the sources and the article take the position that it the first inhabitants need to be explicitly called out as Native Americans or indigenous people, rather than blandly lumping them in with all humans as if the distinction is of little importance. The earlier edit summary is facetious and obtuse: "I'm guessing indigenous populations of other species have been there a lot longer". Nobody reads "indigenous populations" as implying animals and plants. If that were the only issue, then why not change it to "indigenous people"? Regardless, with a Featured Article that has been stable for since May 2018, we should keep it as it was until consensus has been established. -- Dennis Bratland ( talk) 20:56, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
"This is a case of referring to Native Americans in a manner in which we would not refer to others." Yes. Yes it is. Deviating from what our sources say is original thought.
"That is discriminatory, unnecessary, and unencyclopaedic." In your humble opinion. Wikipedia does not correct reliable sources. We respect them. If you think the sources are wrong, you have to take it up with them. Perhaps this change would right a great wrong. But, "on Wikipedia, you'll have to wait until it's been reported in mainstream media or published in books from reputable publishing houses."
The reason for respecting the stable version of an article is that it very likely represents the preference of many editors. Many have made changes, and yet your diff shows us that in all that time, this wording in the intro was not changed. I made a slight change to accommodate your worry that readers -- whom you say are knowledgeable about history and should be given credit for being intelligent -- will be unintelligent enough to think that "indigenous population" could refer to animals. Even though the same sentence refers to "local folklore", which is something animals and plants do not have. We should probably stick with "indigenous populations", since it's very clear from context and common sense.
So it bothers you that native peoples in North America are described differently than Zimbabwe or Japan. We have to ask why you're the only one who is bothered. Why none of the other editors who have worked on this? But more importantly, why none of the sources? If you can show there are any sources who agree with your opinions, and that in fact significant (not fringe) experts agree that the other sources are wrong to highlight indigenous people rather than just people, then I would agree that due weight requires covering both points of view or at least writing in a way that doesn't favor one over the other. I will change my mind if shown sources that support this change. But what I see in the sources is a non-controversy. All the sources are in agreement, so there's no two points of view to balance. We should take a tone and general word choice that is consistent with reliable sources, until we are shown citations that there is any significant dissent. -- Dennis Bratland ( talk) 01:17, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
How does a solid mass collapse, unless it's into something like a void beneath? If a void, how could it possibly form (do magma chambers somehow drain themselves away?) 2.96.206.125 ( talk) 11:47, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Mount Mazama article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | Mount Mazama is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on September 27, 2019. | |||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Featured article |
![]() | This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
Anyone have an approximate timeframe for the events described in the Next Phase? section (and that ? needs to be removed, so I may edit that to something else)? Given the thickness of the walls of the crater and the slowness (in human terms) of geological processes, I'd assume this is several million years in the future, as are any potential future eruptions. I just want to clarify for the geologically-challenged that their hotel reservations for next summer aren't in danger.
I was surprised to learn there is still volcanic activity. I would have assumed that the massiveness of the explosion had completely emptied Mazama's magma chamber, and that by now any magma plumes or subduction zones or whatever had moved sufficiently to make Mazama an extinct volcano, but I'm not a vulcanologist--I just took a geology class in college. I guess 7,000 years isn't long, though (in geological terms). cluth 11:08, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
llao rock is a dacite flow down a glacial valley, not a pyroclastic flow. Source: http://www.nps.gov/archive/crla/notes/vol10-3b.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.248.3.2 ( talk) 00:13, 21 April 2011 (UTC)
I'm not so sure about the statement that the breach of the rim will cause massive flooding. Unless the rate of erosion, once the rim is breached, is comparable to the rate of water release, the water level will simply be constrained by the low point in the rim. Verisimilus T 13:34, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
What is the status of this volcano - extinct, dormant or active? In the "future activity" section, it says "Assuming no large eruptions destroy it first" which would suggest it's either dormant or active, but it isn't stated which explictly.
Shouldn't there be an entry for the status in the infobox? Seems like a pretty basic (and important) bit of information. 86.147.160.133 ( talk) 09:51, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
Okay but what's the safety conditions of residents around the Volcano, I do understand that Vulcanologists don't like the term but shouldn't they be an estimated time of possible eruptions? Wiki talker ( talk) 14:35, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
Not anything big, but while reviewing the Mount Mazama article, it seemed a little odd that the majority of the article deals with scientific & historical information on the volcano; Physical geography, Ecology, Native History, Eruptive history, Geology. Then the small very last section is "Recreation". For such a well written "hard science" article, "recreation" really does not seem to fit. Much of the same recreation information can be found at both the Crater Lake National Park and the Crater Lake articles which are linked to from here. One would expect this in articles on a park or lake, the inclusion in an article made to feature the dramatic explosion of a large shield volcano almost 8,000 years ago and it's historical effects on nature, geology and the indigenous peoples? Seemed out of place. Not too relevant, but worth noting that people probably don't look up Mount Mazama to find encyclopedic information on recreation. It's be similar to reading about the Missoula Floods hoping to find information on eastern Washington fishing. 😉 Crater Lake and the park are what people would be searching.
But @ Ian Rose: raises an interesting point when he stated, "Given this is featured article and community review didn't appear to have an issue with this section, suggest discussing on talk page to find consensus for your change". I had missed the featured article star. I would certainly feel that if others felt the section fits, it could remain. My feeling is that it makes for a clearer, less cluttered, concise article if it sticks to way it was originally created back in 2012, and continued for many years, without the inclusion of less relevant information already viewable in other articles.
Thanks for your time & consideration. → 72.234.220.38 ( talk) 18:19, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
So the intro has said "Indigenous populations have inhabited the area around Mazama and Crater Lake for at least 10,000 years, and..." for more than a year, and it is that text which was promoted to a Featured Article. I reverted once to the stable version, but Kevin McE has edit warred back to the new phrasing.
The stable version's phrasing is consistent with the cited sources. The first one cited in the Human history has an "Original Visitors" section that doesn't say "A human connection with this area has been traced back to before the cataclysmic eruption of Mount Mazama.". What it says is, "A Native American connection with this area has been traced back to before the cataclysmic eruption of Mount Mazama." The next source says "Fiery avalanches sometimes interrupted the lives of Native Americans near Mount Mazama -- (pre-Crater Lake volcano) -- more than 6,000 years ago." It does not say "Fiery avalanches sometimes interrupted the lives of humans near Mount Mazama -- (pre-Crater Lake volcano) -- more than 6,000 years ago." It's why the body of the article says "Native American people have lived in the area near Mazama for at least 10,000 years."
Changing the intro to say "Humans have inhabited the area around Mazama and Crater Lake for at least 10,000 years" with the edit summary "to suggest that it needs to be specified that these are of any given race is to betray an assumption that "humans" will be presumed to be of white European heritage. I think we should assume better of our readers" is a creative and novel approach that isn't found in sources or in the contents of the article. Both the sources and the article take the position that it the first inhabitants need to be explicitly called out as Native Americans or indigenous people, rather than blandly lumping them in with all humans as if the distinction is of little importance. The earlier edit summary is facetious and obtuse: "I'm guessing indigenous populations of other species have been there a lot longer". Nobody reads "indigenous populations" as implying animals and plants. If that were the only issue, then why not change it to "indigenous people"? Regardless, with a Featured Article that has been stable for since May 2018, we should keep it as it was until consensus has been established. -- Dennis Bratland ( talk) 20:56, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
"This is a case of referring to Native Americans in a manner in which we would not refer to others." Yes. Yes it is. Deviating from what our sources say is original thought.
"That is discriminatory, unnecessary, and unencyclopaedic." In your humble opinion. Wikipedia does not correct reliable sources. We respect them. If you think the sources are wrong, you have to take it up with them. Perhaps this change would right a great wrong. But, "on Wikipedia, you'll have to wait until it's been reported in mainstream media or published in books from reputable publishing houses."
The reason for respecting the stable version of an article is that it very likely represents the preference of many editors. Many have made changes, and yet your diff shows us that in all that time, this wording in the intro was not changed. I made a slight change to accommodate your worry that readers -- whom you say are knowledgeable about history and should be given credit for being intelligent -- will be unintelligent enough to think that "indigenous population" could refer to animals. Even though the same sentence refers to "local folklore", which is something animals and plants do not have. We should probably stick with "indigenous populations", since it's very clear from context and common sense.
So it bothers you that native peoples in North America are described differently than Zimbabwe or Japan. We have to ask why you're the only one who is bothered. Why none of the other editors who have worked on this? But more importantly, why none of the sources? If you can show there are any sources who agree with your opinions, and that in fact significant (not fringe) experts agree that the other sources are wrong to highlight indigenous people rather than just people, then I would agree that due weight requires covering both points of view or at least writing in a way that doesn't favor one over the other. I will change my mind if shown sources that support this change. But what I see in the sources is a non-controversy. All the sources are in agreement, so there's no two points of view to balance. We should take a tone and general word choice that is consistent with reliable sources, until we are shown citations that there is any significant dissent. -- Dennis Bratland ( talk) 01:17, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
How does a solid mass collapse, unless it's into something like a void beneath? If a void, how could it possibly form (do magma chambers somehow drain themselves away?) 2.96.206.125 ( talk) 11:47, 4 March 2023 (UTC)